If the PPP isn't racist why isn't Sam Hinds the President?  The constitution stipulated that the PM replace the president in his death.  The PPP would have rather had a white FOREIGNER than a black GUYANESE so you went thru all sorts of machinations.

Also when the PPP controlled the parliament which Afros did they have as speaker and deputy?

You rush to the defence of a racist PNC.

Same old PNC.

They installed their "own" for both positions, speaker and deputy.

AFC will one day receive the "Sharma" treatment from the PNC.

The PNC has a pattern of racism. To this day, they refuse to apologize to Indo Guyanese for the attempts by the PNC to humiliate and exterminate Indo Guyanese.

do not be mad at least you is a indian antiman,the black people cannot take that away from you

why don't answer the man regarding Sam Hinds instead of attacking him?

Bro, this racial tone will not help to win your fight. I will advise you as a friend to leave this topic aside. There are two things in this world that don't have cure, religious indifference and racial arguments. The cure will come if we can all practice tolerance to people who are different from us by race or how they worship. Let's rise above ourselves for once. 

Now if you wanted to prove that the PPP isn't racist you would have given us the names of who the deputy speaker was, as we know that the speaker was an Indian.  You would have also told us why Hinds was only allowed to be "president for a day".

But you know the basic anti black orientation of the PPP, one which you fully endorse by the way, so you seek to distract!

If you wish to prove that the PNC is racist then you need to show that the PPP isn't. 

Good because you know full well that the notion of the PPP accusing the PNC of being racist is like the pot calling the pan black.  The PPP and the PNC are BOTH racist parties which exploit the ethnic insecurities of their core support bases.

If the PPP is not racist, why was there never a black speaker?  The PPP have a secret rule that no Afro can be the leader. Why is it that  the CGA, does not have any black Guyanese? You are a congenital racist. 

Deborah Bakker, and after her death,Basil Williams were both elected Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly. On both occasions the PPP stated quite clearly, without proposing any candidate from the PPP, that they had no objections to Bakker/Williams being elected. Thus they both won their position by acclamation.

To those who said that Sam Hinds did not occupy the Presidency for even a day, let me ask you who fulfilled the role of President of Guyana from the time Dr.Jagan fell ill until his death?

It's shocking how poorly informed yuji is about the political situation in Guyana, but how he gets paid to pretend that he is.

Yugi and Caribj  are in the same boat when it comes to race.

The PNC is not a racist political party, they are open to other races and history can speak for itself. MANY INDIANS SERVE in the high echelons of the PNC.

The  PNC  opened their door to so many Indians hence CaribJ and his small group of RACIST dissidents coined the name Desi Persaud. They were unhappy that Mr Desmond Hoyte surrounded himself with so many Indians, especially the successful businessmen. 

In the other racist PPP camp, they coined the name CREEP for the Indians who supported Mr Hoyte.

 Brother T its DIFFICULT TO CHANGE THE MINDSET OF THE TYPES LIKE YUGI AND CARIBj.

Yes we know that Sam Hinds was "president for a day".  What we want to know us why did the PPP dump him for Janet?  Indeed in many countries, Janet as a foreigner, would not have been allowed to be head of state.

  So why are you demanding that the PNC apologize to get Indian support?  With this track record of openness they ought to be getting Indian support.

Chief you have tied yourself in a knot, but don't know how to get out of it.  So in your eyes I am a racist because I remind you that not only Indians feel impacted by racism in Guyana.

Also why didn't Hoyte get Indian support, if he was as open as you claim?  Either he wasn't, or Indians are too racist to support a black man. Take your pick.

I did not tie myself in any knot. Go and read every single post that I made , all I am saying is that IN ORDER  for the PNC TO REALLYappeal to Guyanese they need to apologize. I said that at this point Iam not dealing with the PPP and thier racism.

What came as a big surprise to me  is you and Redux saying that an apology by the PNC is an apology by blacks to Indians and  every blackman is PNC.

What utter racist  rubbish!!

  Kari said that the PNC must apologize to get Indian support.    You agreed.

If the PNC isn't about race,

1.  why do they have to apologize to get the Indian  vote, even as they get up to 90% of the black vote?

2.  why didn't Hoyte get more support from Indians.  It is either that they were RACIST towards Indians, or Indians cant vote for a black man.  Take your pick!

1.  Who do black people vote for.  1992, 1997, 2001, 2006, 2011.  These elections weren't rigged.  Also why did they vote for the party which they supported?

2. Answer the same question for Indians.

Given the above the shock that a demand put in a tribal context would get a tribal response?

You want (1) to apologize to (2)  when (2) is as guilty as (1), and then you are shocked at our response. 

If both the PPP and the PNC keep nasty yards why must it be only the PNC which is forced to clean it up?

And yes chief, we as blacks and Indians bear responsibility for the behavior of the PPP and the PNC because it is they who exploited our ethnic fears and we CONTINUE to support them despite this!

And your point is? 

Carib J

I have stated my case and no need to rehash over and over.

I maintained that on this thread I am dealing with the PNC, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE PNC AND HOW CAN THEY APPEAL TO EVERY GUYANESE.

Your conclusion and you have produced facts that the PNC is supported largely by blacks so automatically blacks are apologizing. My question to you is so what is wrong with an apology ? When the PNC takes the first step then it will automatically back the PPP in a corner. You have to understand that the PPP was elected and the PNC STOLE THEIR WAY into office. We are speaking about elections here my friend,  not the other social injustices. You taking your THIEVING ELECTIONS shit and want to paint the PPP with that.

Let me make it clear and repeat it to yourself the PPP did not steal an election!!

yOU DO NOT HAVE THE INTEREST OF THE pnc or blacks  in your heart, you are blinded by mob justice. You are with the group that says "Mo Fiah", that my friend is the "Mo Fiah" backlash in all you stupid racists backsides.

Let me tell you how an elected Government the PPP dealt with your Mo Faih nonsense. They broke the laws and created a Phantom  squad to wipe out  your supporters who want "mo fiah". The PPP used black police officers to justify  killing of  peaceful citizens not only in Linden but Albion and Springlands as well. Do you ask why they can do this, is because racists fools like yourself want to burn and destroy, so you give  the PPP enough cause  to justify  their actions.  Blacks will remain oppressed as long as idiots like yourself are around. You racist idiots were annoyed when Mr Desmond Hoyte reached across the racial divide, you are annoyed now that M rGranger is making some inroads along the racial divide.

I can't say loud enough you are no different than the coolie PPP racist who are on this board. You will never  take the first step to a resolution all you want is 'the wrong and strong" attitude, well the PPP is duly reciprocating. Do I agree with that , of course not!!!

Well put Chief. Salient points indeed.

Where CaribJ went wrong is the arithmetic. To defeat the PPP you have to make the majority of their supporters stay home or vote for APNU or vote for another party, thus making the PPP a minority party and either get them out of office or they have to play ball.

The majority of the PPP supporters are Indians - that's a fact of race and not a racial statement. Now, the key is how do you make nice to this disaffected group of voters. By being nice. This is opinion now - the PNC in its current incarnation does not make this PPP majority base think of it as nice.

Note we are not talking about injustices by the PPP to Blacks; and a case can be made that the PPP is not perpetrating injustices to Blacks but to a whole class of Guyanese - of all races. Blacks historically under Burnham even never owned Regent St or Water St and were in crowded urban dwelling with little ownership of private property or access to loans etc. That's the whole point CaribJ misses - get somebody in office that can address this, and it's not Indians doing what to Black, it's what the PNC did to the majority of Guyanese and by extension the majority base of the PPP that is Indian.

Redux is anothe whole story. That boy has issues and is perpetually angry with no solutions at all.

I am the one who is warning you about the fact that we have an increasing frustrated and alienated lumpen proletariat group among the Africans.  This presents a security problem akin to what we have in Trinidad and Jamaica.

You interpret this to suggest that I advocate "mo fiah".

Chief I will not flatter myself that some one like me, clearly coming from many generations of upper middle class people, will have any influence over people in places like Tiger Bay, Albouystown, Agricola, Linden, or else where. 

So continue to think that it is I who advocate violence.  We not only have a racial problem, but we also have a class problem, and that is Trotman's dilemma as he can't get those people's votes, even as they don't trust the PNC.

Chief I fully understand the ethnic insecurity issues of Indians and why they don't trust the PNC, or for that matter the GDF.

What YOU wish to deny is that there is an equally powerful and dangerous feeling of alienation among blacks.  Now you don't have to worry about middle class black people.  With their education and skills they will find something to do, if not in Guyana, then elsewhere.

You need to worry about the people who feel that every step they take there is harassment, at the hands of the police, and instigated by the PPP, so they think.  And that no one cares enough to help them.

But you are so stuck in your ignorance that you don't understand that the issue isn't political.  The PNC can't harm a fly now.

What you need to worry about are the same criminals who you all provided guns to.  Yes they work free lance and some are in the process of being quite influential in certain environs.  This is exactly what the rich elites of Jamaica and Trinidad did, and look at what it created. 

You also need to worry about criminals masquerading as policemen.

You know what will cause problems.  Nothing to do with what the PNC attempts to do.  It will be when one of these criminal cops kills an innocent boy, and the community rises up in indignation, aided and abetted by certain criminal groups to further their control over the community and to strengthen the loyalties that they get FROM the community.

So here is where we are.  Just as the "dons" in parts of Trinidad and Jamaica began to control certain neighborhoods by "helping" these people, so this is beginning to happen in Guyana.  The problem arises when these people no longer see either the gov't or the PNC as being able and willing to help them, and find that these "dons" can.

Just remember the mayhem that occurred with Dudus in Jamaica a few years ago. 

I warned you, you decided to shoot the messenger.  I did my job.

Chief this is where you make yourself look either like a moron or as a dishonest clown.

You asked me what do I suggest that the PNC do.  My response was ideas and talking to every one INCLUDING RICE FARMERS.  I endorsed his reaching out to RH.

Now because you are a racist jackass who tries to hides that (if you throw around who is racist then I will too)  by LYING about what I said about Granger.

Show me the post where I condemn Granger's outreach or go hide like the mangy dog that you are!

Where you are going wrong is that you reduce humans to arithmetic.

1. We have TWO groups with narratives of abuse and discrimination.  NOT ONE.  So when you demand that the party which represents one group apologizes to get the support of the other group, without acknowledging that this group also has its grievances, then you are asking for trouble.

You can furnish NO proof that a mere apology will garner the PNC votes from Indians to offset the loss of votes from people who don't trust Granger (because they think he is too middle class) and secretly fear that he might sell them out to get soup, as they feel that Corbin did.

2.  When poor blacks feel persecuted by agents of the PPP (police) then they will racialize their discontent, so your big mistake is to take these people for granted.  This phantoms nonsense that Jagdeo peddled did a lot to destroy any prospect of cross racial alliances.  Prior to that Jagdeo was actually beginning to make inroads, but he lost that,  Too many people were guilt, and not all were criminals.  Indeed a UG student was killed going home.  Now we have this kid who was shot in the mouth.  And that is what you hear about.

Kari.  The apology isn't going to work. Cease demanding it.  All you do is open up a nightmare of who suffered more and therefore who should get the apology.

Yes APNU has work to do.  Yes it must figure out how to reduce the suspicion in how it is viewed by the groups which don't support them. Indians AND Amerindians.  But it must do so without giving the group which MOST supports it, grass roots Africans, reason to fear being betrayed.  They are really in a highly insecure state now, and the poorest among them desperate enough to do anything.  There are now areas where some of them live that can easily be Haiti, and Guyana was NEVER like that prior to the late 70s.

I posted a link on another site showing that more than 70% of people in the Bahamas, St Kitts Nevis, and Barbados have access to internet.  Guyana, a mere 33%. Only Belize and Haiti did worse in CARICOM. AS you well know this access is no longer defined by having a lap top.  This suggests that Guyanese are really poor.

So why not suggest that APNU goes out into the field to approach EVERY ONE, and do a LISTENING tour, just as Granger apparently did in RH.  How often do politicians listen. Usually they boast about themselves and blame the other side. 

APNU should LISTEN to hear the problems, and the solutions that various stakeholders have to resolve their problems.  People like it when others listen, and by involving people in solving their problems it suggests the beginnings of a partnership.

The rice farmers have issues, as do the sugar workers, as do the former bauxite workers, vendors, and those in the mining sectors, construction, small business people, peasant farmers, civil servants, unemployed youths, single parents, etc. 

Now wouldn't it be great if APNU (and the AFC) do more than just blocking PPP initiatives, but also attempted to build bonds with people.

Of course the PPP will attempt to block these plans, but if these initiatives came, not from Carl Greenidge, but from the various stakeholders, then don't you not see what impact it has? Even if the PPP implements if these initiatives were the result of fact finding and listening tours, there are those who will give APNU (and the AFC) credit.

Now isn't this better than an apology, which can be misinterpreted in our racially polarized environment?

This is what is being sophisticated. Its doing things that haven't been done before, and indeed YOUR hero Obama did this in 2008.  All Granger needs to do, if he wins, is not to close the door to the people as Obama did.

If APNU and the AFC want to break into new support bases, while keeping their own supporters happy, they need to get out of their offices and get to the people!

Okay so point of correction. You embraced Mr Granger visit to Richmondhill.

de climbdown parade in full effect

har har harrr

Well put Chief. Salient points indeed.

Hilited is kinda redundant deh kari...hehehe

I mentioned why the PNC should not apologize. Firstly , they are being accused of everything from enslavement of Indians, genocide, rapes, etc.  The lists of "crimes" they are accused of is a central theme of the PPP, their chief adversary. One cannot allow the talking point to emerge that the PNC by their own admission through their apology has implicitly admutted to the list of crimes.

Further, it does not solve a damn thing. Whatever ails the nation is the something that poisons both the PPP  and the PNC. We heed a cathartic moment for both parties and lacking that the low level internecine warfare continues. To this point, only the AFC for good or bad has been able to give us new direction. It is not on account of them being food at articulating change but that a significant portion of our population wants better then the two Major parties.

Lastly, even academicians and practical political mediators do not request anyone apologize. The field of conflict resolution knows  well apologies can muddy the process and so they demand new start with an assumption of no blame and new beginnings.

??????????

Wah de rass!!!

Your idiocy continues unabated.

Let me make my final statement on this thread:

Indo Guyanese including including myself will have closure and forgive the PNC for their past misdeeds if they apologize.

The opposition can give the PPP a run for their money if the PNC offers an apology, they have a good chance of winning a free and fair election.

Granger conducts and carries himself like a true statesman despite his past association with the Burnham/Hoyte dictatorship era. He is a mature politician and has indicated that he is interested in a party of national unity.

I like what I hear from Granger. I am beginning to like Granger due to the fact that he carries himself in a professional manner and looks presidential. 

What is the PNC waiting for ?

You are only baiting the PNC for election propaganda. Last night NCN and Mr Ramroop station are only showing how PNC kill Rodney. Mr Granger went to Queens and all we in Guyana hear on PPP media is he face protestors.  You are your kind are wicked and evil and deceiving people. You get Mr Jagdeo to make an apology as PNC make their own. Then we will talk.

You will not vote PNC because you have no interest in a black president, and so you prove that those who think that  PNC apology to Indians will make a difference fool themselves. 

Check out dat word "chief"

Neva too ole fo larn.

Mits, if you take Yugi at face value, there is a lot to like. The PNC still has a lot of work to do. work the poor communities. Show their vision to take Guyana from a primary producing economy to a light manufacturing and technology services one. Show how the PNC can raise the people's work skills and stay within budget while you make these investments. Show how you can encourage the right type of overseas partnerships and investments. Casinos, hotels and the like are not sustaining investments with lateral positives.

The PPP has had 22 years to bring Guyana out from a dependency economy and quite frankly it is still the same economy structurally since the 80s.

Gurl, why bother?! Don't you have a fight to pick with Nehru?

Cainsta, like you're being sally-ent on de Chief points!

It's more than main, or chief, or put succinctly. It's like an epiphany, and ah-ha moment, a eureka.....