Stormborn posted:

You are a mal educated ignoramus or you would know the majority of the states on the planet are recent creations ( since the idea of countries are only about 200 years old) The national welfare state paradigm instituted in the late 18 century sought ways to bring competing groups together so they can trust each other and co exist in the state and foster a communal nationalism.

The history of the US from colonial times have been trying to craft as they say a more perfect union.  The articles of confederation then its constitution and supporting documents rationalizing this process ( some 85 federalist papers) detailed a process of creating a new and different human community from a plurality of people identified by class, race, religion and creed. Each time some impediment to communal well being occurs there is auto-correction and with often crafting of new strategies. The civilrights act of '64 got you here. Previous to that you would be at the back of the bus.

We have no such seminal document fostering a communitarian co existence. We have no political party aiding in crafting a summoning creed. The result is proliferation of vile racist nutcases that exist here on this board for example and those insular nits like you who are hopelessly lost and bereft of any idea community while organic is guided by systems of organizing. 

This is the reason why some folks consider you a howard grad, a buffoon. Now you on to the great US comparing it to a shyte hole country with a totally different origin of its issues. 

To date, no govt has successfully legislated an end to discrimination.  In US there still exists ethnic neighborhoods and great divide, despite housing fairness acts, brown vs board of ed, civil rights movement etc.  Look how Trump got elected when we thought this will never happen. Buffoons like yourself will sit on your perch in the west and dictate to the people of Guyana and try to ram solutions down their throat.

Lets get real, once afro/indo guyanese migrate, they immediately diverge into differing neighborhoods/communities and life styles.  This proves that given free will, these two groups will prefer separation. Why do you think that you can force them to like each other?

Drugb posted:

Stormborn posted:

You are a mal educated ignoramus or you would know the majority of the states on the planet are recent creations ( since the idea of countries are only about 200 years old) The national welfare state paradigm instituted in the late 18 century sought ways to bring competing groups together so they can trust each other and co exist in the state and foster a communal nationalism.

The history of the US from colonial times have been trying to craft as they say a more perfect union.  The articles of confederation then its constitution and supporting documents rationalizing this process ( some 85 federalist papers) detailed a process of creating a new and different human community from a plurality of people identified by class, race, religion and creed. Each time some impediment to communal well being occurs there is auto-correction and with often crafting of new strategies. The civilrights act of '64 got you here. Previous to that you would be at the back of the bus.

We have no such seminal document fostering a communitarian co existence. We have no political party aiding in crafting a summoning creed. The result is proliferation of vile racist nutcases that exist here on this board for example and those insular nits like you who are hopelessly lost and bereft of any idea community while organic is guided by systems of organizing. 

This is the reason why some folks consider you a howard grad, a buffoon. Now you on to the great US comparing it to a shyte hole country with a totally different origin of its issues. 

To date, no govt has successfully legislated an end to discrimination.  In US there still exists ethnic neighborhoods and great divide, despite housing fairness acts, brown vs board of ed, civil rights movement etc.  Look how Trump got elected when we thought this will never happen. Buffoons like yourself will sit on your perch in the west and dictate to the people of Guyana and try to ram solutions down their throat.

Lets get real, once afro/indo guyanese migrate, they immediately diverge into differing neighborhoods/communities and life styles.  This proves that given free will, these two groups will prefer separation. Why do you think that you can force them to like each other?

 As I often say, Howard seeded the soul of this country and has its men and women in more places on this planet than any other country. And I also did go to a top ten school if that ever matters.

One is not comparing the US to anyplace. One is examining the need for strong systems to create institutional fences to ethnic greed. Our state is an ethnic prize and it is so because the executive is put in place by an ethnic base and that executive is essentially a dictator. This means one half of the population is always shut out....given our national ethnic demographics. I am sure taking seven years to get out of undergrad was not incidental for you. You have a concrete head.

To date, every democratic country on the planet operates under the idea of social contract theory...ie the citizens formulate a contract with an agency it creates called the government and that government is obliged to function at the countract details. This contract exists in the form of historical precedence as in brittain and as formal constitutions in most of the democratic world. These documents  are or should be created by the people to express their community desire. This principle assumes that humans are not doomed to short, brutish, and hasty Hobbesean lives but more according to an enlightenment creed where we can aspire to be  our better selves because that is our nature.  

You are confused about the minutia and not the general principles that each of our existing group aspire for more than they have. We have never had a truly democratic government. Our constitution was not developed by us but by a dictator and it is as it is useless for community building. It was cobbled together by essentially two people, none constitutional scholars and foisted on us by a rigged referendum. It does not take into reality that without elected representatives in a true republic we are subject to the whims of an executive with absolute power. Add the race component and we are in a political trap. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. That our people want space to breath and live lives in a society where merit trumps nepotism is the aspiration of all. That can only grow organically if the political system fosters it. Ours does not.

any man, indian, black, chinee, putagee, native or any race, all dey want is a good woman to hug up with, respectful children, the freedom to be at peace in his space and a belly full as he lay down to sleep without the fear of being aroused by a bandit wid cutlass and gun at he head.

For that, Guyana needs excellent leadership-a righteous man. Attitudes cannot be legislated but good example and mentorship goes a very very long way.  

seignet posted:

any man, indian, black, chinee, putagee, native or any race, all dey want is a good woman to hug up with, respectful children, the freedom to be at peace in his space and a belly full as he lay down to sleep without the fear of being aroused by a bandit wid cutlass and gun at he head.

For that, Guyana needs excellent leadership-a righteous man. Attitudes cannot be legislated but good example and mentorship goes a very very long way.  

Spot on.  The only thing I want to be aroused by, is an equally aroused woman!!

seignet posted:

any man, indian, black, chinee, putagee, native or any race, all dey want is a good woman to hug up with, respectful children, the freedom to be at peace in his space and a belly full as he lay down to sleep without the fear of being aroused by a bandit wid cutlass and gun at he head.

For that, Guyana needs excellent leadership-a righteous man. Attitudes cannot be legislated but good example and mentorship goes a very very long way.  

The idea of a righteous man, sainted elder, wise guru or charismatic persona in a leader is being Diogenes with a lamp looking for an honest man. We need a system first that predicates how we see ourselves and our desires being translated to demands about  how elected leaders respond to our needs.

The modern world is information dense with easy access to these resources. Today, practically anyone with administrative and communication skills  can govern us. All they need is a system to select and organize their specialized helpers/ That system should have political voice and exit strategies as  structural deterrence to the rise of an oligarchy or strong man rule for eons. 

Consequently, It should be a fully devolved, representative system where everyone can get elected by virtue of  community response to their candidacy. They should be able to do so independent of party if necessary

Bro, Guyanese have to be unlearn, learn, relearn, relearn and learn again for dem to know what is to their best interests. The country needs a teacher. So far, we have crooks, blacks ones, coolie ones and DEM PUTAGEES ones too. 

Stormborn posted:

One is not comparing the US to anyplace. One is examining the need for strong systems to create institutional fences to ethnic greed. Our state is an ethnic prize and it is so because the executive is put in place by an ethnic base and that executive is essentially a dictator. This means one half of the population is always shut out....given our national ethnic demographics. I am sure taking seven years to get out of undergrad was not incidental for you. You have a concrete head.

To date, every democratic country on the planet operates under the idea of social contract theory...ie the citizens formulate a contract with an agency it creates called the government and that government is obliged to function at the countract details. This contract exists in the form of historical precedence as in brittain and as formal constitutions in most of the democratic world. These documents  are or should be created by the people to express their community desire. This principle assumes that humans are not doomed to short, brutish, and hasty Hobbesean lives but more according to an enlightenment creed where we can aspire to be  our better selves because that is our nature.  

You are confused about the minutia and not the general principles that each of our existing group aspire for more than they have. We have never had a truly democratic government. Our constitution was not developed by us but by a dictator and it is as it is useless for community building. It was cobbled together by essentially two people, none constitutional scholars and foisted on us by a rigged referendum. It does not take into reality that without elected representatives in a true republic we are subject to the whims of an executive with absolute power. Add the race component and we are in a political trap. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. That our people want space to breath and live lives in a society where merit trumps nepotism is the aspiration of all. That can only grow organically if the political system fosters it. Ours does not.

A lot of theoretical hogwash with no clear pathway to describe how these ethnic greed fences can be built.  Laws are already being flouted as politically affiliated judges interpret the existing constitution along party lines as it benefits their ideology.  So any new laws will invariably be ignored as long as the players in decision making position continue to put party above country. 

So I would suggest that you and shoeman put together the "new" constitution that would solve all Guyana ethnic problems. 

Drugb posted:

Stormborn posted:

One is not comparing the US to anyplace. One is examining the need for strong systems to create institutional fences to ethnic greed. Our state is an ethnic prize and it is so because the executive is put in place by an ethnic base and that executive is essentially a dictator. This means one half of the population is always shut out....given our national ethnic demographics. I am sure taking seven years to get out of undergrad was not incidental for you. You have a concrete head.

To date, every democratic country on the planet operates under the idea of social contract theory...ie the citizens formulate a contract with an agency it creates called the government and that government is obliged to function at the countract details. This contract exists in the form of historical precedence as in brittain and as formal constitutions in most of the democratic world. These documents  are or should be created by the people to express their community desire. This principle assumes that humans are not doomed to short, brutish, and hasty Hobbesean lives but more according to an enlightenment creed where we can aspire to be  our better selves because that is our nature.  

You are confused about the minutia and not the general principles that each of our existing group aspire for more than they have. We have never had a truly democratic government. Our constitution was not developed by us but by a dictator and it is as it is useless for community building. It was cobbled together by essentially two people, none constitutional scholars and foisted on us by a rigged referendum. It does not take into reality that without elected representatives in a true republic we are subject to the whims of an executive with absolute power. Add the race component and we are in a political trap. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. That our people want space to breath and live lives in a society where merit trumps nepotism is the aspiration of all. That can only grow organically if the political system fosters it. Ours does not.

A lot of theoretical hogwash with no clear pathway to describe how these ethnic greed fences can be built.  Laws are already being flouted as politically affiliated judges interpret the existing constitution along party lines as it benefits their ideology.  So any new laws will invariably be ignored as long as the players in decision making position continue to put party above country. 

So I would suggest that you and shoeman put together the "new" constitution that would solve all Guyana ethnic problems. 

Stupid man, everything functions on a theory ie a paradigm that enables us to have practices  in any human endeavor.  That you do not know how these processes can be envisioned is not problematic. You are are the kinds of naysayers to be discounted.  Being stupid you can say stupid things like me and shuman are to design a new constitution. Sorry, that has always been an communal enterprise. It can only work as such.

Stormborn posted:

Drugb posted:

Stormborn posted:

One is not comparing the US to anyplace. One is examining the need for strong systems to create institutional fences to ethnic greed. Our state is an ethnic prize and it is so because the executive is put in place by an ethnic base and that executive is essentially a dictator. This means one half of the population is always shut out....given our national ethnic demographics. I am sure taking seven years to get out of undergrad was not incidental for you. You have a concrete head.

To date, every democratic country on the planet operates under the idea of social contract theory...ie the citizens formulate a contract with an agency it creates called the government and that government is obliged to function at the countract details. This contract exists in the form of historical precedence as in brittain and as formal constitutions in most of the democratic world. These documents  are or should be created by the people to express their community desire. This principle assumes that humans are not doomed to short, brutish, and hasty Hobbesean lives but more according to an enlightenment creed where we can aspire to be  our better selves because that is our nature.  

You are confused about the minutia and not the general principles that each of our existing group aspire for more than they have. We have never had a truly democratic government. Our constitution was not developed by us but by a dictator and it is as it is useless for community building. It was cobbled together by essentially two people, none constitutional scholars and foisted on us by a rigged referendum. It does not take into reality that without elected representatives in a true republic we are subject to the whims of an executive with absolute power. Add the race component and we are in a political trap. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. That our people want space to breath and live lives in a society where merit trumps nepotism is the aspiration of all. That can only grow organically if the political system fosters it. Ours does not.

A lot of theoretical hogwash with no clear pathway to describe how these ethnic greed fences can be built.  Laws are already being flouted as politically affiliated judges interpret the existing constitution along party lines as it benefits their ideology.  So any new laws will invariably be ignored as long as the players in decision making position continue to put party above country. 

So I would suggest that you and shoeman put together the "new" constitution that would solve all Guyana ethnic problems. 

Stupid man, everything functions on a theory ie a paradigm that enables us to have practices  in any human endeavor.  That you do not know how these processes can be envisioned is not problematic. You are are the kinds of naysayers to be discounted.  Being stupid you can say stupid things like me and shuman are to design a new constitution. Sorry, that has always been an communal enterprise. It can only work as such.

As I stated, you as usual are short on specifics and long on vague theories.  Let us get some substance so we can see if there is any credence to your proposals. 

Drugb posted

As I stated, you as usual are short on specifics and long on vague theories.  Let us get some substance so we can see if there is any credence to your proposals. 

this is commentary. Were you following the discussion here instead of pretending who you know carry "slopcans" you would not have missed it. I have given lots of specific details of how I think there can be possible arrangements of a devolved constitutional system. Just search the site for them.

Stormborn posted:

Drugb posted

As I stated, you as usual are short on specifics and long on vague theories.  Let us get some substance so we can see if there is any credence to your proposals. 

this is commentary. Were you following the discussion here instead of pretending who you know carry "slopcans" you would not have missed it. I have given lots of specific details of how I think there can be possible arrangements of a devolved constitutional system. Just search the site for them.

At one point you too carry pnc slopcan, then your conscience got the better of you causing you to flee their sinking ship like a rat seeking survival. Now you expect us to believe you have the solution to ethnic issues when you can't even verbalize your own theories, sending us on a wild goose chase. 

Drugb posted:

Stormborn posted:

Drugb posted

As I stated, you as usual are short on specifics and long on vague theories.  Let us get some substance so we can see if there is any credence to your proposals. 

this is commentary. Were you following the discussion here instead of pretending who you know carry "slopcans" you would not have missed it. I have given lots of specific details of how I think there can be possible arrangements of a devolved constitutional system. Just search the site for them.

At one point you too carry pnc slopcan, then your conscience got the better of you causing you to flee their sinking ship like a rat seeking survival. Now you expect us to believe you have the solution to ethnic issues when you can't even verbalize your own theories, sending us on a wild goose chase. 

Whatever slopcan you presume exist should be represented by your ignorance. I support change from the status quo. If 23 years of the PPP entrenchment offered no change, then a continued governing by these crooks only meant a calcification of their corrupt practices in the form of  complete patronage of Guyanese to the party. That had to be killed off at its root and since they would not do it the PNC was a convenient tool.  Now we have two corrupt regimes flip flopping and not allowed to sink deep tentacles into the nations blood stream.

You fail to see a problem so what would verbalizing possible solutions matter to an idiot? The reality is that every notable political figure commenting on the Guyanese offered ideas. You seem to live in your head. 20 years ago Ravi had Federalism, Dhanpaul and Tara Singh had powersharing, Hinds had his own brand of the same and on and on. You seem to miss that such conversations proliferated across these sites from hundreds of individuals. And no one would send you chasing goose. You would need to practice with chickens first.

Stormborn posted:

You fail to see a problem so what would verbalizing possible solutions matter to an idiot? The reality is that every notable political figure commenting on the Guyanese offered ideas. You seem to live in your head. 20 years ago Ravi had Federalism, Dhanpaul and Tara Singh had powersharing, Hinds had his own brand of the same and on and on. You seem to miss that such conversations proliferated across these sites from hundreds of individuals. And no one would send you chasing goose. You would need to practice with chickens first.

Only you know what is the problem and have the solution.  Attempts at forcing two very different groups, both physically and culturally, together has never worked.  Failure abound when they are even the same race, evidenced by Africa, parts of Europe, India and the middle east. You don't bring anything to the table that has not already been tried and failed. The only compromise is a tenuous peace predicated on mutual respect. 

Drugb posted:

Stormborn posted:

You fail to see a problem so what would verbalizing possible solutions matter to an idiot? The reality is that every notable political figure commenting on the Guyanese offered ideas. You seem to live in your head. 20 years ago Ravi had Federalism, Dhanpaul and Tara Singh had powersharing, Hinds had his own brand of the same and on and on. You seem to miss that such conversations proliferated across these sites from hundreds of individuals. And no one would send you chasing goose. You would need to practice with chickens first.

Only you know what is the problem and have the solution.  Attempts at forcing two very different groups, both physically and culturally, together has never worked.  Failure abound when they are even the same race, evidenced by Africa, parts of Europe, India and the middle east. You don't bring anything to the table that has not already been tried and failed. The only compromise is a tenuous peace predicated on mutual respect. 

You are straight up a dummy. You are here in the US because someone else fought and saw to it a methodology was in place to accommodate you. Practically every country on the planet are non homogeneous society and their primary social contract binds them together,

The success of De-conflicting a society and transforming it has happened to every successful polity.  Belgium and its cantons, Sweden, Ireland and to be precise, the whole of the EU under the consociational Maastrich Treaty. 

The same is the case from Thailand, to Vietnam, to Madagascar to Singapore. Indian itself was never a unitary state and is holding together hundreds of cultural groups in a hybrid federal parlaimentary system with special dispensations to those of the tribal belt. Canada itself once on the verge of being fractured into two is now a unitary state because they fabricated rules to address the needs of the comflicted groups.

Just open you eyes and look and everywhere on the planet there are conflict transformation happening because rules developed for exactly that, transforming adversarial groups.

Stormborn posted:

You are straight up a dummy. You are here in the US because someone else fought and saw to it a methodology was in place to accommodate you. Practically every country on the planet are non homogeneous society and their primary social contract binds them together,

The success of De-conflicting a society and transforming it has happened to every successful polity.  Belgium and its cantons, Sweden, Ireland and to be precise, the whole of the EU under the consociational Maastrich Treaty. 

The same is the case from Thailand, to Vietnam, to Madagascar to Singapore. Indian itself was never a unitary state and is holding together hundreds of cultural groups in a hybrid federal parlaimentary system with special dispensations to those of the tribal belt. Canada itself once on the verge of being fractured into two is now a unitary state because they fabricated rules to address the needs of the comflicted groups.

Just open you eyes and look and everywhere on the planet there are conflict transformation happening because rules developed for exactly that, transforming adversarial groups.

That howard education got you gerrymandering all over the place. Being in a country does not mean all is well with race relations and opportunity for all. Look at yourself as an example, you ran as far away from Guyanese as you could, yet you feel that you are the authority on telling them how to solve their problems. 

By the same token Guyana is functioning as it is and is still one state. You debate like a dummy, throwing random ramblings with no correlation to the topic at hand, how to solve Guyana's issues.