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seignet posted:

"I do not punish fools lightly" is a phrase commonly used 20 years back on this BB. 

 

You do know that is an old saying right? it has roots in not "suffering fools gladly" which was the old English version. Suh is not juss me duz use dis expression bai.

Alyuh is something else. When I fuss registered Bibi seh I was Quantum. Den alyuh seh I wuz somebody named Redux. Then I'm Ronan. Then D2. Then Stormborn, who I understand is also D2.

Now I see why nobody else bothers to register fuh post. alyuh rass mad!

FM
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

"I do not punish fools lightly" is a phrase commonly used 20 years back on this BB. 

 

You do know that is an old saying right? it has roots in not "suffering fools gladly" which was the old English version. Suh is not juss me duz use dis expression bai.

Alyuh is something else. When I fuss registered Bibi seh I was Quantum. Den alyuh seh I wuz somebody named Redux. Then I'm Ronan. Then D2. Then Stormborn, who I understand is also D2.

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

FM
seignet posted:

no, quite sane.

only one chap who use that phrase.

never was used by others.

  • doan get touchy, i juss seying 

You are getting senile. I seldom repeat a phrase. I do have a writing style  but it is internal to sentences. I would call people names but I do not say I am out to punish anyone. In any event, you are getting close to your expiration date...mentally.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

"I do not punish fools lightly" is a phrase commonly used 20 years back on this BB. 

 

You do know that is an old saying right? it has roots in not "suffering fools gladly" which was the old English version. Suh is not juss me duz use dis expression bai.

Alyuh is something else. When I fuss registered Bibi seh I was Quantum. Den alyuh seh I wuz somebody named Redux. Then I'm Ronan. Then D2. Then Stormborn, who I understand is also D2.

Now I see why nobody else bothers to register fuh post. alyuh rass mad!

I wanted to change my name periodically and do because I stop posting periodically. I was away for a year until recently.At each time I change I ask Amral to delete the old one. He seems to like them so I used them. You can check the site for the threads where I asked for the deletions if they are still here. I have fallen back to using D2 because it is the one I used longest. Stormborn still exist and I will begin to use it again in the spring. I do not use any other. 

FM
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

You must be some hermaphrodite reptile with the sole purpose of using GNI to solicit  Men , I suggest you are on the wrong site and craving for my attention I don't play your game. Go back to the Gay Bars you might get lucky.

K
D2 posted:
seignet posted:

no, quite sane.

only one chap who use that phrase.

never was used by others.

  • doan get touchy, i juss seying 

You are getting senile. I seldom repeat a phrase. I do have a writing style  but it is internal to sentences. I would call people names but I do not say I am out to punish anyone. In any event, you are getting close to your expiration date...mentally.

S
seignet posted:
D2 posted:
seignet posted:

no, quite sane.

only one chap who use that phrase.

never was used by others.

  • doan get touchy, i juss seying 

You are getting senile. I seldom repeat a phrase. I do have a writing style  but it is internal to sentences. I would call people names but I do not say I am out to punish anyone. In any event, you are getting close to your expiration date...mentally.

We all expire eventually, be it mentality or croaked.

I have alot in common with Methuselah, I would be still here when this site takes its last post.

 

S
Baseman posted:
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

"I do not punish fools lightly" is a phrase commonly used 20 years back on this BB. 

 

You do know that is an old saying right? it has roots in not "suffering fools gladly" which was the old English version. Suh is not juss me duz use dis expression bai.

Alyuh is something else. When I fuss registered Bibi seh I was Quantum. Den alyuh seh I wuz somebody named Redux. Then I'm Ronan. Then D2. Then Stormborn, who I understand is also D2.

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

Someone called????

HJ
seignet posted:
cain posted:

Oi man doan do Iman dah bad...Siggy take me to chuch?...hahaaaa...only if they got a rock concert goin on and copious amounts ah weed being consumed.

yuh ever been to a nigerian church? dem ladies duz go down on church music. if there is a church song in dem language, bai yuh ain see nothing yet.

....suh yuh duz come hay and cuss black man, but Sunday yuh gone fuh check out dem big batty black sistas wine up in chuch. yuh lil peculiar bai.

FM
VishMahabir posted:

Mits,

What year was this? I notice the announcer referred to Guyana as a "rapidly progressing country". I wonder what was characterized as "progress" at that time and how far or progressive Guyana has become since then? 

 

I am curious to know how some of the older more mature and knowledgeable folks here feel about this...Gilly, Baseman, D2, Carib, Django...etc.

The 50s was before my time but I have vague memories of the early 60s, largely through observing and listening to the older folks.

BG was a backward country outside of GT, New Amsterdam, McKenzie and the sugar estates (not where the workers lived).  I remember red dirt roads where 4 lane roads exist now.  I remember that in the rural areas they used kerosene lamps, and the trench was a source of more water than the filthy condition would indicate (given that sewerage often ended up there). 

I remember most Indians as being severely impoverished and despised by GT folks as a result.  The little men with their crooked backs begging for grass to feed their cows and selling dirty milk. I remember GT society dominated by the Portuguese and the Red people (a few affluent blacks and Chinese) with the white man at the top. The Englishman was seen as God.  England was the gate way to heaven (which is what so many West Indians discovered was a huge lie when they decided to migrate there.

So I don't know what this "progress" was.  Hard working blacks and Indians managed to achieve some progress in their racially segregated spheres.  Blacks as teachers, nurses, civil servants, tradesmen, and Indians as petty business owners (much smaller than the Portuguese and usually outside of GT) and those farmers who were able to acquire some land.

Cheddi helped out the rural Indians by expanding access to education.  Burnham developed physical infrastructure (drainage and irrigation schemes and expanding electricity and water to rural communities outside of the sugar estates.  Both Cheddi and Burnham expanded education at the secondary and tertiary level.

I will say that the best years for progress in Guyana was in the 1964-70 period, and maybe also in the late 50s.  If only Burnham had retired in 1973 he would have been one of Guyana's heroes but his dastardly acts after the Declaration of Sophia wiped out all of the good that he did in 1964-72.

The early 60s was a terrifying period. I remember the adults always being angry or stressed and racism was rife.  Black and red people vs. Indians.  Black vs. red people and Portuguese.  Whites against everybody, though much of the population felt a deep sense of inferiority to them.  But the whites weren't amused by attempts by the "natives" to improve their lot, so were also angry.  Convinced that "the colony" would end up like Haiti or Cuba by the time the "rabble" (Cheddi and Burnham) were done with it.

All of this was expressed in murmurs as British Guianese were too cowed to voice their true feelings openly and also brainwashed to think that all they were capable of was to stay in their ethnically designated roles.  So teaching was "black man/woman work".  Farming was "coolie people work" Operating a laundry was "Chinee people work" and only whites, Portuguese and red people deserved to work in the banks or at Bookers in non menial roles.  In fact BWIA didn't have black crews until well into the 60s, which showed how pervasive this behavior was throughout the Caribbean.  Definitely no "coolie". I think Trinidad was as bad or maybe even worse than BG.

The British were masters at brainwashing. Analysis of demographic data of the colonial era showed that throughout the Caribbean mass poverty was a fact of life.  Living standards had scarcely improved from the post slavery era and yet most West Indians looked up to them and loved the Queen.  You will see throngs of people cheering as she passed, even as hunger, poor sanitation, miserable wages, and open abuse was their lot from the colonial authorities.

FM
VishMahabir posted:

"Banna, stop being so LAZY!!!! Both videos have the years on them. "

Yo, Lizzy, why you always so quick to put a tongue-lashing on people? I miss the dates on the video. Calm down, drink some maaby.

"People read and research. Do the same. "

 

I understand why the question was asked.  Yes videos are there but do they provide context?  No.  In fact the generation that lived through this era are dying off as those who have greatest clarity will be in the late 70s or 80s.  My recollections from the early 60s come from my vague memories embellished by subsequent conversations with the prior generation, many now deceased.

I have learned that conversations with the older folks are important as it allows the story to be passed down to the younger ones.  People born in the 70s and coming of age in the 80s and later have no idea what the colonial era was about.  They don't know how fortunate they are relative to those who are 80 and over who might be bright, but often restricted by colonial attitudes which assigned people with particular social backgrounds, skin color and ethnicity into particular roles.

And in fact an understanding of that provides insight even now in to how contemporary Guyana is structured. Why Indians and Africans have different notions of ethnic identity and definitions of what a Guyanese is.  Why Africans are risk averse so are reluctant to be involved in farming and  entrepreneurship and why Indians lack respect for people in the social service professions or civic organizations (they were excluded because they weren't Christians).

So yes this conversation is important and its incumbent on those of us like me born in the late 50s to let younger folks know as I was raised by people who were born deep in the colonial era so have some understanding about what life was like then.

FM
Prashad posted:

Ask any white person where British Guiana is and they will say South America. Ask them where Guyana is and they will say Africa and that is the country where Jim Jones killed himself and followers.

Older whites might know BG because they know that there are three weird South American countries all connected to Europe and apparently too backward to have become independent.

Its not that BG was that well known or regarded. It was seen as a miserable, malarial, mosquito and snake infested swamp and a place where no sensible person would want to visit. You might know that we were once called "Mud Heads" by the Islanders for this reason.  British colonial officials received a hardship allowance to compensate being posted to BG and they were also given time to periodically "recuperate" in Barbados.

FM
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

FM
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Mitwah
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Look Carib, don't tek your eyes and pass me before I gave you big brown baigan. Like you obsessed with brown baigan ? I have been civil with you so keep your antiman talk to yourself. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Carib do you know  why the Blacks were given Teaching and nursing jobs? because they  all converted to Christianity and the Whites rewarded them for doing so. Where as the Muslims and Hindus kept their Indian names and refused to convert to Christianity, all the schools were aligned to Churches of England and you had to recite the Lord's Prayer every day. As for Nursing, Salvation Army and Red Cross were the schools and there again ,you had to be a  Christian. Having an Indian name was the stumbling block, it's a No, No, to gain entry into those profession.

But saying all of that many Indians choose to convert and change their names and only then they gained entry into the Teaching and Nursing Profession, they sacrificed their Religion and cultural beliefs just to get ahead. Government jobs were another thing!

K
Last edited by kp
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Suck up to the Black man and sell your soul, you know too much, say who got Black woman? 

K
kp posted:
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Suck up to the Black man and sell your soul, you know too much, say who got Black woman? 

LOL! like you don't know your friends. Ask Yugi, he boasts about his capabilities to get personal info on posters. Did you know BP was in town?

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:
kp posted:
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Suck up to the Black man and sell your soul, you know too much, say who got Black woman? 

LOL! like you don't know your friends. Ask Yugi, he boasts about his capabilities to get personal info on posters. Did you know BP was in town?

Bish Panday,Ronald Reece and myself worked together. Ronald is the owner of Fly Jamaica I met him about a month ago, I heard he was the pilot when the plane crash landed I phoned but no answer for now.

K
kp posted:
Mitwah posted:
kp posted:
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Suck up to the Black man and sell your soul, you know too much, say who got Black woman? 

LOL! like you don't know your friends. Ask Yugi, he boasts about his capabilities to get personal info on posters. Did you know BP was in town?

Bish Panday,Ronald Reece and myself worked together. Ronald is the owner of Fly Jamaica I met him about a month ago, I heard he was the pilot when the plane crash landed I phoned but no answer for now.

We can use initials you know. It's a small world bhai. RR is safe but shaken up. 

Mitwah
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:
cain posted:

Oi man doan do Iman dah bad...Siggy take me to chuch?...hahaaaa...only if they got a rock concert goin on and copious amounts ah weed being consumed.

yuh ever been to a nigerian church? dem ladies duz go down on church music. if there is a church song in dem language, bai yuh ain see nothing yet.

....suh yuh duz come hay and cuss black man, but Sunday yuh gone fuh check out dem big batty black sistas wine up in chuch. yuh lil peculiar bai.

I grow up in Rosignol.

S
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Mits,

What year was this? I notice the announcer referred to Guyana as a "rapidly progressing country". I wonder what was characterized as "progress" at that time and how far or progressive Guyana has become since then? 

 

I am curious to know how some of the older more mature and knowledgeable folks here feel about this...Gilly, Baseman, D2, Carib, Django...etc.

The 50s was before my time but I have vague memories of the early 60s, largely through observing and listening to the older folks.

BG was a backward country outside of GT, New Amsterdam, McKenzie and the sugar estates (not where the workers lived).  I remember red dirt roads where 4 lane roads exist now.  I remember that in the rural areas they used kerosene lamps, and the trench was a source of more water than the filthy condition would indicate (given that sewerage often ended up there). 

I remember most Indians as being severely impoverished and despised by GT folks as a result.  The little men with their crooked backs begging for grass to feed their cows and selling dirty milk. I remember GT society dominated by the Portuguese and the Red people (a few affluent blacks and Chinese) with the white man at the top. The Englishman was seen as God.  England was the gate way to heaven (which is what so many West Indians discovered was a huge lie when they decided to migrate there.

So I don't know what this "progress" was.  Hard working blacks and Indians managed to achieve some progress in their racially segregated spheres.  Blacks as teachers, nurses, civil servants, tradesmen, and Indians as petty business owners (much smaller than the Portuguese and usually outside of GT) and those farmers who were able to acquire some land.

Cheddi helped out the rural Indians by expanding access to education.  Burnham developed physical infrastructure (drainage and irrigation schemes and expanding electricity and water to rural communities outside of the sugar estates.  Both Cheddi and Burnham expanded education at the secondary and tertiary level.

I will say that the best years for progress in Guyana was in the 1964-70 period, and maybe also in the late 50s.  If only Burnham had retired in 1973 he would have been one of Guyana's heroes but his dastardly acts after the Declaration of Sophia wiped out all of the good that he did in 1964-72.

The early 60s was a terrifying period. I remember the adults always being angry or stressed and racism was rife.  Black and red people vs. Indians.  Black vs. red people and Portuguese.  Whites against everybody, though much of the population felt a deep sense of inferiority to them.  But the whites weren't amused by attempts by the "natives" to improve their lot, so were also angry.  Convinced that "the colony" would end up like Haiti or Cuba by the time the "rabble" (Cheddi and Burnham) were done with it.

All of this was expressed in murmurs as British Guianese were too cowed to voice their true feelings openly and also brainwashed to think that all they were capable of was to stay in their ethnically designated roles.  So teaching was "black man/woman work".  Farming was "coolie people work" Operating a laundry was "Chinee people work" and only whites, Portuguese and red people deserved to work in the banks or at Bookers in non menial roles.  In fact BWIA didn't have black crews until well into the 60s, which showed how pervasive this behavior was throughout the Caribbean.  Definitely no "coolie". I think Trinidad was as bad or maybe even worse than BG.

The British were masters at brainwashing. Analysis of demographic data of the colonial era showed that throughout the Caribbean mass poverty was a fact of life.  Living standards had scarcely improved from the post slavery era and yet most West Indians looked up to them and loved the Queen.  You will see throngs of people cheering as she passed, even as hunger, poor sanitation, miserable wages, and open abuse was their lot from the colonial authorities.

For a while, god was an englishman. Never has been so few dominated so many on this planet.

And you are dead wrong about your opinions on British Guiana. New Amterdam had electric lights since in the late forties. Business Indians had motor cars since in the fifties. Everybody went to bed peacefully, never to worry about bandits, because the englishman had law and order covered. 

Sanitation in rural areas was controled by the Sanitary Inspector, from latrine to irrigation. We fished and bath in running streams. We nourished our bodies with produce of the earth and quenched our thirst from Guiana's streams.

Burnham and Cheddie messed it all up with communism, thinking we were like Russia where its people shit on newpaper and threw it out the window.

Weh yuh duz come off from. Dem old ppl yuh had conversations with muss be lying to you. But then again, yuh have the affiliation to swing things your way-prejudicial.

Money is not all for having a good life. No body starved in the foties and fifties. Burnham brought in thiefing and malutrition.

AS Tola said, ppl read this site. And I am obliged to correct you. 

 

S
kp posted:

Carib do you know  why the Blacks were given Teaching and nursing jobs? because they  all converted to Christianity and the Whites rewarded them for doing so. Where as the Muslims and Hindus kept their Indian names and refused to convert to Christianity, all the schools were aligned to Churches of England and you had to recite the Lord's Prayer every day. As for Nursing, Salvation Army and Red Cross were the schools and there again ,you had to be a  Christian. Having an Indian name was the stumbling block, it's a No, No, to gain entry into those profession.

But saying all of that many Indians choose to convert and change their names and only then they gained entry into the Teaching and Nursing Profession, they sacrificed their Religion and cultural beliefs just to get ahead. Government jobs were another thing!

Yuh speaking english is not such a bad thing. Black ppl spoke fluent english whilst the Indians spoke a variety of dialect and broken english by the time they assimilate as Guianese. Many blacks spoke broken english as well. Those blacks who pursued higher education in Guiana had their language and attire honed to suit an english standard.

In the fifties, I attended school who had a muslim headmaster, and he was a muslim , not a christian. There were hindus as well as teachers, men and women.

That fcking communist Jagan, was an athiest, suh the best thing to do was to dish out propaganda shit. And Christianity was his bitch to beat up on. 

The history of the country is not the West on Trial and Caribj's racist bile.

S
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Are you honest?

S
seignet posted:
Mitwah posted:
caribny posted:
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

You shudda register as Huge Organ, you sure wudda get couple PMs!!!

I'm sure, but from dem antiman hay. People like KP would spit he black pudden out he mouth fuh run to he computa and come PM meh. No thanks.

Yes what is most interesting on GNI is the more some folks register public hatred for blacks the more that the lust for them behind closed doors.  Look at druggie advertising his lust for big black baigan and yuji and others getting excited at that prospect.

Caribny, thank you for your contribution. I grew up in the periods you mentioned and can relate to your personal frame of reference. Hope Vish finds it useful. 

Just ignore those two fellas. One of them pretends to be a racist while he is married or living with a black. Go figure.

Are you honest?

Absolutely. I refused to convert to Christianity to get a teaching job. That was one good change that Jagan made.

Mitwah
Last edited by Mitwah
caribny posted:
Prashad posted:

Ask any white person where British Guiana is and they will say South America. Ask them where Guyana is and they will say Africa and that is the country where Jim Jones killed himself and followers.

Older whites might know BG because they know that there are three weird South American countries all connected to Europe and apparently too backward to have become independent.

Its not that BG was that well known or regarded. It was seen as a miserable, malarial, mosquito and snake infested swamp and a place where no sensible person would want to visit. You might know that we were once called "Mud Heads" by the Islanders for this reason.  British colonial officials received a hardship allowance to compensate being posted to BG and they were also given time to periodically "recuperate" in Barbados.

Most of my father's paternal line  are white or mixed with Indian and white, They loved Guyana, lived there and did everything every other person did. I assume because their parents were white they had education and got good jobs or business opportunities but I cannot say they hate Guyana. Even today most that are alive still reminisce  about their home. 

My life was different from you and if marked by any sentiment of disdain it was for the racism of both sides of the power vacuum and also for the Burnham regime. I became a teenager in the seventies and saw a bit of his horrible political construct. I met burnham once in Jamaica at the Guyanese embassy. He was old and fat and somewhat of a clown but by then I was an adult and all I had for him was contempt. He was quite nice to me I must say. That was sometime in the early eighties...82 or 83

FM

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