Skip to main content

Former President Bharrat Jagdeo (second from left) arriving at the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) headquarters on Camp Road yesterday. At right is attorney Anil Nandlall.

September 18 2018

Source

Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him.

“We intend to file a full defence at some point once it gets to the court. That’s where you will see all the issues that you have been asking me about. At this stage, like the other members of the Cabinet, we choose the right to be silent and in this case I chaired the Cabinet in an official capacity, so we invoked that…,” Jagdeo told reporters shortly after meeting with SOCU investigators.

Last week, he was invited to the unit’s Camp Street Headquarters to be questioned about a 2010 Cabinet meeting, where the allocations of parcels of land and other matters concerning the housing scheme were discussed. In addition to Jagdeo, eight other Cabinet members were questioned and it is unclear who else will be summoned in the coming days.

Last Tuesday, Priya Manickchand who was the Human Services Minister in 2010 was questioned. The following day, former Transport Minister Robeson Benn, former Prime Minister Samuel Hinds, former Housing Minister Irfaan Ali, former Labour Minister Manzoor Nadir, former Minister of Amerindian Affairs Pauline Sukhai; former Local Government Minister Kellawan Lall and former Health Minister Dr.Bheri Ramsaran were all questioned. They were not told to return or what is likely to happen next.

This was Jagdeo’s second encounter with SOCU on the housing scheme. In March last year, he and other former Cabinet members were questioned by SOCU. He visited SOCU after being arrested at his Church Street office.

Flanked by his attorneys, Anil Nandlall, Sase Gunraj and Euclin Gomes, he said that he was asked questions similar to the ones his fellow Cabinet members were asked. Based on what the others had said, they were asked about certain documents and whether they had asked for land, among other things.

Jagdeo, who spent less than half an hour with the officers, told reporters that nothing was said about the filing of charges but “knowing this government they would drag it a little bit and try to get charges laid sometime closer to the elections.”

He was not told when he would hear from SOCU again. “I guess it is gonna be another round of media and publicity,” he said.

Nandlall informed that Jagdeo invoked the immunity that the law guarantees him. “The questions related to when Jagdeo was the president and was Chairman of Cabinet and as such we invoked that Article that immunised him from questioning and …any legal process whatsoever,” he said.

Article 182(1) of the Constitution says, “subject to the provisions of Article 180 the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”

Existing case

Nandlall also made reference to a civil case pertaining to these lands, which was filed by a group headed by former APNU Member of Parliament Desmond Trotman and which is at a standstill. He informed that this case against some of the allottees of ‘Pradoville 2’ lands is still in the system although Affidavits in Defence have been filed.

The group, in September, 2015, had moved to the High Court seeking, among other things, to have the sales of plots on two parcels of land known as ‘Pradoville 1’ and ‘Pradoville 2’ declared null and void as the sales were done surreptitiously at undervalued prices to former government ministers, officials and cronies of the PPP/C.

A special investigation of the housing development, which was part of a larger probe of the financial operations of the Central Housing and Planning Authority (CH&PA), was conducted by accounting firm Ram & McRae.

The investigation revealed that the allocation of the land was a clandestine arrangement that was handled personally by Ali and it was concluded that a criminal case for misfeasance could be made against the PPP/C Cabinet members who benefitted.

It was found that lots in the 12.1187-acre scheme were allocated to six Cabinet members—then President Jagdeo, Cabinet Secretary Dr Roger Luncheon and ministers Manickchand, Dr Jennifer Westford, Robert Persaud and Clement Rohee—along with other persons with connections to the government, including Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) Shalimar Ali-Hack and former army head Gary Best.

The probe found that the awardees grossly underpaid for the lots by a total of nearly $250 million, while the state-owned National Industrial and Commercial Investments Limited, National Communications Network, and Guyana Power and Light Inc were never reimbursed for millions spent to execute preparatory works.

The findings of the investigation were later referred to SOCU for a criminal probe to be launched.

The unit had completed its investigation and the file was sent for legal advice. It was returned with a recommendation that some additional work be done. This was done and the file was resubmitted for advice. SOCU was then required to do some additional work, which was done and the file was returned to the legal advisor. However a “small issue” arose and efforts are now being made to sort that out before charges are laid. According to what this newspaper was told, multiple persons will be charged.

Not for security

Before entering the building yesterday, Jagdeo denied Benn’s previous claim that the scheme was established for security reasons.

Jagdeo, while noting that this was never discussed at Cabinet, said Benn indicated to him that that was “his view.” He said too that Benn denied stating this to SOCU.

Shortly after exiting SOCU Headquarters, Benn told reporters that he told the investigators that the scheme was established to ensure the safety of government officials during the crime wave.

Recalling the violence during the crime wave which claimed the life of former Agriculture Minister Satyadeow Sawh and his relatives, Benn had said that he did point out to the investigator questioning him that the “security of the senior members of the government and senior personages was an overriding issue and that it had to do with the stability of the country to make sure that the President and other members of the Cabinet, that they would want to be secure and safe and whatever was done had to be done.” Benn does not live in the scheme nor did he buy land there.

Jagdeo insisted that if security was indeed an issue, he would not have bought land and built a house at that location, “at the back next to the sea wall where the gunmen can easily hide…and shoot at you.” He then said there are varying explanations as to why the scheme was developed.

He was also adamant that he would not pay the difference in the value of his land. Persaud, after being questioned, had expressed a willingness to pay the difference if called upon to do so.

“I said that already… no, the answer is no. It has not changed from my earlier explanation,” Jagdeo said.

Jagdeo was also not up to defending the perception that the lands were preferentially allocated. Stressing that he has dealt with the matter ad nauseam before, he said, “I am not going to address it again.”

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Your header makes to sense!  Exactly what did Jagdo invoke?  However, I don’t know how relevant his position will be.  And a sitting head of state is different from other ministers anyway!

HE Granger will pardon himself anyway, and in this regard, he is more powerful than Trump!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Baseman posted:

Your header makes to sense!  Exactly what did Jagdo invoke?  However, I don’t know how relevant his position will be.  And a sitting head of state is different from other ministers anyway!

"Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him."

"Article 182(1) of the Constitution says, “subject to the provisions of Article 180 the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidential Immunity in the Burnham 1980 illegal Constitution.

Django

That is standard in most countries, even the USA.  That is not unique to Guyana or burnham constitution!  You need to pierce that via other process.

I’m sure it was a provision in the old constitution! 

FM

Until there is constitutional change Jagdeo is doing the fit and proper thing to claim presidential immunity benefit. To charge him would be a violation of the Constitution, I think.

FM
Baseman posted:

That is standard in most countries, even the USA.  That is not unique to Guyana or burnham constitution!  You need to pierce that via other process.

I’m sure it was a provision in the old constitution!

Executive President and immunity was established in October 6,1980.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...s_of_state_of_Guyana

 

Django

The PNC needs to focus on the issues and economy and not create side shows to prove nothing!   

The PNC, whilst in power, behaving like the Democrats here in the USA.  And Jagdeo is like Guyana’s Trump, hauling them around by them arse and gave dem grabbing dem own balls!

FM
Django posted:
Baseman posted:

Your header makes to sense!  Exactly what did Jagdo invoke?  However, I don’t know how relevant his position will be.  And a sitting head of state is different from other ministers anyway!

"Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him."

"Article 182(1) of the Constitution says, “subject to the provisions of Article 180 the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidential Immunity in the Burnham 1980 illegal Constitution.

You must really feel depressed that Jagdeo is invoking his constitutional right.

FM
Gilbakka posted:

Until there is constitutional change Jagdeo is doing the fit and proper thing to claim presidential immunity benefit. To charge him would be a violation of the Constitution, I think.

Immunities of the President

182.

(1)

Subject to the provisions of article 180, the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him in his personal capacity in respect thereof either during his term of office or thereafter.

(2)

Whilst any person holds or performs the functions of the office of President no criminal proceedings shall be instituted or continued against him in respect of anything done or omitted to be done by him in his private capacity and no civil proceedings shall be instituted or continued in respect of which relief is claimed against him for anything done or omitted to be done in his private capacity.

(3)

Where provision is made by law limiting the time within which proceedings of any description may be brought against any person, the period during which any person holds or performs the functions of the office of President shall not be taken into account in calculating any period of time prescribed by that law for bringing any such proceedings as are mentioned in paragraph (2) against him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Constitution is clear regarding the Immunities of the President.

Django
Last edited by Django
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
Baseman posted:

Your header makes to sense!  Exactly what did Jagdo invoke?  However, I don’t know how relevant his position will be.  And a sitting head of state is different from other ministers anyway!

"Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him."

"Article 182(1) of the Constitution says, “subject to the provisions of Article 180 the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidential Immunity in the Burnham 1980 illegal Constitution.

You must really feel depressed that Jagdeo is invoking his constitutional right.

Nah man,

the 1980 Burnham Constitution that the PPP was badmouthing comes in handy.

Django
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted:
Django posted:
Baseman posted:

Your header makes to sense!  Exactly what did Jagdo invoke?  However, I don’t know how relevant his position will be.  And a sitting head of state is different from other ministers anyway!

"Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him."

"Article 182(1) of the Constitution says, “subject to the provisions of Article 180 the holder of the office of President shall not be personally answerable to any court for the performance of the functions of his or her office or for any act done in the performance of those functions and no proceedings, whether criminal or civil, shall be instituted against him or her in his or her personal capacity in respect thereof either during his or her term of office or thereafter.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidential Immunity in the Burnham 1980 illegal Constitution.

You must really feel depressed that Jagdeo is invoking his constitutional right.

Nah man,

the 1980 Burnham Constitution that the PPP was badmouthing comes in handy.

Yes PPP badmouth it and it works for them . APNU badmouth it and they wouldn’t change it.

Django political party of honesty  in government next week, you will forget about the badmouthing, cause it wok for you. 

The constitution created by PNC works conveniently for all political party in government.

 

FM

 

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM?

Our constitution which has been modelled and inspired by the British is uninspiring and flawed. It has not stimulated the population, but interestingly, it has instilled power in the ruling elites who have benefited immensely from it over the years. The constitution was created by politicians for politicians, but this seminal document is soulless. On many occasions it did not protect the people from the abuses by the state.
The present constitution originated from the May 1966 constitution on the attainment of independence and was enacted in October 1980 following a nation-wide referendum that was boycotted by the PPP. Among other things, the Constitution reaffirmed the principle that Guyana is a democratic state founded on the rule of law, with executive power vested in the President. It created a number of organs that were consistent with the socialist political system in Cuba and a presidency with supreme power who is immune from prosecution while in office.
While in opposition, the PPP cabal had criticized the constitution and dubbed it as the “Burnham constitution.” It had vowed to amend it in order to reduce the powers of the presidency if elected to office. However, during the PPP’s 23 years reign from 1992 to 2015, it did not fulfill its promise to amend the constitution. Instead, the PPP made some cosmetic changes, but kept the powers of the Presidency intact and used them to its advantage to strengthen its autocratic rule on the nation. It also praised the Constitution as one of the most progressive in the Caribbean.
The current administration, when in opposition did the same. It criticized the PPP government for abusing the Constitution and promised to amend it if elected. The APNU+AFC opposition claimed that the Constitution in its existing form did not serve the interest of the people but those in power and promised to appoint a Commission to amend it within three months of taking office.
Their intent was to reduce the power of the Presidency and include the Bill of Rights in the constitution to protect the ethos of the nation’s liberal democracy and individual rights and freedoms. Now in office for almost three years, the coalition government seems to renege on its campaign promise to amend the Constitution, which was one of the key items in their Manifesto.
Instead of appointing a Commission to examine the Constitution and recommend changes, the government appointed a Steering Committee which suggests that it was serious about amending the Constitution in a two-stage approach, first, a Steering Committee followed by a Commission.In April of last year, the Steering Committee handed its recommendation to the Prime Minister with the belief that it would have been debated by the cabinet.
Included in the recommendations are the reduction of the powers of the President, decentralization of power to the municipalities and the ten regions and the reorganization of the electoral system from proportional representation to first-past-the post. The goal of the latter is for the constituents to know their representatives and to hold them accountable.
However, the recommendations hit a raw nerve with the President who stated that he did not want a “boardroom constitutional reform” which means he did not want a group of people to sit in a boardroom and make changes to the constitution. He wanted the voices of the people from the various communities to be heard.
The nation’s worst fears were realized because there seems to be different positions between the coalition partners on constitutional reform. This threw the entire reform process of the constitution into a tailspin and dampen all future prospects for Constitutional reform. Since then, there has not been any serious discussion of constitution reform by this government.
It is rather unfortunate that Constitutional reform which has been a major plank of the coalition parties in the last election has been stalled. The truth is no president, past or present wants his powers to be reduced while in office because they believe it will inhibit their authority.

https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...nstitutional-reform/

FM
yuji22 posted:

AFC/PNC broke a whopping 95 percent of their election promises.

Base correctly identified the PNC as similar to the Democrats.

 

The PPP is embracing the constitution and will not support any changes. 

Mitwah

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

Who are the AFC weeder gang and who are their rouge (red powder) leaders?

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

Who are the AFC weeder gang and who are their rouge (red powder) leaders?

The bhai means rogue leaders. Rogues.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

Who are the AFC weeder gang and who are their rouge (red powder) leaders?

The bhai means rogue leaders. Rogues.

BTW, Rouge Park is a wonderful place at this time of the year to quietly enjoy nature in a busy place.

Who are these rogue leaders?

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

Who are the AFC weeder gang and who are their rouge (red powder) leaders?

The bhai means rogue leaders. Rogues.

BTW, Rouge Park is a wonderful place at this time of the year to quietly enjoy nature in a busy place.

Who are these rogue leaders?

Ask y22. I never called AFC leaders rogues. Crooked perhaps.

FM
yuji22 posted:

Well, the AFC and PNC campaigned to change the constitution. How about asking them to keep their promises ?

I see that the AFC weeder gang has lost access to their rouge leaders.

SMH

You getting stale with the new phrase "weeder gang" adding AFC, wont coverup the condescending usage to describe a female.

Django

Jagdeo sounds confident in his position that the govt is merely on a fishing expedition. I agree with Gilbaka that the govt needs to focus on the country but in parallel they should continue the socu investigations in the event that crimes were indeed committed by the PPP members. 

FM
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

AFC/PNC broke a whopping 95 percent of their election promises.

Base correctly identified the PNC as similar to the Democrats.

 

The PPP is embracing the constitution and will not support any changes. 

I challenge the AFC weeder Gang to bring forth constitutional change legislation in Parliament instead of hiding under Granger’s skirt.

FM
Dave posted:
Django posted:
skeldon_man posted

You must really feel depressed that Jagdeo is invoking his constitutional right.

Nah man,

the 1980 Burnham Constitution that the PPP was badmouthing comes in handy.

Yes PPP badmouth it and it works for them . APNU badmouth it and they wouldn’t change it.

Django political party of honesty  in government next week, you will forget about the badmouthing, cause it wok for you. 

The constitution created by PNC works conveniently for all political party in government.

 

Well bhai Dave,decades the PPP was in power,all they did was a little changes here and there,they leave the sections that will protect their kleptocratic instincts intact.

The current administration voted in 2015,APNU (PNC) and AFC promised to reform the Constitution,bill is in Parliament,let us wait and see how long it will sit there.

Not because my views doesn't conform with the PPP-ites,you are trying to say i belong to the Parties currently in Gov't.I will state again not affiliated to any party.

That's a cheap shot.

Django

I find Jagdeo talk too much when he braced up with the media. He should make brief statements and move on. What immunity is he talking about when Granger haul him to court and SOCU got him running like a headless chicken to answer questions? 

FM
yuji22 posted:
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

AFC/PNC broke a whopping 95 percent of their election promises.

Base correctly identified the PNC as similar to the Democrats.

 

The PPP is embracing the constitution and will not support any changes. 

I challenge the AFC weeder Gang to bring forth constitutional change legislation in Parliament instead of hiding under Granger’s skirt.

There is a bill in Parliament for Constitution Reform,

did you miss it.

Django

Well, let dem bring it to a vote na Bia ? Goat bite dem AFC bais ?

Constitutional reform was one of the AFC pillars during the last campaign. They can talk nuff nuff lies.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:

Well, let dem bring it to a vote na Bia ? Goat bite dem AFC bais ?

Constitutional reform was one of the AFC pillars during the last campaign. They can talk nuff nuff lies.

Perhaps more than goat bite them.

However while minor changes can be made by a majority of MPs, the major changes under discussions need, as a minimum, two thirds support of the MPs.

When the constitution was made, Burnham "miraculously" got about 70% of the MPs.

Currently the PNCR & group have about 1% more than the PPPC.

FM

VIDEO: Jagdeo invokes immunity during SOCU questioning

Former President Bharrat Jagdeo (second from left) arriving at the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) headquarters on Camp Road yesterday. At right is attorney Anil Nandlall.

September 18 2018

Source

Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo yesterday declined to respond to questions from investigators concerning ‘Pradoville 2,’ invoking his presidential immunity from prosecution, although he has declared his readiness to defend himself in court if the Special Organised Crime Unit (SOCU) decides to charge him.

“We intend to file a full defence at some point once it gets to the court. That’s where you will see all the issues that you have been asking me about. At this stage, like the other members of the Cabinet, we choose the right to be silent and in this case I chaired the Cabinet in an official capacity, so we invoked that…,” Jagdeo told reporters shortly after meeting with SOCU investigators.

SOCU is probably unaware of the specific constitutional rights granted to individuals.

FM

Isn't it interesting that a party that governed dictatorially for 28 years and championed all sorts of corruption and mismanagement are now playing god under the cloak of SOCU?  Do these people have a thing called Shame in their soul?

Billy Ram Balgobin
Last edited by Billy Ram Balgobin

Dem AFC bais keep talking about Jagdeo fake wedding but they are silent on the fake Manifesto. 

Time to hold them to the many promises that they made. They spread fake news during the election and blatantly lied to Guyanese.

What is funny is that Granger told them to buzz off when they brought up the “accord”.

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member

What fake wedding ? The weeder gang keeps mentioning it while they blatantly lied to Guyanese about a fake manifesto.

Go and practice that dead house song to sing at AFC funeral. They are hiding under Granger’s skirt.

FM
Mitwah posted:
yuji22 posted:

Dem AFC bais keep talking about Jagdeo fake wedding but they are silent on the fake Manifesto. 

 

Dem even gat you talk about Jagdeo Fake Wedding. 

Myth,

Do you harbor any ill feelings for Ramjattan for not fulfilling his promise to make you the head of Guyana Revenue Authority? Just last weekend I overheard a conversation at Calypso Hut about this GRA position that you were supposed to get because YOU TIGHT with KR. 

Billy Ram Balgobin
yuji22 posted:

What fake wedding ? The weeder gang keeps mentioning it while they blatantly lied to Guyanese about a fake manifesto.

Go and practice that dead house song to sing at AFC funeral. They are hiding under Granger’s skirt.

The above speaks volumes of your inferiority complex. I am sorry that I make you feel less important in our Hindu society.

Mitwah

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×