Lets hear your view of Cheddi.  Just don't start tearing into what I wrote.

My recollection is different. The Portugese, Chinese and wealthy Indians (a significant amount of folks) did not favor nationalization, in so much they fled because they feared it would cost them their businesses. Secondly, there were those (mostly middle class blacks, portugese and "red" man) who held high positions at Bookers etc. and were quite comfortable. They too did not want Burnham or Jagan running things.

 

The support for nationalization came from the hoi polloi who didn't know what marxism, socialism or anything meant. The average canecutter, black laborer / civil service worker were clueless. All they heard was there will be freeness thru socialism, so they wanted it.

 

Another instance where educated Indians, blacks, portugese and chinese were united in their beliefs.

Yes, this is a fair assessment and I recall something along these lines, but what percentage of the population do you think this "group" comprised?

I'll spare you all a fine nuanced analysis as I don't care to waste more ink on that Antiman Cumrag Cheddi.

Thank the gods he dropped dead of a heart attack. In another country and with any other race, he would have gotten the Gandhi treatment. One bullet to a tyrant is better than the decades of suffering he inflicted on Guyana.

Jagan was only worshipped by abbe low class Hindus. He's ayuh gaad. Keep him to ayuhself.

No one cares nor wishes to wash his feet in condensed milk. And ayuh can keep ayuh Blue Eyed Bhowgie to ayuhself.

He's your god. God of abbe dunce Hindus. Praise he at the mandir not the public square.

I guess you have the right to make unsubstantiated comments also.

P.S... The worst insult my mother can give is a reference to someone practicing "Jagan politics." Aka low life Hindu.

So VVP,

How come abbe fullahman dem, abbe Black people, abbe Christians, etc etc doan worship de Lard Cheddi? Only abbe low class hoi polloi (thank u Itame for the reminded) and assorted low class estate coolies. Face it chap, he is only revered among abbe estate Hindu coolies.

VVP,

Your thoughts are no different from the majority of Indians. All of us grew up under Jagan and Indians saw him as a charismatic leader, despite his socialist views. Even when he was in the opposition he was still honest and admired by many.

 

His weakness, and Indian's biggest downfall in Guyana was his ideology. He was not only socialist, he was a Communist with strong ties to Stalinist Russia. As such, he spent his lifetime opposing America and the West, without an understanding that Guyana is in their backyard.

 

You may not have seen this written anywhere but you are smart enough to appreciate the fact that Cheddi is responsible for Indian's predicament in Guyana today. Instead of bringing Indians into the modern era, he kept them tied to a plantation (unlike Singapore's late leader) economy,, and they remain economically and politically docile and backward. Think about it, a socialist is generally a revolutionary who believes in the use of force to remove an unjust government. Cheddi accepted a socialist world view and the socialist economic plan but he disavowed its radical component. He admired Castro and Che but never thought of adopting their radical approach to change.Some would argue that this was the reason why the PPP feels comfortable being in the opposition. The are used to it.

 

Regarding post-1992: Yes Cheddi died too early. He left a set of losers and nincompoops to run the party. They ran the party and PPP-controlled overnment into the ground. 

 

So I would say this: Cheddi and Burnham are both responsible for our problems today. Cheddi takes a bigger part of the blame because he established the first mass based party in Guyana.  In addition, he was outmaneuvered by Burnham abd the west. His ideology was wrong for us...Indians are NOT socialists. Here is the other problem: his dogmatic alliance to the socialist world view preclude his from exploring other plans and options to solve Guyyana's race/ethnic problem. He felt race would disappear when the "working class" unite. In essence, Cheddi was a leader who lived at a different time and could not foresee the issues we face today, such as the West is not our enemy, race is more important than class, etc.

 

Finally, the other downfall of the PPP, which is responsible for it being in the dire situation it is in today is the fact that its democratic centralist top down party structufe does not allow criticism of the leadership. Over the years, the PPP has destroyed, expelled, isolated the intellectual elements within the party.

 

By the way, Rambarack's book on Rai, which I have been rereading recently, has a very good critique of Cheddi. I feel the book is more about Cheddi and his weaknesses.

 

Hope this clarifies some of the issues you raised. Good to see that you are reflecting on the homeland.

dese jaganistanis jus live and breathe Cheddi

Hate to sound like DG, but your conclusions are not based on facts.  By the way, I am not religious.  I believe your "salvation" is based on the work you do on earth today..that line of discussion is for another thread.  I am interested in hearing what people thoughts are.  Make concrete points like Itaname above.

Freaky,

You think abbe Jaganistanis juss cry at dem own papa and mama funeral like dis?

Me certain sure Jagan pickney doan lament and bytch and moan about Jagan's death as much as abbe Jaganistanis.

VVP,

Your thoughts are no different from the majority of Indians. All of us grew up under Jagan and Indians saw him as a charismatic leader, despite his socialist views. Even when he was in the opposition he was still honest and admired by many.

 

His weakness, and Indian's biggest downfall in Guyana was his ideology. He was not only socialist, he was a Communist with strong ties to Stalinist Russia. As such, he spent his lifetime opposing America and the West, without an understanding that Guyana is in their backyard.

 

You may not have seen this written anywhere but you are smart enough to appreciate the fact that Cheddi is responsible for Indian's predicament in Guyana today. Instead of bringing Indians into the modern era, he kept them tied to a plantation (unlike Singapore's late leader) economy,, and they remain economically and politically docile and backward. Think about it, a socialist is generally a revolutionary who believes in the use of force to remove an unjust government. Cheddi accepted a socialist world view and the socialist economic plan but he disavowed its radical component. He admired Castro and Che but never thought of adopting their radical approach to change.Some would argue that this was the reason why the PPP feels comfortable being in the opposition. The are used to it.

 

Regarding post-1992: Yes Cheddi died too early. He left a set of losers and nincompoops to run the party. They ran the party and PPP-controlled overnment into the ground. 

 

So I would say this: Cheddi and Burnham are both responsible for our problems today. Cheddi takes a bigger part of the blame because he established the first mass based party in Guyana.  In addition, he was outmaneuvered by Burnham abd the west. His ideology was wrong for us...Indians are NOT socialists. Here is the other problem: his dogmatic alliance to the socialist world view preclude his from exploring other plans and options to solve Guyyana's race/ethnic problem. He felt race would disappear when the "working class" unite. In essence, Cheddi was a leader who lived at a different time and could not foresee the issues we face today, such as the West is not our enemy, race is more important than class, etc.

 

Finally, the other downfall of the PPP, which is responsible for it being in the dire situation it is in today is the fact that its democratic centralist top down party structufe does not allow criticism of the leadership. Over the years, the PPP has destroyed, expelled, isolated the intellectual elements within the party.

 

By the way, Rambarack's book on Rai, which I have been rereading recently, has a very good critique of Cheddi. I feel the book is more about Cheddi and his weaknesses.

 

Hope this clarifies some of the issues you raised. Good to see that you are reflecting on the homeland.

 

 

Regarding the last issue you raised RE:why did West accept him? You are right. The Cold War was over and the Bush administration could now tolerate a Cheddi Jagan government. In any case, the US was more than willing to accept a democratic government coming to power through free and fair elections. Besides, Guyana was not now in 1992 like Chile in 1973, where US had tremendous economic investment in the country that led them to remove a democratically elected government under Allende. By this time the world had changed and Cheddi was, in any case, not like a radical Fidel Castro. He had also indicated in newspaper interviews that he accepted an end to the Cold War.       

How come ayuh Jaganistanis doan drink some paisin and go jine ayuh gaad? Leff abbe not so dunce coolies to live abbe life in peace

VVP,

I can say more but will await your questions. Hope this helps buddy.

Lol de coolie worle would be a much bettuh place sans jaganistanis

I changed my mind Freaky. I'm now in favor of partition. Guyana must be partitioned. All Jaganites should be expelled to Jaganistan.

This is a serious post Shaits....if you have nothing useful to say, except your usual self-hating coolie nonsense, youshould take Ramjattan's advise and "haul yo arse".

Vish

Self-hating?

Look Antiman, Jagan ain't my god. I was raised thankfully by sensible Muslims and Christians who doan worship rocks and Jagans.

You should be having a discussion with Brother Eusi...but I dont think you are intellectually deep enough to understand that even Kwayana has advanced his arguments.

Cheddie condoned corruption since in the fifties-cronyism, nepotism, rigged election with his party, etc,etc. He was a subversive/saboteur. He glorified everything Stalinist-he sung praises to Stalin's name. That was his god. He is a liar to the nation of Guyana. He destroyed the character of many good decent honest men by telling the masses of Indoes that such men are colonial stooges. Anytime a political organization rose in Guyana to bring progress to the citizens, Cheddie get in its midst convincing the honest that he had the power of Indo votes, And the honest succumb to his charms, only later to be marginalized by the Pappa Doctor.

 

He smiled alot, but never serious about nation building. He believed governance is only WINNING. He cultured a group of crooks. And people still want to believe he was not corrupted-he was corrupted of political decency. However, he in the company of every Guyanese President including Granger.

Awwww Vish hurt my feewlings.

Maybe you doan realize how schupid ayuh look to sensible people with this Jagan dik suckathon.

I now proffer to you the advice and counsel my most noble and illustrious grandfather gives to all Jaganites: " Bai, dis ting good fuh cold and fuh kaff"!

There you go again...bullying people with your pejoratives...sound like a man lacking ample vocabulary. Where on this post do you see people saying Jagan is a God. VVP raised some interesting questions...find another post you foolism man. 

How did he keep indians tied to the plantations?  What should he have done?  What about the indians in the rice industry how they separated from the plantation?

Lmfao @ dicksuckathon
Necropheliacs yikes

Spoken like a true devil!  Like PaPa like GrandPaPa like Son.  I hope the admin take note of your language.

 

Do you have something that could back this up? 

Every Freedom House lout was required by Cumrag Cheddi to have a Russian name. He was "Berret"

Talk about delusional coolies.

Shaitann could you please stay off this thread if you have nothing to contribute.

no other nation in the world mourn fuh a dead president like Guyanese coolies
dis man bin dead fuh almost 2 decades now, move on

The White Paper on the suspension of the 1953 Constitution documents his attendance to Stalinist Rallies in Moscow. He paid homage to the mass murderer. It is good reading-google it. I heard the reading of the Suspension Order in 1953 on the radio. Some 20 years later, I had copy given to me as I was doing a research of that political period. As I read it, I knew it was true to every word. 

Come on Bro. Freak.

Dem hindu bais wanna mourn the Dear Comrade Founder Leader in peace.

Prem se bholo Jaganji! Jai!

He placed heavy emphasis on agriculture, even though understandably Guyana was an agricultural based society and very underdeveloped. However, not much was done to wean Indians away from farming. The PPP manifesto continued to invest in agriculture, as they should, but issues like diversification and the creation of tertiary and quaternary industries around rice and sugar were ignored. For example, when in the 1970s Brazil experienced the oil market shock they invested heavily in ethanol, now making cars using ethanol. Sugar could be packaged and processed and sold to the west. The same with rice, Guyana could have created different varieties and process and package them to be sold to the industrialized countries also. However, innovative ideas were not applied to both industries. Trinidad had long ago dismantled their Caroni sugar plantation by giving the land to the sugar workers. Clive Thomas did a thorough research on the sugar industry and he had long ago argued for diversification. For Cheddi, the sugar and rice workers were vote banks.

The PPP have several monthly publications which make reference to this fact.

You know when a popular person dies, there is myth about them-like Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, Che Guevara. So far the multitude of Indo Guyanese doan have anyone else other than CBJ-it is their CULT.  

See also Stephen Rabe which gives a good summary on US intervention in Guyana. Also the US government has released, under the freedom of information act, a ton of information regarding its relations with Guyana. 

Stop demonizing the greatest Guyanese that ever lived and Father of the Nation, not a crook like Burnham.

 

Jagan saved us from PNC tyranny although it took 28 years. Pity he did not live long enough to rule Guyana.

 

Hopefully, our Coalition will continue Jagan's pro-people policies with Bro. Mose leading the show.

You are so foolish. "Beret" is not a Russian name (like Alexi). You have not read the West on Trial.  If you had, you would have known that Jagan wanted to be westernized like the people he met...thus he substituted Beret for Bharat. Not that I agree with this ....but GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT and stop throwing shite on this thread as if you know what you are talking about. 

He was the father of the nation indeed. Jay, we are engaged in a little bit of introspection,  unlike Shaitaan who wants to SLASH and BURN everything about Jagan.

Repackaging and ethanol would still  require the cane cutters unless the system was mechanized. I think there was and still is a conscious effort to keep people employed and is a the reason why the sugar industry is the way it is.   This new government also seems to view it this way.