Why H2H as the only way to harvest a list for fair elections is false.

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Former Member

Please add to it. for those of you who disagree, you can start your own list of reasons for H2H.

I will use the points contributed that I think is valid and write a post around it and create a thread for dissenters to comment on it.

My list to start. Cut this list and add your contributions to it in your new post.

1. No constitutional edicts demands H2H
2. H2H creates a "bloated list" by including people who do not vote.
3. The franchise is voluntary. Only people who care to register voluntary should be on the list.
4 The authenticity of any H2H list relies on government selected and trained canvassers and the PNC is known for creative list making.
5. The data collected in the hands of the unscrupulous can be used to model the elections before hand. They 30% or so nonvoting individuals to use to pad the elections and no audit can uncover their fraud.
6. GECOM is constitutionally mandated to carry out continuous registration and maintain an updated list ready to deliver an election in 90 days from any drop dead
7 Established democracies the world over do not use H2H registration to harvest a voter file. They deliver free and fair elections from voluntary registration of electors.

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Former Member

8 It is an unnecessary expenditure for a country that is cash strapped and other areas of operations being able to better utilize those funds.

9 It places an undue burden on the constitutional requirement to hold elections within 90 days of the proper passage of a NCM and given how equally the country is divided, there will definitely have other NCMs and this Coalition is setting a very dangerous precedent.

7/25/198:15 PM

Former Member

10 The Coalition is making themselves look like subverters which will cause people around the world to see them in a negative light. They are cheating themselves of real legitimacy.

7/25/198:32 PM

Former Member

Just reconfirming that ...

there is no laws/requirements for house-to-house registration.

Continuous registration became the law on August 04, 2005.

One may note that this process of continuous registration is adopted/used by numerous other countries for a very long time.

7/25/199:02 PM

Bibi HaniffaGNI Queen

Demerara_Guy posted:
Just reconfirming that ...
there is no laws/requirements for house-to-house registration.
Continuous registration became the law on August 04, 2005.
One may note that this process of continuous registration is adopted/used by numerous other countries for a very long time.

For this reason there was no H2H registration the last three elections.

7/25/199:42 PM

Former Member

House to house registration has historically been a recipe for protracted delay

Stabroek News

Dear Editor,

The Carter Center Report entitled “Observing Guyana’s Electoral Process, 1990-1992” and published on its website is extremely important and instructive as the debate and battle over the house to house registration exercise rages. Coming out of the report (pages 19-27) the following points are important to note vis a vis house to house registration and the delay in holding an election:

All political sides agreed to a new house to house registration process.

Consequently, Parliament passed a Constitutional amendment extending the life of Parliament and government beyond the date of its scheduled dissolution (February 2nd 1991) but not to exceed Sept. 30th 1991.

After the House to House registration exercise and the Preliminary Voters List was produced and checked for accuracy, it was discovered that there were “a large number of duplicate names and more than 50,000 eligible voters missing from the list”.

It was not until Sept 28th, 1991 – just two days before the deadline to dissolve Parliament – that the Elections Commission produced a voters list for elections. This was three months later than the date that Ronald Jacobs, the Commissioner for national registration, had promised.

Upon the Elections Commission notifying the President that the list was produced, President Hoyte dissolved Parliament for elections to be held in three months (by Dec 28th, 1991).

An in-house computer analysis of the voters list found an error rate of 35% but the list was nonetheless published with the hope that the Claims and Objections exercise would be sufficient to rectify the voters list.

With the prospect of a publicly announced December 16th, 1991, election, the Council of Freely Elected Heads of Government sent a delegation led by former Costa Rican President Rodrigo Carazo and conducted an exhaustive evaluation of the voters list and concluded that the list was “seriously flawed” with a very high rate of errors.

Despite all efforts by the Elections Commission to rectify the voters list for the scheduled December 1991 election, Rudy Collins, the Chairman of the Elections Commission wrote to President Hoyte on the 20th November, 1991 to advise that the final list of electors would not be ready in order to meet a December 1991 election.

President Hoyte on the 28th November, 1991, announced the postponement of elections and recalled Parliament on the 3rd December, 1991, to extend the life of Parliament and government until a new final voters list was completed but not later than the 30th Sept. 1992.

From January 1992 to May 1992 the Elections Commission was engaged in the process of producing a new list. Even after the list was completed, there remained several problems with the list, including a large number of names that had incorrect ID numbers or none whatsoever, and a large number of names placed in incorrect electoral divisions. These problems took several additional months to correct.

On the 10th August, 1992, the Elections Commission Chairman informed President Hoyte that the Final List of electors was completed and on Aug 29th 1992, President Hoyte dissolved Parliament for elections to be held on Oct 5th 1992.

This experience with house to house registration has historically shown that it is a recipe for protracted delay and in light of the three-month Constitutional requirement for an election upon the successful passage of a no confidence motion and the Caribbean Court of Justice ruling that all (including GECOM) are bound by the provisions of the Constitution, the house to house registration exercise should not be pursued.

Yours faithfully,

Charles S. Ramson

7/29/199:05 AM

Former Member

A compromise on the voters list

Stabroek News 1 day ago

Dear Editor,

With a chair now in the hot seat, there has to be rapid advancing through the pressurized learning curve of the burning issues on the table before Gecom, if only to recover some of the lost time. As I see it, the hottest coal that has to be dealt with in a frank, fair, and forceful manner is the disposition of the list of eligible voters.

From a commonsense standpoint, there are three possible approaches through which to tackle the ongoing, unmoving bone-in-the-throat matter of a list. The first approach is to move forward with the existing list, as has been insisted upon by the opposition. I have a serious problem with any clean, any reasonably honest, list that identifies approximately 85% of the whole population as eligible voters. This simply does not make statistical sense, or circumstantial sense, or good old commonsense. For certainty, it makes for convenient and partisan political sense to push forward (loudly and unequivocally) for Gecom to declare the current list operative. If I were the opposition, that would be my unswerving position, especially given what is known and feared about its base and leakages, and given the now slim to almost nonexistent demographic advantages. If I am the opposition that would be my immovable public posture, as untenable as it stands in its lack of resonance and in the teeth of all the unanswerable questions that are raised.

The second option for Gecom to chew on is to go to the other extreme and pursue as near as a perfect list as can be had, through comprehensive house-to-house registration. This would be coming rather closely-perhaps unwisely so-to the government’s position and vision. In this instance, if I am the president, that would be the sweet music of a hallelujah moment. Now speaking as a private citizen (and not as an admitted government supporter) I can only associate with what I consider an honest and realistic list, insofar as circumstances permit. I had to affix that pivotal qualifier.

It is because circumstances, as they are currently, may not permit an absolute overhaul of the existing list. Now before proceeding ahead, I seek the sidebar of a quick departure. As shared in a recent writing, a short time (less than an hour) after the consensus chair was announced, the registration folks from Gecom came to my home to do their work. I probed and learned three things: the last registration was in 2013 (repeatedly questioned, repeatedly confirmed orally); continuous domestic residence of one year is mandatory for registration; and there is a fine and/or imprisonment for failure to register. Me being me, I recommended that the fine be dropped; keep the jail time. Also, six years since the last registration is a long time demographically; appearance, practicality, and decency demand a different list. Hence, I say proceed with a revised list, which brings to the third option (in some shape or form) in front of Gecom.

The third option, however, must incorporate the compromise of an intensified approach (quicker), a lesser net (of registered), and more people and cash. It has to be some combination of these three elements, with an eye to timing, registration numbers, and corresponding resource appropriation, through still another compromise –parliament. Both sides give up something to get somewhere (travel lighter, smarter, better) if the paramount interest is to obtain an authentic process and list on which all can accept and rely. Authentic process and list, as well as accept and rely are dangerous words in political Guyana, but they have to be the compelling objectives.

It goes without saying that all of this calls for great statesmanship and the highest ideals of patriotism: the richness of country first as against the ugliness of party and power first. I am for a compromise third option. If the visions and accompanying spirit and strategies are about bona fide lists and elections, then there is high likelihood that the related results will stand any filter from any source. I cannot think of how any leader or any group could find fault with working together to narrow the distance on list and date, through agreeing to the third option, under the auspices of a cautious, determined, and decisive Gecom.

Editor, I submit that whatever compromising forces and goals incentivized movement on a chair could just as well apply to that of a list. The calendar is open. It must not be allowed to stay that way for too long

Yours faithfully,

GHK Lall

7/29/199:06 AM

Former Member

Please archive any document you see of interest to the pros and cons of H2H on this thread. It will be good reading in the future.

I noticed no other person added their reasons why we should not have H2H. That means you are satisfied it is good for us I guess.

7/29/199:08 AM

Former Member

The list as it stands why we should not have H2H

8 It is an unnecessary expenditure for a country that is cash strapped and other areas of operations being able to better utilize those funds.

10 The Coalition is making themselves look like subverters which will cause people around the world to see them in a negative light. They are cheating themselves of real legitimacy.

7/29/199:11 AM

Former Member

The scenario shown above regarding the H2H registration showed that even after three attempts over a nearly two years span, the list was still not reliable. Similarly, there is no guarantee that this one will be any more reliable.

7/29/191:24 PM

Former Member

Stormborn posted:

7 Established democracies the world over do not use H2H registration to harvest a voter file. They deliver free and fair elections from voluntary registration of electors.

In NYC after every election there are screams about who wasn't on the voters' list so had to vote with an affidavit, which was then thrown out as invalid, so not counted.

This is in NYC supposedly a major global center. In Guyana where few transactions can be done online and often require lengthy waits to confront angry civil servants who are enraged as they see their bosses become wealthy through graft, while they struggle to feed their kids.

Jagdeo screamed for an H2H in 2015. Ask him what happened, other than "oil money" and the return of RK which precipitates his rush.

Of all of the priorities in December 2018 having an NCV wasn't one of them.

7/30/195:03 PM

Former Member

Demerara_Guy posted:
Just reconfirming that ...
there is no laws/requirements for house-to-house registration.
Continuous registration became the law on August 04, 2005.
One may note that this process of continuous registration is adopted/used by numerous other countries for a very long time.

So why in 2015 did Jagdeo scream that a H2H was needed? Apparently he didn't "continuously register".

7/30/195:04 PM

Former Member

In the US, many people who are not registered are so because they are just too lazy or couldn't be bothered to be registered. Heck, may of them who are registered can't even be bothered to vote even if all it will take is placing a postage paid ballot in their mailbox.

The PNC record is their practice of disenfranchising citizens. Anything they do now would be for the same purpose.

7/30/197:23 PM

Former Member

caribny posted:
Stormborn posted:

7 Established democracies the world over do not use H2H registration to harvest a voter file. They deliver free and fair elections from voluntary registration of electors.

In NYC after every election there are screams about who wasn't on the voters' list so had to vote with an affidavit, which was then thrown out as invalid, so not counted.
This is in NYC supposedly a major global center. In Guyana where few transactions can be done online and often require lengthy waits to confront angry civil servants who are enraged as they see their bosses become wealthy through graft, while they struggle to feed their kids.
Jagdeo screamed for an H2H in 2015. Ask him what happened, other than "oil money" and the return of RK which precipitates his rush.
Of all of the priorities in December 2018 having an NCV wasn't one of them.

Screams of voter suppression ( more real than illegals voting) are not the same thing nor does inefficiencies at the polls. Also, I do not care what Jagdeo screamed about. If you categorized is as screaming it means you disagree. Well kudos. I do also. H2H is not necessary in a modern democracy. It builds a list of electors who do not care and never will exercise the franchise. In our society where these become known in a H2H, it opens the system to fraud. The APNU through their historical progenitor PNC have a well established provenance in cheating at the elections. Many of the principals of that era of rampant electorate fraud are in the current APNU including Granger who was part of the enforcement detail for the regime. They will cheat their asses off if you hand them the opportunity on a platter. And the stakes are monumentally higher this time. The state as a prize means instant mega fortunes for the elites of the party and the rise of their ethnic group as the sybarite class.

7/31/199:53 AM

Bibi HaniffaGNI Queen

caribny posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:
Just reconfirming that ...
there is no laws/requirements for house-to-house registration.
Continuous registration became the law on August 04, 2005.
One may note that this process of continuous registration is adopted/used by numerous other countries for a very long time.
So why in 2015 did Jagdeo scream that a H2H was needed? Apparently he didn't "continuously register".

This is incorrect information. H2H was not conducted for the last three elections. And Jagdeo is not a screamer.

7/31/1910:15 AM

Former Member

Bibi Haniffa posted:
caribny posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:
Just reconfirming that ...
there is no laws/requirements for house-to-house registration.
Continuous registration became the law on August 04, 2005.
One may note that this process of continuous registration is adopted/used by numerous other countries for a very long time.
So why in 2015 did Jagdeo scream that a H2H was needed? Apparently he didn't "continuously register".
This is incorrect information. H2H was not conducted for the last three elections. And Jagdeo is not a screamer.

On day Cribby will end up in an ambulance with a busted blood vessel because of worrying about Jagdeo. he blames Jagdeo for all Guyana's miseries. He didn't realize it started under his hero Farbes.

7/31/1910:44 AM