VVP posted:

caribny posted:

GTAngler posted:

Irrelevant, probably. The norm, also probably..

The norm is that even in Queens Afro and Indo Guyanese live in different neighborhoods, move in different social circles and don't miss each other.

Face it. We don't trust each other, nor do we see each other as one people.

You don't have to live together to trust each other.  I have a friend in Guyana who hires mainly blacks from the other village and they have great relationships.

I lived among blacks in Barr St and never a problem.  In fact, the problems I had were mainly with Indians.

It is the uninformed that allow themselves to be caught in the race-based political trap.

Do you remember saying on here that there was a black neighbour who ignored you all, thinking he was too uppity. Now u saying different. Am I wrong. Maybe I read it wrong. If I did, then I apoligize with a sorry.  

VVP posted:

GTAngler posted:

caribny posted:

Django posted:

 

We don't trust each other and one can see this right here in NYC where black and Indian Guyanese have almost nothing to do with each other.  We don't live under Granger or Jagdeo and yet ethnic mistrust still dominates, to the point where this is highly noticeable even to non Caribbean people.

Speak fuh yuhself cuz. My Guyanese friends are just that, Guyanese. There are quite a few Guyanese working where I work both Indo and Afro and I have yet to see any sort of clannishness or the like. And I am speaking about people from recent college graduates to people close to retirement. I suppose it's all about how you feel and how you treat people. If you think someone is different or inferior or however else you may envision them, then you're very likely to see that sentiment reciprocated.  

Never had a problem with Afro Guyanese over here.  I have met many in social and working environment and they have all been helpful.  The distrust between races were created by politics.  Prior to the 1960s there was not that much distrust.

 

I disagree.

Indians rarely socialize with Blacks, perhaps bcz what was implied about their backwardness. ie in the early days of vacating the logies

Do not forget, Black people in BG were highly socialized and uppity, even the lowly ones. And many young Indians in the 40's and 60's who mingled outside of the logie communities picked many sociable traits from Black people.

This thread is finally moving in a direction of discussion, right or wrong.

I want to add that there is a level of mistrust between Afros and Indos and Carib correctly indicated that Indos are afraid of the PNC "monster" as much as Afros are afraid of the PPP "monster".

The question then raises as to how can both races get rid of these "monster" images and perceptions ?

Burnham and Jagan instilled these Jumbies into both races. There appears to be no obeah man to cure it, Rodney was the only person capable of getting rid of the Jumbies but the PNC murdered him.

We are now finally zoning in on the real problem. It is the truth and both races need to face it.

Let us keep this post civil and we might headed into the right direction.

seignet posted:

 

I disagree.

Indians rarely socialize with Blacks, perhaps bcz what was implied about their backwardness. ie in the early days of vacating the logies

Do not forget, Black people in BG were highly socialized and uppity, even the lowly ones. And many young Indians in the 40's and 60's who mingled outside of the logie communities picked many sociable traits from Black people.

That depends on the Regions and the villages of Guyana.

GTAngler posted:

. Unless we have some level of compromise and cooperation, we aren't going anywhere.

That's a message for the folks in Guyana.  In NYC we go our separate ways and don't see cooperation is being relevant to out lives.  Nor do we see anything to compromise about, given that we are both at the lower middle level in NYC, subject to decisions made by people from other ethnic groups. 

Only a few seem interested in mobilization between the two ethnic groups within NYC as a way to heighten our visibility  as Guyanese.  There are more Guyanese in NYC than Haitians though few will believe this, we being the 5th largest immigrant group.  The fact that we don't live together and rarely do we associate with each other, beyond the odd friendship or two, means that this is a pipe dream.

We didn't bond in Guyana. We merely tolerated each other. Freed from this need to communicate with each other in NYC we don't miss each other.

I know of Afro dominated groups in NYC where there is conversation about making their membership more representative of what being "Guyanese" is all about. I am not aware of similar conversations among Indo dominated groups.  Maybe it does exist but I some how doubt it, aside from maybe having a black token or two, but ensuring that the group remains Indo dominated.

I do know for a fact that the two groups have different notions about what being "Guyanese" is all about.

At Guyanese cultural events the Afros will bring out the Kwekwe drum and the masquerade, all cultural activities developed within Guyana.  The Indians more often than not bring out Bollywood or classic dance rooted in India.  There are Indo Guyanese folks songs, but few Guyanese know them because they aren't performed at national events, but poorly executed Indian classical dance is.

Indians see themselves as being an ethnic group WITHIN Guyana. Africans tend to see themselves as Guyanese who happen to be black.  Look at the exhortations by some right here on GNI that Afro Guyanese must pick up some "African" culture, the implication being that Indo Guyanese still live as if they never left India.  Prashad dismissing the creole culture which developed over the past 400 years in the Caribbean as mere 17th century vulgar pirate culture, with no redeeming values, and he isn't the only one to express that opinion.

At an event 2 decades ago after one of our manifestations of ethnic angst an Afro Guyanese, half jokingly said that maybe the solution was "douglarization". Noted was the horror from the Indians and in fact one of the Indian panelists howled that this was tantamount to ethnic genocide of Indians, and implied that she was a bigot at the level of Adolf Hitler.  Not one African had anything negative to say about this.

So why the different reactions to "douglarization"?  THAT has lots to do with figuring out where our ethnic angst lies.  Look at poor Prashad screaming for his Indian Bantustan.  Even during the worst of the Jagdeo era the cries from blacks was INCLUSION, not separation. Now I am not saying that his view is typically Indian, but its interesting that Ravi Dev and ROAR were going in the same direction, whereas the ACDA isn't.  Ravi Dev had quite a following.

yuji22 posted:

".

The question then raises as to how can both races get rid of these "monster" images and perceptions ?

.

 

 

It begins when you stop viewing every comment on Indian racism as a racist attack on Indians. As you can see I have no problem admitting to the racism of the Burnham era, nor am I denying that Afro Guyanese bought into a Eurocentric notion of the "unassimilated" Indian being an inferior. 

You however refuse to admit to the fact that Indian racism does exist. That many, maybe most, Indians harbor a view of black inferiority (look at drugb's posts as an example).  You peddle Jagdeo as some one who will bring ethnic unity when in fact he is the most divisive politician walking around Guyana today.

Carib is being allowed to get away with the big lie that Jagdeo marginalized Africans in Guyana when the evidence is there that they prospered during those years the PPP governed.  I should add 'governed democratically".

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Carib is being allowed to get away with the big lie that Jagdeo marginalized Africans in Guyana when the evidence is there that they prospered during those years the PPP governed.  I should add 'governed democratically".

Billy,

You need to sliced that statement and do an inspection,you will find out it's not very true.

VVP posted:

  The distrust between races were created by politics.  Prior to the 1960s there was not that much distrust.

 

Hmmm.   I was reading an analysis about intra Caribbean migration. It focused on Trinidad, Barbados and St Kitts/Nevis as destinations. Guyanese being well represented in all three.

What was noted in all 3 was the degree of separation between Afro and Indo Guyanese.  This view being expressed by the locals who didn't understand why a Guyanese political squabble should be imported into their lands, and with it inter ethnic tensions.

Now one would think that in majority black islands (Barbados and St Kitts/Nevis) Indians would think that developing relations with the local mainly black populations would be advantageous. And that one way of doing this would be to mix heavily with Afro Guyanese, who clearly will be more easily assimilated, given that accent is all that differentiates them from the locals.

Instead this distance exists between the two groups, the result being that the black locals see Indo Guyanese as being clannish. In fact the analysis indicated that the Guyanese Association in Nevis was mainly blacks, even though most of the Guyanese on that island were Indians.

I might buy into a notion that Burnham and Jagan are to blame for what happens in Guyana, where access to political power in an ethnically polarized nation fosters ethnic distrust. But why in Barbados and St Kitts/Nevis where it would in the interest of Indo Guyanese to be not seen as a group hostile to blacks?  Because it is the black locals who will issue them work permits so that they can stay, and who will hound them down if they don't like them.

Great discussion here guys...kudos to all.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Carib is being allowed to get away with the big lie that Jagdeo marginalized Africans in Guyana when the evidence is there that they prospered during those years the PPP governed.  I should add 'governed democratically".

Exhibit one of why we have an ethnic problem. The vast majority of blacks consider Jagdeo to be a divisive racist. Rather than engaging them to see why they have this opinion BillyRamgoat screams that the love him.

Billy please tell us why blacks didn't vote for Jagdeo/Ramotar in 2001, 2006, 2011 or in 2015? Also why didn't they vote PPP in G/T, New Amsterdam, Linden, Kwakwani and Bartica, places that are black and/or mixed.  The PPP was stomped in the LGE.

Until people like Billyramgoat cease screaming about what blacks think or what they experienced he cannot expect to be trusted as some one who is really concerned about them.

I will leave you to GT Angler.

seignet posted:

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

GTAngler posted:

Irrelevant, probably. The norm, also probably..

The norm is that even in Queens Afro and Indo Guyanese live in different neighborhoods, move in different social circles and don't miss each other.

Face it. We don't trust each other, nor do we see each other as one people.

You don't have to live together to trust each other.  I have a friend in Guyana who hires mainly blacks from the other village and they have great relationships.

I lived among blacks in Barr St and never a problem.  In fact, the problems I had were mainly with Indians.

It is the uninformed that allow themselves to be caught in the race-based political trap.

Do you remember saying on here that there was a black neighbour who ignored you all, thinking he was too uppity. Now u saying different. Am I wrong. Maybe I read it wrong. If I did, then I apoligize with a sorry.  

Yes, two old grouchy people that did not speak to us, but there were no fights.  I used to steal their cane and dounze (sp.) when I was a kid 

Ow man, the day was going nice without fights. Oh well, all good things must come to an end. I asked a question earlier and am still waiting for some answers. Were I living in Guyana during Jagdeo's ascension to the Presidency of Guyana, I certainly would not have voted for him in the subsequent elections. We all know what Burnham was and what Janet/Jagdeo did was in no way different. How do you expect to earn the trust of people when you do exactly what they mistrust? Since then, he has done nothing to repair the damage or indicate that he has changed. Jagdeo is interested in one thing, getting back his empire especially with oil money on the horizon and will use any means to get it.  

seignet posted:

VVP posted:

GTAngler posted:

caribny posted:

Django posted:

 

We don't trust each other and one can see this right here in NYC where black and Indian Guyanese have almost nothing to do with each other.  We don't live under Granger or Jagdeo and yet ethnic mistrust still dominates, to the point where this is highly noticeable even to non Caribbean people.

Speak fuh yuhself cuz. My Guyanese friends are just that, Guyanese. There are quite a few Guyanese working where I work both Indo and Afro and I have yet to see any sort of clannishness or the like. And I am speaking about people from recent college graduates to people close to retirement. I suppose it's all about how you feel and how you treat people. If you think someone is different or inferior or however else you may envision them, then you're very likely to see that sentiment reciprocated.  

Never had a problem with Afro Guyanese over here.  I have met many in social and working environment and they have all been helpful.  The distrust between races were created by politics.  Prior to the 1960s there was not that much distrust.

 

I disagree.

Indians rarely socialize with Blacks, perhaps bcz what was implied about their backwardness. ie in the early days of vacating the logies

Do not forget, Black people in BG were highly socialized and uppity, even the lowly ones. And many young Indians in the 40's and 60's who mingled outside of the logie communities picked many sociable traits from Black people.

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

VVP posted:

seignet posted:

VVP posted:

GTAngler posted:

caribny posted:

Django posted:

 

We don't trust each other and one can see this right here in NYC where black and Indian Guyanese have almost nothing to do with each other.  We don't live under Granger or Jagdeo and yet ethnic mistrust still dominates, to the point where this is highly noticeable even to non Caribbean people.

Speak fuh yuhself cuz. My Guyanese friends are just that, Guyanese. There are quite a few Guyanese working where I work both Indo and Afro and I have yet to see any sort of clannishness or the like. And I am speaking about people from recent college graduates to people close to retirement. I suppose it's all about how you feel and how you treat people. If you think someone is different or inferior or however else you may envision them, then you're very likely to see that sentiment reciprocated.  

Never had a problem with Afro Guyanese over here.  I have met many in social and working environment and they have all been helpful.  The distrust between races were created by politics.  Prior to the 1960s there was not that much distrust.

 

I disagree.

Indians rarely socialize with Blacks, perhaps bcz what was implied about their backwardness. ie in the early days of vacating the logies

Do not forget, Black people in BG were highly socialized and uppity, even the lowly ones. And many young Indians in the 40's and 60's who mingled outside of the logie communities picked many sociable traits from Black people.

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

Ole man used to drink at a rum shop on UG road, left side when yuh going in. Had a Copra mill at the side.

caribny posted: In fact on GNI we all know who is Indian and who isn't, even though we don't know each other, and not every one identifies who they are upfront.

Which explains why Bibi Haniffa once said she didn't know Gilbakka is an Indian. She probably thought he was a Brooklynite. 

So you mean to say you are not a Brooklynite?

Bibi Haniffa posted:

So you mean to say you are not a Brooklynite?

Honorary Brooklynite. Like Honorary Doctorate. 

VVP posted:

 

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

I am sure that you have decent arrangements with those who you work with. That doesn't mean that you consider yourself an American, or they consider you to be one either.  Or at least some one who is American in the same way that they consider themselves to be.

The issue is that Afro and Indo Guyanese have an opinion of each other as a group.  Afro Guyanese see Indians as being "racial" and clannish, and not a group which can be trusted.  This doesn't mean that they don't have Indians friends or associates  who they trust.  Its the Indian who they don't know.

I am willing to bet that Indians have a narrative about Afros indicating levels of distrust.

I can imagine that a white American will claim that he gets on well with the blacks at work. I don't think that any sane and honest person will claim that black and white Americans, as a group, trust each other.

Gilbakka posted:

caribny posted: In fact on GNI we all know who is Indian and who isn't, even though we don't know each other, and not every one identifies who they are upfront.

Which explains why Bibi Haniffa once said she didn't know Gilbakka is an Indian. She probably thought he was a Brooklynite. 

She knew fully well that you are Indian. She just doesn't think that your behavior is appropriate for an Indian to have as no Indian is allowed to flee the PPP plantation.  Any who succeed have to be punished.

Gilbakka posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

So you mean to say you are not a Brooklynite?

Honorary Brooklynite. Like Honorary Doctorate. 

Massa - there is no such thing as Honorary Brooklynite.  You have to barn and grow near Flatbush Avenue to earn your stripes!!!!!!

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

 

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

I am sure that you have decent arrangements with those who you work with. That doesn't mean that you consider yourself an American, or they consider you to be one either.  Or at least some one who is American in the same way that they consider themselves to be.

The issue is that Afro and Indo Guyanese have an opinion of each other as a group.  Afro Guyanese see Indians as being "racial" and clannish, and not a group which can be trusted.  This doesn't mean that they don't have Indians friends or associates  who they trust.  Its the Indian who they don't know.

I am willing to bet that Indians have a narrative about Afros indicating levels of distrust.

I can imagine that a white American will claim that he gets on well with the blacks at work. I don't think that any sane and honest person will claim that black and white Americans, as a group, trust each other.

I don't disagree that Afro Guyanese see Indians as clannish and Indians see Africans as hostile.  That's the nature of the beast based on stereotyping.  This does not mean that large sections cannot work together and that they automatically distrust each other.  I think at the professional level there could be complete harmony and trust.

I think that I am always highly respected and trusted by my bosses in USA who are/were all whites.  However, when it comes to promotion of a white vs a non-white the white tend to get promotion first...that's my experience.  

I have never sucked up for a promotion and did as well as I could do.  I cannot go further unless my boss gets promoted or retires because I am at a point in the pyramid where there is only one person above me in my line of work.

The bottom line is that you can build trust by working hard.  I don't think there is a genetic mistrust built into human beings.  You have to work to build trust.

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

 

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

I am sure that you have decent arrangements with those who you work with. That doesn't mean that you consider yourself an American, or they consider you to be one either.  Or at least some one who is American in the same way that they consider themselves to be.

The issue is that Afro and Indo Guyanese have an opinion of each other as a group.  Afro Guyanese see Indians as being "racial" and clannish, and not a group which can be trusted.  This doesn't mean that they don't have Indians friends or associates  who they trust.  Its the Indian who they don't know.

I am willing to bet that Indians have a narrative about Afros indicating levels of distrust.

I can imagine that a white American will claim that he gets on well with the blacks at work. I don't think that any sane and honest person will claim that black and white Americans, as a group, trust each other.

I don't disagree that Afro Guyanese see Indians as clannish and Indians see Africans as hostile.  That's the nature of the beast based on stereotyping.  This does not mean that large sections cannot work together and that they automatically distrust each other.  I think at the professional level there could be complete harmony and trust.

I think that I am always highly respected and trusted by my bosses in USA who are/were all whites.  However, when it comes to promotion of a white vs a non-white the white tend to get promotion first...that's my experience.  

I have never sucked up for a promotion and did as well as I could do.  I cannot go further unless my boss gets promoted or retires because I am at a point in the pyramid where there is only one person above me in my line of work.  Beyond my boss everyone serves at the pleasure of the governor and I am NOT going to be one of them.

The bottom line is that you can build trust by working hard.  I don't think there is a genetic mistrust built into human beings.  You have to work to build trust.

In all fairness,

This is the most informative and eye opening discussion that I have ever seen on GNI. It opens up and reveals the issue of race through the eyes of both Indos and Afros.

The biggest question now is how can we apply what we have learnt in order to start building bridges with each other ?

On the whole, Carib has brought up a lot of valid points, I do not agree with everything but I can live with most of what he has stated.

This now leads to my question, should Guyana not have a Truth Commission like they did in South Africa to heal old wounds that are like a massive sore for Afros and Indos ?

Please chime in and please let us keep this discussion civil.

Yuji, ending the racial divide in Guyana is not a priority for PPP nor PNC. Both parties depend heavily on their racial stronghold to win elections. This is a historical fact. Why do you think Granger is taking care of Lindeners and other black dominated areas? Jagdeo is very likable by most blacks in Guyana, but look what happen in Sophia when Granger walk through the area, despite what Jadgeo has done for Sophia. Coolie and Jagdeo never seem to exist. 

VVP posted:

seignet posted:

VVP posted:

GTAngler posted:

caribny posted:

Django posted:

 

We don't trust each other and one can see this right here in NYC where black and Indian Guyanese have almost nothing to do with each other.  We don't live under Granger or Jagdeo and yet ethnic mistrust still dominates, to the point where this is highly noticeable even to non Caribbean people.

Speak fuh yuhself cuz. My Guyanese friends are just that, Guyanese. There are quite a few Guyanese working where I work both Indo and Afro and I have yet to see any sort of clannishness or the like. And I am speaking about people from recent college graduates to people close to retirement. I suppose it's all about how you feel and how you treat people. If you think someone is different or inferior or however else you may envision them, then you're very likely to see that sentiment reciprocated.  

Never had a problem with Afro Guyanese over here.  I have met many in social and working environment and they have all been helpful.  The distrust between races were created by politics.  Prior to the 1960s there was not that much distrust.

 

I disagree.

Indians rarely socialize with Blacks, perhaps bcz what was implied about their backwardness. ie in the early days of vacating the logies

Do not forget, Black people in BG were highly socialized and uppity, even the lowly ones. And many young Indians in the 40's and 60's who mingled outside of the logie communities picked many sociable traits from Black people.

Never had problem at UG with Afro class mates.  We used to socialize heavily...meaning drink rum at the rum shops on UG road 

Neither did I. I attended a Technical School that drew 20 students throughout the county of Berbice each year since 1957. There were a limited number of Black students, we all got along well. We were 15 years old, suh there was no drinking. Bookers ran a very disciplined school.

Even though we all got along, there were differences. Attitudes will say alot.

Racism did not start out with Forbes and Cheddie. Intoterance was always in the society, be it blacks against blacks. As noted by the Georgetown group of Marcus Garvey followers. The Portuguese had there part in the intolerance schemes in BG as well. The League of Colored People had there part in it too. I would suspect they knew the challenge of the East Indian in the colony, even by mere numbers they were going to pose a threat. That is why Carter chastise Forbes for teaming up with the Jagans. On that account, history proved the exhange of discussions.

Why then are we bewildered that Guyana is reeked with racial and religious differences to the point of hate and domination.

Every Primer, Prime Minister and President had with them a number of Afro and Indo elites. They appear not to be racist.

I read somewhere, an excellent leader makes decisions for seven generations. That is nation building. Guyana HAS NEVER had such a man or woman.

The country needs a visionary. By his actions, citizen will have hope. 

Racism will always exist in Guyana, but with a good life, prejudices will be less botherrsome.

VVP posted:

.

I don't disagree that Afro Guyanese see Indians as clannish and Indians see Africans as hostile.  

 

 However, when it comes to promotion of a white vs a non-white the white tend to get promotion first...that's my experience.  

.

This is why there is ethnic distrust in Guyana.   This is why this distrust is probably higher in the professional circles than among the working class.

Africans fear that Indo clannishness means that an Indo boss, or an Indo dominated government will mean that they will be excluded, or marginalized.  I remember seeing a company located in the G/T area where the manager was an Indian. In announcing almost 30 new hires fewer than 5 were non Indian.  I wondered how in the G/T area such a low % of black new employees was possible.

I am not Indian so will not opine as to why Indians don't like/fear Afro leadership. I do know for a fact that this extends to NYC as I know of some Guyanese groups, led by Afro Guyanese, more specifically Afro Guyanese women, which have bent over backwards to attract Indians, and have failed. So they have given up.  The few Indians who come along being the type who are derided here on GNI as "Cuffy lovers", "Congo Lovers". "neemakaram", etc.

Ethnic tension in Guyana is institutional, not social. While I can imagine some Indo and Afro neighbors might be initially suspicious of each other, normally over time they get on, and may even become friends.  It is the perception that institutions dominated by one group cannot be fair to the other that leads to the problem.  Institutions are almost always dominated by the upper echelons of a group.

Carib, I just asked for you on another thread. You will live a long time!

Go to the Haitian thread.

Cobra posted:

? Jagdeo is very likable by most blacks in Guyana,

And what evidence do you have? He goes some where and a few people shake his hand?  Well Indians shake Granger's hands and used to hug up Burnham too.  People respond in a certain way when a powerful person is within their midst, but that doesn't mean that they like them.

The PPP fools themselves with this nonsense that blacks like them and every election they discover otherwise, so they then wail about "dem blackman ungrateful".

seignet posted:

The Portuguese had there part in the intolerance schemes in BG as well. The League of Colored People had there part in it too. I would suspect they knew the challenge of the East Indian in the colony, even by mere numbers they were going to pose a threat.

As is usual with the Indo KKK every one is blamed for racism other than Indians.

I will suggest to you that plans by certain Indian elites in the early 20th century of fostering more immigration by Indian indentures, with the goal of turning British Guiana into "an Indian colony," wasn't going to reassure other groups.  And in fact it led to an ethnic race with "colored" groups then demanding more immigration from the Caribbean to prevent non Indians from being outnumbered.  THAT was the beginning of our Indo vs. Afro/mixed competition in Guyana.

If Brazilians walked into Guyana and then declared that they will want more Brazilians in so that Guyana could then become a de facto part of Brazil I am willing to be that you will become alarmed, and justifiably so.

cain posted:

Racial strife could end when they put those such as yourselves in quarantine for the rest of your lives.

Unfortunately this is not such a practical solution and we'll just have to wait for these racist ole Cretins to succumb and hopefully they haven't infected their young with their dreadful disease.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

So you mean to say you are not a Brooklynite?

Honorary Brooklynite. Like Honorary Doctorate. 

Massa - there is no such thing as Honorary Brooklynite.  You have to barn and grow near Flatbush Avenue to earn your stripes!!!!!!

Missy, lemme tell yuh someting hey. Gilbakka has many genuine friends in Brooklyn. And he is assured of VIP welcome anytime he decides to visit Brooklyn. And furthermore, lemme talk me mind: me nah like Richmond Hill, period.

Mars posted:

cain posted:

Racial strife could end when they put those such as yourselves in quarantine for the rest of your lives.

Unfortunately this is not such a practical solution and we'll just have to wait for these racist ole Cretins to succumb andhopefully they haven't infected their young with their dreadful disease.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the young have already been infected with "their dreadful disease". As God above me, Mars, the way the 2015 election campaign was proceeding in Guyana I never expected the PPP to perform so well at the polls. Old and young Indians closed ranks at the crucial moment, thanks to the timely intervention of Ramharack, Ravi Dev, Ryhaan Shah, the Swami etc. One more thing: Jagan knew his electoral base was the Indo community but never did he say openly that the PPP is a coolie people party, as Rohee did just before the elections. That statement helped to rally the herd.

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

.

I don't disagree that Afro Guyanese see Indians as clannish and Indians see Africans as hostile.  

 

 However, when it comes to promotion of a white vs a non-white the white tend to get promotion first...that's my experience.  

.

 

Ethnic tension in Guyana is institutional, not social. 

I think you are saying that ethic tension is driven by races-based politics, which I agree with.

I do hope and genuinely believe that a totally inclusive political party can be formed in Guyana to erase the race-based politics.  In fact, I hope that a party can be formed of technocrats whose only interest is to lay the foundation for future generations and get out and in the process develop an inclusive POLITICAL party to carry on.  Is this a dream?

I believe that technocrats who have "been there done that" would not see political positions in Guyana as positions of power and prestige as the current flock do.

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

The Portuguese had there part in the intolerance schemes in BG as well. The League of Colored People had there part in it too. I would suspect they knew the challenge of the East Indian in the colony, even by mere numbers they were going to pose a threat.

As is usual with the Indo KKK every one is blamed for racism other than Indians.

I will suggest to you that plans by certain Indian elites in the early 20th century of fostering more immigration by Indian indentures, with the goal of turning British Guiana into "an Indian colony," wasn't going to reassure other groups.  And in fact it led to an ethnic race with "colored" groups then demanding more immigration from the Caribbean to prevent non Indians from being outnumbered.  THAT was the beginning of our Indo vs. Afro/mixed competition in Guyana.

If Brazilians walked into Guyana and then declared that they will want more Brazilians in so that Guyana could then become a de facto part of Brazil I am willing to be that you will become alarmed, and justifiably so.

To be specific, the Luckhoos wanted to bring in more indentures into the colony. I do not believe it was their intentions to marginalized the Amerindians, the Negroes or the Coloreds. The Portuguese and Chinese were a small portion of the population and there were no Douglas or mixtures of Chinese and Portuguese. There were a sizeable number of Buffiandahs.

FRom among the peoples living in the colony, it was the Coloreds, mainly eurocentric and educated were really concerned over the plan. Ofcourse, they had great influence in the colony. They scuttled the plan. By then, it was too late, the indentureds were a great number. The Coloreds used their influence to secure benefits for their group. Later, the British Guiana East Indian Association would imitate the efforts of the Coloreds, moving up the Colonial Ladder. Now, there were Coloreds and East Indians from BG being patronized by the Crown. And there began a silent animosity.

Unfortunately, poorer class Guyanese would feel the perils of that era.    

Even when old cretchens die, Racism will always exist in Guyana and elsewhere. Another two isms are Militarism and Consumerism. Those three affects the poorer classes of people all over the world.

Gilbakka posted:

Mars posted:

cain posted:

Racial strife could end when they put those such as yourselves in quarantine for the rest of your lives.

Unfortunately this is not such a practical solution and we'll just have to wait for these racist ole Cretins to succumb andhopefully they haven't infected their young with their dreadful disease.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the young have already been infected with "their dreadful disease". As God above me, Mars, the way the 2015 election campaign was proceeding in Guyana I never expected the PPP to perform so well at the polls. Old and young Indians closed ranks at the crucial moment, thanks to the timely intervention of Ramharack, Ravi Dev, Ryhaan Shah, the Swami etc. One more thing: Jagan knew his electoral base was the Indo community but never did he say openly that the PPP is a coolie people party, as Rohee did just before the elections. That statement helped to rally the herd.

Gil,

You can do a lot better than this. Blacks voted PNC as much as Indos voted PPP at the last general election. I can further add that some Indians were open minded enough to give the PNC a try and we all know the end result today.

Why identify that Indos vote PPP alone and intentionally ignore that blacks voted 99 percent PNC at the last election ?

We need to first acknowledge that the issue of race based voting in Guyana with both blacks and Indos. This is not exclusive to Indos only.

Please don't get sucked in by the Afrocentrics like Mars who see every Indo who speak out against racism as racists. How come Afros who speak out against discrimination are not seen as racists ?

Why the double standard ?

There is a different and unacceptable standard by used by Afrocentrics like Mars.  

They DO NOT want to see racial unity in Guyana and constantly poke the eyes of Indos and use bullying tactics as a method to diminish racial unity in Guyana by labelling Indos who speak out as racists.

Please try again.

yuji22 posted:

 

 

Gil,

 

Please don't get sucked in by the Afrocentrics like Mars who see every Indo who speak out against racism as racists. How come Afros who speak out against discrimination are not seen as racists ?

Why the double standard ?

There is a different and unacceptable standard by used by Afrocentrics like Mars.  

 

I'll let Mars respond to this one. Mars Afrocentric? Please consult your mental health specialist again.

yuji22 posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Mars posted:

cain posted:

Racial strife could end when they put those such as yourselves in quarantine for the rest of your lives.

Unfortunately this is not such a practical solution and we'll just have to wait for these racist ole Cretins to succumb andhopefully they haven't infected their young with their dreadful disease.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the young have already been infected with "their dreadful disease". As God above me, Mars, the way the 2015 election campaign was proceeding in Guyana I never expected the PPP to perform so well at the polls. Old and young Indians closed ranks at the crucial moment, thanks to the timely intervention of Ramharack, Ravi Dev, Ryhaan Shah, the Swami etc. One more thing: Jagan knew his electoral base was the Indo community but never did he say openly that the PPP is a coolie people party, as Rohee did just before the elections. That statement helped to rally the herd.

Gil,

You can do a lot better than this. Blacks voted PNC as much as Indos voted PPP at the last general election. I can further add that some Indians were open minded enough to give the PNC a try and we all know the end result today.

Why identify that Indos vote PPP alone and intentionally ignore that blacks voted 99 percent PNC at the last election ?

We need to first acknowledge that the issue of race based voting in Guyana with both blacks and Indos. This is not exclusive to Indos only.

Please don't get sucked in by the Afrocentrics like Mars who see every Indo who speak out against racism as racists. How come Afros who speak out against discrimination are not seen as racists ?

Why the double standard ?

There is a different and unacceptable standard by used by Afrocentrics like Mars.  

They DO NOT want to see racial unity in Guyana and constantly poke the eyes of Indos and use bullying tactics as a method to diminish racial unity in Guyana by labelling Indos who speak out as racists.

Please try again.

You're sofa king stupid, it ain't funny. Am I Black and Afrocentric? You have to make up all kinds of shit which is obviously ludicrous to anyone who knows me. How can a vile racist like you even dare to mention racial unity? Have you no bloody shame?

Gilbakka posted:

yuji22 posted:

 

 

Gil,

 

Please don't get sucked in by the Afrocentrics like Mars who see every Indo who speak out against racism as racists. How come Afros who speak out against discrimination are not seen as racists ?

Why the double standard ?

There is a different and unacceptable standard by used by Afrocentrics like Mars.  

 

I'll let Mars respond to this one. Mars Afrocentric? Please consult your mental health specialist again.

He needs to go back to BMH for additional treatment

Gilbakka posted:

.As God above me, Mars, the way the 2015 election campaign was proceeding in Guyana I never expected the PPP to perform so well at the polls..

Guyanese use two strategies as they seek t avoid discussions of race.

1.  "Is de palitishun to blame. WE does get on except during elections". Said with a straight face even after the AFC tried to campaign in 2006 and in 2011 as a non race based party, and was thoroughly rejected by Guyanese who exercised their democratic rights to vote for the same ones who they blame.

2.  "Is only de ol' people racial. We does mix, and gat fren of all races". Yet with a very young voting base and a very high voter turn out 2015 turned out to be the same ethnic census that every election has been since 1957. 

If young Guyanese were non racial Jagdeo wouldn't be the racist charlatan that he is, as he was born after the 60s in a relatively diverse part of Guyana, and was expected to be better when he assumed the presidency.  Jagdeo wasn't even 40 when he became president.  He turned out to be far more racist, and exploitative of racial angst then his mentor Cheddi Jagan who was considerably older.