Forbes Burnham "dictator and despot" name does resurrected to rile up the PPP base.

Bharat Jagdeo the living wannabe "dictator"  his ambitions was curtailed by CCJ, still in the forefront parading as if he important.

FYI, Jagdeo was a TWO Term DEMOCRATICALLY Elected President.

yuji22 posted:

FYI, Jagdeo was a TWO Term DEMOCRATICALLY Elected President.

Any one doubt that, that's the end correct ?

What was the motive to circumvent such ?

All Jagdeo  did as president was making himself and his friends rich, while kicking his voters to the curb, to suffer.  

Jgdeo is the GREATEST Statesman the Caribbean ever produced so naturally he will be a reference for PROGRESS and HUMANITY.

And Champion of the Earth.

Champion!!  Champion. Bharat was a Champion, Mandela was a Champion, Richards was a Champion, Gandhi was a Champion.

Gilbakka posted:

Forbes Burnham did not run for president since 1980. But in this GNI Political Forum anti-PNC posters rig up and revile his name incessantly.

Bharrat Jagdeo did not run for president since 2006. But in this same forum anti-PPP posters dig up and denigrate his name incessantly.

Why? What's the reason for the ongoing hostility and repugnance their names evoke in this forum? Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated.

Born in the land called Guiana, I was wild and free. Free from prejudices and vindictiveness, just like Forbes.

Guyana, the name change gave Power, and Elitist Blacks influenced Odo to practice prejudices against the East Indians.

Jagdeo a product of Burnham's tyranny was molded into a vindictive soul for survival. He is like this big tree that provides such a huge shade that nothing is permitted to grow.

I think of open fields, endless gaffing in the evening, all kinds of fruit sweet like a sexy woman. And dem two skonts dat tek away me reliving meh boyhood days I had in Guiana.

Gilbakka posted:

Forbes Burnham did not run for president since 1980. But in this GNI Political Forum anti-PNC posters rig up and revile his name incessantly.

Bharrat Jagdeo did not run for president since 2006. But in this same forum anti-PPP posters dig up and denigrate his name incessantly.

Why? What's the reason for the ongoing hostility and repugnance their names evoke in this forum? Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated.

Gilly,

You are not the type here to cuss down people, and in good form you raise some interesting questions...which if often above the head of KP and Skeldon-Man.

So here is my 2 Guyanese cents.

VishMahabir posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Forbes Burnham did not run for president since 1980. But in this GNI Political Forum anti-PNC posters rig up and revile his name incessantly.

Bharrat Jagdeo did not run for president since 2006. But in this same forum anti-PPP posters dig up and denigrate his name incessantly.

Why? What's the reason for the ongoing hostility and repugnance their names evoke in this forum? Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated.

Gilly,

You are not the type here to cuss down people, and in good form you raise some interesting questions...which if often above the head of KP and Skeldon-Man.

So here is my 2 Guyanese cents.

Vish ,I think you like me, you could have glorify Gill without demean others.

Well said Seignet and very emotional.

Those two AHs destroyed our homeland, by their selfish policies, that continue to destroy a people. 

Perhaps the other people here who are well versed about Guyanese history can comment also. 

A lot of this is historically based, and aggravated by racial antagonisms between the two main groups, Afros and Indos, and aggravated by political leaders on both sides who see the others as enemies, rather than fellow Guyanese. Both sides claim moral authority by invoking the good side of their own leaders.

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

I might be a loner here for saying that Burnham had some good qualities (preserving Guyanese territory, helping the oppressed in Africa, nationalist, etc). By the same token Indos dont see that part of him, but they focus on his dictatorial side, assassination of Rodney, etc. 

So your question should be directed at seeking out the "GNIers". My guess is you will see that just like Guyana, the Indos and Afros have also dug in their heels. So the antagonism continue. 

The attempts by the WPA and AFC to represent an alternative have failed, partly because Guyanese cannot see beyond their own communal experiences.

Nehru posted:

Champion!!  Champion. Bharat was a Champion, Mandela was a Champion, Richards was a Champion, Gandhi was a Champion.

CAN BHARRAT JAGDEO REALLY MAKE MONEY GROW ON TREES?

JOHN MAIR PAPER FOR YESU PERSAUD CENTRE CONFERENCE ON ECO AESTHETICS AND THE CARIBBEAN

IS JAGDEO CHAMPION OF THE EARTH OR CHUMPION OF THE EARTH?

President Bharrat Jagdeo likes laps of honours. Last Friday in the National Stadium which he built there was an afternoon of paeans of praise to the Comrade Leader for his twelve years in office. Politicians. vice chancellors,self styled bishops and Sir Sonny Ramphal-late of this parish –were in full flow ‘he has helped to cast a pebble into what was an indifferent sea, and the ripples it created are slowly becoming irresistible waves,” said Sir Ramphal,as the Guyana Chronicle so accurately called him.

Jagdeo sat and soaked in all the praise as he did when he was made a UN Champion of the Earth in South Korea in 2010.He was one of six that year garlanded though you have to search to find that fact out .

But with his low carbon development strategy is BJ not Champion butCHUMPIONof the earth?

LCDS;THE WAY FORWARD OR A CUL DE SAC?

The low carbon development strategy first articulated in 2009 by Jagdeo is very simple in essence. Guyana will not chop down the trees in her sixteen million hectares of Amazon rain-forest in return for the developed world paying her hundreds of millions of US dollars in multi-national carbon credits which will be used to take the country to a higher stage of development. President Jagdeo seems to be defying the old English proverb Money doesn't grow on trees .

In the world of the LCDS you get money to grow on trees but by NOT doing anything to them.

Will it work?Is it fatally flawed.No and yes

WILL LCDS LEAVE THE STAGE WITH JAGDEO?

Bharrat Jagdeo will leave the office of the President of Guyana after the expected general election on November 14ththis year. He is term limited and has done two and a bit already .

Handing over the levers of power which he has so tightly clasped will not be easy for Jagdeo. Much discussion in Guyana centres on him playing Vladimir Putin to Donald Ramator’s Dmitry Medvedev. The PPP is yet to announce a prime ministerial candidate and that could still be Jagdeo. There are also high level rumours swirling around that before he leaves office he will create a super Ministry of Climate Change with much power.

The Head of that Ministry-i will give you three guesses

LCDS FOR BEGINNERS

Put at its’ very simplest LCDS is predicated on the well known ramson aphorism ‘If you don’t give me the money , then I will shoot the baby’(or cut down the trees). Jagdeo set out his stall in 2009 at the Guyana International Conference Centre-another memorial to the Comrade President. Guyana had calculated, or had had calculated, that the forests were worth $600 Million US to the nation each year. They would keep them pristine and un-harvested in return for millions from the REDD-reducing emission through deforestation and forest degradation -fund set up by the UN. This is money paid by governments as trans-national carbon credits to keep the world’s forests intact and slow down climate change. The pot of money was there, Guyana wanted some of it to grow on its trees.

WHERE WILL THE MONEY GO?

Those funds would then be used in development projects such as

-The Amelia Falls Hydroelectric Project deep in the Guyanese interior. A second attempt at harnessing hydro in Guyana.That is being built by a Chinese company but the road to get there is well behind schedule. The contract may for that raises questions.

-The One Laptop per family project. What it says on the tim but for low income families. Visionary to move Guyana forward to the digital reality of the twenty first century.But to get laptops to work you need a national broadband/wi-fi infrastructure. Guyana does not. Ask anybody who has tried to use a laptop in Central Georgetown.

-Specific projects for the Amerindian/Native Indian communities. One which is often mentioned is the proper titling of Amerindian land so historical claims can be put right. Conveniently or not the Amerindians provide the swing vote in any Election

WESTERN GUILT –AGAIN!

All of the availability of REDD and other funds is predicated on Western concerns-or panic or hype,-you decide-on the Climate Change Armageddon and the steps needed to prevent or postpone it. It reached what was supposed to be its zenith with the UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen in December 2009.That was supposed to be the Conference to end all Conferences. World leaders tipped up in scores of private jets. It was an abject failure. No proper treaty emerged.

The new World powers-especially the BRIC (Brazil,Russia,India and China) bloc refused to sing the Western Tunes. The Chinese were not prepared to give up their dash to rapid industrialisation and political power for an environmental principle. That zenith of concern soon became a nadir via the Cancun Conference in 2010 and shows no signs of renaissance for Durban later this year. A clearly frustrated Jagdeo talked in the UN in New York this week of ‘an anaemic delivery on financial pledges made at Copenhagen, and formalised in the Cancun Agreements, is leading to a disastrous breakdown in trust between the developed and developing world’

So Western guilt and money has ebbed and flowed.

Currently it is at a low water mark.

BEFORE THE TIDE WENT OUT

Jagdeo had first developed the LCDS in 2008 with Mckinseys of New York,a ritzy and expensive firm of consultants. The glossy brochure was a very shiny begging bowl. The whole project has been and continues to be largely driven by foreign consultants. I met Stephne Grin the current lead consultant in May in the Office of the President. His background is not Main Street Georgetown but Wall Street Manhattan.

Scandanavia is usually at the forefront of the world’s concerned.The Norwegian government was the first (and last) to throw a tithe into the LCDS begging bowl. They pledged $215M by 2015 with a down payment of $80M in 2009/2010.

Look at that in micro terms-it is $1000US for every man,woman and child in Guyana.

The money was placed with an international intermediary in an escrow account at the World Bank in Washington. It is still there as far as I know. Not one kroner has washed up on Guyanese shores.

WHY? WELL YOU TAKE YOUR PICK

There are several and contrasting explanations/

a.Noise from the Opposition.They will never be in power again-the racial sums do not add up- so the political and journalistic opposition make plenty noise internationally and shout into any ears they can find.The main message is ‘Jagdeo is unfit to govern so too the PPP’. They point to alleged corruption in awarding the Amelia falls road contract to a PPP friend with little experience. There is some truth in that

and they point also to the initial hiccups in awarding the One Laptop Per Family contracts too.

There are signs that their poison in ears is working in Washington

b.Our hands are cleansay the government. The Climate Change unit expresses bewilderment at the stasis. They say it is not the World Bank’s role to place conditional ties on the money ‘It is Guyana’s money not the World Banks’ and that they should pass over the money toute suite to a more neutral banker like the IDB or the CRB.(Caribbean Reserve Bank).It is still in the vault of the World Bank.

LESSONS FROM IWOKRAMA

There is an exemplar-positive and negative; the Iwokrama project also in Guyana. That started with idealism too-one million acres of virgin forest given to the Commonwealth by then President Hoyte in 1989.It was to combine conservation. commerce and science. But in two decades it has lurched from crisis to financial crisis and is now much reduced in scale and ambition. It was saved by money from Jagdeo, parachuting in a white man in Edward Glover in as Chairman and moral support from Prince Charles.

This very summer my son Matthew –whose pictures you are seeing-went to Iwokrama for four days. I too went a decade ago. It was struggling then, it is struggling now. This summer there were just five pure paying tourists and about a dozen students and teachers on scientific projects. External income cannot be big. This is not a business by a long stretch. Iwokrama is stlll firmly in the intensive care ward.

SO DOES MONEY GROW ON TREES OR NOT

On balance the situation in 2011 is redolent of that one hundred years and two hundred years ago. Guyana is a small part of a globalised market with globalised market forces which move much swiftly these days .Those market forces are subject to imperialist whim but that of the new imperialists-China and India to the fore.

This time the trade is not sugar or the gold of El Dorado it is carbon credits and virgin forests.The rich nations-the market makers-decide the price and even if there is a market at all.

Money,sadly ,does not grow on those trees.

Even Jagdeo cannot defy the proverb.

John Mair 22.09.2011

1500 words

Django,

you flooding the man's thread with info that is not answering his query...we know you have good research skills.

Gilbakka posted:

Forbes Burnham did not run for president since 1980. But in this GNI Political Forum anti-PNC posters rig up and revile his name incessantly.

Bharrat Jagdeo did not run for president since 2006. But in this same forum anti-PPP posters dig up and denigrate his name incessantly.

Why? What's the reason for the ongoing hostility and repugnance their names evoke in this forum? Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated.

Gilbakka, you was anti-PPP not so long ago on this forum. Why? Shouldn't you start first?

VishMahabir posted:

Django,

you flooding the man's thread with info that is not answering his query...we know you have good research skills.

Sorry kiddo, that's for the bhai Nehru.

VishMahabir posted:

Perhaps the other people here who are well versed about Guyanese history can comment also. 

A lot of this is historically based, and aggravated by racial antagonisms between the two main groups, Afros and Indos, and aggravated by political leaders on both sides who see the others as enemies, rather than fellow Guyanese. Both sides claim moral authority by invoking the good side of their own leaders.

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

I might be a loner here for saying that Burnham had some good qualities (preserving Guyanese territory, helping the oppressed in Africa, nationalist, etc). By the same token Indos dont see that part of him, but they focus on his dictatorial side, assassination of Rodney, etc. 

So your question should be directed at seeking out the "GNIers". My guess is you will see that just like Guyana, the Indos and Afros have also dug in their heels. So the antagonism continue. 

The attempts by the WPA and AFC to represent an alternative have failed, partly because Guyanese cannot see beyond their own communal experiences.

 

Since, this is a generational problem, it goes without saying that the race will continue to be between the PPP and PNC, the two main parties. 

Both major parties have ensure this reality by immobilizing any third force that seeks to break the racial gap.

So I can conclusively say 2 things here:

1) Neither the PPP or PNC have convinced the other side to that they can attract members from the other side.

2) All of the harmonious, multiracial, "all abe a one people" pictures of Jagdeo dem PPP GNIers post here are simply hysteria...Guyana's election will continue to reflect the racial division... 

VishMahabir posted:

VishMahabir posted:

Perhaps the other people here who are well versed about Guyanese history can comment also. 

A lot of this is historically based, and aggravated by racial antagonisms between the two main groups, Afros and Indos, and aggravated by political leaders on both sides who see the others as enemies, rather than fellow Guyanese. Both sides claim moral authority by invoking the good side of their own leaders.

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

I might be a loner here for saying that Burnham had some good qualities (preserving Guyanese territory, helping the oppressed in Africa, nationalist, etc). By the same token Indos dont see that part of him, but they focus on his dictatorial side, assassination of Rodney, etc. 

So your question should be directed at seeking out the "GNIers". My guess is you will see that just like Guyana, the Indos and Afros have also dug in their heels. So the antagonism continue. 

The attempts by the WPA and AFC to represent an alternative have failed, partly because Guyanese cannot see beyond their own communal experiences.

 

Since, this is a generational problem, it goes without saying that the race will continue to be between the PPP and PNC, the two main parties. 

Both major parties have ensure this reality by immobilizing any third force that seeks to break the racial gap.

So I can conclusively say 2 things here:

1) Neither the PPP or PNC have convinced the other side to that they can attract members from the other side.

2) All of the harmonious, multiracial, "all abe a one people" pictures of Jagdeo dem PPP GNIers post here are simply hysteria...Guyana's election will continue to reflect the racial division... 

Fortunately, Guyana is not in such an extreme situation like the "intifada" stone throwing Arabs vs the "Goliath Jewish state". Most of the population of Guyana are young people, and with the oil economy, there is still the promise of hope for that country.

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

Baseman posted:

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

No wife and kids to enjoy his big mansion.

Leonora posted:

Baseman posted:

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

No wife and kids to enjoy his big mansion.

He gatt a wife...he just don't know he gatt a wife!!  But me tinks bedroom door still lock!

Leonora posted:

Baseman posted:

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

No wife and kids to enjoy his big mansion.

Dem seh dat he want wan young cow but no calves. Perhaps a bull cow. I dunno. 

VishMahabir posted:

Perhaps the other people here who are well versed about Guyanese history can comment also. 

A lot of this is historically based, and aggravated by racial antagonisms between the two main groups, Afros and Indos, and aggravated by political leaders on both sides who see the others as enemies, rather than fellow Guyanese. Both sides claim moral authority by invoking the good side of their own leaders.

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

I might be a loner here for saying that Burnham had some good qualities (preserving Guyanese territory, helping the oppressed in Africa, nationalist, etc). By the same token Indos dont see that part of him, but they focus on his dictatorial side, assassination of Rodney, etc. 

So your question should be directed at seeking out the "GNIers". My guess is you will see that just like Guyana, the Indos and Afros have also dug in their heels. So the antagonism continue. 

The attempts by the WPA and AFC to represent an alternative have failed, partly because Guyanese cannot see beyond their own communal experiences.

 

The country needs A MAN who say to the citizens, "Let me do some good things for each of you. Doan yuh tink yuh deserve it?"

VishMahabir posted:

Perhaps the other people here who are well versed about Guyanese history can comment also. 

A lot of this is historically based, and aggravated by racial antagonisms between the two main groups, Afros and Indos, and aggravated by political leaders on both sides who see the others as enemies, rather than fellow Guyanese. Both sides claim moral authority by invoking the good side of their own leaders.

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

I might be a loner here for saying that Burnham had some good qualities (preserving Guyanese territory, helping the oppressed in Africa, nationalist, etc). By the same token Indos dont see that part of him, but they focus on his dictatorial side, assassination of Rodney, etc. 

So your question should be directed at seeking out the "GNIers". My guess is you will see that just like Guyana, the Indos and Afros have also dug in their heels. So the antagonism continue. 

The attempts by the WPA and AFC to represent an alternative have failed, partly because Guyanese cannot see beyond their own communal experiences.

 

Hey Vishy, how Indians see it, while Burnham helped the Africans fight Apartheid and racial oppression in Africa, he practiced his own form of Apartheid and racial oppression in Guyana!  The people at the other end of the steel booths and bayonets were [mostly] Indians!!  Other races also paid a price!

VishMahabir posted:

 

I believe Indos believe that Jagdeo did some good for Guyana (reducing debts, reviving the economy, etc) but his non supporters saw in him corruption, abuse of power, etc.

 

 

How did he reduce the debts? How did he revive the economy? Please show some stats to support your statements.

Leonora posted:

Baseman posted:

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

No wife and kids to enjoy his big mansion.

Are you volunteering to be the " wife "   ?  lol

Ahhh so that was Leonora's plan all along..ahaaa.

Churchill, da girl gonna post the emoticon with one banna beatin up another..just for you..hehe

Churchill posted:

Leonora posted:

Baseman posted:

Love him or hate him, BJ is the most powerful political leader in Guyana!  The guy has absolutely nothing else to do with his life, so PNC, watch out!

No wife and kids to enjoy his big mansion.

Are you volunteering to be the " wife "   ?  lol

I don’t think she can compete with the groupies already lined up with their high hopes. 😀

Mars posted:

I don’t think she can compete with the groupies already lined up with their high hopes. 😀

Thanks, Mars. I have someone. 

Jagdeo can borrow one of my Sweethoman if he nah gat one

Django posted:

Forbes Burnham "dictator and despot" name does resurrected to rile up the PPP base.

Bharat Jagdeo the living wannabe "dictator"  his ambitions was curtailed by CCJ, still in the forefront parading as if he important.

Sir Gilly, I think this is the best answer on the thread.

Prince asked a good question too. We'd like your answer.

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

I noticed that posters are peeping in to see when other posters press the like button. There should be a feature to hide your likes. 

I don’t want other posters to know when I press the like button. 

Gilbakka posted:

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

You should give an opinion.  This thread has become a forum to denigrate two former Presidents of Guyana by people who cannot walk in their shoes.  We may not like one President or another but that does not give anyone the right to make them laughing stock or mockery by people who have nothing else to do with their time.  

yuji22 posted:

I noticed that posters are peeping in to see when other posters press the like button. There should be a feature to hide your likes. 

I don’t want other posters to know when I press the like button. 

For being a free member, you have a lot of demands!

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

You should give an opinion.  This thread has become a forum to denigrate two former Presidents of Guyana by people who cannot walk in their shoes.  We may not like one President or another but that does not give anyone the right to make them laughing stock or mockery by people who have nothing else to do with their time.  

You have opinions.....about who is thief, robbers, fraudsters, sleeping around, etc. don’t you?  And none of the people you opine on are politicians.  So you ARE a fully entrenched member of the cesspool club!!  

Stop preaching your gospel.  Don’t be a hypocrite!!

Baseman posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

You should give an opinion.  This thread has become a forum to denigrate two former Presidents of Guyana by people who cannot walk in their shoes.  We may not like one President or another but that does not give anyone the right to make them laughing stock or mockery by people who have nothing else to do with their time.  

You have opinions.....about who is thief, robbers, fraudsters, sleeping around, etc. don’t you?  And none of the people you opine on are politicians.  So you ARE a fully entrenched member of the cesspool club!!  

Stop preaching your gospel.  Don’t be a hypocrite!!

Aren’t you sick and tired of telling nasty lies and dragging people in the mud?  Go and get a job and do something meaningful with your life.  

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Baseman posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

You should give an opinion.  This thread has become a forum to denigrate two former Presidents of Guyana by people who cannot walk in their shoes.  We may not like one President or another but that does not give anyone the right to make them laughing stock or mockery by people who have nothing else to do with their time.  

You have opinions.....about who is thief, robbers, fraudsters, sleeping around, etc. don’t you?  And none of the people you opine on are politicians.  So you ARE a fully entrenched member of the cesspool club!!  

Stop preaching your gospel.  Don’t be a hypocrite!!

Aren’t you sick and tired of telling nasty lies and dragging people in the mud?  Go and get a job and do something meaningful with your life.  

You posted it right here for all to read.  It had to be deleted.  No one drag you in mud.  You jump in the mud fest in 2015 and immediately became the best dancing crab 🦀 in the club!!

Gilbakka posted:

Reminder: "Free and frank opinions welcomed and appreciated."

So as not to influence/prejudice posters' views, I recuse myself. Also, I shan't press the LIKE button on anyone's post. Equal treatment to all contributions. 

Making rules as you go along is unfair. If you had recused yourself from the beginning, I wouldn't have to ask you the question below.

Gilbakka, you was anti-PPP not so long ago on this forum. Why?Shouldn't you start first? 

You invited the forum to the cook-up party and frighten to throw in the dry-fish. It isn't going to taste right, bhai.