ksazma posted:

Maybe. There is still too much animosity and especially distrust amongst the people of Guyana.

So the Guyanese public is present and accounted for, just distracted with animosity and distrust?

antabanta posted:

Drugb posted:

There are degrees of objectivity. 

What are the degrees of objectivity and how is that relevant to bias for one political party or another?

We all make decisions based on the lesser of the evils. Right now it looks like there is no lesser of any evils. What choice do the people have two parties looking to fill their collective pockets. Good thing druggie don't live deh. 

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

Maybe. There is still too much animosity and especially distrust amongst the people of Guyana.

So the Guyanese public is present and accounted for, just distracted with animosity and distrust?

I think it is not as simple as that. It seems that there are competing issues facing the people living in Guyana and they may be opting for the ones of least resistance. Whatever it is, Guyanese seems to just go with the flow. Maybe they think it is their best option.

Drugb posted:

We all make decisions based on the lesser of the evils. 

Nothing to do with degrees of objectivity.

ksazma posted:

I think it is not as simple as that. It seems that there are competing issues facing the people living in Guyana and they may be opting for the ones of least resistance. Whatever it is, Guyanese seems to just go with the flow. Maybe they think it is their best option.

Competing issues would be prioritized based on their subjective importance, not based on least resistance.

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

I think it is not as simple as that. It seems that there are competing issues facing the people living in Guyana and they may be opting for the ones of least resistance. Whatever it is, Guyanese seems to just go with the flow. Maybe they think it is their best option.

Competing issues would be prioritized based on their subjective importance, not based on least resistance.

Prioritizing based on their subjective importance just may be what is the least resistant in Guyana. I don’t think people there have the time to waste on political matters.

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

ksazma posted:

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

Brother Kaz, GNI is where the political wastage exists. You hit the nail on the head, most Guyanese don’t waste their time on politics. 

ksazma posted:

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

Interest in politics is not a waste of time because political decisions impact daily life in multiple ways. 

yuji22 posted:

ksazma posted:

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

Brother Kaz, GNI is where the political wastage exists. You hit the nail on the head, most Guyanese don’t waste their time on politics. 

This might be hard for you to understand but that's a part of the problem. Stop letting your fingers move on the keyboard without any impulse from your brain.

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

Interest in politics is not a waste of time because political decisions impact daily life in multiple ways. 

No doubt we are all affected by political decisions. Unfortunately many folks in Guyana seem resigned to the conclusion that political matters are out of their control. So they choose to use their energies to provide for themselves and their families.

ksazma posted:

 

Guyanese are not like those other islands. Guyanese generally stay planted in their respective camps. They will talk but they will not be capable or willing to sacrifice for the best solution. Plus Guyanese don't trust each others enough to form alliances across the board for any general protest against the system. Notice I use the word system as opposed to party as there are no innocent political parties in Guyana. Seeking international intervention does not mean seeking a return to colonial rule.

OK so Guyana starts off with a disadvantage that Barbados doesn't have and that it is culturally diverse.  But then that is also a strength because it is a known fact that culturally diverse societies are more dynamic and innovative.  Compare NYC with more monolithic cities in the hinterland, or London and Paris with cities in Eastern Europe.

The problem is that Guyanese don't like ourselves.  We have allowed ourselves to be destroyed by our politicians because of our tribalism.  Not only do we not trust each other across tribal lines but WITHIN the tribe we don't either.

I laugh when I read Indos saying that Afros are more unified.  I do because Afros say ditto about Indos. So my take is that neither are unified and are mobilized only by fear and insecurity.

This is why islanders call us "Mudheads" because we are stuck in that deep and hostile mud that we encounter across much of Guyana.  Stubborn as hell as we refuse to fix our problems. Pathetic as hell as we whine for others to do so!

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

 

That's why we need to keep plugging away without all the racial prejudice which is nothing but a distraction.

The racial prejudice isn't because Guyanese are racist.  When you look at countries where there are two different groups with different outlooks generally there is ongoing civil war.  

Few Guyanese alive have vivid memories of the 60s so that isn't what informs their view.  Our ethnic angst is because we don't trust our institutions to be fair and then we add the issue of ethnic exclusion on top of the ongoing corruption, nepotism and incompetence and both the PPP and the PNC have been guilty, and now the AFC as well.

The funny thing is even as we have our "race wars" on GNI I bet if we met in person we would be quite cordial and might even enjoy each other's company.

Two scenarios.  And African finds that his land was stolen by a rich man who happens to be Indian.  Was this theft based on race?   No.  It was based on greed and corruption and vulnerability.  But it will be seen through the prism of race.  If it happened under the PPP it would validate that "dem collie control every ting and dem can do what dey want".  If it happens now then the feeling is "I vote fuh de coalition and dem aint doing nutting to help me".

There will be no focus on the fact that Afros have also stolen land from other Afros and this happened under the PPP and I bet still occurs.

I can invent scenarios that involve Afro abuse of people who happen to be Indo, such as corruption by the police or customs officers.  If it happens now an Indo will wail that "black man abusing we and me want Jagdeo back".  If it happened under the PPP wailing would be "dem blackman so bad dat even when we in power dem still abuse we and de PPP don't do nutting".

And of course Indos abuse Indos during the PPP era and still do so now.

But that is how race is perceived in Guyana.  It is not neighbors fighting each other because they hate their race.  I doubt that too many weddings or funerals occur in GY with only one race in attendance.

Drugb posted:

 

How is it that saru/socu/sara were unable after 4 years to jail 1 single ppp after scrutinizing all available evidence? You would imagine there would be an obvious paper trail. I was waiting with bated breath for them to jail the ppp crooks, but no avail. 

For the same reasons that the PPP couldn't jail any PNC official for condoning violence even though you and they screamed "blackman a kill ahbe".  Were any PNC leadership arrested for the murder of Sat Sawh and many others?  No, but you will still blame the PNC for that incident and others.

antabanta posted:

 

 Racism is an artificial problem created by specific individuals or groups to establish their own personal base to pursue their own personal, self-serving agenda.

It would shock you to know how many private deals between Indo PPP leaders and Afro PNC leaders occurred under Jagdeo.  Do you know that a certain Indo PPP leader, who fled GY after the PPP lost, calls GY with arrogance demanding his share of some corrupt deal that originated under Jagdeo? And I bet he gets at least some of the proceeds.

Racism in GY is a complex issue and all sorts of "alliances" are made out of mutual interest.  Certain Afro PNC ministers advocate for certain Indo business interests in exchange for "contributions to their retirement fund".

We already know of the multiracial nature of Roger Khan's goon squads who acted as mercenaries for assorted Indo business oligarchs.

yuji22 posted:

ksazma posted:

I only know a very few people in Guyana and I don’t get the impression that they waste their time on politics.

Brother Kaz, GNI is where the political wastage exists. You hit the nail on the head, most Guyanese don’t waste their time on politics. 

And whenever the election occurs 60% of them will rush out and vote for the tribe.

caribny posted:

antabanta posted:

 

 Racism is an artificial problem created by specific individuals or groups to establish their own personal base to pursue their own personal, self-serving agenda.

It would shock you to know how many private deals between Indo PPP leaders and Afro PNC leaders occurred under Jagdeo.  Do you know that a certain Indo PPP leader, who fled GY after the PPP lost, calls GY with arrogance demanding his share of some corrupt deal that originated under Jagdeo? And I bet he gets at least some of the proceeds.

Racism in GY is a complex issue and all sorts of "alliances" are made out of mutual interest.  Certain Afro PNC ministers advocate for certain Indo business interests in exchange for "contributions to their retirement fund".

We already know of the multiracial nature of Roger Khan's goon squads who acted as mercenaries for assorted Indo business oligarchs.

Thank you for dictating what would shock me. Once again, you rant and rave without contributing any worthy thought. I am positive I know more about Guyana than you ever will.

caribny posted:

antabanta posted:

ksazma posted:

 

That's why we need to keep plugging away without all the racial prejudice which is nothing but a distraction.

The racial prejudice isn't because Guyanese are racist.  When you look at countries where there are two different groups with different outlooks generally there is ongoing civil war.  

Few Guyanese alive have vivid memories of the 60s so that isn't what informs their view.  Our ethnic angst is because we don't trust our institutions to be fair and then we add the issue of ethnic exclusion on top of the ongoing corruption, nepotism and incompetence and both the PPP and the PNC have been guilty, and now the AFC as well.

The funny thing is even as we have our "race wars" on GNI I bet if we met in person we would be quite cordial and might even enjoy each other's company.

Two scenarios.  And African finds that his land was stolen by a rich man who happens to be Indian.  Was this theft based on race?   No.  It was based on greed and corruption and vulnerability.  But it will be seen through the prism of race.  If it happened under the PPP it would validate that "dem collie control every ting and dem can do what dey want".  If it happens now then the feeling is "I vote fuh de coalition and dem aint doing nutting to help me".

There will be no focus on the fact that Afros have also stolen land from other Afros and this happened under the PPP and I bet still occurs.

I can invent scenarios that involve Afro abuse of people who happen to be Indo, such as corruption by the police or customs officers.  If it happens now an Indo will wail that "black man abusing we and me want Jagdeo back".  If it happened under the PPP wailing would be "dem blackman so bad dat even when we in power dem still abuse we and de PPP don't do nutting".

And of course Indos abuse Indos during the PPP era and still do so now.

But that is how race is perceived in Guyana.  It is not neighbors fighting each other because they hate their race.  I doubt that too many weddings or funerals occur in GY with only one race in attendance.

Can you summarize into three sentences, no more than fifteen words each?