Mr. Burnham kept a multi-party system, but rigged elections.” Yet Granger claims he has no evidence of any rigging where hundreds of thousands of East Indians were disenfranchised  even though overwhelming evidence exists in the public domain,

" For example, in October 2003, in Santiago, Chile, Mr. Granger presented a paper titled, “Civil Violence, Domestic Terrorism and Internal Security In Guyana, 1953-2003,” at a conference organised by the Centre for Hemispheric Defence Studies. In his presentation, Granger deliberately omitted the PNC orchestrated, May 25-26, 1964, Wismar Massacre of East Indians, but was effusive about the Sun Chapman tragedy, lamenting, “…the most alarming slaughter…of 40 Africans on 6th July…in the Demerara River on a motor launch to Mackenzie.”

 "Granger failed to mention that two East Indians, Jagan Ramessar and Parmanad Bholanauth, were killed on July 16, 1973 by soldiers who seized the ballot boxes. He also failed to mention the massive fear that swept the Corentyne in the face of this atrocity; the intimidatory tactics of the military forces both before and after the elections – constantly marching through East  Indian areas, running fully armed into people’s yards and bottom houses,"

"As head of the army during the  “kick down the door” banditry of the early 80s that targeted mostly  East Indians, Granger took no action to stop these acts when many of the victims provided proof that military personnel were involved and were harassed by the security forces for so doing?"

"Granger plan to set up an institute of conflict resolution and national reconciliation near the scene of the Sun Chapman explosion and do nothing about the genocide of East Indians that took place at Wismar."

And when did any one of you mention the old couple who were killed by PYO terrorists in 1964?

 

OOOPs, in your racist brains every single murder, Indian or black, were committed by blacks.    Indian men were weaklings, quaking every time a black woman sucked her teeth on them.

 

Its interesting that you accuse Granger of being racist, when YOU CLAIM, that he omitted PNC atrocities, when YOU omit PPP atrocities.

 

In fact the PNC atrocities are frequently commented on.  You lot are sure of that. Its the PPP atrocities which are hidden and ought to be brought out to light, like the ridiculous suggestion that the PPP was not involved in the bombing of the Sun Chapman.

By the Philosophy of Forest Gump, one is what one does. No black person in in the foreign service as a face of the nation in his era. I do not think he let any large projects go to any but his friends and family.

The PPP refuses to acknowledge their role in the Sun Chapman, and in many other atrocities during that era.  So run off like a pig and squeal your incoherent ignorance.

you people need to stop living in the past

Guyana's present is determined by its past.  May 11th should have shown this. It was an election that was as ethnically divisive as any, with a miniscule swing vote, as is normal.

 

Only a growing mixed population, a shrinking Indian population, and a record turn out in PNC strong holds led to a different result.

 

Until Guyanese make peace with their interpretation of the past, in other words admitting that BOTH major races committed atrocities, and both major races suffered as a result, we will go no where. The endless parade of "bad black, good Indian" stirs up animosities on BOTH sides. 

Forest Gump also said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get."  The AFC surely didn't know what they were going to get with the PNC government.  They were looking for a lot more power.  Politics sucks sometimes - doesn't it?

Oh go and harass Kari. That is the only time that you look remotely interesting, as you provide a spectacle of a woman past her prime, running in heat behind a man who she is attracted to.

Riff, it's not living in the past. This is the current President of a country who wrote on its history and if the randolph post above is accurate (I didn't see the source so I have to believe it's randolph's original) then the current President of Guyana omitted historical facts; not opinions.

 

I do not recall seeing, or reading anything then and after about a PPP plot to disrupt the 1973 elections. I observed soldiers on Wakenaam island who were so alien to the island they could have been from Her Imperial Majesty's army.

 

I  would like to see a senior military figure during the days of the kick-down-the-door banditry, like the current President, comment on it as an unsavory part of our history.

 

This is all part of the recantation or apology if you like, for the caribnys of this world, that I was suggesting prior to an election the APNU would not have won without the AFC.

Granger is a bloody racist. He will never come out and accept that he is racial towards east Indians. First day on the job, he fired all coolies and replaced them with blacks. 99% of all robberies and killing are Indians. What you make of that?

Still with you "black man baad, Indian good, so black man has to apologize".

 

Kari blacks will NOT apologize as they are NOT the only ones guilty!  Note that Granger did NOT apologize.

 

1.  APNU did NOT have to apologize to Indians for the PPP to lose.

 

2.  Had Granger groveled to Indians, blacks would have abandoned him, as they abandoned Corbin, and that 5% Indian vote which AFC brought in wouldn't have saved them.  Look at  the PNC 2006 results if you wish.  Region 10 is a good example, as that is as pure a PNC region as any.

 

Bottom line is your screams for Indians to be apologized to with blacks being implicated as guilty would have FAILED!

 

Now go and attempt to understand African/mixed political behavior as you demand that others attempt to understand Indians. 

Kari deal with your friends.  Based on the last election, when Jagdeo was more blatantly racist than any politician since 1964, this is the message that 95% of the Indians want to hear.

kari, i m quite certain that David Granger is fully aware that elections from 1968 up till 1992 were rigged by the PNC; for all kinds of compelling, obvious reasons he will likely not formally admit this absent a Truth & Reconciliation type commission where everybady comes clean . . . if ever

 

but tell us more about "kick-down-the-door-banditry" that the "PNC" must "apologize" for . . . i had long left Guyana by that time

 

why on earth would the Gov't of the day sponsor criminals to wage this kind of "unsavoury" war on the people as u suggest?

 

what i do know is that the PNC/Hoyte re-instituted hanging to deal with the scourge

 

??????? . . .

 

Government is not about happenstance. It is procedural and any unexpected outcome is error. The chocolate metaphor does not work.

 

Of course they knew...not the PPP. I see nothing sucky about the present that makes me regret the PPP is gone.

I guess you did not wish to address this that Ii wrote:

 

I do not recall seeing, or reading anything then and after about a PPP plot to disrupt the 1973 elections. I observed soldiers on Wakenaam island who were so alien to the island they could have been from Her Imperial Majesty's army.

 

I  would like to see a senior military figure during the days of the kick-down-the-door banditry, like the current President, comment on it as an unsavory part of our history.

 

It isn't so much that the government of the day sponsored criminals in the kick-down-the-door banditry era, as it did nothing to stop it. The bandits were all military (both police and army) who wore civilian clothes when they were off duty and used military weaponry. This is well known, not speculation. I know of personal stories on the East Coast during that time.

 

Indeed Hoyte stamped it out. This just shows the factions within the PNC at that time. My wife's home was left out of the rampage while others around her house suffered, including someone who worked high up for Hoyte, while I worked for him too.

 

The rigging was more than about the voting. For weeks GDF soldiers were stationed in rural areas where they never set foot before. I knew some of the soldiers at Wakenaam because I trained with them at Tacama battle school that same year. Ii was tear-gassed too on that election day but was never picked up the next day for Mazaruni prison while some close friends were.

I guess you have a congenital inability to describe any event where the PPP wronged black people.

 

Continue waiting for the apology.  Like redux said you MIGHT get it if there is a Truth & Reconciliation where BOTH sides come clean.

 

But you want a "black man baad, Indo good so black man must apologize".

 

 

NOT HAPPENING. Afro Guyanese owe you NOTHING!

violent crime by scum with access to weapons and training is not new . . . it was a prominent feature of jagdeo's rule and continues today

 

what exactly is the political endgame of this era that u are pointing so ominously at? . . . it was Hoyte who snuffed it out damnit!

 

cui bono?

 

kari, you are spouting contradictory nonsense and conjuring up idiot scenarios about dueling PNC "factions" out of thin air to cover your ignoble ass

 

the rest of your post is the usual wallow in sacred victimization and old sore picking

 

let's not forget that 2-face tribal operators like you would have jagdeo dem still in power today

 

g'wan dahside with yuh oily, ethnic pander

CaribJ ......I am telling you.....

(Definitely - Under Burnham & De PNC Old School)

the PNC + Rabbi Washington + Kick-Down-Door Bandits

were all rolled up in one.

 

I am also telling you ...

(Definitely - Under Jagdeo & Ramotar & De Funny Fellas & Indian Crooks & Criminals)

The PPP  + Roger Khan + De Phantom Killers

were all rolled up in one.

 

 

CaribJ ......I am further telling you.....

(Definitely - Under Corbin & De PNC Old School)

the PNC + Robert Corbin + Black Criminals/Freedom Fighters 

were all rolled up in one.

 

CaribJ Do you agree....

jalil,

 

FYI, this exchange is between kari and redux . . . caribj is not involved

 

now, that rabbi, his (black) thugs and ex-military PNC elements were engaged in robbing and brutalizing innocent people in the kick-down-the-door era where a significant majority of victims were Indo-Guyanese there is no doubt . . . this is what criminals seizing opportunity do!

 

however, to pretend that it was therefore gov't policy to sadistically brutalize Indian people thru robbery (just because . . .?) is illogical and wicked . . . Desmond Hoyte proved that!

 

that Bharat Jagdeo and leading members of the PPP enabled drug traffickers like Roger Khan to distort the economy and Guyana law enforcement with the resulting terror, high body count and overflowing corruption is similarly not evidence that the PPP Gov't was on a genocidal mission to kill Afro-Guyanese (as some claim) . . . it points to a lot of other bad things, not that!

 

correlation is not causation . . . try to be responsible

Redux you cannot Judge PNC under Hoyte Leadership.....

with Corbin PNC, Granger PNC ....or even Forbes Burnham PNC.......

Hoyte clean up a lot in Guyana and in the PNC too.

 

When Hoyte Died....all the good he did for the PNC was buried with him.

redux, in all seriousness and being an adult, how does this help? your ignoble ass

 

Do you get a high? Did that put me in a town square where people laugh at me? Nah, all it does redux, is to show the type of person you are.

 

Now to speak rationally to your points.There is no endgame I'm pointing to. I've always been supportive of this coalition before the elections and while in government. I responded to the initial post in this thread by pointing out some truths about the 1973 elections and the psychologically and demeaning practice of Indians being used as target practice. I've had 4 choke and rob attempts on my in the 70s with knives, none successful. I was a vigilante in Tiger Bay/Cummingsburg area. I was in prison twice. I was in the upper echelons of the PNC government (not the ruling tier mind you) when these things were happening. I was close to Desmond Hoyte, so you do not have to lecture me about what he did.

 

What exactly are you defending here, redux? Pick the proper fight. I did not chastise this government, but merely ask questions about the initial post. What does the Jagdeo criminal enterprise have to do with something that preceded it by 3 decades? The 70s happened before the oughts, remember?

 

If you wish to engage me, be a little less obnoxious and bring some smarts to the table; but Ii won't hold my breath.

caribny, I'm not sure when you were psychologically abused, but man ya gotta let go of this "Bad Blackman, good coolieman" thing when people are having a discourse about the history of Guyana. Let me help you out here. I did not speak ill of the Blackman in this thread. I addressed the 1973 elections and the unprecedented presence of soldiers (and I did not even address hijacking of the ballot boxes, to which I was a witness and got teargassed for it); and the kick-down-the-door banditry. I addressed these in the context of the leader of our nation who wrote something. He need not have written anything and no one would have called him out for those two discrepancies he failed to mention. It's about a leader, in the same manner as we scrutinize Trump, Carson and Hillary here - leadership. Please speak ot these things and not the blackman bad thingie.

redux, redux, redux.......kick-down-the-door banditry during the Burnham Presidency is not this is what criminals seizing opportunity do!

 

Nah, nah, nah.....there was a dimension to it that involved the government ENABLING such "opportunity" as you so generously put it.

 

And where od you go off on hyperbole and wild exaggeration about  anyone saying "gov't policy to sadistically brutalize Indian people thru robbery".

 

Top borrow one of your refrain, SMFH

Kari....

Ravi Dev Drill Racism

in a few of these fellas head.....

 

and dem get Basadee

and cant let go of

da Jihaji Umbilical cord.

well, make your case nah . . .  i called you out hours ago and all u doing is mumbling ominously and farting

 

everybady waiting

OI kari, I hear somebody say how you fartin ominously and you doin some serious mumblin' is wuh you been eatin lately?

i called you out hours ago.... 

?????????????? 

Picture perfect definition of delusional.

 

hehehehe....

 

mumbling ominously......very Stormy-esque....

 

lamb vindaloo.....oooooo

Dat lamb gonna bite yo ass on the way out when u go visit the loo.  OWWWWWWW!!!!!

Your screams are about what the PNC (blackman) did to Indians.  Reading your rant one would never think that the PPP (Indians) ever did anything bad to blacks.

 

If you wish objective analysis on this topic you CANNOT just pretend as if only one side was guilty.  During the PPP era thugs killed blacks, and some of them might actually have been innocent.

 

So next time you want PNC (blackman) to apologize to Indians, do NOT expect that unless you similarly exert PPP (Indians) to apologize to blacks.

 

You are being very disingenuous when you highlight 1973 and not also the period when Jagdeo's goons were attacking and injury and even killing hundreds of blacks!  In fact we now even have the spectacle of Teixeira and Gajraj suing each other. 

And Kari please don't be so silly to think that one can see the PPP or the PNC independent of their support bases.

 

Why have these parties survived for almost 60years?  Good governance?    Guyana is a laughing stock of the world, and that is when people, who know much about Nevis, and Union Island, even know that Guyana exists.

 

Articles written on virtually every other Caribbean country are written with respect.  We get the NYT writing about rotting corpses in our burial grounds.

 

So why are these cretins still in power? The PPP because Indians want protection against Africans. The PNC because Africans wish protection against Indians.

 

Let us see why you do not make similar demands of the PPP. Because you know full well that if the PPP apologizes to blacks for excluding them for 23 years, and for engaging in extrajudicial assaults on them, this will be interpreted as Indians apologizing to blacks. 

 

This will imply that Indians have something to apologize about, which you vociferously deny, as you seek to avoid all discussions of Indian racism.  Even though you claim not to be a PPP supporter you don't demand that the PPP apologize, even as you demand that Granger must apologize.

 

Kari, Granger will apologize AFTER Jagdeo does so.  Jagdeo's racist crimes are a good deal more recent than 1973, and therefore impact more people alive and living in Guyana in 2015!