It all started with Burnham bro

(i) i am unaware that Burnham's "materiel" support for the liberation struggles in Southern Africa was of such magnitude that it requires special mention as a "squandered and diverted" high factor contributing to the economic collapse of the late 1970's -1980's

(ii) i am also unaware that Guyana's currency became "worthless" under Burnham; currency controls, yes . . . but i assume u know the difference

Redux, bauxite shipments were bartered for such materiel. The Guyana dollar became not convertible even in soft currency, let alone hard currency.

Well, I just finished reading all 400 plus pages of Odeen's History of Guyana.  All I can say is that we had a brutal history.  The political turmoil today is a cake-walk compared to the 50s and pre-independence 60s.

I blame Burnham handily for Guyana situation.   Burnham was a totally power drunk individual and would do anything for power.  That's why we have to be careful about Jagdeo because he shows the same tendency.

Burnham was the direct cause for the massive brain drain from Guyana.  With the deteriorating economic conditions people of all races fled Guyana.  Some may say this was not a bad thing because they are better off in the ABC countries, but without a doubt Guyana suffered.

I think we need to reverse the brain drain.  The government needs to seek out individuals "in the know" that will be willing to return and help establish a new foundation.  Even if these people return on a temporary basis we will be better off.   I think this pool will be mostly from retirees.  Others, like myself, can help by reviewing documents and providing advice.  The government has to provide an avenue to make this happen.

I truly do not believe we have the depth of knowledge in Guyana today to take the country forward.  The cabinet is full of old people without any knowledge of what modern tools are out there.  Also, those in charge tend to have this "know it all" attitude and are unwilling to listen to experts.   We need a change in thinking in Guyana.

It started when Guyana became a concern for US's Monroe Doctrine during the cold war. You are smart enough to figure out that the early 60s PPP's posture led to the American involvement that led to Burnham's rise. Also the early 70s critical support for nationalization by the PPP was monumental. Let's not distort our history.

VVP, the brain drain got underway in earnest in the early 60s in the run up to Independence and it was mostly Black. Some Indians came to North America but it was largely for economic reasons. Guyana's middle class was largely Black and urban with some Indian industrialists and mercantilists on Regent St and Water St (some expat Sindis). It accelerated for Indians after Burnham destroyed the social and civic infrastructure in the early 70s.

I have not yet read Odeen Ishmael's history of Guyana, and that's hy I asked for comments to my take.

I agree with what you said here.  Frankly, I was surprised to read that just after independence Burnham had the vision to try to recruite the Guyanese that had already left.  BTW the massive migration started in the 70s if I remember correctly.

yours is a woefully inadequate response to my post regarding "materiel" support for the Southern Africa liberation struggle

i was not in Guyana at the time, but i know what the exchange rate was, since i was receiving money from my family back in Guyana (black market and official)at that time. The idea that the currency regime collapsed under Burnham is a crock. Horrible shortage of foreign exchange, yes, but there was no cranking up of the currency printing presses or the devaluations we became accustomed to in the late 80's - early 90's

as policy, this autarkic model is absurd . . . but words and facts matter

and banna, even without the capital controls of the PNC years, the Guyana Dollar is only semi-convertible today re hard currency

Correct, but you know that Arthur Schlesinger, Jr did personally apologize to Jagan after 1992.  The funny thing is that a country that preaches democracy cannot allow others to be democratic if it's against their grain.

As a school boy I remember meeting some Afro repatriates mainly from the UK.  Some of them formed the core key management in the nationalized industries.  After they bruk-up everything, dem all "tek plane run fly away".  A few less educated remained in Guyana and became poor.  I remember one in particular my father hired to work as he felt sorry for him.  He ended up hating Burnham.

I bow to your immense understanding of Guyana's history, specifically its involvement in the struggles in southern Africa in the latter half of the 70s and of Guyana's currency, oh master Redux.

There's a saying that one should leave well alone. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve in your responses, but I leave it at that. Take a bow now

like baseman, you have an easy way with facts and are very sloppy with words especially where Guyana's ethnic politics and received wisdom intersect

you start a thread sketching out a particular take on Guyana's modern history, inviting others to contribute; i point to some of your very loose statements and challenge key assumption(s) which you are unable to support with facts

feigning some high dankey, fake exasperation, u then wander down a face saving road, littered with silly emoticons, muttering that you don't understand what i am "trying to achieve" by questioning you on these matters

try the unvarnished truth for a change . . . THAT will shut me up, arite?

Redux Bhai, I can only have sympathy for you. You seem like a bitter loner from your communications here.

I'll leave you be without responding to the idiocy you pose so as not to encourage a depressive mood in you. Stay on the farm buddy.

Guyana played a material role in the Angolan and Mozambique civil wars in the 70's.  At that time I was a teen living near the airport and saw the action.  Earlier we noticed very large fuel tank buried in the sand hills being dug up, transported and reburied near the army barracks next to the airport.  As boy in the area we asked and was told the Govt just wanted to have more fuel close to the airport in case of another shortage.  Shortly thereafter, one evening just after sundown we heard large jet-props (Tupolev turned out) coming in, refueling and take off.  They were huge planes never seen before, vibrating the homes.  They landed and took off every 30-45 mins.  This went on for almost an entire week at nights only, non-stop. Later we found this was the transfer of some 30k Cuban troops who intervened and defeated UNITA in Angola and installed the Mozambique Govt.  I believe they then later intervened in Ethopia against Somaliahe horn of Africa war.  Guyana was critical as the planes did not have the range to fly directly to the battle zone from Cuba but could from Guyana.

The US was angry and Kissinger indicated they will "teach" the Govt of Guyana a lesson.  It was from 1976 Guyana's economy took a major down-turn.  BTW, some Guyanese troops joined the Cubans and few get killed in Africa, their cremated remains returned to their family.  One mother in GT lamented saying her son told him he was going on a secret training mission.

So in a nutshell, Kari is correct, this was a big change in Guyana.

On the currency being worthless, will effectively yes.  People started investing in anything, even cars as a hedge as the currency was falling like lead.  This all was connected to the pressure brought to bear on Guyana for joining the Soviet struggle for domination in Africa.  Remember, Burnham was installed as a US hedge against Soviet influence in Guyana/LATAM.

I'm sure HE Granger could shed more accurate light on these Burnham's excursions.

Base....you are correct about the Cuban over-flights because of the lack of range of the aircraft used flying from Cuba to southern Africa. You are also right about Angola and Mozambique with Cuban soldiers. BTW, I was in Cuba in '82 when the body bags were coming home from southern Africa.

exactly how does this antiman back rubbing about the Angola conflict - a war about which half of what i know would overwhelm the combined knowledge of you 2 fellas - have anything to do with my challenges to kari's nonsense . . . let me restate:

"i am unaware that Burnham's "materiel" support for the liberation struggles in Southern Africa was of such magnitude that it requires special mention as a "squandered and diverted" high factor contributing to the economic collapse of the late 1970's -1980's"

all antiman please note that my contention has nothing at all to do with the very obvious negative political/economic fallout as a consequence of Fatbai throwing in with the extraordinary Cuban expeditionary effort in Africa . . . "[monies were]squandered and diverted" is hilited for a reason, ok? however i'm sure that y'all already know that but insist on playing the ass to save [kari's] face

and you 2 kanta 'economists' please stop with the stupidness about Guyana's currency being "worthless" in the late 1970's - early 1980's, arite?

any fool equipped with even a passing theory of money understands that a currency that can purchase US dollars in a G$8-15 to US$1 exchange is very, very, very, very far from "worthless"

smfh

Bank rate, not street/market rate.  Banks were giving 5:1 when the street was fetching 25:1.

Redux Kari is correct in terms of this.  The GYD was a laughing stock in the Caribbean by the late 70s.

The issue that I have with him is the normal "baad black man" syndrome that so many are linked to.  There were things that Janet Jagan did that set the stage for Burnham, and his analysis of the Jagdeo era is quite scanty.

What did Janet do that u keep blaming her?

Cheddie was a well liked person by Afro-Guyanese. And I suspect he had their admiration because, it is believed he wanted to let Forbes had his way at the 1955 congress. Boycotting the proceedings, he remained at home. It is assumed Janet gave him a good raking over. And he returned the next and decided to fight Forbes on all the motions put forward by the Forbes faction. 

Eventually, the party had a rift.

Redux comment on the exchange rate was interesting. I agree with him at that particular time the dollar had some value. It traded at a decent value. I think the man is a economist.

please parse "laughing stock" in non-emotional language that addresses empirical shit and analysis

Guyana had a fixed exchange rate due to the horrible state of the economy and very, very limited hard currency reserves as Burnham stupidly doubled down on the autarkic path.

please address how a "worthless" currency was able to buy US dollars at the official 4:1 thereabouts; parallel 8:1, 15:1, etc

in the face of almost total economic collapse, Guyana was able to maintain, more or less, this currency regime up till the ERP devaluations kicked in under Hoyte.

Mugabe's Zimbabwe or post-Versailles Germany this is NOT!

y'all need to stop this emotional nonsense . . . words have meaning dude

Got your point.

Bhai Redux, when yuh gon tek yuh medi-kayshun, eh?

Relax and smile. Life is good. Life is beautiful. Stop the self-flagellation. Grab a beer and dance with a chick!

They didn't vote for him in 1964, or 1992, and they definitely did NOT support Janet in 1997.

So where do you develop this notion that blacks liked Cheddie.  They FEARED the notion of Cheddie ruling Guyana.

The GYD was NOT accepted as a currency outside of Guyana.  The rates that you mention are those which Guyanese had to use to acquire USD.  That is IN GUYANA.  And that was when the Bank of GY allowed you to buy foreign currency.  Usually it had to be bought black market.

I would have asked what would have happened to you would you have tried to exchange a GYD at a bank in Barbados in 1980.

Seignet, I have a BSc in Economics from City University, London, UK. I worked as a Trade Economist for the Government of Guyana 1980 - 84. [I'm a Computer Systems Engineer now]. I was the author of Countertrade which became a part of Guyana's economic policy back then (to squirt around the IMF strictures on foreign currency). That was meant to help local businessmen in non-traditional exports - Prawns, furniture, etc.

Caribny made the astute observation that whatever  the value of the Guyana Dollar was in those days it was not convertible (I think I mentioned this too earlier) - meaning it wasn't a tradeable currency. I didn't bother to reply to Redux's usual uninformed, uneducated rants.

you are arguing with yourself . . . NO ONE is disputing that!

nothing "astute" about erecting straw men and systematically destroying them . . . see my response to Caribny

nobody gives a f*ck about your soi disant 'lofty' credentials and experience . . . lol

if you post swill here, those more knowledgeable, those more educated or, more to the point, those more honest and without agendas will put u in your place

kapeesh?

soi disant

Inimitable Redux......

Here's another soi disant for ya - I passed French at GCE "O" Levels in 1974 after 5 years of learning it at QC.

Now ferme la bouche!

so what? . . . O'Level French is a great achievement now?

i and so many others passed that without studying

wtf