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FM
Former Member
There should be a referendum to change presidential powers

By Stabroek staff | 6 Comments | Letters | Monday, December 5, 2011


Dear Editor,

This election result has me reading the constitution. I recommend Guyanese take some time and read it too. Article 164 sets out the process for changing the constitution. Without a single shred of doubt, we all know the powers of the presidency must be curtailed. The presidency has been the scene of significant abuse of this nation starting with Forbes Burnham and ending with Bharrat Jagdeo. No individual who is handpicked in some cases should have the kind of unlimited power to do things like pick the prime minister and to strip Guyanese of their citizenship if he/she feels like it. The PNC built this Burnham constitutional behemoth and now it must lead the way in tearing it down. They missed an opportunity in 1992 when despite knowing they were going to lose power and were likely never to win it again because they were at a disadvantage in terms of the racial voting patterns in Guyana, quite foolishly failed to amend the disaster they had constructed. The PNC/APNU now has a golden opportunity some twenty years later to make up for its shortsightedness and shortcomings from 1992.

If the APNU/PNC fails to change the constitution now, it will pay a terrible price. There is a strong likelihood that former PPP supporters who voted for the AFC may return to the PPP in the next election, giving the PPP that majority and confining the PNC/APNU to its regular toothless
opposition role once again, and gutting the AFC. Similarly, apathetic PPP supporters may get off the couch in 2016 just to deny APNU’s gains. I hope APNU is not harbouring the delusions of grandeur as it did in 1992 of somehow winning power again through legitimate means and maximising its powers using the Burnham constitution. It cannot and will not happen. This electoral result is APNU/PNC’s zenith and its pinnacle in terms of electoral performance. APNU/PNC has never gotten more than 41.5% of the vote in five elections in twenty years.

A referendum is the only way to radically change the presidency and rid it of its unhealthy power over the lives of Guyanese. While people may vote race when voting for parties, a referendum is a vote on issues. People of all races, classes and religions will support a referendum to curtail the powers of the presidency and government. The AFC and APNU should push a bill through Parliament to call a referendum to change those draconian and ludicrous powers of the presidency and other shocking provisions.

If APNU and the AFC want to change how people vote, it is time they start running referendums to get people voting on issues. It would change people’s perceptions about voting and reasons for voting and get voters who can’t normally see beyond ethnicity to think about issues. APNU and the AFC should hold consultations on constitutional change, invite experts and qualified overseas Guyanese to hold constitutional conferences and town hall meetings and then marshal the people’s desire for change into a bill before Parliament to change the constitution by referendum. Determine all those sections covered by Article 164 that need to change and pass a law endorsed by a positive referendum to make the change. Whoever gets power from that point onwards does not get unlimited power and has to use that power to benefit all. We have seen in Guyana that great power does not bring any responsibility. Time to fix this constitution the old-fashioned way: before the people, by the people, for the people.

Yours faithfully,
M Maxwell

Replies sorted oldest to newest

164. (1) Subject to the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3), a Bill
for an Act of Parliament to alter this Constitution shall not be passed by the National
Assembly unless it is supported at the final voting in the Assembly by the votes of
a majority of all the elected members of the Assembly.

(2) A Bill to alter any of the following provisions of this Constitution, that is to say (a) this article, articles 1,2, 8, 9, 18, 51, 66, 89, 99 and 111; and
(b) articles 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, 10 to 17 (inclusive), 19 to 49 (inclusive), 52 to 57 (inclusive), 59,60, 62,63, 64, 65, 67, 68, 69, 70, 72 (in so far as it relates to the number of
regions), 90 to 96 (inclusive), 98, 108, 110, 116, 120 to 163 (inclusive, but excepting article 132), 168 to 215 (inclusive, but excepting articles 173, 185, 186, 192 (2) and (3) and 193), 222, 223, 225, 226, 231 and 232 (excepting the definition of "financial year"),
shall not be submitted to the President for his assent unless the Bill, not less than two
and not more than six months after its passage through the National Assembly, has, in
such manner as Parliament may prescribe, been submitted to the vote of the electors qualified to vote in an election and has been approved by a majority of the electors who vote on the Bill:
FM
While this is indeed a necessity there is more to be done to whittle away at the PPP political machinery first. A referendum without taking the powers to use the media and the state funds as personal loot is not smart.This has to be in place first. You have to bring accountability to the electoral process as it stands by first making it a level playing field
FM
Just don't stop there. Get rid of PR and replace it with a system for the distribution of power between a central authority (the Government) and the constituent units from the three counties or the 10 regions. Let the people pick their local representatives.
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
Just don't stop there. Get rid of PR and replace it with a system for the distribution of power between a central authority (the Government) and the constituent units from the three counties or the 10 regions. Let the people pick their local representatives.


Unfortunately I suspect that all the Parties love the current system of the post-election system of 1 single party leader selecting MPs.

Imagine we have only 3 Party leaders unilaterally selecting all 65 MPs.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
While this is indeed a necessity there is more to be done to whittle away at the PPP political machinery first. A referendum without taking the powers to use the media and the state funds at as personal loot is not smart.This has to be in place first. You have to bring accountability to the electoral process as it stands without first attempting to make it a level playing field.


Makes perfect sense! The only unsettling thing is that the President still retains the power to prorogue and/or dissolve parliament at will.

Think Ramotar will wield that weapon against the Assembly?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
Just don't stop there. Get rid of PR and replace it with a system for the distribution of power between a central authority (the Government) and the constituent units from the three counties or the 10 regions. Let the people pick their local representatives.
That should not be done in a hurry. That is a task not for political operatives or party elites. That is a matter for a civic commission. My view is this commission first enumerate the largest bill of rights they can conjure up and then circumscribe a constitution and electoral system around that.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by JoKer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
Just don't stop there. Get rid of PR and replace it with a system for the distribution of power between a central authority (the Government) and the constituent units from the three counties or the 10 regions. Let the people pick their local representatives.


Unfortunately I suspect that all the Parties love the current system of the post-election system of 1 single party leader selecting MPs.

Imagine we have only 3 Party leaders unilaterally selecting all 65 MPs.


Yeh!!! dem run de risk of not being elected. clever
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
quote:
Originally posted by JoKer:
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
Just don't stop there. Get rid of PR and replace it with a system for the distribution of power between a central authority (the Government) and the constituent units from the three counties or the 10 regions. Let the people pick their local representatives.


Unfortunately I suspect that all the Parties love the current system of the post-election system of 1 single party leader selecting MPs.

Imagine we have only 3 Party leaders unilaterally selecting all 65 MPs.


Yeh!!! dem run de risk of not being elected. clever


Notice how both the PPP and the PNC like this system of MP indentureship?
FM
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.


Are you an idiot? Then again don't answer that. Your words speak for themselves.

The MAJORITY in Parliament may table any motion it pleases. Especially one that bypasses the need for Presidential Assent Big Grin Big Grin
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.


Isn't the "P" in your name stand for "PIG". panman
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.
You see it this way because you thinks only in storming the barricades. There are other ways.

Do not base your strategy on rumors. The rumor (and one you subscribed to) was the PPP had so many people attending their meetings that the elections will be a route. Who got routed?

The Pigs are most certainly the clearly visible porkers ( literally) in the PPP.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Mitwah:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.


Isn't the "P" in your name stand for "PIG". panman


The pic below is of a PPP meeting. I wonder which one is our Rama****: Big Grin Big Grin
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.
You see it this way because you thinks only in storming the barricades. There are other ways.

Do not base your strategy on rumors. The rumor (and one you subscribed to) was the PPP had so many people attending their meetings that the elections will be a route. Who got routed?

The Pigs are most certainly the clearly visible porkers ( literally) in the PPP.


I stand by what I said. The Opposition although they have a combined majority is not going to table any motion in parliament. The government will table all motions and bills. The opposition will be allowed to speak and vote. It would affect how the PPP thinks..
Actually the opposition has no power unless they bring a motion of no confidence, then the PPP wouls be willing to go to the polls.
The AFC will lose their indo support for assoctiating with the PNC.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.
You see it this way because you thinks only in storming the barricades. There are other ways.

Do not base your strategy on rumors. The rumor (and one you subscribed to) was the PPP had so many people attending their meetings that the elections will be a route. Who got routed?

The Pigs are most certainly the clearly visible porkers ( literally) in the PPP.


I stand by what I said. The Opposition although they have a combined majority is not going to table any motion in parliament. The government will table all motions and bills. The opposition will be allowed to speak and vote. It would affect how the PPP thinks..
Actually the opposition has no power unless they bring a motion of no confidence, then the PPP wouls be willing to go to the polls.
The AFC will lose their indo support for assoctiating with the PNC.


Bhaiji, like you hitting de bakkle soon maaning. Youse kinda taak if fuh de rum shop. yippie
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is one man's opinion and he is ignoran t of the standing procedures.. The opposition cannot change the constitution. They are not going to be allowed to table any motion in parliament which will disrupt the smooth operation of the government.
So far, the opposition is not proposing anything.
All rumours by the AFC pigs are not going to be taken seriously.
You see it this way because you thinks only in storming the barricades. There are other ways.

Do not base your strategy on rumors. The rumor (and one you subscribed to) was the PPP had so many people attending their meetings that the elections will be a route. Who got routed?

The Pigs are most certainly the clearly visible porkers ( literally) in the PPP.


I stand by what I said. The Opposition although they have a combined majority is not going to table any motion in parliament. The government will table all motions and bills. The opposition will be allowed to speak and vote. It would affect how the PPP thinks..
Actually the opposition has no power unless they bring a motion of no confidence, then the PPP wouls be willing to go to the polls.
The AFC will lose their indo support for assoctiating with the PNC.


Do you even know how Parliament actually works?

Have you even perused the Standing Orders or does idiocy qualify as scholarship?
FM

It has been 0ver ten years since I have been clamoring here into the wind about our need for constitutional reforms to limit the powers of the presidency and to bring accountability to the legislature through direct representation. I also noted to prevent overloading of the system through fielding of many candidates in a particular districts we change the one vote strategy for a system of preferences or create two layers of the legislature with the upper chamber being formed by two or more lower chamber constituencies. There must be some way to bring an end to our ethnic voting patterns and to inhibit corrupt politicians from dominating our society so much that they create a kith and kin caste system with the  rest of the nation as its dalits.

 

That being said, why has the combined opposition not yet framing the conversation around limiting the powers of the presidency, removing the section prohibiting post election coalition formation etc? The PPP has already shown its complete incapacity for change and is hell bent on reconstituting its powers by taking control of the legislature as well. They can only do that if the opposition appear incompetent, indecisive and unable to generate mimetic themes of a viral nature that can break through to the people themselves.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

It has been 0ver ten years since I have been clamoring here into the wind about our need for constitutional reforms to limit the powers of the presidency and to bring accountability to the legislature through direct representation. I also noted to prevent overloading of the system through fielding of many candidates in a particular districts we change the one vote strategy for a system of preferences or create two layers of the legislature with the upper chamber being formed by two or more lower chamber constituencies. There must be some way to bring an end to our ethnic voting patterns and to inhibit corrupt politicians from dominating our society so much that they create a kith and kin caste system with the  rest of the nation as its dalits.

 

That being said, why has the combined opposition not yet framing the conversation around limiting the powers of the presidency, removing the section prohibiting post election coalition formation etc? The PPP has already shown its complete incapacity for change and is hell bent on reconstituting its powers by taking control of the legislature as well. They can only do that if the opposition appear incompetent, indecisive and unable to generate mimetic themes of a viral nature that can break through to the people themselves.

 

The opposition was completely distracted this year. They picked battles with kamikaze and nihilistic people in the PPP. They cut the budget of NCN and Chronicle yet the PPP continues to find money to fund these agencies and lock out the opposition from representation. The PPP sucked them into various protests and planted the hooligans and thugs to beat up people. The opposition now have to spend months to defend those actions. They need to realize how evil the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal is. The kamikaze politicians sucked them into conflicts that left little or no time for constitutional reform. What they need to do is start campaigning and educating people about the need for constitutional reforms. That while the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal accuses Burnham of Swiss accounts they are feeding off Burnham's Constitution. They are taking the country down the road of authoritarianism and a spy state. The opposition needs to push for local government election, constitutional reforms and other sane measures that will place the kamikaze on the back foot.   

FM

Now you people ketch sense, the joint opposition have been too vindictive and power drunk in their 1st year in parliament as the majority. They concentrate on frivolous matters and ignore the important stuff. 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Now you people ketch sense, the joint opposition have been too vindictive and power drunk in their 1st year in parliament as the majority. They concentrate on frivolous matters and ignore the important stuff. 

 


OH MY JESUS! I actually agree with this PPP mudhead.

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Now you people ketch sense, the joint opposition have been too vindictive and power drunk in their 1st year in parliament as the majority. They concentrate on frivolous matters and ignore the important stuff. 

the immoral, race baiting, mass murder celebrating, tiefman sanctioning, donkey/KLOWN's 'careful' attempt to re-join civilized conversation

 

must be something in the 2013 air

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Now you people ketch sense, the joint opposition have been too vindictive and power drunk in their 1st year in parliament as the majority. They concentrate on frivolous matters and ignore the important stuff. 

the immoral, race baiting, mass murder celebrating, tiefman sanctioning, donkey/KLOWN's 'careful' attempt to re-join civilized conversation

 

must be something in the 2013 air

 

As the great Red Fox would say "Elizabeth I'm coming to see you baby, I feel a heart attack coming. This is the big one"

 

Imagine even this PPP mudhead thinks the Opposition should vote Guyana a Referendum Bill

FM
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

It has been 0ver ten years since I have been clamoring here into the wind about our need for constitutional reforms to limit the powers of the presidency and to bring accountability to the legislature through direct representation. I also noted to prevent overloading of the system through fielding of many candidates in a particular districts we change the one vote strategy for a system of preferences or create two layers of the legislature with the upper chamber being formed by two or more lower chamber constituencies. There must be some way to bring an end to our ethnic voting patterns and to inhibit corrupt politicians from dominating our society so much that they create a kith and kin caste system with the  rest of the nation as its dalits.

 

That being said, why has the combined opposition not yet framing the conversation around limiting the powers of the presidency, removing the section prohibiting post election coalition formation etc? The PPP has already shown its complete incapacity for change and is hell bent on reconstituting its powers by taking control of the legislature as well. They can only do that if the opposition appear incompetent, indecisive and unable to generate mimetic themes of a viral nature that can break through to the people themselves.

 

The opposition was completely distracted this year. They picked battles with kamikaze and nihilistic people in the PPP. They cut the budget of NCN and Chronicle yet the PPP continues to find money to fund these agencies and lock out the opposition from representation. The PPP sucked them into various protests and planted the hooligans and thugs to beat up people. The opposition now have to spend months to defend those actions. They need to realize how evil the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal is. The kamikaze politicians sucked them into conflicts that left little or no time for constitutional reform. What they need to do is start campaigning and educating people about the need for constitutional reforms. That while the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal accuses Burnham of Swiss accounts they are feeding off Burnham's Constitution. They are taking the country down the road of authoritarianism and a spy state. The opposition needs to push for local government election, constitutional reforms and other sane measures that will place the kamikaze on the back foot.   

 

 

Hey TK,

 

I hope your boys in de Opposition larn some belated sense and get around to using their once in history majority because you guys should not assume that you'll even be returned as a parliamentary party next time

FM
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

It has been 0ver ten years since I have been clamoring here into the wind about our need for constitutional reforms to limit the powers of the presidency and to bring accountability to the legislature through direct representation. I also noted to prevent overloading of the system through fielding of many candidates in a particular districts we change the one vote strategy for a system of preferences or create two layers of the legislature with the upper chamber being formed by two or more lower chamber constituencies. There must be some way to bring an end to our ethnic voting patterns and to inhibit corrupt politicians from dominating our society so much that they create a kith and kin caste system with the  rest of the nation as its dalits.

 

That being said, why has the combined opposition not yet framing the conversation around limiting the powers of the presidency, removing the section prohibiting post election coalition formation etc? The PPP has already shown its complete incapacity for change and is hell bent on reconstituting its powers by taking control of the legislature as well. They can only do that if the opposition appear incompetent, indecisive and unable to generate mimetic themes of a viral nature that can break through to the people themselves.

 

The opposition was completely distracted this year. They picked battles with kamikaze and nihilistic people in the PPP. They cut the budget of NCN and Chronicle yet the PPP continues to find money to fund these agencies and lock out the opposition from representation. The PPP sucked them into various protests and planted the hooligans and thugs to beat up people. The opposition now have to spend months to defend those actions. They need to realize how evil the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal is. The kamikaze politicians sucked them into conflicts that left little or no time for constitutional reform. What they need to do is start campaigning and educating people about the need for constitutional reforms. That while the Jagdeo-Ramotar cabal accuses Burnham of Swiss accounts they are feeding off Burnham's Constitution. They are taking the country down the road of authoritarianism and a spy state. The opposition needs to push for local government election, constitutional reforms and other sane measures that will place the kamikaze on the back foot.   

 

 

Hey TK,

 

I hope your boys in de Opposition larn some belated sense and get around to using their once in history majority because you guys should not assume that you'll even be returned as a parliamentary party next time

 

Bai...I hear ya. 

FM

And also since Parliament might not have an Opposition of 33 seats but only 7 in this calendar year, you guys need to show the People that you can craft and pass meaningful legislation.

 

Imagine if you guys passed a Bill to ethnically balance the armed forces. The PPP would have to explain a Presidential veto to the Indian population and instantly cede the high ground to you guys.

FM
Originally Posted by JoKer:

And also since Parliament might not have an Opposition of 33 seats but only 7 in this calendar year, you guys need to show the People that you can craft and pass meaningful legislation.

 

Imagine if you guys passed a Bill to ethnically balance the armed forces. The PPP would have to explain a Presidential veto to the Indian population and instantly cede the high ground to you guys.

 Any bill that strengthen democracy and give back authority to the people will have an impact. Legislation needs to be focused on areas of gripe and areas of excess authority of the government. The Audit structure should be a public service body independent of government with institutional strength to out last administrations. The present structure allows the PPP to rob us blind and any party inheriting these  broken structures will also take advantage of us. Note, corruption is not because people are evil but because people have no constraints and will assume it is their prerogative to do as they please.  It is about power without accountability.

FM

Stormy,

 

I agree completely. Its such a shame that the Opposition with rare exception has such a lot of talentless empty shirt jacs for MPs. I've yet to read one Bill from these people that might actually mean something to the ordinary person. Instead they focus on these areas which the ordinary person does not care about (except the one time they threatened to sack some poor civil servants or something)

FM

You jokers are finally admitting that the people you place so much trust in are useless. The PPP at least are decisive and have a vision, the fools in the opposition are just interested in filling their pockets, the same they accuse the PPP.

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

You jokers are finally admitting that the people you place so much trust in are useless. The PPP at least are decisive and have a vision, the fools in the opposition are just interested in filling their pockets, the same they accuse the PPP.

BGurd_See/Auntyman Friends in Central Committee,

 

Wrong again. The Opposition is not composed of blind follow de leader leader mudheads. We like to question and criticize our leaders because its healthy in a democracy.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
 
 Note, corruption is not because people are evil but because people have no constraints and will assume it is their prerogative to do as they please.  It is about power without accountability.

Excellent! Well said Stormy!

 

Listen! Cheddi and the PPP used to bawl and scream about the Burnham constitution and the excessive power it gave to the executive branch---they promised to change the Burnham constitution if they got into office.

 

Well, the PPP has been in office for over 20 years---and they love the Burnham constitution and the power it bestows upon them.

 

POWER = MILK & HONEY

 

And until the Guyanese people decide to vote the PPP out of office---PPP politicians will continue to feast on the milk and honey---they will never acquiesce to changing the constitution.

 

And if the PNC/AFC ever take over the executive branch---they will also feast on the milk and honey---and will not change the constitution.

 

Rev

FM

Rev

 

The AFC totally refuses to investigate their own and opposes the building of the five star hotel in Guyana because one of their financial supporters own a run down hotel. They are afraid of classy competition.

 

Ask them for the results of the Bush Donkey election funds investigation and they duck for cover. These guys are no better than the people they are allegedly fighting against. The AFC will also oil their pockets like oil roti.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Rev

 

The AFC totally refuses to investigate their own and opposes the building of the five star hotel in Guyana because one of their financial supporters own a run down hotel. They are afraid of classy competition.

 

Ask them for the results of the Bush Donkey election funds investigation and they duck for cover. These guys are no better than the people they are allegedly fighting against. The AFC will also oil their pockets like oil roti.

Your mother is a jackass if you think you can go to Port Morant and Skeldon market and buy veggies and get a reciept fro the vendors.

 


 

Mitwah
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Rev

 

The AFC totally refuses to investigate their own and opposes the building of the five star hotel in Guyana because one of their financial supporters own a run down hotel. They are afraid of classy competition.

 

Ask them for the results of the Bush Donkey election funds investigation and they duck for cover. These guys are no better than the people they are allegedly fighting against. The AFC will also oil their pockets like oil roti.

 

I see our puja pushing internet Brahmin continues in the new year to miss the forest of corruption by inventing trees of alleged corruption. 

FM
It's great to see a discussion on new governance, personally I would like to see stronger local governments But....but how do we get the guys that wield power AFC, PPP, PNC talking???? Maybe the new kid on the bloc should issue a policy paper on their prescription for governance in a multi-ethnic environment .... Having a black and Indian co leaders is just as effective as having Sam hinds and Ramoutar as the answer to representative government.
FM

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