Banna, doant come hay wid dis shit claiming this is policy based on one isolated incident. How many blacks died in similiar manner over the years? We don't know. It could be poor training techniques, accidents, or just that the GDF training is fcked up like most things in Guyana.

Guh find the article whey yuh former president RUMOTAR seh is not in indians best interest to be in the armed forces. And he was the de facto indian leader. Tek up yuh shit wid he, not black man.

Let me offer you the experience of my uncle who joined the GDF in the 70s and served for over 10 years and only achieved the high and august rank of Corporal.

At recruitment, he was taller, more well built/totally solid than all others of any race present, had more subjects etc. and was passed over for induction. He was just too not Black enough. A Black GDF Captain by happenstance walked by and noticed that he was his Indo friend's son and reversed the discrimination on the spot. So he got in despite discrimination.

During training, the other recruits were instructed on "Black power" and he was asked such quaint questions as "suh yuh come fuh laan how fuh kill Blackman?"

And in road marches, he had to march for miles. Some Black recruits took taxis.

And then when he's graduated, he goes to have a beer with his friends and fellow squaddies. The Black Soldiers come and pull rank on them in the sum shop and send them to perform some mindless duty while they stay and drink their still full bottles of beer.

And then he gets passed over for promotion ridiculously until towards the end when he was granted "Corporal."

My uncle regardless of the many many unnecessary racial insults and petty acts of racial retribution meted out to him did his job and enjoyed the life of Soldiering and enjoyed to comraderie of his fellow Soldiers.

This was the typical Indo experience of the GDF. The Joe Singhs of the world are the exception to the rule.

And FYI, the original forces meant to constitute the new Guyanese Army were racially balanced. Burnham disbanded them in favor of an overwhelmingly Black force to replace the British. He did so for obvious political reasons. And the GDF now has an institutional culture that is more or less a Black fraternity with room only for a handful of Indos, usually the sons of some select Indo families who pass the test.

That's a caricature certain section of the Afro population like to draw.  Some to hold the notion that Indians have taken/debased Afro rights (Ask Caribj).  As well noted in the recent election, the PNC faction clebrated "taking the nation back", and emancipation day, etc.  This is synonymous with freedom from an occupying power.  I was reading another site where one Afro PNC told a PPP Indo, they can take their 49% and leave the country and all problems will be over.

I had wrote a piece called "behind the Indian Psyche" and looking at events like this (May 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV_KRdvYER8 ) many Indians feel like unwelcome refugees and leave.  So one can understand some Indians surrendering to the thought of an independent homeland.  I don't think its a deep-sentiment but more a protest sentiment.

Itaname..you are on a roll today bhai.

Suh yuh come wid anodda anecdotal story, dis time from de 70's. Certainly in this land where  alyuh is such VICTIMS there must be some sort of a study proving institutionalized racism in the armed forces eh? How about yuh buddy Dev? he gat studies fuh everything including genocide. BUT let's say for argument's sake I agree wid yuh. What happen from 1992 to now eh?

The INDIAN admin wanted NOTHING to do with altering the composition of the armed forces and said so. Tek it up with them. And I do not care if dem wasn't Indian enuff fuh you. Yuh jus get done telling me dat alyuh only care for the country when indians are in charge so yuh telling the wrong man about yuh displeasure wid de PPP, arite?

I got to tek meh lil grandson fuh a walk and buy he 2 fudge.

teach the Granson the Guyanese way, tief it.

Lots of contradictions within your post but let me focus on the bolded part. Suh yuh sehing some Indians "surrender" and willing to leave fuh they own nation. In protest apparently. Willing to give everything up instead of defending their position. Two thoughts come to mind.

a) Either they are cowards OR

b) They feel in leaving for their own "land" they inflict the most pain on black man.

I believe it is the latter. This "protest sentiment" crowd that you speak of is the very same bunch that seh black man can't survive without them. Without Indians we would starve. Without indians we would be naked and eating each other. Yes Baseman, I've heard it all from that crowd. Right hay Skeldon Ape pulled that shit, telling me "soon yuh gon eat shit". And the crowd is not as small as yuh seh.

But isn't it ironic that indians running to barbados, grenada, jamaica, the small islands etc, all countries run by BLACK MAN where they live in peace and prosper. But they RACIST mindset will never get the irony of it.

A comparative examination of the attitude towards ethnic vs. national identities among Indo and Afro Guyanese will raise answers and solutions to the issue of interethnic distrust.

And here is an example of the differences between Indians and Africans.  Africans didn't wait until 1966 to have a "Guyanese" identity. 

It is not clear whether even in 2015 whether large numbers of Indians still see Guyanese only in terms of a national flag.

An African is a Guyanese who happens to be black.  An Indian is an Indian who happened to be born in Guyana, or having parents who were.

And this is it.  To Shaitaan being Guyanese was tied to whether one supported Burnham or not, so it was OK to refuse to acknowledge one's Guyanese identity by refusing singing the national anthem.  In fact I was shocked to learn that prior to 1992 large numbers of Indians DID NOT EVEN KNOW the national anthem, and did not see that it had any relevance to them.

They will then jump and down and scream at the fact that most of the national symbols were either developed by, or agreed to by people who happened to be Afro Guyanese.  The flag, the national anthem and virtually all of our patriotic songs, our folklore and folk songs.  I remember in 1992 one of them ranted that the Guyana flag was an "African rag," pointing out the colors.  Because Afro Guyanese didn't have to wait until May 26, 1966.  Their passports said that they were British, but their identity was that of a GUYANESE!

If Indo Guyanese don't wish to participate in the Guyanese nation, the rest of us will remain proud Guyanese, regardless as to whether the PPP or the PNC is in power.

In 2015 the PPP waged a campaign based on the fact that a Guyanese of Indian ancestry claimed that his NATIONAL identity was more import than his ethnic identity as an Indian.  The PPP gained 30k votes in coastal rural areas by making Moses into a race traitor for daring to claim that his GUYANESE identity was more important than his INDIAN!

So let people NOT be hypocritical and deny the fact that the vast majority of Indo Guyanese, do not strongly identify as Guyanese, and remain Indians FIRST and foremost! May 11th proved this!

Irrelevant because October 1992 didn't bring out thousands of Indians willing to serve in the armed forces.  There was no PNC to harass Indian recruits and there was the PPP to ensure that those who signed up for service would have been properly treated.  Yet after 23 years of PPP rule the GDF and the GPF remain what they were in 1980 in their ethnic composition.

Let me be honest with you.  There is no money in being in the GDF or the GPF, so even after the PNC lost power in 1992 Indians still didn't want to serve.  How many Indians volunteer to work in civic organizations not tied to religion or business.  This is why civic society in Guyana remains dominated by Africans. 

The notion of service without monetary reward is alien to Indians, unless it is within a religious context.  Be honest and admit this.

Two things.

1.  They mainly serve in occupations scorned by the locals, or degrade themselves by accepting pay less than what locals would.

2.  They can readily be found in domestic or garden boy jobs, serving middle class blacks.

Funny that with all this, many still carry racist notions of blacks similar to that espoused by Dylan Roof.

there are many racist Indos indeed but rest assured that no one race in Gy has the franchise on racism and I am sure there are as many Black racists in Gy as there are Brown racists.

What is sad is to see the daily back and forth on here which is maybe a microcosm of what is going on in Gy and if, indeed, that is the case then the race issue in Gy will never be resolved. 

I said it before and I will say it again, the only hope for Gy is in the hands of those under 35. The old guard will practice more of the same and the fighting between the two main races will carry on with just a bit of cross over into each camp.

Dylann Roof was infected with White racism and "fineman" was infected with Black racism.  And they both did just about the same.

yeah bai . . . and which disease infectd RAJA, his hit men and his enablers when dey plotted the murders of Sash Sawh & family and other false flag Indo massacres?

Guyanese are racists wherever dey live. Exile is good place for them.

Good the hear the people of North West rejecting Muduro.

Read this - excellent post

http://caracaschronicles.com/2015/06/12/economic-war/

Economic war (a real one)

 Indians had 23 years to learn how to be Guyanese.  The remained Indians born in Guyana, with scant connection to other ethnic groups, and not participating in a unifying notion of what being Guyanese is.  In fact Indians are very hostile to that concept.  To most Guyana is a place of birth, and citizenship, NOTHING MORE!

Here is the difference.  Between 1966 and 1992 a racist African regime excluded Indians. They ran around describing themselves as Indians on a sojourn to the USA, with a Guyana stop over.  Guyana was incidental to their identity.

Then in 2015 Moses is ridiculed and lambasted because he said that being Guyanese is more important to claiming an Indian ethnicity.  The PPP pulled out legions of Indians enraged at this TRAITOR.  How dare Moses claim that he is a Guyanese of Indian descent, and not describe himself as INDIAN first and foremost!

Blacks between 1992 and 2015 were excluded by an Indian regime.  Did they describe themselves as Africans on a sojourn to the USA with a Guyana stop.  NO. 

To most Afro Guyanese their identity is ROOTED in being GUYANESE, regardless as to whether the government of the day is one of their chosing, or if the "enemy" is in power.

THIS is why most symbols of Guyanese identity are connected to Afro Guyanese.  Because being GUYANESE is all they know how to be.  Others thought they were INDIAN, until they met the REAL INDIANS, who ignore them!  They did NOT invest in being Guyanese.

Carib, I am offended.

I am a Guyanese who happens to be Indian. Me navel string bury in Lot 37, Canal #2 Polder, next to a pillar of my grandfather's big house.

Thanks to telling us this, but this we already know.  Its a standard PPP meeting.  In fact all of this rant is about the fact that "ahbe pan tap, black man time done, PNC cyant win any election", now looks very foolish.

Suddenly Indian elites cannot just do what they wish in Guyana, and force blacks to just accept it.  They must exist within the context of a multi racial society, where they are no longer all powerful.

Now resume your rant that all blacks want to do is to kill Indians and drench their yards with Indo blood.  And that breakfast meetings are held to plot rapes and murders of Indians.  At least that's what YOU PPP folks told illiterate Indians a few months ago.

The last election was about whether Moses should have claimed his ethnic identity as an Indian as being more important than his Guyanese nationality.

Well we all know the results of that by the fact that the PPP INCREASED its votes, so I guess the question is answered.

Yes and in fact this is exactly the point that we are making.  Many Indians self segregate themselves from other Guyanese, have no wish to engage with them, want to live in self induced exile, and then wonder why others don't trust them.

Such attitudes NEVER work in a multi ethnic society.  Continue to being INDIAN, while the rest of us are being GUYANESE.  While we sing Guyanese folk songs at national events, you all will sing Bollywood FROM INDIA.

And I think they call you a neemakaram for having those attitudes.  The PPP almost won by waging that war.

Chap mek u mind up. The other day, u claimed that Blacks doan live among Indoes. And they doan wannt to.

Jagdeo and Ramotar had no interest in rocking the boat in the GDF.  All they did was to show up for the ole years nite party and wine down.  One of them was also out looking for a stud for the nite.

Indians are always interested in the Army at least at the Officer level.  I was until I was booted out at the interview.  The ones that did get pass the interview were put under tremendous pressure to fail so they could be kicked out for “weakness.”  It was Burnham would created the fallacy that Indians were weak.  The best long distance runners in Guyana were always Indians.  Ask them in Kimbia in around 1982-83 who bent the weight lifiting bar at the sergeant quarters…it was an Indian name Rafeek, my friend, I was there.  Everyone was astonished when it happened.  Some of the best drill sergeants in National Service were Indians…Sargent Dipoo and Sargent Tilku comes to mind.

If Indians are assured that they will be treated fairly in the GDF more will join.  They should have Indian observers during training.

' Some of the best drill sergeants in National Service were Indians'

Well what do you know.....very interesting indeed.  But don't let uncle Rama hear you . according to him, these drill sergeants were big strong black men with a Schindler's list of indo women not to save, but to brutalize and rape nightly.

Do Indians want to deal with blacks.  NO.  So what is your rant all about?

Now resume singing your Bollywood.

If Indians really wanted to be in the GDF or the GPF they would have insisted that the PPP ensure that it was fair.

I have to let you know that Burnham died in 1985.  An Indian party ran Guyana between 1992 and 2015 and appointed people to head the GDF and the GPF, over the objections of many who were passed over.

Your excuses for non involvement by Indians is quite silly.  Its like me blaming the PPP for the fact that blacks don't want to grow rice in large numbers.

Now I suggest that the coalition gov't appoints blacks to observe Indian owned companies to see that the racism against blacks ceases. Because we can both engage in this behavior if you wish.

Bai, I don't think it got anything to do with that or the physical abilities or lack thereof of Indians in Guyana. They just not interested in army wuk because many if not most tend to be entrepreneurial. Even if its driving a hire car or working a fruit stand, it is their business and that's what drives them. That has been the history.

The General Shittys of the world have quite a task on their hands to convince these indian folks to give up their entrepeneurial drive to join the army. Much easier for him to scream that black man is to blame.

Yes.  He blames blacks,  Drags up anecdotes from 40 years ago.  Pretends as if Jagdeo was powerless.

FACT. Even the militias controlled by Indians consist mainly of blacks.

I think it was meh friend General Shitty who posted an article a while back citing RUMOTAR as saying he had no interest in balancing the armed forces, so I don't know where Shitty's angst is coming from.

He deflects racist attitudes of Indians by claiming that under PPP rule Guyana was controlled by the PNC and blacks.  It is the PNC which prevented Indians from joining, not only in 1973 (when he would have had a valid claim), but in 2006 when Jagdeo was at the peak of his ferocity.

True, but when you see some Indians who opted for "business" and failed vs the army, you would conclude they were better off in the army.   However, I believe if the army was a means to an end, a place where (say after 5 years) you would have acquired valuable marketable skills, and exit with a type of "GI bill/veteran's benefits", you may have seen more Indians take up the offer.  I think though regardless, the GDF would have attracted a majority Afro into its ranks.

We must accept, different ethnic groups are attracted to different professions and we should let that be.  It's not a negative as long as dominance of any sector is not exploited to the detriment of others.  Everyone has a role to play and value to bring and that should be respected.

I see we managed to get in the day's bashing of Indos quota. Not sure if there's anything useful I can contribute.

Regarding Indos and the GDF, allow me to gratuitously quote mine noted Guyanese Afrocentrist Dr. Van Sertima who puts my sentiments about an ethnically/racially balanced Guyanese military thusly: "If its not that important as you say, then why do you care so much?"

NO BLACK MAN HERE CARES!!!! VVP and Baseman seem to get what we're saying and have reasonable responses. You are the one beating a dead horse and the wrong one at that - black man. You and Roar guh beat aluh indians fuh join.

And how the hell does saying indians may be more entrepreneurial inclined qualify as "indo bashing" eh? Yuh talking shit again.

We need the historical numbers to get a better sense of Indians willingness to join the army.  From what I understand pre Burnham, Indians used to have higher numbers in the army.  Of the two major incursions we had (New River and Rupununi Uprising) Indians played major roles in defeating the enemy. 

It was Burnham who created the lie that Indians were weak and cannot serve well in the army because  he wanted the army to be dominated by Africans.  However, Burnham did admire and like Joe Singh and maybe others.  Burnham was only interested in protecting his own dictatorship.  Like Jagdeo, Burnham only cared about himself...Guyanese and Guyana took second place.

The entire PPP leadership post 1992 were weak and did not want to rock the boat in the GDF.  President Granger is not Burnham and he should encourage Indians to join the army.  Indians are no lesser patriots that Africans so they should be encouraged to serve in the army.

See the pictures in the link below that I got from Mr. Griffith for Indians in the army.

http://www.xgdf.com/New%20River%20operation.pdf

Granger needs to replace to the traditional PNC soup pots with huge cauldrons. Hope they can afford the ingredients for the soups. We have some real thirsty Indos on GNI whose belly got no bottom when it comes to soups. 

Jalil alone can eat wan whole sheep by heself. Chef du Cuisine Granger need to prepare well fuh dem bais Commodities Ministers and budding tycoons

It has never been the position of the colonial power to encourage indians to join the security forces. The Volunteer force was culled from the african community to keep Indians in check. Also, Indians in general had a cultural reluctance to join the security forces and the requirements discouraged them from joining.

Our present dilemma has to transcend that legacy. The PPP had 2 and a half decades to facilitate some reform to the system and were too lazy to do  it. The security forces has to be seen as worthy professions but presently it is far from that. It has to be provided with institutional lures where people join up because they see worth in it.