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FM
Former Member

Sami Al-Arian: Farewell to a Tenured Terrorist

dpThe “Islamophobes” won’t have Sami Al-Arian to kick around any more. The former tenured professor from the University of South Florida has just been deported to Turkey, after more than a decade of fighting valiantly to supposedly clear his name and reputation in the United States.

Throughout his many years in America, Al-Arian showed himself to be a pious man with a deep and abiding religious faith, as evidenced by his proud membership in the Muslim Brotherhood—the font from which sprang a number of other godly organizations, like Hamas and al-Qaeda, which have done so much to educate the world vis-à-vis the theological virtues of suicide belts, collapsing skyscrapers, and mountains of smoldering infidel corpses.

Al-Arian, for his part, carved out a cozy niche as the North American leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), an organization that was established by a pack of energetic Gazans who wished to put their own sacred piety on display by detonating powerful explosives amidst crowds of unsuspecting Jews.

PIJ’s holy warriors, you see, are committed to the noble cause of creating an Islamic state on every square inch of land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River—that is, the territory that some people—though not PIJ members, of course—call “Israel.” And while PIJ seeks to achieve this goal by slaughtering as many Jews as possible, we must refrain from falling into the trap of labeling its aspirations as “genocidal.” After all, as Sami Al-Arian would surely acknowledge in a candid moment, you really can’t make a decent caliphate without breaking a few million Jews.

Not only a man of piety, Al-Arian is also a man of charity. We know this because he personally established a charitable organization known as the Islamic Committee for Palestine (ICP), devoted to alleviating the suffering of impoverished Palestinian widows and orphansand oh, yes, financing the activities of suicide bombers seeking to blow up lots of Jews.

Throughout the late ’80s and early ’90s, ICP rallies and conferences featured prominent displays of Palestinian Islamic Jihad emblems and literature. At one ICP conference in Cleveland in 1991, Al-Arian declaredon behalf of weeping widows and orphans, no doubt

“God cursed those who are the sons of Israel … Those people, God made monkeys and pigs … Let us damn America, let us damn Israel, let us damn them and their allies until death.” In another videotaped speech, he said most reverently: “We assemble today to pay respects to the march of the martyrs and to the river of blood that gushes forth and does not extinguish, from butchery to butchery, and from martyrdom to martyrdom, from jihad to jihad.”

Pretty heady stuff, wouldn’t you say?

Other featured speakers at Al-Arian’s ICP events included such luminaries as these:

  • Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, a holy man who is currently serving a prison sentence of life-plus-65-years for his role in various plots to bomb the New York FBI headquarters, the United Nations building, the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels, the George Washington Bridge, and some U.S. military installations;
  • Sheikh Abdel Aziz Odeh, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad “spiritual leader” whom the FBI is currently pursuing due to the “bombings, murders, extortions, and money laundering” in which he has participated;
  • Mohammad Al-Asi, a pro-Khomeini activist who gleefully vows that “the Muslims will deal the deathblow” to the hated Jews; and
  • Muhammad ‘Umar, whose Islamic Liberation Party seeks to overthrow secular government institutions throughout the Middle East.

In addition to his piety and charity, Sami Al-Arian is also a very deep thinker. We know this because he himself co-founded a “think tank” called the World & Islam Studies Enterprise (WISE). His partners in this endeavor were some highly interesting fellas:

 

Al-Arian’s think tank was also blessed to have had a highly accomplished board member named Tarik Hamdi, who in May 1998 met personally with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, where he gave the al-Qaeda leader a satellite telephone and battery pack to facilitate his orchestration of mass death. In fact, bin Laden used that very same phone to plan the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania three months later, which killed 234 people.

When FBI agents eventually raided the headquarters of WISE, they seized not only some 500 videotapes of conferences in which Al-Arian had raised funds for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s efforts overseas, but also a most interesting 1995 letter he had written to solicit money from a Kuwaiti associate. Referencing a recent pair of suicide bombings that had killed 21 Jews at a bus station in Western Israel, Al-Arian, in this letter, urged his acquaintance “to try to extend true [financial] support of the jihad effort in Palestine so that operations such as these can continue.”

In December 2001, as it was becoming increasingly clear that Al-Arian was somehow affiliated with Islamic terrorism, University of San Francisco officials suspended the tenured professor. This prompted him, in turn, to display yet another of his many talents: adopting the posture of a pathetic, whining victim. “I’m a minority,” Al-Arian said. “I’m an Arab. I’m a Palestinian. I’m a Muslim. That’s not a popular thing to be these days. Do I have rights, or don’t I have rights?”

This bullet-proof logic, naturally, was persuasive enough to galvanize instant support from the American Left. Salon.com reporter Eric Boehlert, for example, lamented that the “innocent professor” was being subjected to a “prime time smearing” solely on the basis of “discredited, years-old allegations.” Professor Ellen Schrecker of Yeshiva University characterized Al-Arian’s suspension as a tragic illustration of “political repression.” The head of Georgetown’s Middle East Studies program, Professor John Esposito, voiced concern that Al-Arian might become a “victim of … anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bigotry.” And Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times told us that Al-Arian was an upstanding patriot who “denounces terrorism, promotes inter-faith services with Jews and Christians, and led students at his Islamic school to a memorial service after 9/11 where they all sang ‘God Bless America.’”

Others who joined the Al-Arian defense chorus included the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, the American Association of University Professors, the University of San Francisco faculty union, and the Duke University faculty—the latter of which invited Al-Arian to be the featured speaker at an academic symposium on “National Security and Civil Liberties.”

Notwithstanding all this support, in February 2003 a federal grand jury issued a 17-count indictment against Al-Arian. In the 2005 trial, which ended in acquittal on eight counts and a hung jury on the remaining nine counts, Al-Arian’s attorney conceded that his client was in fact an operative for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Likewise, a journalist covering the court proceedings reported that “the trial exposed the professor as having been deeply enmeshed in the internal workings of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.”

Seeking to avoid a retrial and to gain permission to be deported upon the fulfillment of whatever legal penalty he might be required to pay, Al-Arian in February 2006 agreed to plead guilty to a single count of conspiracy to “make or receive funds … for the benefit of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.” He was then sentenced to 57 months in prison, which included 38 months that he had already served. At the sentencing, Judge James S. Moody told the defendant: “The evidence was clear in this case that you were a leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad … [which engaged in] blowing up women and children on buses…. Anyone with even the slightest bit of human compassion would be sickened. Not you, you saw it as an opportunity to solicit more money to carry out more bombings.” With regard to Al-Arian’s claim that he had only raised funds for the needy and vulnerable, the judge said bluntly: “Your only connection to widows and orphans was that you create them.”

In June 2008, Al-Arian’s deportation was delayed when he was indicted for criminal contempt after repeatedly refusing to testify before a federal grand jury that was investigating a terror-financing network based in northern Virginia. That case against Al-Arian languished for five more years until prosecutors finally dropped it in June 2014, thereby setting the stage for his deportation this week.

As we would expect from a man of Al-Arian’s caliber, he took pains, on his way out of the country, to leave behind one last turd in the proverbial pool. “Today,” he wrote in a lengthy, self-serving statement,

“freedom of expression has become a defining feature in the struggle to realize our humanity and liberty. The forces of intolerance, hegemony, and exclusionary politics tend to favor the stifling of free speech and the suppression of dissent. But nothing is more dangerous than when such suppression is perpetrated and sanctioned by government.”

So, Sami Al-Arian has come full circle, ending his time in America exactly as he began it forty years ago—as a pathetic, deceiving, bloodthirsty anti-Semite who casts himself as a helpless, misunderstood victim of the ever-dreaded “intolerance” bogeyman. The only sign that anything at all has changed, is that his beard is now somewhat grayer.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Pointblank:

you really like to peddle garbage. read properly the man was found NOT GUILTY but because he refused to spy for the govt he was deported.

 

I'm sure this is just America picking on a poor innocent Muslim just because of America's anti-Muslim policy. Because you know, that's what Obama's Justice Dept does.

FM
Originally Posted by Pointblank:

       

you really like to peddle garbage. read properly the man was found NOT GUILTY but because he refused to spy for the govt he was deported.


       
Seeking to avoid a retrial and to gain permission to be deported upon the fulfillment of whatever legal penalty he might be required to pay, Al-Arian in February 2006 agreed to plead guilty to a single count of conspiracy to “make or receive funds … for the benefit of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.” He was then sentenced to 57 months in prison, which included 38 months that he had already served. At the sentencing, Judge James S. Moody told the defendant: “The evidence was clear in this case that you were a leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad … [which engaged in] blowing up women and children on buses…. Anyone with even the slightest bit of human compassion would be sickened. Not you, you saw it as an opportunity to solicit more money to carry out more bombings.” With regard to Al-Arian’s claim that he had only raised funds for the needy and vulnerable, the judge said bluntly: “Your only connection to widows and orphans was that you create them.”
Mars
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by Pointblank:

       

you really like to peddle garbage. read properly the man was found NOT GUILTY but because he refused to spy for the govt he was deported.


       
Seeking to avoid a retrial and to gain permission to be deported upon the fulfillment of whatever legal penalty he might be required to pay, Al-Arian in February 2006 agreed to plead guilty to a single count of conspiracy to “make or receive funds … for the benefit of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.” He was then sentenced to 57 months in prison, which included 38 months that he had already served. At the sentencing, Judge James S. Moody told the defendant: “The evidence was clear in this case that you were a leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad … [which engaged in] blowing up women and children on buses…. Anyone with even the slightest bit of human compassion would be sickened. Not you, you saw it as an opportunity to solicit more money to carry out more bombings.” With regard to Al-Arian’s claim that he had only raised funds for the needy and vulnerable, the judge said bluntly: “Your only connection to widows and orphans was that you create them.”

 

Nobody ever reads anymore on GNI prior to reply.

 

This is obviously an outrage. All this peaceful Muslim was trying to do was to peacefully support the murder of innocent women and children in Israel just like his religion teaches him.

 

This is just another case of Islamophobes being intolerant in not allowing this man his freedom of religion. He should be allowed to help murder people because that's his belief and as we all know, beliefs confer magical absolute rights once asserted. Especially if they come from a magical book.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

This is obviously an outrage. All this peaceful Muslim was trying to do was to peacefully support the murder of innocent women and children in Israel just like his religion teaches him.

 

This is just another case of Islamophobes being intolerant in not allowing this man his freedom of religion. He should be allowed to help murder people because that's his belief and as we all know, beliefs confer magical absolute rights once asserted. Especially if they come from a magical book.

Here is Numbers 31 of the Bible. If the contents of the Qur'an make Muslims kill, rob and plunder as you stated above, how come Jews and Christians don't kill, rob and plunder after reading the Bible passages like Numbers 31 below?

 

Vengeance on the Midianites

31 The Lord said to Moses, “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.”

21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, “This is what is required by the law that the Lord gave Moses: 22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead 23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. 24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp.”

Dividing the Spoils

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part. 30 From the Israelites’ half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was:

337,500 sheep, 37 of which the tribute for the Lord was 675;

38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the Lord was 72;

39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the Lord was 61;

40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the Lord was 32.

41 Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 The half belonging to the Israelites, which Moses set apart from that of the fighting men— 43 the community’s half—was 337,500 sheep, 44 36,000 cattle, 45 30,500 donkeys 46 and 16,000 people. 47 From the Israelites’ half, Moses selected one out of every fifty people and animals, as the Lord commanded him, and gave them to the Levites, who were responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle.

48 Then the officers who were over the units of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—went to Moses 49 and said to him, “Your servants have counted the soldiers under our command, and not one is missing. 50 So we have brought as an offering to the Lord the gold articles each of us acquired—armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings and necklaces—to make atonement for ourselves before the Lord.”

51 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted from them the gold—all the crafted articles. 52 All the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds that Moses and Eleazar presented as a gift to the Lord weighed 16,750 shekels.[a] 53 Each soldier had taken plunder for himself. 54 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord.

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

This is obviously an outrage. All this peaceful Muslim was trying to do was to peacefully support the murder of innocent women and children in Israel just like his religion teaches him.

 

This is just another case of Islamophobes being intolerant in not allowing this man his freedom of religion. He should be allowed to help murder people because that's his belief and as we all know, beliefs confer magical absolute rights once asserted. Especially if they come from a magical book.

Here is Numbers 31 of the Bible. If the contents of the Qur'an make Muslims kill, rob and plunder as you stated above, how come Jews and Christians don't kill, rob and plunder after reading the Bible passages like Numbers 31 below?

 

 

My Dear Friend,

 

I absolutely concur without hesitation that the Bible (Old and New Testaments) contain many instances of violence, genocide, and general barbarism. That Islam is some unique kind of religion in this textual respect is not my claim at all.

 

My claim is very simple and very limited. Whereas other ancient desert-based superstitions (such as Judaism and Christianity) have progressed and have come up with reformations that essentially neuter these verses which call for and tolerate barbarism, Islam lags behind.

 

Mainstream Islam (not the ISIS faction who are a very small minority) still rely on the violent verses of the Quran and the "perfect example" of Muhammad which lead them to do very anti-modern and sometimes barbarous things.

 

There is no so-called moderate Islamic country which will not kill gays, kill apostates, oppress minorities, oppress women etc etc. The difference among Muslim majority states is one of scale and severity.

 

This is not some gratuitous slam at Islam because I hate Muslims. It is a frank statement of the state of modern Islam.

 

The only truly moderate Muslims exist as minorities in Western Christian societies where they do not have the political power to oppress gays, women, minorities, and apostates.

 

Those are "moderate" Muslims not by choice but by the coercive nature of the civil law and the demographic advantage of the infidels.

 

Look at what obtains in the states of the world where your religious ideology dominate. Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate. What makes them so different than their Christian counterparts in the West?

FM

Did the US support this terrorist?  Ah, there were only Guyanese kids onboard...dat don't count

 

 

 

 de Aviación Flight 455was a Cuban flight from Barbadosto Jamaica that was brought down on October 6, 1976 by a bomb attack. All 73 people on board the Douglas DC-8 aircraft were killed. Two time bombs were used, variously described as dynamite or C-4.

Several CIA-linked anti-CastroCuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police DISIPwere implicated by the evidence. Political complications quickly arose when Cuba accused the US government of being an accomplice to the attack. CIA documents released in 2005 indicate that the agency "had concrete advance intelligence, as early as June 1976, on plans by Cuban exile terrorist groups to bomb a Cubana airliner." Former CIA terrorist operative Luis Posada Carrilesdenies involvement but provides many details of the incident in his book Caminos del Guerrero (Way of the Warrior).[1][2]

Four men were arrested in connection with the bombing, and a trial was held in Venezuela. Freddy Lugo and Hernán Ricardo Lozano were each sentenced to 20-year prison terms. Orlando Bosch was acquitted and later moved to Miami, Florida, where he lived until his death on April 27, 2011. Luis Posada Carriles was held for eight years while awaiting a final sentence but eventually fled. He later entered the United States, where he was held on charges of entering the country illegally, but was released on April 19, 2007.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

This is obviously an outrage. All this peaceful Muslim was trying to do was to peacefully support the murder of innocent women and children in Israel just like his religion teaches him.

 

This is just another case of Islamophobes being intolerant in not allowing this man his freedom of religion. He should be allowed to help murder people because that's his belief and as we all know, beliefs confer magical absolute rights once asserted. Especially if they come from a magical book.

Here is Numbers 31 of the Bible. If the contents of the Qur'an make Muslims kill, rob and plunder as you stated above, how come Jews and Christians don't kill, rob and plunder after reading the Bible passages like Numbers 31 below?

 

 

My Dear Friend,

 

I absolutely concur without hesitation that the Bible (Old and New Testaments) contain many instances of violence, genocide, and general barbarism. That Islam is some unique kind of religion in this textual respect is not my claim at all.

 

My claim is very simple and very limited. Whereas other ancient desert-based superstitions (such as Judaism and Christianity) have progressed and have come up with reformations that essentially neuter these verses which call for and tolerate barbarism, Islam lags behind.

 

Mainstream Islam (not the ISIS faction who are a very small minority) still rely on the violent verses of the Quran and the "perfect example" of Muhammad which lead them to do very anti-modern and sometimes barbarous things.

 

There is no so-called moderate Islamic country which will not kill gays, kill apostates, oppress minorities, oppress women etc etc. The difference among Muslim majority states is one of scale and severity.

 

This is not some gratuitous slam at Islam because I hate Muslims. It is a frank statement of the state of modern Islam.

 

The only truly moderate Muslims exist as minorities in Western Christian societies where they do not have the political power to oppress gays, women, minorities, and apostates.

 

Those are "moderate" Muslims not by choice but by the coercive nature of the civil law and the demographic advantage of the infidels.

 

Look at what obtains in the states of the world where your religious ideology dominate. Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate. What makes them so different than their Christian counterparts in the West?

Thank you very much. You have proven my case that despite of the similar textual contents of the two book, on set of people have progressed to new heights while the other has either remained stagnated or regressed (yes I dare say regressed). That has more to do with their level of maturity than the actual content of the two books. I even recently pointed out that the Gita opened up with a war scene yet Hindus are generally very peaceful people. In conclusion my opinion is that it is disingenuous to assail the Qur'an for the evil actions of a small part of the Muslim population. While I can make the same point for any religious I will confine it to the Qur'an by saying that while there are verses that are troublesome, the vast majority are beautiful passages encouraging their adherents to pursue life in peace and harmony with their neighbors irrespective of their neighbors' faith. And there is no part of the Qur'an that encourage Muslims to not improve their conditions. It fact it states that God does not improve the condition of a person until that person changes that which is within them. This one is even more pronounced that states that when the call to prayer is sounded, Muslims should go to prayer and when they are finished, they should disperse in the land and seek of the bounties of God. That clearly mean that Muslims were encouraged way back in the 7th century that they should not be lungeras. But they did not heed the advise.  

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Pointblank:

you really like to peddle garbage. read properly the man was found NOT GUILTY but because he refused to spy for the govt he was deported.

 

I'm sure this is just America picking on a poor innocent Muslim just because of America's anti-Muslim policy. Because you know, that's what Obama's Justice Dept does.

mORE GARBAGE FROM YOU!!

 

God bless America!!! This is the best place for everyone including muslims. The rights and privileges that we muslims enjoy here is even better than places like Egypt, Saudi and a host of other countries.

 

 

Chief
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
My Dear Friend,

 

I absolutely concur without hesitation that the Bible (Old and New Testaments) contain many instances of violence, genocide, and general barbarism. That Islam is some unique kind of religion in this textual respect is not my claim at all.

 

My claim is very simple and very limited. Whereas other ancient desert-based superstitions (such as Judaism and Christianity) have progressed and have come up with reformations that essentially neuter these verses which call for and tolerate barbarism, Islam lags behind.

 

Mainstream Islam (not the ISIS faction who are a very small minority) still rely on the violent verses of the Quran and the "perfect example" of Muhammad which lead them to do very anti-modern and sometimes barbarous things.

 

There is no so-called moderate Islamic country which will not kill gays, kill apostates, oppress minorities, oppress women etc etc. The difference among Muslim majority states is one of scale and severity.

 

This is not some gratuitous slam at Islam because I hate Muslims. It is a frank statement of the state of modern Islam.

 

The only truly moderate Muslims exist as minorities in Western Christian societies where they do not have the political power to oppress gays, women, minorities, and apostates.

 

Those are "moderate" Muslims not by choice but by the coercive nature of the civil law and the demographic advantage of the infidels.

 

Look at what obtains in the states of the world where your religious ideology dominate. Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate. What makes them so different than their Christian counterparts in the West?

so much low-hanging fruit on this tree of the intellectually impoverished, i don't know where to start

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

as to "oppressing minorities" being an "Islamic" trait; this is foolishness akin to saying that adultery, wife beating, or horse stealing, or dissembling is a muslim thing . . . risible in the extreme and deserving of ONLY ridicule for the jackass addled enough to even think it

 

further, shaitaan, . . . what kind of corrupt argumentation is this?:

 

"Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate."

 

huh??!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
 

so much low-hanging fruit on this tree of the intellectually impoverished, i don't know where to start

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

as to "oppressing minorities" being an "Islamic" trait; this is foolishness akin to saying that adultery, wife beating, or horse stealing, or dissembling is a muslim thing . . . risible in the extreme and deserving of ONLY ridicule for the jackass addled enough to even think it

 

further, shaitaan, . . . what kind of corrupt argumentation is this?:

 

"Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate."

 

huh??!

It is my hope that the wickedness that Muslims get involved in does not go unaddressed because after all some of it is horrendous. Unfortunately on so many occasions the problem gets drowned out by all the unnecessary noises by both apologetic Muslims and vehement oppositions. There is indeed a lot of house cleaning that Muslims need to address. Trying to bastardize the entire religion may not be the best approach. 

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by redux:
 

so much low-hanging fruit on this tree of the intellectually impoverished, i don't know where to start

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

as to "oppressing minorities" being an "Islamic" trait; this is nonsense akin to saying that adultery, wife beating, or horse stealing, or dissembling is a muslim thing . . . risible in the extreme and deserving of ONLY ridicule for the jackass addled enough to even think it

 

further, shaitaan, . . . what kind of corrupt argumentation is this?:

 

"Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate."

 

huh??!

It is my hope that the wickedness that Muslims get involved in does not go unaddressed because after all some of it is horrendous. Unfortunately on so many occasions the problem gets drowned out by all the unnecessary noises by both apologetic Muslims and vehement oppositions. There is indeed a lot of house cleaning that Muslims need to address. Trying to bastardize the entire religion may not be the best approach. 

the wickedness of too many Muslims in our time and backwardness of much of the Islamic world is not in question . . . i don't know where you get the idea that it is not being addressed

 

my post is not apologia . . .; it is a necessary refutation of lies and garbage reasoning floating on a mendacious disengagement from history

 

i care not for any religion; fairy tales in the age of science is the bane of aspiring modernity

 

i defend truth and a certain way of life we are privileged to live in the West

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
 

the wickedness of too many Muslims in our time and backwardness of much of the Islamic world is not in question . . . i don't know where you get the idea that it is not being addressed

 

my post is not apologia . . .; it is a necessary refutation of lies and garbage reasoning floating on a mendacious disengagement from history

 

i care not for any religion; fairy tales in the age of science is the bane of aspiring modernity

 

i defend truth and a certain way of life we are privileged to live in the West

I am sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you were apologetic. That was just a general thought about the current dilemma.  

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by redux:
 

so much low-hanging fruit on this tree of the intellectually impoverished, i don't know where to start

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

as to "oppressing minorities" being an "Islamic" trait; this is foolishness akin to saying that adultery, wife beating, or horse stealing, or dissembling is a muslim thing . . . risible in the extreme and deserving of ONLY ridicule for the jackass addled enough to even think it

 

further, shaitaan, . . . what kind of corrupt argumentation is this?:

 

"Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate."

 

huh??!

It is my hope that the wickedness that Muslims get involved in does not go unaddressed because after all some of it is horrendous. Unfortunately on so many occasions the problem gets drowned out by all the unnecessary noises by both apologetic Muslims and vehement oppositions. There is indeed a lot of house cleaning that Muslims need to address. Trying to bastardize the entire religion may not be the best approach. 

Like wow man! Kaz that's exactly IT. You da man.

cain
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by redux:
 

the wickedness of too many Muslims in our time and backwardness of much of the Islamic world is not in question . . . i don't know where you get the idea that it is not being addressed

 

my post is not apologia . . .; it is a necessary refutation of lies and garbage reasoning floating on a mendacious disengagement from history

 

i care not for any religion; fairy tales in the age of science is the bane of aspiring modernity

 

i defend truth and a certain way of life we are privileged to live in the West

I am sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you were apologetic. That was just a general thought about the current dilemma.  

i was more thinking of "apologia" in the sense of defending radical Islam

 

point taken though . . . no worries

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
 

 

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

 

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

Mars
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of 1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

Mars
Last edited by Mars
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct response to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct answer to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

 

Wow, what an impressive achievement!! 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths?

 

 

Mars
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct answer to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

 

Wow, what an impressive achievement!! 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths?

what is it about a "direct response" that u do not understand?

 

put the stink red herring back in your calabash

 

this is a matter of history and analysis . . . the tutorial for Demagoguery 101 can resume after i leave this thread

FM

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

So why did you infuse the 'actions' of a 7th century man into the conversations?

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct answer to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

 

Wow, what an impressive achievement!! 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths?

what is it about a "direct response" that u do not understand?

 

put the stink red herring back in your calabash

 

this is a matter of history and analysis . . . the tutorial for Demagoguery 101 can resume after i leave this thread

What is it about this that you do not understand -

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

Mars
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

pitiful attempt to paper over the ignorance and lies i nailed to the wall

 

how does it feel to be exposed bai?

FM
Originally Posted by Mars:
 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

But today you drive and love that BMW made by that same nation responsible for the death of some 6 million Jews and approximately more than 50 million people. How come they don't get judged anymore for their actions during that era?

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

So why did you infuse the 'actions' of a 7th century man into the conversations?

 

Because Sir, your religion (and on this all schools of fiqh agree) was the "exemplar" of "excellent conduct" and the "perfect man" to be imitated. That's why.

 

It's to point out the conduct from which ISIS et al draw it's "excellent" example. In that, Muhammad is relevant.

 

Do you see any Christians running about trying to impose the Mosaic Model? When you do, I will be happy to attribute their inspired insanity to Moses' "excellent" example.

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

But today you drive and love that BMW made by that same nation responsible for the death of some 6 million Jews and approximately more than 50 million people. How come they don't get judged anymore for their actions during that era?

Wow, you mussi gat some serious powers to see what's in my garage. 

 

I judge the Hitler regime for exactly what they were. Evil.

 

In case you haven't noticed, that regime has been removed from power about 70 years ago. The regime that Redux was so glowingly endorsing was also responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million people. Big difference wouldn't you say?

 

 

Mars
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct answer to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

 

Wow, what an impressive achievement!! 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths?

what is it about a "direct response" that u do not understand?

 

put the stink red herring back in your calabash

 

this is a matter of history and analysis . . . the tutorial for Demagoguery 101 can resume after i leave this thread

What is it about this that you do not understand -

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

i don't think u need to be a part of this conversation bai

 

go pick a fite somewhere else where u mite have a better grasp of the issues involved

 

yaaaawwwn . . .

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

Did you forget that these Ottoman Turks were responsible for the genocide of Armenian Christians which resulted in the deaths of 1.5 million people?

fully aware of the Armenian genocide

 

what's your point?

My point is that you have to take things in its true perspective. You come here singing the praises of the Turks meanwhile they caused the deaths of  1.5 million people and you failed to mention that. It's like trying to sell us some of the positive policies of Hitler.

u need to pay better attention before opening your mouth and braying stupidly

 

i made a couple of narrowly tailored points about a prominent Muslim nation instituting progressive reforms under Sharia law, and eventually abolishing Sharia law completely . . . as a direct answer to claptrap posted here by shaitaan

 

anything else?

 

Wow, what an impressive achievement!! 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths?

what is it about a "direct response" that u do not understand?

 

put the stink red herring back in your calabash

 

this is a matter of history and analysis . . . the tutorial for Demagoguery 101 can resume after i leave this thread

What is it about this that you do not understand -

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

i don't think u need to be a part of this conversation bai

 

go pick a fite somewhere else where u mite have a better grasp of the issues involved

 

yaaaawwwn . . .

Is that your final answer to my question? Lame. I actually didn't expect anything better. 

Mars
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

So why did you infuse the 'actions' of a 7th century man into the conversations?

 

Because Sir, your religion (and on this all schools of fiqh agree) was the "exemplar" of "excellent conduct" and the "perfect man" to be imitated. That's why.

 

It's to point out the conduct from which ISIS et al draw it's "excellent" example. In that, Muhammad is relevant.

 

Do you see any Christians running about trying to impose the Mosaic Model? When you do, I will be happy to attribute their inspired insanity to Moses' "excellent" example.

oi shaitaan, i notice u scampering all over the thread eloquently refusing to deal . . .

 

lol lol

FM
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by redux:
i don't think u need to be a part of this conversation bai

 

go pick a fite somewhere else where u mite have a better grasp of the issues involved

 

yaaaawwwn . . .

Is that your final answer to my question? Lame. I actually didn't expect anything better. 

yeah banna u win

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

pitiful attempt to paper over the ignorance and lies i nailed to the wall

 

how does it feel to be exposed bai?

 

Dude,

 

I respond to almost everyone's response to my post (even my detractors). I assumed you were not some dogmatic apologist for anyone. I was wrong.

 

I hesitate to respond to your nonsense on this thread because the sheer level of stupidity and grasping pains me so much that I'm not unconvinced talking to Kneeru wouldn't be a more profitable endeavor.

 

I confess my weakness. Stupidity is like kryptonite to me. And you just painted this whole thread in dangerous levels of kryptonite.

 

I don't know how to respond to someone who drags up a decree from an Ottoman sultan in 1858 to deal with the issue of the condition of gays in the Islamic world in 2015.

 

Were you a patient, I'd pull your plug since your case seems lost.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
My Dear Friend,

 

I absolutely concur without hesitation that the Bible (Old and New Testaments) contain many instances of violence, genocide, and general barbarism. That Islam is some unique kind of religion in this textual respect is not my claim at all.

 

My claim is very simple and very limited. Whereas other ancient desert-based superstitions (such as Judaism and Christianity) have progressed and have come up with reformations that essentially neuter these verses which call for and tolerate barbarism, Islam lags behind.

 

Mainstream Islam (not the ISIS faction who are a very small minority) still rely on the violent verses of the Quran and the "perfect example" of Muhammad which lead them to do very anti-modern and sometimes barbarous things.

 

There is no so-called moderate Islamic country which will not kill gays, kill apostates, oppress minorities, oppress women etc etc. The difference among Muslim majority states is one of scale and severity.

 

This is not some gratuitous slam at Islam because I hate Muslims. It is a frank statement of the state of modern Islam.

 

The only truly moderate Muslims exist as minorities in Western Christian societies where they do not have the political power to oppress gays, women, minorities, and apostates.

 

Those are "moderate" Muslims not by choice but by the coercive nature of the civil law and the demographic advantage of the infidels.

 

Look at what obtains in the states of the world where your religious ideology dominate. Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate. What makes them so different than their Christian counterparts in the West?

so much low-hanging fruit on this tree of the intellectually impoverished, i don't know where to start

 

i know . . . let's start with the seat of the last Caliphate - Ottoman TURKEY!

 

which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I . . . way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI

 

a contemplation of the Turkish civil code and Turkish civil society, Erdogan and the AKP notwithstanding, should cool this foolishness about "kill[ing] apostates," "oppressing women," etc., etc.

 

as to "oppressing minorities" being an "Islamic" trait; this is foolishness akin to saying that adultery, wife beating, or horse stealing, or dissembling is a muslim thing . . . risible in the extreme and deserving of ONLY ridicule for the jackass addled enough to even think it

 

further, shaitaan, . . . what kind of corrupt argumentation is this?:

 

"Point me to the moderate Muslim societies! And since you can't, tell me why they aren't moderate."

 

huh??!

FM
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

But today you drive and love that BMW made by that same nation responsible for the death of some 6 million Jews and approximately more than 50 million people. How come they don't get judged anymore for their actions during that era?

Wow, you mussi gat some serious powers to see what's in my garage. 

 

I judge the Hitler regime for exactly what they were. Evil.

 

In case you haven't noticed, that regime has been removed from power about 70 years ago. The regime that Redux was so glowingly endorsing was also responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million people. Big difference wouldn't you say?

 

 

Not necessarily. Redux referred to the Turks of 1958 while the genocide began in 1915. Different people.

FM
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

But today you drive and love that BMW made by that same nation responsible for the death of some 6 million Jews and approximately more than 50 million people. How come they don't get judged anymore for their actions during that era?

Wow, you mussi gat some serious powers to see what's in my garage. 

 

I judge the Hitler regime for exactly what they were. Evil.

 

In case you haven't noticed, that regime has been removed from power about 70 years ago. The regime that Redux was so glowingly endorsing was also responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million people. Big difference wouldn't you say?

 

 

Not necessarily. Redux referred to the Turks of 1958 while the genocide began in 1915. Different people.

 

1858!

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Here we go again. A conversation about 2015 Islamic behavior always veers to 12th century Crusaders and now an 1858 law code change by an extinct empire. This is how far apologists must reach to defend Islam's 2015 barbarism.

 

I'd like to have a 2015 conversation for once with a PPP/Coolie and a Muslim apologist. But I'm not holding my breath.

So why did you infuse the 'actions' of a 7th century man into the conversations?

 

Because Sir, your religion (and on this all schools of fiqh agree) was the "exemplar" of "excellent conduct" and the "perfect man" to be imitated. That's why.

 

It's to point out the conduct from which ISIS et al draw it's "excellent" example. In that, Muhammad is relevant.

In this case Muhammad has to admired far more than ridiculed. Just from the vast amount of his decent law abiding followers compared to his wicked ones.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by Mars:
 

 

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

 

I wouldn't expect anything better from a narrow minded fool who goes around shaking his head. You need to put things in its true perspective before you start flapping your jaws aimlessly.

But today you drive and love that BMW made by that same nation responsible for the death of some 6 million Jews and approximately more than 50 million people. How come they don't get judged anymore for their actions during that era?

Wow, you mussi gat some serious powers to see what's in my garage. 

 

I judge the Hitler regime for exactly what they were. Evil.

 

In case you haven't noticed, that regime has been removed from power about 70 years ago. The regime that Redux was so glowingly endorsing was also responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million people. Big difference wouldn't you say?

 

 

Not necessarily. Redux referred to the Turks of 1958 while the genocide began in 1915. Different people.

 

1858!

Thank you good sir. That is what I meant.

FM

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