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FM
Former Member

Cheddi Jagan and Forbes Burnham were terrible, failed leaders

August 10, 2012 | By | Filed Under Letters 

 

Dear Editor,
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan have cast deep, dark and foreboding shadows across this land. The racial strife, social animosity, defunct political party structures, dismal leadership, economic stagnation, criminality, cronyism and ethnic politics that cripple this country are their legacies. That any country could be visited in the same era by two leaders who absolutely squandered their natural talents is staggering. That this happened to a poor backwater country is even more devastating.
Cheddi Jagan was an ideologue. Communism dominated his thought patterns, life and decision-making. Forbes Burnham was a megalomaniac. The pursuit of personal power was his dominant life philosophy. One was all about the ideological cause, while the other was all about himself. These two themes that consumed the two men wreaked destruction in Guyana.
Guyana paid a terrible price for their misgivings, inadequacies and derelict personalities. While they were academically brilliant, I do not consider Jagan and Burnham as intelligent leaders. Both were slaves to foreign ideologies (communism and socialism) that ironically, were crafted in the very West that they condemned. They both failed to read and disregarded the economic realities and desires of the populace before imposing foreign ideologies like communism and socialism. Their leadership led to Guyana’s economic decline from 1957 to present.
Instead of expanding and improving an existing capitalist model, they sought to introduce and impose foreign ideologies on an economy that was unprepared to handle it and lacked the financial support to implement it. It is more expensive to change an entire economic model than it is to perfect an existing model. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible to achieve communist or socialist utopia in a poorly populated society further divided along racial lines.
These ideologies required the embrace of the entire population to economically work. In addition, the Guyanese people had a natural propensity for capitalist entrepreneurism and commercialism. In fact, what Jagan (from 1957 to 1964) and Burnham (from 1964 to 1985) did was to cripple the natural Guyanese inclinations to wealth creation, commercialism and capitalist energies by establishing state-controlled economic structures.
In Burnham’s case, the costly experiment with state-dominated socialism from 1964 to 1985 led to the complete destruction of African entrepreneurism and capitalist endeavours, which led to further impoverishment and economic marginalization of Africans. If Cheddi Jagan obtained power in 1964, Indians would have suffered the same fate under a Jagan communist government. Ironically and shamefully, these men are still celebrated by their ethnic constituencies as legends.
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan lacked situational and strategic intelligence and realpolitik awareness. They were bull-headed and hard-headed. They did not think of the nation first, but of ideology and self before nation. Burnham lapsed terribly by not profiting from his relationship with the USA after it helped him to power in 1964. Burnham forsook the opportunity to build a capitalist society backed by massive American capital and investment for a socialist shell of a country wracked by poverty, malnutrition and despair.
Jagan did not learn from the resistance of the West when he was Premier from 1957 to 1964 and instead of adapting and adjusting, he became emboldened with his communist philosophy and was rudely awakened in 1964. The real powers in Guyana, the West, was not on trial in the ensuing 28 years. The owners of the law do not go on trial and the West owned the law in Guyana in 1964.
It is the ideological dunces who miss the cues; who not only go on trial, but put an entire voting constituency on trial. Similarly, Forbes Burnham and his successor (Hoyte) failed to change the debacle of the PNC 1980 Constitution before 1992 and it has been relentlessly used in the past 20 years by the PPP to abuse the nation.
Jagan and Burnham were too consumed with communist and socialist ideology and their quest for personal power to comprehend these fundamental truths about their own country. In fact, many facets of Burnham’s rule were closer to communism than socialism. I strongly believe that despite the opportunity presented by the Americans to infuse massive capital into Guyana, Burnham chose socialism over capitalism because it was easier for him to gain maximum power through the state-command structure of socialism. Capitalism would have made Guyana wealthier, but also would have made Burnham more vulnerable politically. Socialism was a means to greater personal power for a megalomaniac like Burnham.
The most frightening legacy Burnham and Jagan have left us with is racial division. They openly practiced Apaan Jhaat and African power politics and were the chief agitators in the nation’s most terrifying period of racial strife in the 1960s. This scar continues to run deep within Guyana. It does not help that their backward economic policy-making has perpetuated the poverty racism needs to remain a menace.
The sickening state bureaucracy rooted in party paramountcy is another symptom of the disease Burnham and Jagan left with us. The fat cat salaries the PPP pays its own at the Office of the President is a reminder of this atrocity. The party paramountcy of Burnham and Jagan suffocates this country. Rank incompetents with no skill, brainpower, decency, integrity or qualifications get contracts and plum positions just for having a party card and nothing between their ears.
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan have left us political structures that practice no internal democracy and demonstrate no accountability or transparency. Their parties are still rigging internal elections, voting by Stalinist show of hands, suspending constitutionally-required congresses and handpicking their own candidates.
They soil soiled this country. They were followers, not leaders. They just happened to be around when the British decided it was going to transition to independence. One was a brilliant orator and the other had the human touch. Beyond that, they have left us nothing to be proud of and in my opinion, have contributed nothing of substance to this country. They have done nothing any other leader of that generation in power from 1953 to 1999 would not have done or could not have done better. Our shameful existence today is testament to the failures of these two men and the horrendous legacy they left us.
M. Maxwell

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quote:
Both were slaves to foreign ideologies (communism and socialism) that ironically, were crafted in the very West that they condemned. They both failed to read and disregarded the economic realities and desires of the populace before imposing foreign ideologies like communism and socialism. Their leadership led to Guyana’s economic decline from 1957 to present.
I assume capitalism and imperialism were not foreign ideologies. Maxwell deliberately ignores the real reason, the racial antagonism and LFSB rule of destruction. During that period, the economy spiraled downward. Business ground to a halt and institutionalized racism was rampant.
FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Cheddi Jagan and Forbes Burnham were terrible, failed leaders

August 10, 2012 | By | Filed Under Letters 

 

Dear Editor,
 
In Burnham’s case, the costly experiment with state-dominated socialism from 1964 to 1985 led to the complete destruction of African entrepreneurism and capitalist endeavours, which led to further impoverishment and economic marginalization of Africans.
 
left us.
M. Maxwell


I have said this many times.

FM
Originally Posted by TI:
quote:
Both were slaves to foreign ideologies (communism and socialism) that ironically, were crafted in the very West that they condemned. They both failed to read and disregarded the economic realities and desires of the populace before imposing foreign ideologies like communism and socialism. Their leadership led to Guyana’s economic decline from 1957 to present.
I assume capitalism and imperialism were not foreign ideologies. Maxwell deliberately ignores the real reason, the racial antagonism and LFSB rule of destruction. During that period, the economy spiraled downward. Business ground to a halt and institutionalized racism was rampant.

As is typical of folks like you there is this lie that only AfroGuyanese participated in racism, and that violence in the 60s was one sided.

FM
Originally Posted by TI:
Who talking about the 60's? That was the capitalists and imperialists divide and conquer method that Maxwell recommends. I am talking about LFSB state institutionalized racist rule.

You cannot seperate LFSB from the 60s. He is part of the same problem that Jagan was and the divide and conquer occurred because we were already divided long racial lines afetr 1955 and both races were conquered by these gentlemen.  We were conquered because we dont trust each other and sadly events since 1961 have given neither race justification to think that these sentiments are wrong.

 

You as an Indian want to focus on what AfroGuyanese do/did and to place 100% vof the blame on them.  Do yourself a favor and understand that what they did is a reaction to what they perceived Indians were doing to them, and the same is true in the other direction.

 

Try balance and fairness for a change.

FM

We can only reflect on the past. Praises and criticisms are justified based on the way we assess a leader's legacy to his nation. Burnham and Jagan will forever hold a place in Guyana's history. The future belongs to us, and we ought to embrace the opportunity to do better, learn from our mistakes, support our government and strive for success. Warning: People who are dirt bent on talking trash will miss the soup train.

FM

It is the citizens that destroyed Guyana. Forbes and Cheddie used their ethnic support for their personal financial gains. These two men were the fathers of corruption.

 

The split of 1954/1955 was the intentions of Jagan and Burnham to use their support base for supremacy in the Guyanese society.

 

The Jagan faction started a smear campaign against Forbes which caused to him to hang on to socialism as a way of holding onto power as Maxwell states. The association of Forbes and Cheddie was only a coalition, that is why it was not too difficult for the split occur.

 

Forbes had the support of educated Indians and yet he allowed blacks to practiced rasism among grass root Indians.

 

The Indians on the other hand, were a threat to the USA. In the case of free and fair election they would voted for the communist Jagans.

 

So, the blacks and the indians through their personal desires continue to destroy the country.  

S
Originally Posted by sachin_05:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Leader??? Not at all, he is a certified CUNUMUNU.

Better a CUNUMUNU than a kakahole that polute the place day in and day out....


Nah you de Chat dat eat and shit with the same spot??? Oh Rass yes, the other Day meh bin ah tell Abidah bout  your unique way of eating and shitting from the same spot. In other words, YUH MOUTH AND KAKAHOLE ARE ONE!!!!

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by sachin_05:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Leader??? Not at all, he is a certified CUNUMUNU.

Better a CUNUMUNU than a kakahole that polute the place day in and day out....


Nah you de Chat dat eat and shit with the same spot??? Oh Rass yes, the other Day meh bin ah tell Abidah bout  your unique way of eating and shitting from the same spot. In other words, YUH MOUTH AND KAKAHOLE ARE ONE!!!!

Something has to wrong with you. I doan which reasonable educated person get on like u.

S
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by sachin_05:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Leader??? Not at all, he is a certified CUNUMUNU.

Better a CUNUMUNU than a kakahole that polute the place day in and day out....


Nah you de Chat dat eat and shit with the same spot??? Oh Rass yes, the other Day meh bin ah tell Abidah bout  your unique way of eating and shitting from the same spot. In other words, YUH MOUTH AND KAKAHOLE ARE ONE!!!!

 What expressions of leadership potential! I bet you are an inspiration...NOT!!!!

FM

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

FM
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

Mitwah
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

Another display of ignorance. Jagan supported Forbes' socialist/communist policies by giving Forbes "critical support". Jagan was Forbes' teacher when it came to socialism, marxism etc. Jagan never opposed nationalization, banning of items, or any of the utterly disastrous policies that destroyed Guyana. In fact were Jagan given a chance, Guyana would be WORSE. It would be Cuba or today's Venezuela!!!!

Now to this horseshit you wrote "because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana he governed it based on capitalism"

Really???!!! Economic reforms were instituted by Desmond Hoyte after Burnham's death. He reversed the marxist policies. He had no choice but to do this. Similarly when Jagan came to power after Carter intervened in 92, he had no choice but to follow democratic and economic reforms dictated by the West. Beggars can't be choosers. He didn't have a chance to impose the Marxist rule he wanted.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Iguana posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

Another display of ignorance. Jagan supported Forbes' socialist/communist policies by giving Forbes "critical support". Jagan was Forbes' teacher when it came to socialism, marxism etc. Jagan never opposed nationalization, banning of items, or any of the utterly disastrous policies that destroyed Guyana. In fact were Jagan given a chance, Guyana would be WORSE. It would be Cuba or today's Venezuela!!!!

Now to this horseshit you wrote "because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana he governed it based on capitalism"

Really???!!! Economic reforms were instituted by Desmond Hoyte after Burnham's death. He reversed the marxist policies. He had no choice but to do this. Similarly when Jagan came to power after Carter intervened in 92, he had no choice but to follow democratic and economic reforms dictated by the West. Beggars can't be choosers. He didn't have a chance to impose the Marxist rule he wanted.

Dude, why don't you go take some pepto bismal ease your problem. What kind of critical support did Burnham need from Jagan? Burnham was a madman who allowed the power of being leader of the second poorest country in the western hemisphere to destroy his soul and the wellbeing of countless Guyanese. It is irrelevant what Hoyte started because if Jagan was the vagabond that Burnham was, he would have done what Burnham did to the detriment of Guyana and its people. There are still leaders in the world today who are destroying their country so why would Jagan care what the west wanted when Burnham didn't give a rats ass about how he was destroying Guyana? Can't rewrite history to turn Jagan into the miscreant that Burnham was. And don't go putting Hoyte on any pedestal equal to that of Jagan either. Jagan never rigged any elections like Hoyte did in 1985.

FM
Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

What kind of critical support did Burnham need from Jagan. For all the time that Burnham was arrogantly destroying Guyana, he excluded Jagan from much of his parliamentary duties. I lost count on the number of times Jagan was thrown out of parliament by the PNC of old. That is back with this new PNC government when they threw out Edgill and others recently. Burnham was a madman. Jagan was too rational and reasonable to coexist in Burnham's sick world.

Whether Jagan was an atheist or not is his business. I don't concern myself with what religion people adhere to or if they even have a religious belief or not.

FM
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

This is one of his best threads I have seen on GNI.  Jagan didn't know a thing about capitalism.  He was old and ailing when the PPP got back power in 1992.  It was Hoyte's policies that he kept and his good Finance Ministers that practiced capitalism.  Both Burnham and Jagan were commie losers.

Bibi Haniffa
ksazma posted:
Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

What kind of critical support did Burnham need from Jagan. For all the time that Burnham was arrogantly destroying Guyana, he excluded Jagan from much of his parliamentary duties. I lost count on the number of times Jagan was thrown out of parliament by the PNC of old. That is back with this new PNC government when they threw out Edgill and others recently. Burnham was a madman. Jagan was too rational and reasonable to coexist in Burnham's sick world.

Whether Jagan was an atheist or not is his business. I don't concern myself with what religion people adhere to or if they even have a religious belief or not.

Idiot, you are the one who brought God into the conversation. That Jagan did not give Burnham critical support shows your obvious ignorance.

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

At the end of his life Burnham knew more about Hinduism than Jagan. Burnham had a three men pandit team. The only time that Jagan took part in anything Hindu was when he showed up for Reepu Pagwah celebration in the evening.

 

Prashad
Prashad posted:
At the end of his life Burnham knew more about Hinduism than Jagan. Burnham had a three men pandit team. The only time that Jagan took part in anything Hindu was when he showed up for Reepu Pagwah celebration in the evening.

 

Sounds like Burnham, were he alive, would be a great candidate for your "purebred" Hindu sovereign nation. Lawd have mercy!

FM
Prashad posted:
Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

Mitwah posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

But Jagan gave him critical support. BTW, wasn't Jagan an atheist?

At the end of his life Burnham knew more about Hinduism than Jagan. Burnham had a three men pandit team. The only time that Jagan took part in anything Hindu was when he showed up for Reepu Pagwah celebration in the evening.

 

And the other time was for his Antyesti rites at his funeral. 

Mitwah
Iguana posted:
ksazma posted:

Interesting how people like to drag Jagan into Burnham's destruction of Guyana. Regardless of Jagan's views, he did not get a chance to destroy Guyana because Burnham illegally barred him from any governance of it. God was on Jagan's side because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana, he governed it based on capitalism.

Another display of ignorance. Jagan supported Forbes' socialist/communist policies by giving Forbes "critical support". Jagan was Forbes' teacher when it came to socialism, marxism etc. Jagan never opposed nationalization, banning of items, or any of the utterly disastrous policies that destroyed Guyana. In fact were Jagan given a chance, Guyana would be WORSE. It would be Cuba or today's Venezuela!!!!

Now to this horseshit you wrote "because when he finally got a chance to govern Guyana he governed it based on capitalism"

Really???!!! Economic reforms were instituted by Desmond Hoyte after Burnham's death. He reversed the marxist policies. He had no choice but to do this. Similarly when Jagan came to power after Carter intervened in 92, he had no choice but to follow democratic and economic reforms dictated by the West. Beggars can't be choosers. He didn't have a chance to impose the Marxist rule he wanted.

Gwana man writes like our resident buckman.

FM
ksazma posted:

Dude, why don't you go take some pepto bismal ease your problem. What kind of critical support did Burnham need from Jagan?

Iguana response: No one is saying Burnham needed any support. That Jagan saw fit to VOLUNTARILY render "critical support" to Burnham showed how clueless and approving he was of Burnham's disastrous socialist policies. Never saw Rodney, a BLACK man, rendering ANY form of support to Burnham.

Burnham was a madman who allowed the power of being leader of the second poorest country in the western hemisphere to destroy his soul and the wellbeing of countless Guyanese.

Iguana response: you are off on your usual tangential rant. No one is disputing this. In fact Maxwell calls Forbes a megalomaniac if you took time to read the opening post without interjecting your ignorant self. 

It is irrelevant what Hoyte started because if Jagan was the vagabond that Burnham was, he would have done what Burnham did to the detriment of Guyana and its people. There are still leaders in the world today who are destroying their country so why would Jagan care what the west wanted when Burnham didn't give a rats ass about how he was destroying Guyana?

Iguana response: If, if, if. I have no interest in venturing into your lil fantasy world. It is indisputable that Hoyte reversed marxist economic policy and opened up the country. Secondly, no one is suggesting Jagan was the "vagabond that Burnham was". Quit injecting your nonsense into the debate. I for one think Jagan was a sincere and honest man, just severely misled and an ideological communist to the detriment of Guyana. Your last sentence above (I italicized) stands on its own as a reflection of how truly ignorant you are.

Can't rewrite history to turn Jagan into the miscreant that Burnham was. And don't go putting Hoyte on any pedestal equal to that of Jagan either. Jagan never rigged any elections like Hoyte did in 1985.

Iguana response: No one is rewriting anything. No attempt is made by Maxwell or any poster on this thread to suggest Jagan was a miscreant. No one is putting Hoyte on a pedestal either, only pointing to the indisputable fact of his economic reform which probably was due to a mandate from the west (even Bibi who supports the PPP acknowledged this earlier). And no one is accusing Jagan of rigging anything. This entire paragraph of yours is irrelevant. It is pellucid that you did not grasp the article or posters' comments here. But that is to be expected. Most things go over your head so you make up your own shit so you can argue against yourself!

See my responses in bold red. It is useless to continue discussion further with an ill equipped and unarmed poster.

FM
skeldon_man posted:

Gwana man writes like our resident buckman.

Is not one dog named Pompei bai! Writing style is not unique. Clue me in Skeleton, is everything here about race? Fuss ah notice you trying fuh figure out if I is a black man or not. Now you call me a buck man (which is a pejorative that you use with ease. Troubling.) Then last night KP the former PNC engineer and lover of duck curry laced with shit hurl he racist black man comments at me.

Looks like every opinion here is seen thru the prism of race. A sensible argument can be made, but if the poster is not an Indian then the racist  bile comes out. Worse yet, any criticism of the PPP is immediately construed as anti Indian. Even if Indians here criticize the PPP they get called names.

And I assume most of y'all living overseas and should know better. No wonder Guyana is a shithole country. 

FM
Iguana posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Gwana man writes like our resident buckman.

Is not one dog named Pompei bai! Writing style is not unique. Clue me in Skeleton, is everything here about race? Fuss ah notice you trying fuh figure out if I is a black man or not. Now you call me a buck man (which is a pejorative that you use with ease. Troubling.) Then last night KP the former PNC engineer and lover of duck curry laced with shit hurl he racist black man comments at me.

Looks like every opinion here is seen thru the prism of race. A sensible argument can be made, but if the poster is not an Indian then the racist  bile comes out. Worse yet, any criticism of the PPP is immediately construed as anti Indian. Even if Indians here criticize the PPP they get called names.

And I assume most of y'all living overseas and should know better. No wonder Guyana is a shithole country. 

Good post!

cain
cain posted:
Iguana posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Gwana man writes like our resident buckman.

Is not one dog named Pompei bai! Writing style is not unique. Clue me in Skeleton, is everything here about race? Fuss ah notice you trying fuh figure out if I is a black man or not. Now you call me a buck man (which is a pejorative that you use with ease. Troubling.) Then last night KP the former PNC engineer and lover of duck curry laced with shit hurl he racist black man comments at me.

Looks like every opinion here is seen thru the prism of race. A sensible argument can be made, but if the poster is not an Indian then the racist  bile comes out. Worse yet, any criticism of the PPP is immediately construed as anti Indian. Even if Indians here criticize the PPP they get called names.

And I assume most of y'all living overseas and should know better. No wonder Guyana is a shithole country. 

Good post!

Now yuh expose the man. The only person yuh ever agree with is D2. Suh, yuh comfirm the assumption by a poster, "buckman writing."

Ahmmmmmm! Ahmmmmmm!

S
Iguana posted:
Prashad posted:
At the end of his life Burnham knew more about Hinduism than Jagan. Burnham had a three men pandit team. The only time that Jagan took part in anything Hindu was when he showed up for Reepu Pagwah celebration in the evening.

 

Sounds like Burnham, were he alive, would be a great candidate for your "purebred" Hindu sovereign nation. Lawd have mercy!

Seeing that you, keffer and the Chief's true ancestors were Hindu. Each of your reconversions should take less than 5 minutes.

Prashad

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