Skip to main content

FM
Former Member

Russia's Sergei Lavrov: Ukraine getting 'out of control'

 

Protesters continued to maintain a presence at the road leading to the Ukrainian parliament after a second night of clashes

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has warned that protests in Ukraine are "getting out of control".

He described violent clashes between anti-government protesters and police as "scary" and accused EU politicians of stirring up the situation.

Tuesday saw an uneasy standoff on the street of the capital after a second consecutive night of clashes.

Young men threw fireworks and petrol bombs at police guarding the road leading up to the Ukrainian parliament.

Police beat some protesters.

Protesters have been camped out in Kiev since late November, angered by the government's turn to Moscow and its rejection of a planned treaty with the EU.

New anti-protest laws, hastily passed by parliament last week, will come into force on Wednesday.

Analysis

It is vital to note that this battle, though restricted at the moment, may only be the beginning.

The conflict could move beyond its isolated location, especially if authorities decide to crack down on the movement, as they now are threatening to do.

With the clashes - which represent not only an escalation in the protest movement, but are also the worst in Ukraine's post-Soviet history - the country's political deadlock has moved even further into uncharted waters.

Mr Lavrov's warning came after Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Monday said the violence threatened the country's stability.

'Indecent'

"Members of several European governments rushed to the Maidan without any invitation and took part in anti-government demonstrations," Mr Lavrov said, referring to the square in which protesters have been encamped.

"This is simply indecent."

He did not name names, but EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and the then German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle visited the protesters in December.

Warning that the "situation is getting out of control", Mr Lavrov added: "We have information that much of this is being stimulated from abroad," and condemned the violence as a "complete violation of European standards of behaviour".

Clashes continued throughout Monday night, with police using tear gas and stun grenades against several hundred young men who ranged against them. At times, thousands of people cheered from the sidelines.

An elderly woman walks away from police officers as they block a street during unrest in central Kiev, Ukraine, on Tuesday 21 January 2014 There was a lull in the violence on Tuesday morning but fears the violence could erupt anew later in the day
Burned out bus in Kiev [21 Jan 2014) A charred bus in the city centre was an indication of the unrest of the previous nights

Eighty police have been admitted to hospital following the recent clashes, says Ukraine's interior ministry.

It says 32 protesters have been arrested, of whom 13 could face up to 15 years in jail for creating "mass disturbances", local media reported.

On Tuesday morning, lines of riot police still held the road leading up to parliament, behind burnt-out buses and barricades, reports the BBC's Daniel Sandford in Kiev.

Some people could be seen cleaning up the protest area, while others shouted and banged metal canisters.

'Paid thugs'

The violence has been restricted to a small area around Hrushevskyy Street, close to the main protest encampment at Maidan (or Independence Square), with most of the rest of the city functioning normally, say correspondents.

β€œStart Quote

We weren't told anything about what to do. We stood by the metro and waited. They gave us hammers - that's all”

Nikolai Ignatenko Paid 'provocateur'

People standing near the fighting reported receiving a text message shortly after midnight on Tuesday, which said: "Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a unsanctioned rally."

Mobile phone operator KievStar denied sending the messages and it is unclear who did.

Meanwhile, peaceful protesters have blamed a little-known far-right group, Right Sector, for carrying out the violence.

Former boxing champion and opposition figure Vitali Klitschko has also accused the government of paying thugs nicknamed "titushki" to delegitimise the protests and create a pretext for the imposition of a state of emergency.

 

Russia's foreign minister: Moscow does not want to "put oil on the fire"

BBC Russian spoke to several suspected "titushki" detained by the opposition activists.

One, a student called Nikolai Ignatenko, said: "We weren't told anything about what to do. We stood by the metro and waited. They gave us hammers - that's all".

Artyom Nemchenko, a college student, said he had done it for money after seeing an offer online, and that they had been instructed to "stir up trouble".

The new protest laws prescribe jail terms for anyone blockading public buildings, and ban the wearing of masks or helmets at demonstrations.

They also outlaw unauthorised tents in public areas.

Talks mooted between President Yanukovych and opposition leaders failed to materialise; instead their deputies met on Monday.

Lesya Orobets, an MP for the Fatherland opposition party, said the talks "showed almost no result", and called for a high-ranking foreign mediator to oversee the talks.

Protesters clad in improvised protective gear prepare for a clash with police in central Kiev, Ukraine, late on Monday 20 January 2014 Protesters on Monday night put together their own improvised armoured outfits in order to confront police
Anti-government protesters build a catapult to throw stones during clashes with police in Kiev, Ukraine, on Monday 20 January 2014 A makeshift catapult built by protesters was later dismantled by police
 A protester catches fire during clashes with police in Kiev on Monday The protesters are demanding the resignation of President Yanukovych and early elections
Map

More on This Story

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Chief:

Like Russia want to take back what they lost . 

In this modern age, Russia cannot and will not annex the Ukraine as it did in the past.

But Russia's domestic and foreign policy interests necessitate a friendly Ukraine.

Endowed with rich and expansive agricultural land, Ukraine is the world's third largest exporter of wheat.

It is economical for Russia to import wheat and other commodities from its neighbour. That would not be possible if Ukraine joins the European Union and exports its products there instead.

I visited a state farm outside Odessa in the Ukraine 30 years ago. I picked and tasted grapes from a large vineyard there. The Ukrainian wine industry is one of the world's largest.

The current turmoil on the streets of Kiev is actually a battle to determine whether Ukraine will stay close to Russia or move towards the EU.

FM
Originally Posted by Mars:

Russia also wants to maintain its control over Ukraine because it has one of its largest naval bases in Ukraine in the Black Sea port city of Sevastopol. It is a warm water port which means that it never freezes and it also gives Russia access to the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. 

Speaking of Sevastopol, Mars, there are two cannons in the forecourt of Parliament Building in Guyana.

Britain gifted them to her Guyanese subjects many years before independence in 1966.

Russia had used those same cannons in the decisive battle of Sevastopol which it lost to Britain during the Crimean War (1853 - 1856).

Britain seized the cannons as war trophies.

So, Guyana has a long connection with the Ukraine.

Parliament building | Georgetown Guyana

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by Mars:

Russia also wants to maintain its control over Ukraine because it has one of its largest naval bases in Ukraine in the Black Sea port city of Sevastopol. It is a warm water port which means that it never freezes and it also gives Russia access to the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. 

Speaking of Sevastopol, Mars, there are two cannons in the forecourt of Parliament Building in Guyana.

Britain gifted them to her Guyanese subjects many years before independence in 1966.

Russia had used those same cannons in the decisive battle of Sevastopol which it lost to Britain during the Crimean War (1853 - 1856).

Britain seized the cannons as war trophies.

So, Guyana has a long connection with the Ukraine.

Parliament building | Georgetown Guyana

Thanks for that history lesson Gilbakka. I saw those cannons many times but never knew their origin. 

Mars

Gorbachev Calls on Obama And Putin to Stop Violence in Ukraine

 

 

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on Thursday called for the leaders of the United States and Russia to prevent further escalation of a violent standoff between demonstrators and police in Ukraine's capital, Kiev.

"I ask you to find a way to take a resolute step in helping Ukraine return to a peaceful path of development," Gorbachev said in a letter to Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin published on his website, Gorby.ru.

"We must not allow Ukrainians to fight Ukrainians," he said.

At least three demonstrators have died during rallies that began on Sunday in protest of hastily passed legislation curtailing the freedom of assembly in Ukraine.

Police have been accused of using excessive force, while rioters have been seen throwing flaming Molotov cocktails at police lines.

Gorbachev wrote that "now is not the time to investigate" the allegations both sides are making because doing so would "only complicate the situation."

He said the conflict in Ukraine is particularly hard on Russians, noting that many families have relatives from both countries. Both his late wife and mother were Ukrainian.

 
FM

Ukraine: 25 killed, 241 injured in Kiev clashes

Anti-government protesters clash with the police during their storming of Independence Square in Kiev on Tuesday, Feb. 18.

AP 7 hr ago By Maria Danilova of Associated Press

KIEV, Ukraine β€” As thick black smoke rose from the barricades encircling the protest camp in central Kiev on Wednesday, the Ukrainian president blamed opposition leaders for the deadly violence that erupted between riot police and protesters in the capital in which at least 25 people died and 241 were injured.

At least 25 killed in Ukraine protests

At least 25 killed in Ukraine protests
6 hr ago 1:08 Views: 511 AP Online Video

The violence on Tuesday was the worst in nearly three months of anti-government protests that have paralyzed Ukraine's capital in a struggle over the identity of a nation divided in loyalties between Russia and the West, and the worst in the country's post-Soviet history.

Amid cries of "Glory to Ukraine!" and with flaming tires lighting up the night sky, thousands of riot police armed with stun grenades and water cannons attacked the sprawling protest camp in the center of Kiev. With the boom of exploding stun grenades and fireworks nearly drowning out his words at times, opposition leader Vitali Klitschko urged overnight the 20,000 protesters to defend the camp on Independence Square that has been the heart of the protests.

 

"We will not go anywhere from here," Klitschko, a former heavyweight boxing champion, told the crowd, speaking from a stage in the square as tents and tires burned around him, releasing huge plumes of smoke. "This is an island of freedom and we will defend it," he said.

Early on Wednesday, many were still heeding his call.

Photos: Protesters, police clash in Ukraine

 

"I am not going to sit and wait while they kill me," said 32-year-old Anton Rybkovich. "I'm going to attack. The more force the government uses, the more harsh our response will be."

 

About 10,000 people remained on the square as piles of rubber tires continued to burn. A large building that the protesters had used as a headquarters caught fire and had been abandoned during the night, as police used loudspeakers to urge women and children to leave the square because an "anti-terrorist" operation was under way.

 

President Viktor Yanukovych said that opposition leaders "crossed a line when they called people to arms."

 

"I again call on the leaders of the opposition ... to draw a boundary between themselves and radical forces which are provoking bloodshed and clashes with the security services," the president said in a statement. "If they don't want to leave (the square) β€” they should acknowledge that they are supporting radicals. Then the conversation with them will already be of a different kind."

His defiant tone left few with hope of compromise after a night of violence, the worst in the country's post-Soviet history.

As the street battles grew to a fever pitch late on Tuesday, the protesters appeared to sense that Ukraine's political standoff was reaching a critical turning point. Waving Ukrainian and opposition party flags, they shouted "Glory to Ukraine!" and sang the Ukrainian national anthem.

Ukraine: 25 killed, 241 injured in Kiev clashes: Map locates sites of protest and violence in the Ukraine.Reuters

Shortly before midnight, Klitschko headed to Yanukovych's office to try to resolve the crisis. He returned to the square early Wednesday without reaching any agreement on ending the violence. Klitschko told reporters that he had asked the president to stop the police action to clear the square and prevent further deaths, but Yanukovych's only proposal was that the demonstrators have to go home and stop the protests.

"I am very unhappy because there was no discussion," Klitschko said. "They don't want to listen."

 

Klitschko urged the protesters and police to stop the escalation of violence, and said opposition leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk was trying to arrange for more negotiations with Yanukovych later Wednesday, although Yanukovych's statement made no mention of an imminent meeting with opposition leaders.

 

The violence began Tuesday when protesters attacked police lines and set fires outside parliament, accusing Yanukovych of once again ignoring their demands. Parliament, dominated by his supporters, was stalling on taking up a constitutional reform to limit presidential powers.

 

Tensions had soared after Russia said Monday that it was ready to resume providing the loans that Yanukovych's government needs to keep Ukraine's ailing economy afloat. This raised fears among the opposition that Yanukovych had made a deal with Moscow to stand firm against the protesters and would choose a Russian-leaning loyalist to be his new prime minister.

The protests began in late November after Yanukovych turned away from a long-anticipated deal with the European Union in exchange for a $15 billion bailout from Russia. The political maneuvering continued, however, with both Moscow and the West eager to gain influence over this former Soviet republic.

 

Until Monday, the government and the opposition had appeared to be making some progress toward resolving the political crisis peacefully. In exchange for the release of scores of jailed activists, protesters on Sunday vacated a government building that they had occupied since Dec. 1.

Russia also may have wanted to see Kiev remain calm through the Winter Olympics in Sochi, so as not to distract from President Vladimir Putin's games. But after the outburst of violence against riot police, Yanukovych's government may have felt it had no choice but to try to restore order.

While Kiev and western Ukraine have risen up against Yanukovych, he remains popular in the Russian-speaking eastern and southern regions, where economic and cultural ties with Russia are strong.

 

As darkness fell Tuesday, law enforcement agencies vowed to bring order to the streets and they shut down subway stations in the center of the capital. In Independence Square, Orthodox priests prayed for peace.

At least 9 die in worst day of Ukraine protestsReuters: Konstantin Chernichkin

Protesters throw stones during clashes with police in Kiev on Tuesday, Feb. 18.

 

"We see that this regime again has begun shooting people; they want to sink Ukraine in blood. We will not give in to a single provocation," Yatsenyuk told the protesters. "We will not take one step back from this square. We have nowhere to retreat to. Ukraine is behind us, Ukraine's future is behind us."

 

As angry protesters outside parliament hurled stones at police and set trucks blocking their way on fire, riot police retaliated with stun grenades and fired what appeared to be small metal balls, as smoke from burning tires and vehicles billowed over Kiev.

 

The coordinator for the opposition's medical response team, Oleh Musiy, said more than 400 protesters were injured. He also claimed that about 20 had died, but this could not independently be confirmed.

 

One of the civilians was found dead after protesters stormed the office of the president's Party of Regions. Police pushed them away, but when firefighters arrived to put out a fire, they discovered the body of an office employee, Kiev's emergency services said.

 

Justice Minister Olena Lukash, a close Yanukovych aide, accused the opposition of violating earlier agreements with the government and blamed protest leaders for the violence.

 

In Washington, Vice President Joe Biden expressed his "grave concern" in telephone call to Yanukovych, urging him to pull back government forces and exercise maximum restraint. The White House said Biden also called on Ukraine's government to address the protesters' "legitimate grievances" and put forward proposals for political reform.

 

Earlier, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry urged both sides to end the violence, halt their ultimatums and hold high-level talks.

Raw: Deadly Clashes in Ukraine, Deadline Set

Raw: Deadly Clashes in Ukraine, Deadline Set
23 hr ago 1:05 Views: 5k AP Online Video

 

U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey R. Payatt also threatened both sides with sanctions. "We believe Ukraine's crisis can still be solved via dialogue, but those on both sides who fuel violence will open themselves to sanctions," Payatt said on Twitter.

 

Germany has refused to back Washington's calls for sanctions against Ukraine's government to pressure it into accepting opposition demands for reforms.

 

But when central Kiev exploded in violence Tuesday, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said Ukrainian security forces have a "particular responsibility" to de-escalate the situation, adding that the EU might resort to unspecified sanctions against individuals. "Whoever is responsible for decisions that lead to bloodshed in the center of Kiev or elsewhere in Ukraine will need to consider that Europe's previous reluctance for personal sanctions must be rethought," he said.

The Russian Foreign Ministry blamed the West for the escalation of the violence and called on the opposition to work with the government to find a way out of the crisis.

 

"What is happening is a direct result of the conniving politics of Western politicians and European bodies," the ministry said in a statement.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon expressed shock at the escalating and "unacceptable" violence and called for "the immediate renewal of genuine dialogue leading to rapid results," U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky said. "Preventing further instability and bloodshed is a paramount priority."

FM

~~~~~~~~

 "We will not go anywhere from here," Klitschko, a former heavyweight boxing champion, told the crowd, speaking from a stage in the square as tents and tires burned around him, releasing huge plumes of smoke. "This is an island of freedom and we will defend it," he said.~~~

 

 

klitchiko still think he in the boxing ring.

 

FM

Ukraine: Interim leader Turchynov stresses "European choice"

 

Oleksandr Turchinov: "This fight gave us unity and strength of a modern political nation"


 

Ukraine's new interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has said the country will focus on closer integration with the EU.

Mr Turchynov was appointed following the dismissal of President Viktor Yanukovych by MPs on Saturday.

Mr Yanukovych's rejection of an EU-Ukraine trade pact triggered the protests that toppled him.

 

The interim president also said he was "ready for dialogue" with Russia, which has backed Mr Yanukovych.

 

"We have to return to the family of European countries," Mr Turchynov said in a televised address, hours after his appointment by MPs.


Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov

  • Born in Dnipropetrovsk, eastern Ukraine, March 1964
  • Trained as metallurgist and economist
  • 1980s - Local communist Komsomol youth leader
  • 1993 - Economic adviser to ex-President Leonid Kuchma
  • 1998-2007 - Elected to parliament
  • 1999 - Deputy leader of Yulia Tymoshenko's Fatherland party
  • 2004 - Campaigner in Orange Revolution
  • 2005 - Head of Ukraine Security Service (SBU)
  • 2007-2010 - Deputy PM
  • February 2014 - Parliament speaker, then acting president

European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton has announced she is visiting Kiev on Monday to discuss EU support "for a lasting solution to the political crisis and measures to stabilise the economic situation".

Mr Turchynov said he wanted relations with Russia to be "on a new, fair, equal and neighbourly basis, acknowledging and taking into account Ukraine's European choice".

 

Russia has expressed its disapproval of events in Kiev, with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov saying the opposition "had in effect seized power in Kiev, refused to disarm and continued to place its bets on violence".

Russia has recalled its ambassador to Kiev for consultations.

The US has said parliament's actions were legitimate and has warned Russia against military intervention.

'Modern country'

 

Mr Turchynov took charge on Sunday and told MPs they had until Tuesday to form a new unity government.

 

Thousands of opposition supporters remain in Kiev's Independence Square, heeding opposition calls not to disperse.

Anti-government demonstrators guard government building near Independence Square Anti-Yanukovych protesters say they want Ukraine to move closer towards the EU
People light candles at a memorial for anti-government protesters killed in clashes with police in Independence Square on February 23, 2014 in Kiev, Ukraine. People have been lighting candles in memory of protesters killed in clashes with police
Ukrainian opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko [C) meets with US ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt (L) and head of the EU delegation to Ukraine Jan Tombinski in Kiev, on 23 February 2014. Tymoshenko met the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, and EU envoy Jan Tombinski on Sunday

 

The health ministry says 88 people, mostly anti-Yanukovych protesters, are now known to have been killed in clashes that took place earlier this week.

 

In an address on Saturday, Mr Yanukovych refused to stand down. He is last thought to have been in the eastern city of Kharkiv after travelling there late on Friday night.

 

Media reports have quoted Ukrainian officials as saying he was stopped by border police while attempting to flee to Russia.

 

MPs from Mr Yanukovych's Party of Regions now appear to be disowning him, having issued a statement criticising him to Interfax-Ukraine.

 

Ukrainians in Kiev appear broadly optimistic about the future

Meanwhile, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who was freed from detention on Saturday, has ruled out becoming prime minister again.

Her release was one of the conditions of the EU-Ukraine trade pact that Mr Yanukovych rejected last year.

 

Former world champion boxer Vitaly Klitschko suggested to the BBC that he may make a bid for the presidency in elections scheduled for 25 May.

"I want to make Ukraine a modern European country," he said. "If I can do that through the president's position, I will do my best."

 

Unverified CCTV appeared to show Viktor Yanukovych fleeing Kiev

In other decisions on Sunday:

  • Foreign Minister Leonid Kozhara and Education Minister Dmytro Tabachnyk were dismissed
  • Arrest warrants were issued for former Incomes Minister Oleksandr Klimenko and former Prosecutor-General Viktor Pshonka
  • Parliament lowered the official status of the Russian language by cancelling a law brought in by Mr Yanukovych
  • Parliament also voted to seize Mr Yanukovych's luxury estate near Kiev, which protesters entered on Saturday

Financial support

Kiev and Donetsk

Ukraine's new government may have a short time to win public support.

Many on Independence Square are sceptical of Ukraine's entire political class, Ms Tymoshenko included, and may start searching soon for an entirely new set of leaders.

 


Donetsk is Mr Yanukovych's home region and his support base, close to the border with Russia. It's Ukraine's industrial heartland, a mining centre and almost unanimously Russian-speaking.

 

A few hundred pro-Yanukovych protesters gathered on the main square here. They called the anti-government demonstrators "fascists" and chanted pro-Russian slogans. A group surged towards the other side of the square, where a handful of anti-Yanukovych demonstrators were gathered. Police intervened. If this one city is so divided, just imagine the splits across the entire country.

 

Also on Sunday, US National Security Adviser Susan Rice warned Russia it would be a "grave mistake" to intervene militarily.

Russia and the US have been on opposite sides during the Ukraine crisis, with the US, along with the EU, backing the opposition.

 

Earlier, German Chancellor Angela Merkel was reported to have called Ms Tymoshenko and urged her to work for unity.

 

Mrs Merkel also called Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday to discuss the crisis; both agreed that the country's "territorial integrity must be safeguarded", her spokesman said.

 

There has been a fear that the crisis may exacerbate divisions between the Russian-leaning east of the country and the more pro-EU west.

Germany is trying to act as a broker in the conflict and to assuage Russian fears that it will be threatened if Ukraine moves closer to the European Union, the BBC's Stephen Evans reports from Berlin.

 

Some German government MPs have called for swift financial aid to Ukraine, possibly involving the International Monetary Fund, our correspondent reports.

 

Moscow recently agreed to provide $15bn (Β£9bn; 11bn euros) to support the Ukrainian government. If Russia withdrew that offer, the debate in Berlin is whether the European Union could replace the Russian money and how that might affect relations with Moscow, he adds.

 

Earlier, a US official said US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew had discussed Ukraine with Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov on the sidelines of the G20 meeting in Sydney.

 

Mr Siluanov reportedly left open the question of whether Russia will pay the next instalment of financial help for Ukraine, worth $2bn.

Are you in the area? What is your reaction to the recent events? Email us at HaveYourSay@bbc.co.uk adding 'Ukraine' in the heading.

FM

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

The new government is a clone of the old since they are all of the same cookie cutter factory of mediocre politicians. I notice they have Yulia Tymoshenko in the lime light again and that would be as if we remove the Ramotar and replace him with jagdeo. We have to wait until the new elections to see changes and most of these critters will have re implant themselves.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

The new government is a clone of the old since they are all of the same cookie cutter factory of mediocre politicians. I notice they have Yulia Tymoshenko in the lime light again and that would be as if we remove the Ramotar and replace him with jagdeo. We have to wait until the new elections to see changes and most of these critters will have re implant themselves.

the people speak and they will be change if not the people have the courage and the will to act again unlike guyana where the people turn sheep

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

The new government is a clone of the old since they are all of the same cookie cutter factory of mediocre politicians. I notice they have Yulia Tymoshenko in the lime light again and that would be as if we remove the Ramotar and replace him with jagdeo. We have to wait until the new elections to see changes and most of these critters will have re implant themselves.

the people speak and they will be change if not the people have the courage and the will to act again unlike guyana where the people turn sheep

They did indeed have the courage to stand up to a corrupt regime and on less standing than we already have with the PPP.

 

They should take it as a warning. A government is as legitimate as their people decides it is.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

The new government is a clone of the old since they are all of the same cookie cutter factory of mediocre politicians. I notice they have Yulia Tymoshenko in the lime light again and that would be as if we remove the Ramotar and replace him with jagdeo. We have to wait until the new elections to see changes and most of these critters will have re implant themselves.

the people speak and they will be change if not the people have the courage and the will to act again unlike guyana where the people turn sheep

They did indeed have the courage to stand up to a corrupt regime and on less standing than we already have with the PPP.

 

They should take it as a warning. A government is as legitimate as their people decides it is.

these people will force their government to be honest they have taste the freedom of democracy 

FM
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
 
Originally Posted by warrior:

these people will force their government to be honest they have taste the freedom of democracy 

India is the world's largest democracy. But it is also corrupt as hell. The people are not forcing their government to be honest. Indians never do. Just look at the Indians in Guyana.

what you saying might make sense if it counts but i will not only blame the Indians here i will say the blacks in guyana is cowards,when people is scare to stand up for their rights let call them sheep 

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
 
Originally Posted by warrior:

these people will force their government to be honest they have taste the freedom of democracy 

India is the world's largest democracy. But it is also corrupt as hell. The people are not forcing their government to be honest. Indians never do. Just look at the Indians in Guyana.

what you saying might make sense if it counts but i will not only blame the Indians here i will say the blacks in guyana is cowards,when people is scare to stand up for their rights let call them sheep 

The blacks in Linden tried to stand up for their rights, but the PPP sent in snipers to gun down unarmed civilians. Then the PPP made up an investigating committee that declared that the no PPP assassin was involved.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Danyael:

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

 

The leaf of a tree cannot fall without the permission of Almighty God.

So continue your foolishness!!

Imagine that....but then again your delusions are your own. God minding leaves!!!!!

FM
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
 
Originally Posted by warrior:

these people will force their government to be honest they have taste the freedom of democracy 

India is the world's largest democracy. But it is also corrupt as hell. The people are not forcing their government to be honest. Indians never do. Just look at the Indians in Guyana.

what you saying might make sense if it counts but i will not only blame the Indians here i will say the blacks in guyana is cowards,when people is scare to stand up for their rights let call them sheep 

The blacks in Linden tried to stand up for their rights, but the PPP sent in snipers to gun down unarmed civilians. Then the PPP made up an investigating committee that declared that the no PPP assassin was involved.

a couple of shot is fire two people get kill and the blacks run and hide under their beds what do you have to do to get these people to fight back 

FM
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Danyael:

Allah aind got shi.t to do with anything. The corner drunk can divise the statement that things come and go. I have a dozen of those sayings in my head from every conceivable source.

 

 

The leaf of a tree cannot fall without the permission of Almighty God.

So continue your foolishness!!

Well said Chief.

FM
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
 
Originally Posted by warrior:

these people will force their government to be honest they have taste the freedom of democracy 

India is the world's largest democracy. But it is also corrupt as hell. The people are not forcing their government to be honest. Indians never do. Just look at the Indians in Guyana.

what you saying might make sense if it counts but i will not only blame the Indians here i will say the blacks in guyana is cowards,when people is scare to stand up for their rights let call them sheep 

The blacks in Linden tried to stand up for their rights, but the PPP sent in snipers to gun down unarmed civilians. Then the PPP made up an investigating committee that declared that the no PPP assassin was involved.

The Jamaican fellow who reprimanded Nigel was a member of the PPP committee?

FM

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×