what a useless article . . . "benevolent dictator" eh?

real 21st century insight here

smfh

I don't agree with the benevolent dictator part. But the essay is far from useless.  

it is out of touch, sophomoric and a waste of time

I can see that coming from the AFC.

i am not the AFC . . . common sense should tell u that

Gampat and his  Sumdat excoriated me in the press  and across internet forums for saying similar things as above  20 years ago in an article called Searching for Guyana. I agree  it was poorly sourced badly organized and and lacked proper citations but I was writing my thoughts and not something to be peer reviewed. It's ideas still are the core of me.

They called me anti Indian christian, mimic man, ignorant of the legacy of the indians among other vile names. Presently he is reciting whole cloth  the very same things I said ( except for the benevolent dictator part). I might add I concluded  we need a new bicameral Constitution with overlapping districts prescribing a  form on non territorial federalism to build bonds among our people. I was looking for ways to build institutional fences against ethnic strife that allows for a communitarian space we can organically grow from common human needs based solutions what we can called nationalism.

Gampat was then the kind of person who would put all of Guyana problem on black people as a deficient category of humans from whom one should separate and leave to their own contrivances to bootstrap themselves since they were ankle weights and parasitic on the benevolent hard working indian. Their website with detailing of black people systematic stealing from indians is still to be found on the net. He embraced the philosophy of the RSS and believed in the principles of Hindutva and saw in that philosophy a way for indians in guyana to move ahead bur of course, in their own regions.

Sumdat and , Gampat along with Prakash,  Ravi Dev,  Rahamrack, Rambrick were the mouth pieces of JAIAG, the information storehouse and dissipation medium for ROAR.  I remember one quote from that site that still sticks in my craw and makes me completely alien to their philosophy....it said to paraphrase...indians and blacks together in guyana as one polity is like a black woman wearing a sari...ie ( my summary) it was visually, intellectually, culturally  so obviously an incongruous fit  it was an anathema. That was Gampat in a nutshell.

I do not know how a man who at that time profoundly got black people wrong then can help philosophically with Guyana now. I am surprised the article above was a straight analysis without the usual hints to the benevolent productive indian and the malevolent, cantankerous, lazy predatory black man.  To me, what we see in Cobra now was Gampat then.Yes the article is sound but I want to hear how we walk out of the political quicksand. I doubt a philosophically different Gampat will appear. I hope I am not unfair to a more mature and philosophically enlightened individual. But he considered himself a pandit so he cannot be different. Religious people generally grow in strength faith of their seminal beliefs seldom out of them

One way to make progress might be for both sides to work on a project by project basis...perhaps it will build some confidence. One project might be a national energy policy. This thing will only work if they both can claim ownership...perhaps.

That is the way forward. And every year that I hear David Hinds makes his speech about blacks working to make blacks progressive. I get riled up-and considered his quest racists. And every year I would try to contact him with a plan to make Guyanese cooperative and work together. Never could get hold of him.  Buxton, the place he favors. I have contacted members of his organization in Buxton, it never got anywhere. I contacted Kwame Gilchrist when he was in charge for development in Buxton. Dat din get anywhere either. Even tried Bob Semple from the Radio Station.

I have arrived at the conclusion that they are dead serious about only the participation of blacks. 

I still have a viable plan. It is a start. If u know Hinds, then put me in touch. Perhaps u would want to review my ideas before u put us in touch. Let me know how can share it with u. 

I was thinking at the level of governance. The leaders perhaps could work out a detailed energy policy. When the masses see them work like adults perhaps they will follow also.

Is a good plan-ur idea. The masses wouldn't even recognize the efforts. Guyanese are too deep in their prejudices.

My plan will create employment in the Buxton area. With the potential employment of 50+ individuals.   

I doubt the politicians can put together a sound energy policy.

Quick questions - Remittance is counted in the GDP?  What the diff between GDP and GNP again...I think I remember what it is but just want to make sure.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/GDP_vs_GNP

In a nutshell

GDP:Total value of products & Services produced within the territorial boundary of a country.

GNP:Total value of Goods and Services produced by all nationals of a country (whether within or outside the country).

So Ganpat should not be counting remittance in the GDP??  It should be in GNP??  TK?

Dr. Ganpat has a point here, let us not loosely discount this point of view from the good Doctor.

Originally Posted by TK:

One way to make progress might be for both sides to work on a project by project basis...perhaps it will build some confidence. One project might be a national energy policy. This thing will only work if they both can claim ownership...perhaps.

 

 

 Guyanese have unique stories to tell. Unfortunately, we lack the leadership that could recognize that and build on it. President Granger recognizes it,but some how race politics is holding him back. It appears he has to please some factions.

Sorry to keep bringing up Hinds-his approach is holding back progress in Buxton.

Those who lived in mixed villages have different experiences than those who lived in predominantly Indo and Afro villages.

If a man is earning good money, he gat no time to think about race. Jobs will ease the way.

Hammie Green is on a mission to make GT the Garden City again. More tourists will flock to the city. Business will boom and jobs will be created. Within a decade GT will rival Port of Spain and Bridgetown as the tourism capital of the Caribbean. The economy of the nation will thrive and thrive because of the economic success of this once great city.

Cleaning the place up can be a good thing. May be Hammie can see this as his  penance.  Never before has an opportunity for redemption stared a man in the face more pellucidly. It is up to him to make good with his god. I am not being sarcastic but honest.

I don't think Ganpat did that. It is just normal to mention how large are these gifts and goodies relative to what the nation as a whole produced in the official economy.

The stereotypes run deep, but I am not so sure the vast majority of Indos see Afros as stupid as you said. My suggestion is for the leaders of the two factions to work together towards some big ticket projects so that both sides can claim ownership.

I am not speaking as though this is generally true. It is however think in the air that a discernable stench permeates it. It therefore demands that the leaders refrain from speaking to indian this or that or African this or that and demand everyone respect a communal line. That has to come from the executive and even though underlings may be offended given they will confront the ignorant in the community who say they are square pegs or uneducated and perform their duties to a maximal level that can be defended. This is Granger's burden; to swallow pride and work as though he is defending his sisters place. It is actually his mothers place his brothers place and his children place or Guyana's children's place and he is simply the custodian not the king. The PPP felt they owned the state.

If 85% of the jobs in the civil service of Guyana are occupied by people of African descent how can we charge that the PPP/Civic marginalized Afros from getting jobs in the public sector?  The same question can be asked about the racial composition of when it comes to the Guyana Defense Force and the Guyana Police Force.

Afros have been getting land to build houses just like any other ethnic group. As a matter of fact, the PPP/Civic gov't. made it much easier for AFros to get a house lot than Indos. They did this for political reasons since the opposition has been so vocal and violent in demanding what they want for their supporters.

I have almost the opposite view to you TK.  I think there is a need for a benevolent dictator because very tough decisions have to be made in Guyana.  You need someone with the knowledge and courage to do it.  Possibly this person might be a one-term president because nearly everyone will face negative consequences in the short term.

I think the essay is faulty given the period use to come up with the numbers.  If proper use is made of the technological advancements (internet, credit cards, computers etc.) since the 1990s vigorous growth can be achieved.  Of course you need a complete change in the mindset of Guyanese people....they are too corrupt.

And we see this from rama, yuji, baseman, skeldonman, conscience, and siegnet, and interestingly enough socalled moderate Indian posters are more upset when itaname, caribj, and redux expose this, than by comments made by these racists.

The reality in Guyana is that we have more often seen Africans condemning African racism, then we have seen Indians condemning Indian racism.  The few Indians who do condemn Indian racism receive the mots vile comments from many Indians, and again the socalled moderate Indians do not defend them.  

These socalled moderate Indians are now on GNI screaming that APNU/AFC is racist because the bulk of the heads who have been put on extended leave, or fired are Indians.  What they do not wish to admit was that this is because the PPP had pretty much wiped out Africans from leadership, so it is only Indians who will be dismissed.

Ok, you could be right...this is the sentence that confused me:

"Remittances rose from a paltry US$15 million in 1997 to $US493 million in 2013. As a proportion of GDP, this represents an increase from 2 per cent to 16.5 per cent, which is the world’s eleventh largest in 2013."

But "proportion" does not mean it was included in the GDP.  

What about cleaning up the Burnham constitution.  Last time they worked together they made us "foreigners" 

Why should he bother to work with you when you consider him a racist?  You cannot be bothered to admit that this black man was tortured and almost killed by an African dictatorship by working on a project with Indians, which ultimately led to the installation of what became an Indian dictatorship.

This Indian dictatorship was as vicious in his treatment of Africans as was the African dictatorship in its treatment of Indians.  But you with your screams of "black savage devils assaulting good innocent Indians" cannot accept this view.  If you cannot then you CANNOT BE TRUSTED BY BLACK!

Now where were the David Hinds among the Indians who were willing to be outspoken about Indian racism?  A few like Freddie K, and Chris Ram, who are loudly condemned by the remaining Indian population as race traitors.

For all these Indians, who suddenly scream about race, now that an Indian regime is no longer on power, where were you when the few Indians to speak out against Indian racism were being persecuted by Jagdeo, and this included violent acts being threatened against them?  Even now they impugn Chris Rams professional integrity by claiming that he is unfit to conduct an audit.

Look deep within yourself and your utterances to see why many Afro Guyanese will not trust you.

And if an Indian regime excluded Africans, with the almost unanimous support of the Indian population at large, who is supposed to help Africans?  Not Africans themselves?

I do not believe there can be a benevolent dictator. God is a dictator because god is truth. We live in an imperfect world where the truth of a thing are as infinite as the questions that can be asked of it. A dictator would never agree with his people most of the time and if he is to have his way and no broke no protestations to his voice then there is the end to his benevolence or the end of him.

I underlined that part simply to emphasize that you agree with me that it is people who stand in their way of progress. In our case it is our people who are the cause of our underdevelopment.

I will be interested in the comments from the socalled non racist Indians like VVP, Zed, Kari and the orhers. 

Yes YOU folk who avoid any discussion of Indian racism, and then subtly join the Indo KKK set with your "baad black, good Indian" mythology.  Kari who last year screamed that Granger should apologize to Indians, without the PPP not being similarly obligated to apologize to blacks.

Until racism is openly CONFRONTED where ever it manifests all this other blather is meaningless.  

Just as the Obama presidency witnessed an outpouring of rants from the white racists, with the socalled non racist whites refusing to condemn them, now we see the same behavior with a Granger gov't.  This because up to the day before the election they boasted that there would never be a black president of Guyana.

So yes talk about some silly project like giving starving black people pigs and chickens to mind, or hiring them as laborers, while you ignore the presence of black professionals.  You will be seen by most blacks as looking down on them as inferiors.

So the socalled moderates scream that what I say is racist, while saying NOTHING about Gampat's posts, which allegedly still remain on his website. This representing the MAJORITY view that Indians have of blacks, even as you try to deny that fact.

 Yes, this while thousands of Indians live in majority black islands, doing the low level work that the locals only want in tough times.  So why flee to these islands with "lazy and unproductive and illiterate" blacks, that are much better off than Guyana, even with their considerably more limited natural resource bases?

Which project was that?  I a just curious.

And they say that they got lands in the places with no infrastructure, and with other limitations.  They know more about what they encountered under the PPP than you do.

If you aren't a racist (which you in fact are) show respect for these people by listening to their experiences.

And as we have seen, almost all of the highest  leadership slots were handled by Indians, which is why it is Indians who are mainly being dismissed, or sent on extended vacation.

When the PPP came in they either directly forced out blacks, or squeezed them out when they reached the age 55 retirement age.  the replacement was invariably an Indian, so we see that almost all the top slots were occupied by Indians by the time the PPP ended.  Kamla Persad in Trinidad is 100% as bad!

The WPA which emerged as a multi ethnic movement to rid Guyana of an African dictatorship.  And it is this that set the beginnings for the broader based movement which did in fact lead to the PPP victory in 1992.

Now what thanks did David Hinds get.  Contributing to the creation of an Indian regime which was every bit as vicious in how it treated Africans as was the Burnham regime was in how it treated Indians.  Then getting called a racist, when he pointed out that fact.

Hinds would laugh at people like you, who condoned PPP racism (you said nothing about it, nor did you condemn the Indian racism that is frequently on GNI) suddenly wanting to end racism.  Of course racism in Guyana being universally defined as "savage black man attacking poor innocent Indian".

Why does institutionalized racism suddenly bother you, when that which existed prior to May 10th (which of course you will deny that it existed) didn't?

Any way go ahead and do what you usually do.   That is call me a racist, whlle allowing the Indo KKK to peddle their filth, which was illustrated in Gampat's perspectives about Afro Guyanese, as revealed by Stormborn.

When you say his people what do you mean?  His ministers or common people? A benevolent dictator is not supposed to agree with the common people for the main fact that he and his ministers should what needs to be done to advance the country.  For example, most of the common people would favor Amaila, but the benevolent dictator would know it is wrong (if the numbers are not correct) and call the shots as is rather than playing politics at the expense of the country.  The have been benevolent dictators before...not sure why you are bring god in here.

And what proof do Africans have of that.  When leading Indian entities like Jagdeo, Ravi Dev, the Guyana Times, the PPP controlled Chronicle, West on Trial, etc., paint blacks as violent and unproductive savages, only interested on leaching off Indians, do we hear many Indians condemning that?

NO!  Even as they called people like Eric Phillips, David Hinds, and Nigel Hughes racists for raising the fact that institutionalized racism against Africans was a factor of PPP rule.

So we are left with the conclusion that yes, most Indians do subscribe to a racist notion of what black people are, and I dare you to find proof otherwise.

Bannas I blow past your racism shit; I have no time for that, I am a busy man.   Anyway, don't try to make it look like it was the WPA that made 1992 happen.  That would be dishonest.  They played a role but not the major one.  Read here:

http://www.guyana.org/features...dence/chapter20.html

Bhai, Leave him alone, he has RACISM etched on his forehead!!!!!!!!!!!

Using your logic then LBJ was a benevolent dictator for forcing through the various civil rights legislation, even though it wasn't apparent that the majority of Americans favored it.

Leaders have access to information, and to those with expertise, which the general populations lacks access to.  On this basis they are empowered with making certain decisions, regardless as to what the population thinks, once they communicate with the electorate as to the reasoning behind their decision making, and they have in place mechanisms to facilitate dialogue with the various stake holders in society.

Caribbean people are NOT like East Asians, so there is no way that there will be a benevolent dictator.  In fact both Burnham and Jagdeo probably saw themselves as benevolent dictators, and we saw how this ended, in BOTH instances.