Former Joginis, who are community leaders and committee members that DFN UK and Pratigya are supporting.
Once upon a time there was a woman who was the wife of a great Hindu sage. The sage and his wife had taken a vow of celibacy. One day she was at the river and she saw two sprites “frolicking” with each other. She wished that she and her husband could be sexually free too. The husband sensed her sexual desires and was so angry he ordered her to be beheaded. However, the sage bitterly regretted the decision, so he tried to fix it. He found the head of another woman from the lowest caste, and attached this to his wife’s body. She was resurrected, but instead of staying with her husband, she roamed by the river, a liberated, sexually free woman, like the sprites. She became the goddess “Yellama” and lived happily ever after.
This is the story told to some of the young girls in Southern India, in the region of Andhra Pradesh, where Yellamma is the patron goddess. At the age of between five and ten they are dedicated to the goddess in a special marriage ceremony, where they are given pretty clothes, strewn with petals, offered gifts and then forced to become sex slaves.
They are too young to fully comprehend what is happening to them until the ceremony is over and their fate is sealed. Saimma, aged 40 explains: *”I felt happy and great as a child saying that I am married and I used to say all the other children, ‘you also should get married to the goddess and then you will get new clothes and can have thali in your neck like me’. Only later did I realise what is the marriage really. In our society, if you have a husband you also have respect, but we die of shame.”
Venkatamma, 45, says, “My mother told me I was the goddess of our villagers. With time I came to know that what type of goddess I was. All are playing games with our life. Today we are living by dying. In the society we don’t have respect and we are subservient to everyone.”
The girls who have been put through this dedication ceremony are known as “Jogini”. Estimates say that 17000 girls are Jogini. They have the glamourous image of being a temple prostitiute, and like Yellama, they will never marry, which to outsiders gives an impression of freedom, but they will always be Jogini and cannot escape their fate. Although there are no physical restraints on them, the community will shun them if they try to take another profession.
“Sometimes they are locked in rooms and battered until they have no will to escape,” explains Dr Beryl D’souza Vali, the Director of Anti-Trafficking at Pratigya India, a charity which campaigns for an end to slavery in India. “But after that they are seen as a sex worker and there is no escaping that, so they are exploited at that level, even if they try to do something else, they will always be a sex worker.”
The young girls usually come from the lowest caste, the Dalits (‘untouchables’). Dalits have few rights and the majority live in extreme poverty. The practice of selling their children as Jogini is said to bring good luck to the families and they are also given a very small percentage of the money made from the sale of the child.
Ashamma, 45, was made a Jogini when she was eight years old. “My father was blind since birth. They made me a Jogini to get financial support. But I still have to go begging with my son because of my horrible situation and lack of food.”
D’souza Vali says that often the men involved in buying the girls are often respected members of society. ”There are stakeholders; they are people from the sex trade industry – politicians, religious leaders or prominent locals,” she explains, “the brothels in larger cities usually get a religious middle man in the village to visit the family to say this should happen.”
The only “escape” from being a Jogini comes from no longer being useful for sex, says D’souza Vali: ”Eventually they have had several children and contracted HIV and Aids, so they are no longer working, then they escape it”.
Jogini women sometimes dedicate their own daughters, because once they stop being useful as Jogini, there is no other way to get an income, or their children are taken and made into Jogini.
Savithramma, 22, was made a Jogini by her mother and grandmother after she gave birth to an illigitimate child when she was 14. “ I asked him after the child birth to marry me but he didn’t respond to me. So, my mother took me to temple and made my avva (grandmother) to tie thali to me. From that time onward all give me the title jogini. ”
“They use our children also after our death,” says Ashamma. “When we die, they take our children as their slaves. By that our children’s lives are also spoiled. Our children’s lives are also in darkness like ours.”
Laws do exist to protect the girls and women, but are rarely enforced. In the 1930s the British were the first ones who challenged the system and outlawed it. This was seen as disrespectful to the religious customs and culturally unaware. In some ways the law backfired and simply made Jogini life much harder. “One Jogini told me that the women used to enjoy a much higher patronage and they were like the Geisha girls in Japan” explains D’souza Vali. “They could do their own thing and not have to be married. It’s true that after the law was introduced they had to be more secretive and so exploitation increased.”
Later, in 1983, those laws were strengthened, but did not have an effect. D’souza Vali says there has not been a case using these protective laws for the last five years. “It’s hard to look at something clearly that is so entrenched with culture and religion, so what happens is a Jogini may get some but not enough help. The police themselves are not always aware of the law or are aware, but don’t really know how to implement the law.”
Malcolm Egner, of the Dalit Freedom Network (DFN), a charity that helps Dalit people (low-caste people) across the world to fight injustice against their caste, says there are many other barriers to getting help. “In some parts of India, Dalits are not allowed into police stations.” D’souza Vali explains, ”In 95 per cent of cases, if a Dalit woman goes to the police they won’t be helped. They are likely to get further harassment. In the unlikely case that the police are helpful there may be other barriers.”
Against all the barriers, a small group of ex-Jogini women are finally speaking out against the tradition. DFN is currently working with Pratigya India, D’souza Vali’s organisation, on a 12-month project in the region to help these women to help educate the Jogini and their families about their legal rights and also to intervene before the dedication ceremonies take place. The stories of abuse go on, but with some help, the ex-Jogini activists are working to prevent this abuse happening in the future. “They want an alternate life for their descendents,” says D’souza Vali.
To find out more or support the campaign visit www.dfn.org.uk or www.pratigyaindia.org
*Verbatim transcripts from the Jogini were compiled and translated by DFN and Pratigya India.
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Former Member
Does Cobra and Bash (or any of the other regular concerned citizens about human sufferings) have any ligitimate questions about this practice in the motherland?
I never knew about this practice. I don't think it is prevalent but still worrisome. Time men stopped taking advantage over women.
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
I never knew about this practice. I don't think it is prevalent but still worrisome. Time men stopped taking advantage over women.
I agree that it is way past time that men stop taking advantage of women. I also know that this will not get the kind of attention it would have gotten if it was a Muslim story. That has been proven time and again on these boards.
Like the attorney for Zimmerman first telling the media that his client was beat up by Trayvon Martin and now that the police video doesn't show any signs of blood or injury, he insists that he is not going to litigate the case in the media.
Rights and wrongs take sides here.
Former Member
“Jogini women sometimes dedicate their own daughters, because once they stop being useful as Jogini, there is no other way to get an income, or their children are taken and made into Jogini. Savithramma, 22, was made a Jogini by her mother and grandmother after she gave birth to an illigitimate child when she was 14. “ I asked him after the child birth to marry me but he didn’t respond to me. So, my mother took me to temple and made my avva (grandmother) to tie thali to me. From that time onward all give me the title jogini. ” “They use our children also after our death,” says Ashamma. “When we die, they take our children as their slaves. By that our children’s lives are also spoiled. Our children’s lives are also in darkness like ours.”
What a vicious cycle of darkness, hopelessness, abuse, and cruelty. Forced prostitution is the worst form of slavery. It continues to go on because of the heartless and spineless worms in our society who treat women and young girls as objects…bartered, sold, used, and then discarded. There are men out there who only want to be with virgins and so girls at a tender age are held hostage for these sick men. Those worms who engage in breaking the spirit and ruining lives ought to crawl into the ground and shrivel up and die.
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
I never knew about this practice. I don't think it is prevalent but still worrisome. Time men stopped taking advantage over women.
TI, this is the first time I've read about the joginis.
Nicolas Kristoff's book, "Half the Sky" is an eye opener to the plight of women around the world. I recommend it for further reading.
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Does Cobra and Bash (or any of the other regular concerned citizens about human sufferings) have any ligitimate questions about this practice in the motherland?
Ksazma, this practice of sexual slavery is global. The documentary, "Water", depicts another crime against women. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. It's about the life of widowed women, child widows included.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Miraver:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Does Cobra and Bash (or any of the other regular concerned citizens about human sufferings) have any ligitimate questions about this practice in the motherland?
Ksazma, this practice of sexual slavery is global. The documentary, "Water", depicts another crime against women. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. It's about the life of widowed women, child widows included.
No doubt Mira. That is why I try not to judge others. I refrain from the pretend 'care and concern for the suffering of others' charade also. The point I was making was that this thread would have taken off like a rocket if it was a Muslim story.
Former Member
No doubt Mira. That is why I try not to judge others. I refrain from the pretend 'care and concern for the suffering of others' charade also. The point I was making was that this thread would have taken off like a rocket if it was a Muslim story.
I agree 100% that the thread would have taken off had it been a Muslim story.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Miraver:
No doubt Mira. That is why I try not to judge others. I refrain from the pretend 'care and concern for the suffering of others' charade also. The point I was making was that this thread would have taken off like a rocket if it was a Muslim story.
I agree 100% that the thread would have taken off had it been a Muslim story.
And that is how easy it is to determine who people really are.
Former Member
The more salient question is why would the story had taken off if it was a Muslim story?
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
The more salient question is why would the story had taken off if it was a Muslim story?
Ray, four years of observation.
Get chief and d2 to post on this thread and yuh gun see tekking off 
Former Member
Originally Posted by Miraver:
Originally Posted by raymond:
The more salient question is why would the story had taken off if it was a Muslim story?
Ray, four years of observation.
I am not saying it would not take off...ah asking what is the reason for it taking off
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Miraver:
Originally Posted by raymond:
The more salient question is why would the story had taken off if it was a Muslim story?
Ray, four years of observation.
I am not saying it would not take off...ah asking what is the reason for it taking off
Hopefully one of those who takes it off will give their reason.
Former Member
Originally Posted by chameli:
My question is, what is the reason for posting this topic? is it to question how differently it may have gone if it was a story about muslims? does this story compare to the 'bacha boys'? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezaz rass, this is so rigamarole...i can only flip my lashes and move on
I may be wrong but I would think that posting this story has the same motive as posting one about Muslims. The difference, however, is this thread is grossly missing the kind of ridicule and insults that usually grace ths ones about Muslims. And some of those 'concerned citizens' do a horrible job in masking their motive.
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by chameli:
My question is, what is the reason for posting this topic? is it to question how differently it may have gone if it was a story about muslims? does this story compare to the 'bacha boys'? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezaz rass, this is so rigamarole...i can only flip my lashes and move on
I may be wrong but I would think that posting this story has the same motive as posting one about Muslims. The difference, however, is this thread is grossly missing the kind of ridicule and insults that usually grace ths ones about Muslims. And some of those 'concerned citizens' do a horrible job in masking their motive.
Maybe if you didn't get worked up everytime you see a topic about Muslims, then things would not have to get to the point where there is ridicule and insults...
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by chameli:
My question is, what is the reason for posting this topic? is it to question how differently it may have gone if it was a story about muslims? does this story compare to the 'bacha boys'? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezaz rass, this is so rigamarole...i can only flip my lashes and move on
I may be wrong but I would think that posting this story has the same motive as posting one about Muslims. The difference, however, is this thread is grossly missing the kind of ridicule and insults that usually grace ths ones about Muslims. And some of those 'concerned citizens' do a horrible job in masking their motive.
Maybe if you didn't get worked up everytime you see a topic about Muslims, then things would not have to get to the point where there is ridicule and insults...
The insults preceed their response. Perhaps you are comfortable in letting that kind of hatred go unaddressed abd while it may make sense at some point one has to accept that the hadred is too great to leave alone. If people did not address the killing of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman would have gone about his business scotch free.
Allyu saying this is not a worthy piece of information to post.?
I thought women wanted their plight to be known as the article suggests.
Or should we sweep it under the rug and pretend it don't happen?
Or is it a malicious lie perpetuated by evil western media to malign the good name of the noble Indian woman?
Former Member
You're losing your marbles bring travon Martin into this
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
Allyu saying this is not a worthy piece of information to post.? I thought women wanted their plight to be known as the article suggests. Or should we sweep it under the rug and pretend it don't happen? Or is it a malicious lie perpetuated by evil western media to malign the good name of the noble Indian woman?
actually, this has turned into a discussion about Muslims...why Muslims like hijack other topics and make it about them?
They want to take over the world since they got in the Whitehouse
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
You're losing your marbles bring travon Martin into this
It is a fair comparison. If there is ever anything that I need to loose is friends because I have way too many and not enough time for them.
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
The point I was making was that this thread would have taken off like a rocket if it was a Muslim story.
Ksaz, in hindsight, this thread would have taken off also had it been a shorter article.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Miraver:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
The point I was making was that this thread would have taken off like a rocket if it was a Muslim story.
Ksaz, in hindsight, this thread would have taken off also had it been a shorter article.
Thanks for pointing this out Mira I would have never guessed that Guyanese shy away from reading lengthy articles.
Former Member
Ksaz, Guyanese peeps dus shy away a lot!
Former Member
TI started a thread that has nothing to do with Muslims, and the Muslims have made it about them...again
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
TI started a thread that has nothing to do with Muslims, and the Muslims have made it about them...again
Deciphering sure is a challenge to you. This particular story is not about Muslims and no Muslim has made it such. The argument is that while a derogatory comment was made on the one regarding the Muslim girl in Queens, no one seem to have a response to this story. Hopefully that English 101 helps you.
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by raymond:
TI started a thread that has nothing to do with Muslims, and the Muslims have made it about them...again
Deciphering sure is a challenge to you. This particular story is not about Muslims and no Muslim has made it such. The argument is that while a derogatory comment was made on the one regarding the Muslim girl in Queens, no one seem to have a response to this story. Hopefully that English 101 helps you.
derogatory comment? since when is a question a comment? Seems like you need to go back to first standard...like I said, you and a few others seems to want to make a mountain out of a molehill...which is par for the course when it comes to you
Former Member
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
Originally Posted by raymond:
TI started a thread that has nothing to do with Muslims, and the Muslims have made it about them...again
Deciphering sure is a challenge to you. This particular story is not about Muslims and no Muslim has made it such. The argument is that while a derogatory comment was made on the one regarding the Muslim girl in Queens, no one seem to have a response to this story. Hopefully that English 101 helps you.
derogatory comment? since when is a question a comment? Seems like you need to go back to first standard...like I said, you and a few others seems to want to make a mountain out of a molehill...which is par for the course when it comes to you
Unlike you who seem to be one willing to sell his concience for a few friends. I don't have that hang up. I am free to call a spade a spade.
Former Member
By the way, a question would look like "why are men and women sepatare in the mosque"? The comment after shows the thoughts of the poster but I don't expect you to recognize it because for the reason already suggested.
Former Member
And if you think that the hadred on GNI is a molehill, consider the often stated remark that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim". How do you feel about your friends thinking that you will only be good when you are dead. No matter how much you knock bottle with them you will never be able to remove that sentiment because it is well ingrained.
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
And if you think that the hadred on GNI is a molehill, consider the often stated remark that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim". How do you feel about your friends thinking that you will only be good when you are dead. No matter how much you knock bottle with them you will never be able to remove that sentiment because it is well ingrained.
give it a rest...we all die eventually...who cares what people on GNi think? Maybe you go to bed with them on your mind...but this is just kicks for me...people can cuss Islam or Hinduism or Cristianity here....I really don't care to stand up for any religion here...I am not in a position to do so, maybe you are...so good luck!
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
Allyu saying this is not a worthy piece of information to post.? I thought women wanted their plight to be known as the article suggests. Or should we sweep it under the rug and pretend it don't happen? Or is it a malicious lie perpetuated by evil western media to malign the good name of the noble Indian woman?
It is absolutely a social abomination that is deserving of the widest media coverage & exposure and should be unequivocally condemned by all of society without making it into an 'us vs them' issue. Evil and degenerative practices knows no ethnic or religious barriers and only bigots and fools would attempt such distinctions.
Getting back on topic, these so called religious & community leaders who promote and perpetuate such degrading practices, deserve castration and jail for life.
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
I never knew about this practice. I don't think it is prevalent but still worrisome. Time men stopped taking advantage over women.
Abuse of women by men will cease when woman cease encouraging it. Women abuse women more than men do, remember this behavior is learned . From Religion to customs, traditions etc the abuse and put down of women is horrendous and most men who speak out against it are hypocrits because they treat their own wives and daughters like Chattel .
Former Member
Originally Posted by TI:
Allyu saying this is not a worthy piece of information to post.? I thought women wanted their plight to be known as the article suggests. Or should we sweep it under the rug and pretend it don't happen? Or is it a malicious lie perpetuated by evil western media to malign the good name of the noble Indian woman?
India is a cesspool of ignorance and hypocrisy as most indian people are I have come to know - from India to Guyana to everywhere in the world - They have double standards .
Former Member
Originally Posted by ksazma:
And if you think that the hadred on GNI is a molehill, consider the often stated remark that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim".
A few negative comments/posters doesn't make all of GNI..........
Former Member
Originally Posted by chameli:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
[], consider the often stated remark that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim". [].
Ksaz, cyant say that i have heard that phrase referred to muslims until this moment reading it on gni...
Actually Chami, it is on GNI that I first heard it. And it has been used in different ways at different times.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Riya:
Originally Posted by ksazma:
And if you think that the hadred on GNI is a molehill, consider the often stated remark that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim".
A few negative comments/posters doesn't make all of GNI..........
Agreed. But when those posters are not addressed/corrected as I have here by you , then it does open up other questions as to why.
Former Member
Originally Posted by chameli:
Originally Posted by TI:
finally, i read the whole article...it Reminds me of those who take young boy child to make into lovers...respected men of the community...make dancing boy out of a poor young man and use him for sex then when he grows up, he leaves, marries and takes a young boy to be his sex slave and the cycle continues / in this story, sadly it is young girl child who never gets out / the cycle continues
That is why the cycle continues. Because people don't try to correct it. It is abhorrent that those old men would abuse these little boys and do so under the cover of religion and those 'learned' peole in the community just turn look the other way.
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