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Mahatma Gandhi has been variously described as an anti-colonial protester, a religious thinker, a pragmatist, a radical who used non-violence effectively to fight for causes, a canny politician and a whimsical Hindu patriarch.

But was India's greatest leader also a racist?

The authors of a controversial new book on Gandhi's life and work in South Africa certainly believe so. South African academics Ashwin Desai and Goolam Vahed spent seven years exploring the complex story of a man who lived in their country for more than two decades - 1893 to 1914 - and campaigned for the rights of Indian people there.

In The South African Gandhi: Stretcher-Bearer of Empire, Desai and Vahed write that during his stay in Africa, Gandhi kept the Indian struggle "separate from that of Africans and coloureds even though the latter were also denied political rights on the basis of colour and could also lay claim to being British subjects".

They write that Gandhi's political strategies - fighting to repeal unjust laws or freedom of movement or trade - carved out an exclusivist Indian identity "that relied on him taking up 'Indian' issues in ways that cut Indians off from Africans, while his attitudes paralleled those of whites in the early years". Gandhi, the authors write, was indifferent to the plight of the indentured, and believed that state power should remain in white hands, and called black Africans Kaffirs, a derogatory term, for a larger part of his stay in the country.

Racial segregation

In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa".

In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly."

The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital".

This, in itself, say historians, is not entirely new and revelatory. Also, some South Africans have always accused the man who led India to independence of working with the British colonial government to promote racial segregation. In April, a man was arrested in connection with vandalising a statue of Gandhi. A hashtag #Ghandimustfall (sic) has gained circulation on social media.

 

Gandhi's biographer and grandson, Rajmohan Gandhi, says the younger Gandhi - he arrived in South Africa as a 24-year-old briefless lawyer - was undoubtedly "at times ignorant and prejudiced about South Africa's blacks". He believes Gandhi's "struggle for Indian rights in South Africa paved the way for the struggle of black rights". He argues that "Gandhi too was an imperfect human being", but the "imperfect Gandhi was more radical and progressive than most contemporary compatriots".

Ramachandra Guha, writer of the magisterial Gandhi Before India, writes that "to speak of comprehensive equality for coloured people was premature in early 20th Century South Africa". Attacking Gandhi for racism, wrote another commentator, "takes a simplistic view of a complex life".

The authors of the new book disagree.

"Gandhi believed in the Aryan brotherhood. This involved whites and Indians higher up than Africans on the civilised scale. To that extent he was a racist. To the extent that he wrote Africans out of history or was keen to join with whites in their subjugation he was a racist," Ashwin Desai told me.

"To the extent that he accepted white minority power but was keen to be a junior partner, he was a racist. Thank God he did not succeed in this as we would have been culpable in the horrors of apartheid.

"But if Gandhi was part of the racist common sense of the time then how does this qualify him to be a person that is seen as part of the pantheon of South African liberation heroes? You cannot have Gandhi as an accomplice of colonial subjugation in South Africa and then also defend his liberation credentials in South Africa."

'Blind eye'

Desai also rejects the assertion that Gandhi paved the way for the local struggle for black rights - "in one sentence," he says, "you are writing out the history of African resistance to colonialism that unfolded much before Gandhi even arrived".

 

In his book, Guha writes what a friend in Cape Town once told him about Gandhi. "You gave us a lawyer, we gave you back a Mahatma [Great Soul]". Ashwin Desai thinks this is a "ridiculous assertion" about a man who "supported more taxes on impoverished African people and turned a blind eye to the brutality of the Empire on Africans".

The authors of the new book are not the first to challenge the conventional Indian historiography on Gandhi. Historian Patrick French wrote tellingly in 2013 that "Gandhi's blanking of Africans is the black hole at the heart of his saintly mythology".

More than a century after he left Africa, there has been a resurrection of Gandhi in South Africa. Despite their reservations about the 'man of Empire', Desai and Vahed acknowledge that Gandhi "did raise universal demands for equality and dignity".

But even the greatest men are flawed. And Gandhi was possibly no exception.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Mr.T:

 

 

 

Mahatma Gandhi has been variously described as an anti-colonial protester, a religious thinker, a pragmatist, a radical who used non-violence effectively to fight for causes, a canny politician and a whimsical Hindu patriarch.

But was India's greatest leader also a racist?

The authors of a controversial new book on Gandhi's life and work in South Africa certainly believe so. South African academics Ashwin Desai and Goolam Vahed spent seven years exploring the complex story of a man who lived in their country for more than two decades - 1893 to 1914 - and campaigned for the rights of Indian people there.

In The South African Gandhi: Stretcher-Bearer of Empire, Desai and Vahed write that during his stay in Africa, Gandhi kept the Indian struggle "separate from that of Africans and coloureds even though the latter were also denied political rights on the basis of colour and could also lay claim to being British subjects".

They write that Gandhi's political strategies - fighting to repeal unjust laws or freedom of movement or trade - carved out an exclusivist Indian identity "that relied on him taking up 'Indian' issues in ways that cut Indians off from Africans, while his attitudes paralleled those of whites in the early years". Gandhi, the authors write, was indifferent to the plight of the indentured, and believed that state power should remain in white hands, and called black Africans Kaffirs, a derogatory term, for a larger part of his stay in the country.

Racial segregation

In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa".

In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly."

The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital".

This, in itself, say historians, is not entirely new and revelatory. Also, some South Africans have always accused the man who led India to independence of working with the British colonial government to promote racial segregation. In April, a man was arrested in connection with vandalising a statue of Gandhi. A hashtag #Ghandimustfall (sic) has gained circulation on social media.

 

Gandhi's biographer and grandson, Rajmohan Gandhi, says the younger Gandhi - he arrived in South Africa as a 24-year-old briefless lawyer - was undoubtedly "at times ignorant and prejudiced about South Africa's blacks". He believes Gandhi's "struggle for Indian rights in South Africa paved the way for the struggle of black rights". He argues that "Gandhi too was an imperfect human being", but the "imperfect Gandhi was more radical and progressive than most contemporary compatriots".

Ramachandra Guha, writer of the magisterial Gandhi Before India, writes that "to speak of comprehensive equality for coloured people was premature in early 20th Century South Africa". Attacking Gandhi for racism, wrote another commentator, "takes a simplistic view of a complex life".

The authors of the new book disagree.

"Gandhi believed in the Aryan brotherhood. This involved whites and Indians higher up than Africans on the civilised scale. To that extent he was a racist. To the extent that he wrote Africans out of history or was keen to join with whites in their subjugation he was a racist," Ashwin Desai told me.

"To the extent that he accepted white minority power but was keen to be a junior partner, he was a racist. Thank God he did not succeed in this as we would have been culpable in the horrors of apartheid.

"But if Gandhi was part of the racist common sense of the time then how does this qualify him to be a person that is seen as part of the pantheon of South African liberation heroes? You cannot have Gandhi as an accomplice of colonial subjugation in South Africa and then also defend his liberation credentials in South Africa."

'Blind eye'

Desai also rejects the assertion that Gandhi paved the way for the local struggle for black rights - "in one sentence," he says, "you are writing out the history of African resistance to colonialism that unfolded much before Gandhi even arrived".

 

In his book, Guha writes what a friend in Cape Town once told him about Gandhi. "You gave us a lawyer, we gave you back a Mahatma [Great Soul]". Ashwin Desai thinks this is a "ridiculous assertion" about a man who "supported more taxes on impoverished African people and turned a blind eye to the brutality of the Empire on Africans".

The authors of the new book are not the first to challenge the conventional Indian historiography on Gandhi. Historian Patrick French wrote tellingly in 2013 that "Gandhi's blanking of Africans is the black hole at the heart of his saintly mythology".

More than a century after he left Africa, there has been a resurrection of Gandhi in South Africa. Despite their reservations about the 'man of Empire', Desai and Vahed acknowledge that Gandhi "did raise universal demands for equality and dignity".

But even the greatest men are flawed. And Gandhi was possibly no exception.

He was an Indian nationalist. This book is a shoddy piece of literature that misses out on the important contribution Gandhi's message has had on the world. It seems like a money making venture....there is a volume of literature that supports this fact about Gandhi...including the words of Mandela and Martin Luther King.

V

You say that, but it has been well known that history deniers have tried to portray Gandhi as a saint. His time in Africa has however been extensively documented. But under the old colonial rule his views on blacks was brushed over, until now. Gandhi, like many Indians, have always seen themselves superior to black people. It is time that his past is further investigated and the truth is told. 

Mr.T

Was he a racist towards black skin people or Africans?

 

Birsa Munda was a tribal fighter in the 19th century-he fought(taking lives) every system in India for the equality of all tribes. He was before Gandhi. Gandhi did not carry through with that quest. I would think, he was more concerned about tackling the evil of the world-the British Empire in India.

 

Back in that period, there were levels of freedom. I doan believe that mankind were ever primitive. Vasco da Gama before venturing to the Malabars(India) sought the services of East African sailors. Because they knew the route of the monsoon winds and its timings. African were going to India since Biblical times. They traded with each other. Ships ferried the Indian ocean between Africa and India.

 

Modern man seems determined to find racism in all facets of society, far and wide.

 

Freedom and liberty is not a new concept. I suspect  we have gone beyond civilized. What we have is a belief of refinement. It is like a bell curve-we on the downward trend. Heading back to tribalism. Isn't it what all this discourse is about. 

S
Originally Posted by seignet:

Was he a racist towards black skin people or Africans?

 

Birsa Munda was a tribal fighter in the 19th century-he fought(taking lives) every system in India for the equality of all tribes. He was before Gandhi. Gandhi did not carry through with that quest. I would think, he was more concerned about tackling the evil of the world-the British Empire in India.

 

Back in that period, there were levels of freedom. I doan believe that mankind were ever primitive. Vasco da Gama before venturing to the Malabars(India) sought the services of East African sailors. Because they knew the route of the monsoon winds and its timings. African were going to India since Biblical times. They traded with each other. Ships ferried the Indian ocean between Africa and India.

 

Modern man seems determined to find racism in all facets of society, far and wide.

 

Freedom and liberty is not a new concept. I suspect  we have gone beyond civilized. What we have is a belief of refinement. It is like a bell curve-we on the downward trend. Heading back to tribalism. Isn't it what all this discourse is about. 

Nah, we BECOMING civilized in our treatment of each other. Of course a racist, tribal, primitive like you would see it as going "beyond civilized" wid yuh nastiness.

 

If T's lead post is true regarding Gandhi, I won't be shocked. I've long said there is something seriously wrong with the mindset of Indian folks when it comes to black people. We are and ever will be, in most of alyuh minds, inferior to the Indian. The indian man or woman who condemns such racist behavior from their own indians is forever ex communicated and subject to the nasty slurs like "house slave" and worse. Guh heal yuh own disease!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Mr.T:

You say that, but it has been well known that history deniers have tried to portray Gandhi as a saint. His time in Africa has however been extensively documented. But under the old colonial rule his views on blacks was brushed over, until now. Gandhi, like many Indians, have always seen themselves superior to black people. It is time that his past is further investigated and the truth is told. 

I would never argue that Gandhi was a saint, though some people, like my grandparents, treated Gandhi like a saint...I would argue that there are weaknesses in all of us, particularly those who take a moral line of argument.

 

Having said this, I believe Gandhi was weak in other areas of his political outlook, but we also have to see him for what he contributed to the world in terms of a philosophy that works well in a democracy (his non-violent philosophy would not have worked well against Hitler or Mussolini). He has a tremendous influence on ML King and the young Nelson Mandela (before he adopted more violent means to remove apartheid).

 

The writers of this book have questionable backgrounds, as I read somewhere. They are looking for Gandhi's weakness and are not concerned about his strengths. Its a highlight grabber and a book intended to provide monetary earnings. I am only reporting what others have said, but I have to admit that I have not read the book, don't know of the research technique and methodology they used to gather credible information for this book.

 

Having said this...I am sure this kind of crappy information will give fodder for the tittilations of people like Itaname, Redux and Carib, all who are racially blinded to the inherent belief that all Indos are racist towards Blacks. The latent inherent racism lies in the fact that you found time to research and post this information on this site.  

V
Last edited by VishMahabir
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff:
Originally Posted by yuji22:

PNC racism and ethnic cleansing has now expanded. They are labelling Gandhi a racist.

 

What a bunch of PNC scums !

It's an article by an Indian...read before yuh spout off

 

It was written by a fool and endorsed by the PNC. 

WHere was it endorsed by the PNC?

 

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:

For those who don't know, Gandhi started his anti apartheid fight in South Africa and then later started his peaceful movement to force the British oppressors from India.

There is little evidence to back up the claim that he started his anti apartheid movement in the way many think. What he wanted was that Indos and blacks were separated, and that Indos and whites were seen as equal.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

For T and Caribj itis simple,  IF YOU ARE NOT BLACK, YOU ARE A RACIST.

My I remind you that I am from a higher caste than you? So yes I do look down on you chamars.

Mr.T
Originally Posted by Mr.T:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

For T and Caribj itis simple,  IF YOU ARE NOT BLACK, YOU ARE A RACIST.

My I remind you that I am from a higher caste than you? So yes I do look down on you chamars.

I AM ALWAYS RIGHT

Nehru
Originally Posted by yuji22:

For those who don't know, Gandhi started his anti apartheid fight in South Africa and then later started his peaceful movement to force the British oppressors from India.

Quit your bull. Gandhi was a man of his culture and times. He was not averse to virulent racist expressions. It is clear later in life as he became more matured and attune to his new philosophy of satyagraha he became a true follower of hindu dharma and saw all humanity as one. However, his early life is full of bigoted expressions.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Gandhi was a human like all of us. I don't believe every moment of his life was perfect. But try convince India and the world that he was racist. Good luck.

India knows...like most of you they prefer wilfull ignorance and banned books mentioning this aspect of his life or his suspected homosexuality. Open minded people can accept his importance to humanity even with his flaws. The ignorant want perfection.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Gandhi was a human like all of us. I don't believe every moment of his life was perfect. But try convince India and the world that he was racist. Good luck.

India knows...like most of you they prefer wilfull ignorance and banned books mentioning this aspect of his life or his suspected homosexuality. Open minded people can accept his importance to humanity even with his flaws. The ignorant want perfection.

His suspected homosexuality explains Nehru's fascination wid he.

FM
Originally Posted by Itaname:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Gandhi was a human like all of us. I don't believe every moment of his life was perfect. But try convince India and the world that he was racist. Good luck.

India knows...like most of you they prefer wilfull ignorance and banned books mentioning this aspect of his life or his suspected homosexuality. Open minded people can accept his importance to humanity even with his flaws. The ignorant want perfection.

His suspected homosexuality explains Nehru's fascination wid he.

YUh better half would tell you differently!!!

Nehru

Mahatma Gandhi promised unity between Hindus and Muslims, he failed as 500,000 people died when India was partitioned. He also promised the untouchables a guaranteed 50 seats in Parliament.  he backtracked on his promised. He directly caused the death of millions whilst fighting for the independence of India.   Thanks to Mohamed Jinnah Muslims and hindus can now live in peace if they choose to.

R
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Mr.T:

 

 

 

Mahatma Gandhi has been variously described as an anti-colonial protester, a religious thinker, a pragmatist, a radical who used non-violence effectively to fight for causes, a canny politician and a whimsical Hindu patriarch.

But was India's greatest leader also a racist?

The authors of a controversial new book on Gandhi's life and work in South Africa certainly believe so. South African academics Ashwin Desai and Goolam Vahed spent seven years exploring the complex story of a man who lived in their country for more than two decades - 1893 to 1914 - and campaigned for the rights of Indian people there.

In The South African Gandhi: Stretcher-Bearer of Empire, Desai and Vahed write that during his stay in Africa, Gandhi kept the Indian struggle "separate from that of Africans and coloureds even though the latter were also denied political rights on the basis of colour and could also lay claim to being British subjects".

They write that Gandhi's political strategies - fighting to repeal unjust laws or freedom of movement or trade - carved out an exclusivist Indian identity "that relied on him taking up 'Indian' issues in ways that cut Indians off from Africans, while his attitudes paralleled those of whites in the early years". Gandhi, the authors write, was indifferent to the plight of the indentured, and believed that state power should remain in white hands, and called black Africans Kaffirs, a derogatory term, for a larger part of his stay in the country.

Racial segregation

In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa".

In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly."

The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital".

This, in itself, say historians, is not entirely new and revelatory. Also, some South Africans have always accused the man who led India to independence of working with the British colonial government to promote racial segregation. In April, a man was arrested in connection with vandalising a statue of Gandhi. A hashtag #Ghandimustfall (sic) has gained circulation on social media.

 

Gandhi's biographer and grandson, Rajmohan Gandhi, says the younger Gandhi - he arrived in South Africa as a 24-year-old briefless lawyer - was undoubtedly "at times ignorant and prejudiced about South Africa's blacks". He believes Gandhi's "struggle for Indian rights in South Africa paved the way for the struggle of black rights". He argues that "Gandhi too was an imperfect human being", but the "imperfect Gandhi was more radical and progressive than most contemporary compatriots".

Ramachandra Guha, writer of the magisterial Gandhi Before India, writes that "to speak of comprehensive equality for coloured people was premature in early 20th Century South Africa". Attacking Gandhi for racism, wrote another commentator, "takes a simplistic view of a complex life".

The authors of the new book disagree.

"Gandhi believed in the Aryan brotherhood. This involved whites and Indians higher up than Africans on the civilised scale. To that extent he was a racist. To the extent that he wrote Africans out of history or was keen to join with whites in their subjugation he was a racist," Ashwin Desai told me.

"To the extent that he accepted white minority power but was keen to be a junior partner, he was a racist. Thank God he did not succeed in this as we would have been culpable in the horrors of apartheid.

"But if Gandhi was part of the racist common sense of the time then how does this qualify him to be a person that is seen as part of the pantheon of South African liberation heroes? You cannot have Gandhi as an accomplice of colonial subjugation in South Africa and then also defend his liberation credentials in South Africa."

'Blind eye'

Desai also rejects the assertion that Gandhi paved the way for the local struggle for black rights - "in one sentence," he says, "you are writing out the history of African resistance to colonialism that unfolded much before Gandhi even arrived".

 

In his book, Guha writes what a friend in Cape Town once told him about Gandhi. "You gave us a lawyer, we gave you back a Mahatma [Great Soul]". Ashwin Desai thinks this is a "ridiculous assertion" about a man who "supported more taxes on impoverished African people and turned a blind eye to the brutality of the Empire on Africans".

The authors of the new book are not the first to challenge the conventional Indian historiography on Gandhi. Historian Patrick French wrote tellingly in 2013 that "Gandhi's blanking of Africans is the black hole at the heart of his saintly mythology".

More than a century after he left Africa, there has been a resurrection of Gandhi in South Africa. Despite their reservations about the 'man of Empire', Desai and Vahed acknowledge that Gandhi "did raise universal demands for equality and dignity".

But even the greatest men are flawed. And Gandhi was possibly no exception.

He was an Indian nationalist. This book is a shoddy piece of literature that misses out on the important contribution Gandhi's message has had on the world. It seems like a money making venture....there is a volume of literature that supports this fact about Gandhi...including the words of Mandela and Martin Luther King.


Evidently Gandhi was initially a racist, but recognized the error of his ways.  By the time MLK and Mandela became aware of him, he was reformed.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Itaname:
 

If T's lead post is true regarding Gandhi, I won't be shocked. I've long said there is something seriously wrong with the mindset of Indian folks when it comes to black people.


When Indians arrived in Guyana, those who were literate, wrote back to their folks talking about blacks as monkeys.

 

We see today African students beaten in New Delhi, and elsewhere.  Indians have a huge issue of skin color, and are even abusive to their darker brethren from South India.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Where the PNC said anything about Bapu???Bhai a tell you

alyuh loosing it.

smh

Django
Originally Posted by Django:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Where the PNC said anything about Bapu???Bhai a tell you

alyuh loosing it.

smh

banna, bottom feeding creatures like yugee and cobra wear stupidity like armor, depositing their nonsense barefoot ruminations with immense pride

 

there is no cure for that

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Dummy...the man left a record of his bigotry in his own hand. No one has to fabricate that.

 

His inclination to men is inferred from his letters to his best friend Hermann Kallenbach with whom he shacked up a long time. The words are not as a brother to brother but from one lover to another.I do not know why it mattered if he was or not.

 

Get informed dunce!

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Dummy...the man left a record of his bigotry in his own hand. No one has to fabricate that.

 

His inclination to men is inferred from his letters to his best friend Hermann Kallenbach with whom he shacked up a long time. The words are not as a brother to brother but from one lover to another.I do not know why it mattered if he was or not.

 

Get informed dunce!

Listen, few Bucks can appreciate the greatness of Bapu. The racist Bucks like you will never understand.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Dummy...the man left a record of his bigotry in his own hand. No one has to fabricate that.

 

His inclination to men is inferred from his letters to his best friend Hermann Kallenbach with whom he shacked up a long time. The words are not as a brother to brother but from one lover to another.I do not know why it mattered if he was or not.

 

Get informed dunce!

Listen, few Bucks can appreciate the greatness of Bapu. The racist Bucks like you will never understand.

Indeed I cannot understand. Your vision of the man differs from what the world knows of him.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

Dummy...the man left a record of his bigotry in his own hand. No one has to fabricate that.

 

His inclination to men is inferred from his letters to his best friend Hermann Kallenbach with whom he shacked up a long time. The words are not as a brother to brother but from one lover to another.I do not know why it mattered if he was or not.

 

Get informed dunce!

Listen, few Bucks can appreciate the greatness of Bapu. The racist Bucks like you will never understand.

You don't see this as racist and dumb, do you?

cain
Originally Posted by yuji22:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Even if the article is true, no wrong can ever stick to an iconic figure like Gandhi. Is like throwing water on buck's back.

 

1000 percent accurate.

 

PNC cannot even attempt to ethnically cleanse the record of Bapu.

 Cobra's post shows no matter the wrongdoings of a person, as long as it's done by their kind ( the Cobra's,yugis, etc)  everything irie.

 

 

Yugi's show total stupidity.

First, he agrees with Cobra as above and second, he has this love affair for PNC he sees PNC in everything, even things they don't have a dam care about.

 

Yugi, show us an instance where the PNC spoke anything...just anything about Gandhi. Are you not tired of being told ypu are a friggin dunce on these matters?

cain
Last edited by cain
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
My problem is that Gandhi was not also the Christ, heck even the Father Himself smh.

I take it, you do not care for any good he may have done?

To the contrary, my comment was to pay homage to his accomplishments. Gandhi is famous because of what one single man was able to accomplish. Yet some revisionist come around nearly 100 years later to diminish it. His results was in-spite of his apparent capabilities. We have this sick habit of judging the actions of people in the past based on what we know now totally ignoring the circumstances at that time.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Mr.T:

 

 

 

Mahatma Gandhi has been variously described as an anti-colonial protester, a religious thinker, a pragmatist, a radical who used non-violence effectively to fight for causes, a canny politician and a whimsical Hindu patriarch.

But was India's greatest leader also a racist?

The authors of a controversial new book on Gandhi's life and work in South Africa certainly believe so. South African academics Ashwin Desai and Goolam Vahed spent seven years exploring the complex story of a man who lived in their country for more than two decades - 1893 to 1914 - and campaigned for the rights of Indian people there.

In The South African Gandhi: Stretcher-Bearer of Empire, Desai and Vahed write that during his stay in Africa, Gandhi kept the Indian struggle "separate from that of Africans and coloureds even though the latter were also denied political rights on the basis of colour and could also lay claim to being British subjects".

They write that Gandhi's political strategies - fighting to repeal unjust laws or freedom of movement or trade - carved out an exclusivist Indian identity "that relied on him taking up 'Indian' issues in ways that cut Indians off from Africans, while his attitudes paralleled those of whites in the early years". Gandhi, the authors write, was indifferent to the plight of the indentured, and believed that state power should remain in white hands, and called black Africans Kaffirs, a derogatory term, for a larger part of his stay in the country.

Racial segregation

In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa".

In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly."

The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital".

This, in itself, say historians, is not entirely new and revelatory. Also, some South Africans have always accused the man who led India to independence of working with the British colonial government to promote racial segregation. In April, a man was arrested in connection with vandalising a statue of Gandhi. A hashtag #Ghandimustfall (sic) has gained circulation on social media.

 

Gandhi's biographer and grandson, Rajmohan Gandhi, says the younger Gandhi - he arrived in South Africa as a 24-year-old briefless lawyer - was undoubtedly "at times ignorant and prejudiced about South Africa's blacks". He believes Gandhi's "struggle for Indian rights in South Africa paved the way for the struggle of black rights". He argues that "Gandhi too was an imperfect human being", but the "imperfect Gandhi was more radical and progressive than most contemporary compatriots".

Ramachandra Guha, writer of the magisterial Gandhi Before India, writes that "to speak of comprehensive equality for coloured people was premature in early 20th Century South Africa". Attacking Gandhi for racism, wrote another commentator, "takes a simplistic view of a complex life".

The authors of the new book disagree.

"Gandhi believed in the Aryan brotherhood. This involved whites and Indians higher up than Africans on the civilised scale. To that extent he was a racist. To the extent that he wrote Africans out of history or was keen to join with whites in their subjugation he was a racist," Ashwin Desai told me.

"To the extent that he accepted white minority power but was keen to be a junior partner, he was a racist. Thank God he did not succeed in this as we would have been culpable in the horrors of apartheid.

"But if Gandhi was part of the racist common sense of the time then how does this qualify him to be a person that is seen as part of the pantheon of South African liberation heroes? You cannot have Gandhi as an accomplice of colonial subjugation in South Africa and then also defend his liberation credentials in South Africa."

'Blind eye'

Desai also rejects the assertion that Gandhi paved the way for the local struggle for black rights - "in one sentence," he says, "you are writing out the history of African resistance to colonialism that unfolded much before Gandhi even arrived".

 

In his book, Guha writes what a friend in Cape Town once told him about Gandhi. "You gave us a lawyer, we gave you back a Mahatma [Great Soul]". Ashwin Desai thinks this is a "ridiculous assertion" about a man who "supported more taxes on impoverished African people and turned a blind eye to the brutality of the Empire on Africans".

The authors of the new book are not the first to challenge the conventional Indian historiography on Gandhi. Historian Patrick French wrote tellingly in 2013 that "Gandhi's blanking of Africans is the black hole at the heart of his saintly mythology".

More than a century after he left Africa, there has been a resurrection of Gandhi in South Africa. Despite their reservations about the 'man of Empire', Desai and Vahed acknowledge that Gandhi "did raise universal demands for equality and dignity".

But even the greatest men are flawed. And Gandhi was possibly no exception.

He was an Indian nationalist. This book is a shoddy piece of literature that misses out on the important contribution Gandhi's message has had on the world. It seems like a money making venture....there is a volume of literature that supports this fact about Gandhi...including the words of Mandela and Martin Luther King.


Evidently Gandhi was initially a racist, but recognized the error of his ways.  By the time MLK and Mandela became aware of him, he was reformed.

I have to agree with caribj here.  The Mahatma at the end of his life was a different person. I think it was Mandela who said that South Africa transformed Gandhi into the Mahatma.

FM

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