neither Jagan, Burnham nor Hoyte subcontracted law enforcement to ANY independent criminal organization . . . Jagdeo in his ignorance did . . .

there is NO comparison

Jagdeo had a different type of adversaries. With the emergence of Indians as the ruling class became a threat. Forbes, Hoyte or Jagan did not have that to deal with.

Kari ... when was Desmond Hoyte democratically elected by the Guyanese voters?

Kari the spinmaster is part of the wrecking crew rewriting Guyans's history. 

no doubt, he certainly did . . . his criminal and undemocratic agenda was the problem

You're correct - Hoyte was never democratically elected. That part of the quote is not mine, it is "T"'s but I should have put a disclaimer on that, but then again I would have to parse every sentence of everyone whom I quote. This does not invalidate the original premise. So do I have your acquiescence on the employment patters at the highest levels?

Indians as ruling class??????????

What's the definition of "Ruling Class" in Guyana? And how do "Indians" fit this definition? Also make the link from protecting one ruling class and the use of this different type of "law enforcement" mentioned by Redux.

Guh suck a plum....or shove a pineapple up yuh battie.

This is a serious thread....stay off it....

Hoyte invented Mo FIAH SLO FIAH dat he MUST be remembered for.. Blackie was his HERO!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Both Burnham and Hoyte reached out to Indian intellectuals and businessmen. Meanwhile Jalil has been pointing out some of the top PPP brass.

like who?

as far as I know party card application forcibly went up and businessmen passed some big bribes.  Many Indian intellectuals (and black) actually left for overseas because of lack of opportunity.

Pavi, with all due respects and in the interest of serious on-point discussion, leave this out, will you?

Let's focus on the employment patterns of the top Brass of both parties, and if there is a link to Hoyte's "mo fiah slo fiah", then state it and show how it influenced the employment patterns.

Fair point TI, but it doesn't address the motivation for the Burnham and Hoyte (undemocratic) regimes to seek out cooperation (you may say coercion) from Mahazaralli, Toolsi Persaud, Yesu Persaud, and having Chandisingh, Ramphal, Shahab, Narine as top brass; versus the Lumumba's, etc, that Jalil refers to.

Out of 1 post and 13 replies we've had only 2 that strayed off-topic. That's good. Let's stay on point and have a decent discussion of this serious aspect of governance - the quality of legislators, advisers, etc.

I can multi task.)

During the entire PNC time if you did not get a Party Card you did not get a Top Position. No one who was a known member of the PPP would get a bloody interview. I was interviewed by the PSC twice and both times was asked by the Receptionist for my Party Card.  This comparission is USELESS!!!

If a PPP member crossed floor, he can be trusted, when a PNC member cross floor you better have the FBI to watch over them.!!!!   Like I said don't mix apples and oranges. Could be that you are not aware of the true PNC.

Correct TI.

And hence, the drain of valuable resources .. intellectuals, business people, ordinary individuals plus of course aspiring young individuals.

Smart response....

Some Indians were SOUGHT after by Burnham/Hoyte (and it might be for selfish reasons).....though your point about needing a party card is very true.

Thanks for the clarification, Kari.

The "T" appeared to be an "I".

Anyway, you have a very good topic.

Good observations D-G.....but stay on-topic here - PNC's employment approach versus PPP when it comes to top Brass. Simple, keep the other things that WE ALL KNOW TO BE TRUE out of this topic.

Spot on Kari.

As I have stated clearly on GNI on focused discussions, when I returned to Guyana as the first Guyanese qualified in the hydroelectric power development area, Forbes Burnham knew quite well that, as a youngster, I am a PPP member since 1958. Despite my political association with the PPP, Forbes Burnham personally appointed me to the public service and also signed my commencement papers as the Prime Minister and also the Minister responsible for the Public Services.

If I did not have the extremely unique qualification needed at that time for hydroelectric power issues, it was quite obvious that I would never have been employed by the then Government.

DEsmond Hoyte was a follower not a Leader. When his Family was in an accident on the Linden Highway he left them on their own to go to the Hospital and got to Linden to deliver a Propaganda Speech for Burnham. Family should come first.

Let's not switch from wine to beers now Pavi. I need to hear from you about the employment of dubious characters from the former PNC regime by the current PPP rulers and the refusal of the British policing assistance at the height of the Phantom/Freedom Fighters turf war in the early-to-mod 2000s. Forget all the flaws of Burnham/Hoyte - they're irrelevant to this discussion. I can open another thread to blast them till the cows come home. We have a situation in front of us to deal with.

Kari, Had the Govt wait for the British help which was coming with many, many attachments, half of Guyana Indians would have died.

Kari, Who you think the PPP should have hired and are you sure those persons would have accepted the PPP offer??? You said you want to be serious so game on.

You have to explain the "Waiting" and "attachments" parts, because the T&T and London Metropolitan police cooperation did not have the elements of "Waiting" and "attachments" you described when they had their drug wars.

Don't you think that the declaration "half of Guyana Indians would have died" has merit, seriously?

I'm looking at the approach of the PPP in its hiring for positions at the top. Now you set the guiding principles and execute. If one principle is "we need thugs to keep order", you then ask "who are the best thugs?".

If it is how best to tackle the economy and law & order, then you ask who is the best at these? If it is to reward party people or to keep personnel who will be loyal andf loyalty trumps competence then you look into that direction.

Those questions are hypothetical now, because we have a fact on the ground right now - the Lumumba's that Jalil writes so often of. Tackle that first and then we can talk of your philosophical question.

Kari, FACT: If not for the Phantoms many, many more Indians would have been killed. I am sure Lumbada was appointed to increase the Vote count hoping that we would have attracted votes from the other side. It was a mistake.

Forbes employed ppl with the knowledge, however they were all about prestige and little on the development of the country. Their efforts were mainly theoretical-international issues. There were very few nation builders Indoes or Afroes. It was the Cold war and it seems Forbes was pre-occopied with it.

The PPP from its inception always had a love affair with mayhem and destructions of the nations assests. Deemed to be Foreign owned. The Jagans thrived at seeking out underprivilized Afroes and cast them into the lime light. Brindly Benn, Victor Downer, Fred Bowman, Ashton Chase and few more in the publics eye were not as educated Forbes Indoes. There were a whole lot of Afroes in lower echelon of the 1953 PPP. For high ranking positions, Cheddie choose foreigners, namely Jack Kelshall is one such appointment.

Cheddie had deep suspicions about Indoes and God help them if they were found in the PNC.

Pre-1992, Cheddie started his recruitment from the goons of the PNC and they have made permanent camps at the OP. Cheddie came to North America touring with a known PNCite turned Calysonian-a red skin fella, his name skips me right now. Those Indians with brains tried extremely hard to offer should advice to Cheddie. He shone them away and held onto Manny and the devious from ACG Canada, ACG America and ACG Britain.

Chedie knew he was going to ROYALLY REAMED Moses Nagamootoo and Ralph Ram Karran-men of dark skin.

He had Jagdeo in mind all along for promotion. He even fired Asgar Ally, an internationally known person for a ruskie economist.

Cheddie quietly practiced discrimination, he hated Indoes and had a natural affiliation towards black folks. Forbes was disillusioned with Afroes for not being industrious, but he loved the Indoes because they made him look good internationally.  

"Lumumba's" are in all political parties in Guyana.

Mr DG is now in bed with Mr Lumumba?

Did the violence beget the Phantom or the other way around?

Remember half the Police Force and GDF were associated in one way or another with the two dueling entities (Phantom and FF).

Interesting Seignet, but looking retrospectively at Jagdeo you have to see qualities in the man that you did not see. As a leader he had his way. He was strong and dominant, and in a way that Burnham's dominance did not match. Now if you say that the dominance each man engendered caused the type of people they each hired to be part of their Administration then you can see a difference.

Yea, and in the 60's Indians paid the price for that.  One thing, Jagdeo give back what was being dished out, now all alyuh lament the deaths of terrorists.

True katahar sentiments.

Hey Shitty-batty face...yuh hanging out on the wrong thread. This is an INTELLIGENT thread. You're lost.....now Get Lost!!!

Coming from a big mouth ignaramous kahatar, anything is intelligent.  To contemplate if the phantoms brought the violence of the violence spawned the phantoms is asinine as a katahar crab dagg one could get.  Don't try dressing it up with fancy words and think it don't smell, it does, and so do you!  Your mouth is just too big for your brain to stay put.  Now, run along run-mouth.

Please check and see who is around the table when decisions are being made in Guyana.

Clue Guyana is as dominated by one race and gender at its upper most levels  as NYC is.