Yes, he won fair and square!!

This Jack Vish needs to be taught that the USA has an electoral college system.

Who is that chap Vish again ?

yuji22 posted:

This Jack Vish needs to be taught that the USA has an electoral college system.

Who is that chap Vish again ?

Dunce!!

*******s!

That is Election 101!

The protest is about the numbers.

This is the flaw in our democracy.

I can run the numbers for you in MATH

yuji22 posted:

This Jack Vish needs to be taught that the USA has an electoral college system.

Who is that chap Vish again ?

its a different Vish   

Vish M posted:

*******s!

That is Election 101!

The protest is about the numbers.

This is the flaw in our democracy.

I can run the numbers for you in MATH

 

You are a fool. Shut up and go fix Guyana flawed democracy, or are you afraid of PNC goons!

The protestors cannot make up the rules along the way.  It's not the first time the popular vote and the winner is in opposite directions!!

America does not have a national election, they hold 50 state elections and the states decide how the votes are awarded!  Go argue with the 50 states!

Hurray to Donald Trump!!

If Hillary won the electoral college, but lost the national vote there would have been no cries from the Hillary partisans.

Hillary lost. She ran a flawed campaign so get over it.  Assess whats wrong with the Democratic party why they lost in states that they had been winning over the past 20 years!

Her messaging didn't suit the Midwest voter. Rendell warned that there was a closet Trump vote in PA, which meant also in MI and WI. Rather than address ths concerns Hillary ran after the "Nasty Woman" vote.

Trump was he worst candidate to run since Barry Goldwater. Why in an era when the USA was way more bigoted than it is today did Hillary have such a tough just dispatching Trump. She was out of touch, pure and simple.

Please add any update 

When the Hillary partisans were confident that she could win the electoral college they were fine with this system.

Now that California provided the large number of votes (without this she would not be in the lead) they scream something else.

If they didn't want the electoral college then they should have tried to change it LONG AGO!  Rules are rules and the presidency in 2016 was awarded to the one who won the college.

ba$eman posted:

Yes, he won fair and square!!

Yes he did. So now he is president he will have to bring back jobs.

By March 2017 I would like to see all the closed factories humming with jobs brought back from China.  Why not as Trump is a magician.  Let us see 11 million immediately deported.

Let him tell 20 million people who have insurance through the exchanges, sorry no health insurance for you.

All of this by March 31, 2017. He will have 2 whole months to do this.

caribny posted:

When the Hillary partisans were confident that she could win the electoral college they were fine with this system.

Now that California provided the large number of votes (without this she would not be in the lead) they scream something else.

If they didn't want the electoral college then they should have tried to change it LONG AGO!  Rules are rules and the presidency in 2016 was awarded to the one who won the college.

This deficiency in the US system is well noted.  It will not change because the Republicans will never agree to it.  Not because the USA says it is a democracy means that it is a democracy.  In fact, the USA claimed that it was a democracy under segregation and slavery.  Under slavery blacks were defined as the equivalent to cattle.

Which present day Republican won the popular votes and lost the "elections"???

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

When the Hillary partisans were confident that she could win the electoral college they were fine with this system.

Now that California provided the large number of votes (without this she would not be in the lead) they scream something else.

If they didn't want the electoral college then they should have tried to change it LONG AGO!  Rules are rules and the presidency in 2016 was awarded to the one who won the college.

This deficiency in the US system is well noted.  It will not change because the Republicans will never agree to it.  Not because the USA says it is a democracy means that it is a democracy.  In fact, the USA claimed that it was a democracy under segregation and slavery.  Under slavery blacks were defined as the equivalent to cattle.

Which present day Republican won the popular votes and lost the "elections"???

 

Did Obama protest against the electoral college? No because he eked a win in the popular vote at just over 51% but had a landslide in the electoral college, 332 vs. 206. Even more lop sided than Trump's electoral win.

So no the Dems will not do so because the victor almost always has a "landslide" when measured with the electoral college.

Even you will admit that Obama much prefers to refer to his 2012 win as a landslide win of 62% of the electoral college, than eking out a win in the national vote of a mere 52%.

caribny posted:

If Hillary won the electoral college, but lost the national vote there would have been no cries from the Hillary partisans.

Hillary lost. She ran a flawed campaign so get over it.  Assess whats wrong with the Democratic party why they lost in states that they had been winning over the past 20 years!

Her messaging didn't suit the Midwest voter. Rendell warned that there was a closet Trump vote in PA, which meant also in MI and WI. Rather than address ths concerns Hillary ran after the "Nasty Woman" vote.

Trump was he worst candidate to run since Barry Goldwater. Why in an era when the USA was way more bigoted than it is today did Hillary have such a tough just dispatching Trump. She was out of touch, pure and simple.

How in the world a novice at these things knows the lady ran a flawed campaign? Why should something be wrong with the democratic party that they lost some of the northern blue states? Those states are blue only on account of the urban areas. If there is any anatomy of what went wrong is the courting of cubans in Miami/Dade instead of focusing on the small county in tampa that got flipped. But how the hell can you know these things if your polling tells you that all is well. You cannot get completely in the mind of people. They can revert to their tribal instincts easily and it seems they did. Maybe she needed to spend more time in Wisconsin but again...why?

You always seem to think you know better after the fact but you are just massaging your own pelotas needlessly. The lady did her best against terrible odds...made up stories t hat she is a crook, a mistake probed endlessly for which she was cleared and which was introduced again into the conversation late tainting the whole process. She did her best and any of those fools who turned native and followed this horrible fellow over the cliff will get what the deserve. Nothing will change in the rust belt.

Rendell like any of a hundred people always come and give advice about their particular view. It is up to campaign staff to decide which is worthy of a look. One cannot guess every thing or prepare for every contingency. She lost because of one overwhelming factor; white racism from the house wife in Philly to her son the barista.

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

When the Hillary partisans were confident that she could win the electoral college they were fine with this system.

Now that California provided the large number of votes (without this she would not be in the lead) they scream something else.

If they didn't want the electoral college then they should have tried to change it LONG AGO!  Rules are rules and the presidency in 2016 was awarded to the one who won the college.

This deficiency in the US system is well noted.  It will not change because the Republicans will never agree to it.  Not because the USA says it is a democracy means that it is a democracy.  In fact, the USA claimed that it was a democracy under segregation and slavery.  Under slavery blacks were defined as the equivalent to cattle.

Which present day Republican won the popular votes and lost the "elections"???

 

Did Obama protest against the electoral college? No because he eked a win in the popular vote at just over 51% but had a landslide in the electoral college, 332 vs. 206. Even more lop sided than Trump's electoral win.

So no the Dems will not do so because the victor almost always has a "landslide" when measured with the electoral college.

Even you will admit that Obama much prefers to refer to his 2012 win as a landslide win of 62% of the electoral college, than eking out a win in the national vote of a mere 52%.

Banna stop talking $hit.  I ain't got time to waste.

Danyael posted:

 

How in the world a novice at these things knows the lady ran a flawed campaign?

Trump won 13% of the black male vote and 30% of the Latino vote.   He also won 30% of the Asian vote.  Funny for a man who wasn't kind to any of these groups.

So why was this when these groups should have flocked to Hillary?

The bulk of the drop of the vote this year compared to 2012 was because Democrats didn't show up.  She won 6 million fewer votes than did Obama in 2012. Trump is only 1 million behind Romney levels.

While the bigots and Angry White Man definitely showed up Hillary was  unable to mobilize her base.   Trump won 53% of white females. Among those with college he did as well as she did, losing only to those with advanced degrees.  And I have already stated that he took some black and Latin votes from her.

I rest my case. Now you can continue to blame the Angry White Man, or you can attempt to figure out why the Dems didn't get their base to show up.

OOh and by the way I made these points BEFORE the election. PROOF.

Kari started a thread to embarrass me BEFORE the election, content that the results of the election would bury me. I notice that he has abandoned that thread.  Now he is fooling himself that Trump isn't going to be that bad after all.

I was mild on Monday only because you were doing a good thing by being part of the get out to vote effort. In fact you screamed at me that PA was a guaranteed win because of this GoTV effort, so I cheered you on by being nice.

Recall how often I warned you and Kari NOT to assume that she would win. BOTH of you called me a complainer, and Karu hysterically called me a Trump supporters.  I WARNED you about a Midwest surprise as the fact that these states were packed with the Angry White Man, who had abandoned Obama for Trump didn't auger well.

Listen you lost. I was right in sensing her vulnerability and the reasons why a 35% chance of a loss was likely. END of story!

Caribny,

Since only you know about black people, why did 8% vote forTrump?

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

You think Hillary won the election?  Or you just arguing for argument sake?

Bibi Haniffa posted:

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

You think Hillary won the election?  Or you just arguing for argument sake?

Democracy for me means winner of the popular votes, so there is no question who won.  I was just curious about some of the "cross over" numbers that is being tossed around.

VVP posted:

Caribny,

Since only you know about black people, why did 8% vote forTrump?

Because 13% of the black men went for Trump. If black men voted like black women then Hillary would have done as well as Obama did.

Now why did black men vote. Well Hillary focused on Trump being a sexist pig. She didn't focus on the fact that the notion of Trump bringing in jobs was a lie.

So many of these 13% (that is of those black men who even bothered to vote) envisaged well paying jobs, compliments of President Trump, a wealthy "successful" businessman.

Maybe if Hillary didn't focus on "Nasty Woman" and instead had ads with Indians and Turks making the goods that Trump buys, and not Americans. And videos with Trump screaming that Obama shouldn't have bailed out the auto industry (which still employs many blacks in the Midwest) then she wouldn't have lost 13% of the black vote to Trump.

Hillary really thought that she could win this only with the female vote. The problem is that many working class white women really do seem to hate her.

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

Black men 13% vs. 4% for Romney.

Latinos 30% vs, 22% for Romney.

Asians 30% vs, 28% for Romney.

Hillary got 6 million fewer votes than Obama did in 2012. Trump only got 1 million fewer.

You all partisans need to cease fooling yourselves that the Democratic party didn't lose because it has alienated its base, and focus instead on what it must do to win it back by the end of next year, so that it can win back the Senate, and get more seats in the House by 2018.

Yes Hillary it turns out that some Latinos hate undocumented Mexicans almost as much as Trump does. I have seen Puerto Ricans and Dominicans in NY harassing Mexicans.  I can only imagine how the more conservative of these groups living in FL, feel about this.

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

First he has to master the art of finding countries on the world map The man might end up assigning people to the wrong countries..lol

alena06 posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

First he has to master the art of finding countries on the world map The man might end up assigning people to the wrong countries..lol

He will find it on Google.  Hopefully he does not see the newly renovated Benab in GT and think that is the US embassy.  

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

Black men 13% vs. 4% for Romney.

Latinos 30% vs, 22% for Romney.

Asians 30% vs, 28% for Romney.

Hillary got 6 million fewer votes than Obama did in 2012. Trump only got 1 million fewer.

You all partisans need to cease fooling yourselves that the Democratic party didn't lose because it has alienated its base, and focus instead on what it must do to win it back by the end of next year, so that it can win back the Senate, and get more seats in the House by 2018.

Yes Hillary it turns out that some Latinos hate undocumented Mexicans almost as much as Trump does. I have seen Puerto Ricans and Dominicans in NY harassing Mexicans.  I can only imagine how the more conservative of these groups living in FL, feel about this.

You are using percentages on one hand and straight figures on the other.  Trusting your numbers could the fact that 7 million less people voted skew the percentages?  You are the stats man.

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

When the Hillary partisans were confident that she could win the electoral college they were fine with this system.

Now that California provided the large number of votes (without this she would not be in the lead) they scream something else.

If they didn't want the electoral college then they should have tried to change it LONG AGO!  Rules are rules and the presidency in 2016 was awarded to the one who won the college.

This deficiency in the US system is well noted.  It will not change because the Republicans will never agree to it.  Not because the USA says it is a democracy means that it is a democracy.  In fact, the USA claimed that it was a democracy under segregation and slavery.  Under slavery blacks were defined as the equivalent to cattle.

Which present day Republican won the popular votes and lost the "elections"???

 

Did Obama protest against the electoral college? No because he eked a win in the popular vote at just over 51% but had a landslide in the electoral college, 332 vs. 206. Even more lop sided than Trump's electoral win.

So no the Dems will not do so because the victor almost always has a "landslide" when measured with the electoral college.

Even you will admit that Obama much prefers to refer to his 2012 win as a landslide win of 62% of the electoral college, than eking out a win in the national vote of a mere 52%.

Banna stop talking $hit.  I ain't got time to waste.

No, Caribj "trumped" you (no pun intended).  Now run for cover like a lil girlie.  You are a clueless dunce!!  You are the one talking sh1t!!

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

Black men 13% vs. 4% for Romney.

Latinos 30% vs, 22% for Romney.

Asians 30% vs, 28% for Romney.

Hillary got 6 million fewer votes than Obama did in 2012. Trump only got 1 million fewer.

You all partisans need to cease fooling yourselves that the Democratic party didn't lose because it has alienated its base, and focus instead on what it must do to win it back by the end of next year, so that it can win back the Senate, and get more seats in the House by 2018.

Yes Hillary it turns out that some Latinos hate undocumented Mexicans almost as much as Trump does. I have seen Puerto Ricans and Dominicans in NY harassing Mexicans.  I can only imagine how the more conservative of these groups living in FL, feel about this.

You are using percentages on one hand and straight figures on the other.  Trusting your numbers could the fact that 7 million less people voted skew the percentages?  You are the stats man.

Fool quit, you are already behind.

America is not a proportional representation model, but a state level winner takes it all model, except two states!  Each state has Electoral College votes based roughly on population ratio to the nation as a whole.

ba$eman posted:

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

And could somebody show me the math how the cross over votes were calculated?

Black men 13% vs. 4% for Romney.

Latinos 30% vs, 22% for Romney.

Asians 30% vs, 28% for Romney.

Hillary got 6 million fewer votes than Obama did in 2012. Trump only got 1 million fewer.

You all partisans need to cease fooling yourselves that the Democratic party didn't lose because it has alienated its base, and focus instead on what it must do to win it back by the end of next year, so that it can win back the Senate, and get more seats in the House by 2018.

Yes Hillary it turns out that some Latinos hate undocumented Mexicans almost as much as Trump does. I have seen Puerto Ricans and Dominicans in NY harassing Mexicans.  I can only imagine how the more conservative of these groups living in FL, feel about this.

You are using percentages on one hand and straight figures on the other.  Trusting your numbers could the fact that 7 million less people voted skew the percentages?  You are the stats man.

Fool quit, you are already behind.

America is not a proportional representation model, but a state level winner takes it all model, except two states!  Each state has Electoral College votes based roughly on population ratio to the nation as a whole.

Who makes me behind clown?  And America said a slave is a "property" and segregation is okay under a democracy.

In NY city at my pollsite PS 161Q

General Election brings out 600-800 voter

April Presidential Primary 1000+

However on Tuesday we had 4004 voters on the machine and more than 500 absentee ballots

This is truly historic

New York Times - Nov 10, 2016

The Electoral College Is Hated by Many. So Why Does It Endure?

In November 2000, as the Florida recount gripped the nation, a newly elected Democratic senator from New York took a break from an upstate victory tour to address the possibility that Al Gore could wind up winning the popular vote but losing the presidential election.

She was unequivocal. “I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people,” Hillary Clinton said, “and to me that means it’s time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president.”

Sixteen years later, the Electoral College is still standing, and Mrs. Clinton has followed Mr. Gore as the second Democratic presidential candidate in modern history to be defeated by a Republican who earned fewer votes, in his case George W. Bush.

In her concession speech on Wednesday, Mrs. Clinton did not mention the popular vote, an omission that seemed to signal her desire to encourage a smooth and civil transition of power after a divisive election. But her running mate, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, highlighted her higher vote total than Donald J. Trump’s in introducing her.

The disparity left a bitter taste in the mouths of many Democrats, whose party won the country’s national popular vote for the third consecutive election but no longer controls any branch of government.

“If we really subscribe to the notion that ‘majority rules,’ then why do we deny the majority their chosen candidate?” asked Jennifer M. Granholm, a former governor of Michigan.

Mr. Trump himself has been critical of the Electoral College in the past. On the eve of the 2012 election, he called it “a disaster for a democracy” in a Twitter post. Now, after months of railing against what he called a “rigged” election, he has become the unlikely beneficiary of an electoral system that enables a candidate to win the race without winning over the most voters.

None of Mrs. Clinton’s supporters have gone so far as to suggest that the popular vote tally should delegitimize Mr. Trump’s victory, and the popular-vote margin in Tuesday’s election was in fact narrower than the one that separated Mr. Bush and Mr. Gore in 2000.

But the results are already renewing calls for electoral reform. “I personally would like to see the Electoral College eliminated entirely,” said David Boies, the lawyer who represented Mr. Gore in the Florida recount in 2000. “I think it’s a historical anomaly.”

Defenders of the system argue that it reduces the chances of daunting nationwide recounts in close races, a scenario that Gary L. Gregg II, an Electoral College expert at the University of Louisville, said would be a “national nightmare.”

A variety of factors informed the creation of the Electoral College, which apportions a fixed number of votes to each state based on the size of its population. The founding fathers sought to ensure that residents in states with smaller populations were not ignored.

In an era that predated mass media and even political parties, the founders were also concerned that average Americans would lack enough information about the candidates to make intelligent choices. So informed “electors” would stand in for them.

Above all, some historians point to the critical role that slavery played in the formation of the system. Southern delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, most prominently James Madison of Virginia, were concerned that their constituents would be outnumbered by Northerners. The Three-Fifths Compromise, however, allowed states to count each slave as three-fifths of a person — enough, at the time, to ensure a Southern majority in presidential races.

On social media Wednesday, some drew connections between that history and what they perceived as an imbalance in the Electoral College that favors Republicans.

“Electoral college will forever tip balance to rural/conservative/“white”/older voters — a concession to slave-holders originally,” the author Joyce Carol Oates wrote on Twitter.

To its critics, the Electoral College is a relic that violates the democratic principle of one person, one vote, and distorts the presidential campaign by encouraging candidates to campaign only in the relatively small number of contested states.

“I think it is intolerable for democracy,” said George C. Edwards III, a political science professor at Texas A&M University and the author of a book on the Electoral College. “I can’t think of any justification for it, and any justification that is offered doesn’t bear scrutiny.”

But calls to change the system, which would require a constitutional amendment, are likely to fall on deaf ears with Republicans in control of both houses of Congress.

And though there was some momentum for reform after Mr. Gore’s defeat, it dissipated after Mr. Bush and Barack Obama won both the popular and electoral votes in 2004, 2008 and 2012.

Some states have discussed a possibility that would not necessarily require amending the Constitution: jettisoning the winner-take-all system, in which a single candidate is awarded all of a state’s electoral votes — regardless of the popular vote — and instead apportioning them to reflect the breakdown of each state’s popular vote. Two states, Maine and Nebraska, already do this.

But even that approach could face challenges, said Laurence H. Tribe, a professor at Harvard Law School.

For reformers, the best hope may lie in the so-called National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, an agreement among states to award all of their respective electoral votes to the candidate who wins the popular vote in a given election.

So far, 10 states and the District of Columbia have joined the agreement. But it will only go into effect when enough states have signed on to guarantee that the winner of the popular vote would win an election.

For now, it seems, any change still remains a far-off notion.

“I am very mad at James Madison,” said former Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat. “But I don’t think there’s anything I can do about it.”

alena06 posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

First he has to master the art of finding countries on the world map The man might end up assigning people to the wrong countries..lol

Dats funny tarasss, hehehe

It seems so unreal when I hear the exit poll over 60% saw Trump as unfit to be President. Perhaps Russian interference, that's gotta be it.

I seem to recall hearing something about votes being switched by electronic means being bellowed by Strump, so maybe is true story dat.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

Baseman. Good punishment for him!  This will be Trump slowly deporting the Indo KKK.

cain posted:

It seems so unreal when I hear the exit poll over 60% saw Trump as unfit to be President. Perhaps Russian interference, that's gotta be it.

I seem to recall hearing something about votes being switched by electronic means being bellowed by Strump, so maybe is true story dat.

I think by now you would have tired of polls, given how inaccurate they were.

caribny posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Who will Trump appoint as ambassador to Guyana??  

Baseman. Good punishment for him!  This will be Trump slowly deporting the Indo KKK.

Sounds good to Iman. Set up something in Tiga Bay for e rass.

caribny posted:

cain posted:

It seems so unreal when I hear the exit poll over 60% saw Trump as unfit to be President. Perhaps Russian interference, that's gotta be it.

I seem to recall hearing something about votes being switched by electronic means being bellowed by Strump, so maybe is true story dat.

I think by now you would have tired of polls, given how inaccurate they were.

So u sayin is no KGB, Goldfinger, OddJob an' dem guys?

Danyael posted:

.

I can assure you presently the DNC is reconstituting itself.

Unless you all leave the Ivory Towers and LISTEN to the people instead of preaching to them.

Taking into account what THEY think is important, instead of what you think that they should prioritize.

Learning that no party "owns" any voting bloc, and these voting blocs aren't monolithic.

Then the Democrats will lose.

If this election taught us anything its that the bases of BOTH parties hate their elites. This is why we have Trump as president. He knew the GOP base much better than many, and was also skilled at getting enough swing votes.

Turns out that more Americans in the swing states didn't care about a foul mouthed bigot. What they cared is the fact that he successfully mounted a scam that he could improve their lives. Hillary wasted time with her "Nasty Women" rather than showing that this was a fraudulent claim.  This because her campaign team knew nothing about what was important to many voters. They pushed their own value systems on these people and are confused as to why this was rejected.

When working class women cared more about issues beyond misogyny the campaign should have listened and refocused their messaging on issues important to these people.

What should have been in the face of every American 24/7 were scenes of Trump screaming that the US auto industry be allowed to die, and also scenes of Asian women making Trump's ties and other clothing.