When it comes to actually acknowledging people of other faiths, cultures and places, the Qur'an is quite different from the Bible. The Qur'an acknowledges that people from other parts of the world were also guided by God to teach their communities whereas the Bible only acknowledges the people of Israel. Based on the message of the Bible, only those people are mentioned or given the favors of God even though some of them demonstrated some very lowly practices like Samson going to Gaza, saw a prostitute and went into her right there on the roadside. Or Judah screwing his own daughter in law thinking that she was a prostitute. Or even Rueben screwing his step mother on the rooftop. And those are not the only cases of this kind of behavior. If you read the Bible, you would hardly know that there is any place outside of Judea & Samaria.

ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil). Qur'an - 2:2 (Picktall)

The Unconditional Love of God

If the Heavenly Father loves us so unconditionally, why does He allow more than half of the world's population to live in abject poverty and misery. Nothing is given. Everything is earned and if there is truly a God, He or She prove that every day so this nonsense about unconditional love is like a ponzie scheme. Anything worth having is worth striving for and if heaven is so special you shouldn't get it if you are lazy and irresponsible.

Because the Father loves us so unconditionally, He built this wonderful sandbox for about three quarters of all of His children whom He has breathed life into.

Bro. Keith will note that I actually post thoughts whereas he generally post seasons. Pure evidence of the deceptive methods of the preacher. And this is the case with preachers of all religions so I am not singling out Christian preachers.

ksazma posted:

When it comes to actually acknowledging people of other faiths, cultures and places, the Qur'an is quite different from the Bible. The Qur'an acknowledges that people from other parts of the world were also guided by God to teach their communities whereas the Bible only acknowledges the people of Israel. Based on the message of the Bible, only those people are mentioned or given the favors of God even though some of them demonstrated some very lowly practices like Samson going to Gaza, saw a prostitute and went into her right there on the roadside. Or Judah screwing his own daughter in law thinking that she was a prostitute. Or even Rueben screwing his step mother on the rooftop. And those are not the only cases of this kind of behavior. If you read the Bible, you would hardly know that there is any place outside of Judea & Samaria.

Once again, Entrapment, Entrapment, Entrapment. I doan expect u to give up on that thought, but I hope somehow good reasoning prevail. Mohammad was a jewish believer, the only man of Arabic people who believed in a monolithic God, and about 600 years after Christ proclaimed the Father to the world. All around the Globe the Spirit was revealed. But not Arabia. The God of the Christ sent the Arabians a special messenger(not a prophet only a messenger like Jonah) to tell them of Christ.

I hope u get wan revealation on dis prostitute thing. Seeing yuh believe in Mahammad, I hope he has the power of the Comforter and comfort you.

If you fail to be comforted, then ask Christ, He can do all things in the Father.

Happy Father's day.

seignet posted:

ksazma posted:

When it comes to actually acknowledging people of other faiths, cultures and places, the Qur'an is quite different from the Bible. The Qur'an acknowledges that people from other parts of the world were also guided by God to teach their communities whereas the Bible only acknowledges the people of Israel. Based on the message of the Bible, only those people are mentioned or given the favors of God even though some of them demonstrated some very lowly practices like Samson going to Gaza, saw a prostitute and went into her right there on the roadside. Or Judah screwing his own daughter in law thinking that she was a prostitute. Or even Rueben screwing his step mother on the rooftop. And those are not the only cases of this kind of behavior. If you read the Bible, you would hardly know that there is any place outside of Judea & Samaria.

Once again, Entrapment, Entrapment, Entrapment. I doan expect u to give up on that thought, but I hope somehow good reasoning prevail. Mohammad was a jewish believer, the only man of Arabic people who believed in a monolithic God, and about 600 years after Christ proclaimed the Father to the world. All around the Globe the Spirit was revealed. But not Arabia. The God of the Christ sent the Arabians a special messenger(not a prophet only a messenger like Jonah) to tell them of Christ.

 

Bai Siggy, perhaps this will clear your mind about if Muhammad was a messenger or a prophet. Guess what? He was both as stated in this Qur'anic passage.

مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمْ وَلَكِن رَّسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

And this is what Muhammad said of Jesus

إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُون

The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً

O followers S of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, and do not say of God anything but the truth. Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God.

And Happy Fathers Day to you also.

The Testing of Our Commitment

Speaking of Abraham, we learned that when he was small, he was left in charged of guarding his fathet's idols. But rather than guard them, he destroyed them except for the biggest one. When the people returned, they asked him what happened. Pointing to the only remaining statue, he replied, "ask him". They retorted. That statue can't talk. To this Abraham responded, "I wish your ears would hear what your mouth is saying". 

Lots of people in their quest to find God assume that someone or something is God. No fault in that as the objective is noble. The fault is when one has clear signs that their assumption is misplaced but still take no heed. Christians take pleasure in labeling other religions as idolatry or cults while they completely ignore that, because of Paul's mischief, their religion is no different from idolatry or cult.

Any comments on that wonderful sandbox that the unconditionally loving Father created?

Work Is a Ministry

So still no comment on that wonderful sandbox that our unconditionally loving Father made for us.

الرَّحْمَنُ

عَلَّمَ الْقُرْآنَ

THE MOST GRACIOUS. Has imparted this Qur’an [unto man].

The Keys to Success

ksazma posted:

Unfortunately Bro. Keith seems to not know why the unconditionally loving Father made that sandbox for his children or he is just avoiding it because he knows that it contradicts his entrapping sermon that the Father loves us unconditionally.

Like in all the other situations, eventually I will have to clarify why God made that sandbox and the true ways of God. Those answers cannot be found in the Bible because the Bible is flawed. Especially the New Testament.

Ok Bro. Keith. I give up. Since you have the answer, please explain to me the Father's unconditional love as it relates to that wonderful sandbox called hell.

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

Unfortunately Bro. Keith seems to not know why the unconditionally loving Father made that sandbox for his children or he is just avoiding it because he knows that it contradicts his entrapping sermon that the Father loves us unconditionally.

 

 

Most of us know about God, but that is quite different from knowing God.

The Reverend Jimmy Swaggart used to say the same thing. In fact, he used to claim he had a direct line to God. So what went wrong?

By the way, you seem a bit agitated. Was that a sign that you felt cornered? Don't be too hard on yourself. It is not your fault that the teachings are inadequate.

The Reasons We Serve

Keith posted:

 

We need to know only that God is pleased and promises to reward those who serve Him (Heb. 11:6).

If God promises to reward those who serve Him, what does He do with those who don't serve Him? And how does His response to each of them fit into His unconditional love mantra?

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

Unfortunately Bro. Keith seems to not know why the unconditionally loving Father made that sandbox for his children or he is just avoiding it because he knows that it contradicts his entrapping sermon that the Father loves us unconditionally.

 

 

Most of us know about God, but that is quite different from knowing God.

The Reverend Jimmy Swaggart used to say the same thing. In fact, he used to claim he had a direct line to God. So what went wrong?

By the way, you seem a bit agitated. Was that a sign that you felt cornered? Don't be too hard on yourself. It is not your fault that the teachings are inadequate.

What give you the impression that I'm agitated? The only thing that is troubling is ignorance which is on display daily.

I notice the highest and greatest reward for Muslim men is to go to heaven where he will have 72 houris at his sexual disposal and whim. I wonder what Muslim women get as their great reward?  One would only speculate the woman reward may be to be rid of Muslim men . The description of heaven is exactly what a 7th century Arab male would find appealing in the physical sense only: 80,000 servants, 72 beautiful sex slaves, wine and booze, fruit, shade, fine clothing and jewelry, carpets made of silk, music etc. In fact I wonder if Hugh Hefner is in fact a secret Muslim, given the fact that he is living now on earth, like Muslim hope to live like when they get to heaven. It is puzzling why Muslims forbid wine, booze and alcoholic drinks now, but they will be permitted in heaven.

On a serious note tell me, in your opinion what will the God of Islam do with the wicked? What will he do with Azazel aka Iblis? Is there a final judgement?

Us Christians there is a final judgement and the first thing to understand about the final judgment is that it cannot be avoided. Regardless of how we may choose to interpret prophecy on the end times, we are told that "it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). We all have a divine appointment with our Creator. The apostle John recorded some details of the final judgment:

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire" (Revelation 20:11-15).

This passage introduces to us the final judgment the end of human history and the beginning of the eternal state. We can be sure of this: no mistakes will be made in our hearings because we will be judged by a perfect God (Matthew 5:48; 1 John 1:5). This will manifest itself in many undeniable proofs. First, God will be perfectly just and fair (Acts 10:34; Galatians 3:28). Second, God cannot be deceived (Galatians 6:7). Third, God cannot be swayed by any prejudices, excuses or lies (Luke 14:16-24).

As God the Son, Jesus Christ will be the judge (John 5:22). All unbelievers will be judged by Christ at the "great white throne," and they will be punished according to the works they have done. The Bible is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves (Romans 2:5) and that God will "give to each person according to what he has done” (Romans 2:6). (Believers will also be judged, at a different judgment called the "judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10), but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to us and our names are written in the Book of Life, we will be rewarded, not punished, according to our deeds.) At the final judgment the fate of the unsaved will be in the hands of the omniscient God who will judge everyone according to his soul’s condition.

For now, our fate is in our own hands. The end of our soul’s journey will be either in an eternal heaven or in an eternal hell (Matthew 25:46). We must choose where we will be by accepting or rejecting the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf, and we must make that choice before our physical lives on this earth come to an end. After death, there is no longer a choice, and our fate is to stand before the throne of God, where everything will be open and naked before Him (Hebrews 4:13). Romans 2:6 declares that God "will give to each person according to what he has done."

Is there 72 virgins awaiting us, absolutely NOT! In Luke 23:43, Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise." The word Jesus used for "paradise" is paradeisos which means "a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, paradise)".

We are unable to fully serve God in this life due to sin, but in heaven "every curse will no longer be" (Revelation 22:3). We will not be under the curse of sin any longer, so everything we do will be worship in heaven. We will never be motivated by anything other than our love for God. Everything we do will be out of our love for God, untainted by our sin nature.

God's Word says we won't have to be in His paradise alone. "I shall fully know even as I also am fully known" (1 Corinthians 13:12). This would seem to indicate that we will not only know our friends and family, we will "fully know" them. In other words, there is no need for secrets in heaven. There is nothing to be ashamed of. There is nothing to hide. We will have eternity to interact with "a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues" (Revelation 7:9). No wonder heaven will be a place of infinite learning. Just getting to know everyone will take eternity!

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

Unfortunately Bro. Keith seems to not know why the unconditionally loving Father made that sandbox for his children or he is just avoiding it because he knows that it contradicts his entrapping sermon that the Father loves us unconditionally.

 

 

Most of us know about God, but that is quite different from knowing God.

The Reverend Jimmy Swaggart used to say the same thing. In fact, he used to claim he had a direct line to God. So what went wrong?

By the way, you seem a bit agitated. Was that a sign that you felt cornered? Don't be too hard on yourself. It is not your fault that the teachings are inadequate.

What give you the impression that I'm agitated? The only thing that is troubling is ignorance which is on display daily.

I notice the highest and greatest reward for Muslim men is to go to heaven where he will have 72 houris at his sexual disposal and whim. I wonder what Muslim women get as their great reward?  One would only speculate the woman reward may be to be rid of Muslim men . The description of heaven is exactly what a 7th century Arab male would find appealing in the physical sense only: 80,000 servants, 72 beautiful sex slaves, wine and booze, fruit, shade, fine clothing and jewelry, carpets made of silk, music etc. In fact I wonder if Hugh Hefner is in fact a secret Muslim, given the fact that he is living now on earth, like Muslim hope to live like when they get to heaven. It is puzzling why Muslims forbid wine, booze and alcoholic drinks now, but they will be permitted in heaven.

On a serious note tell me, in your opinion what will the God of Islam do with the wicked? What will he do with Azazel aka Iblis? Is there a final judgement?

I will eventually explain God's ways after you have sufficient time to explain how the Father's unconstitutional love relate to Him making that wonderful sandbox He call hell.

For the things you posted above, similar to how I show the Biblical passages that I comment on, please show the Qur'anic passage that says that Muslim men will get 72 virgins when they go to heaven.

Take your time but don't take forever.

Why is there going to be a final judgment if God's love is unconditional? Who and what is He judging and why?

All little on the unconditional love which I know is hard for you to understand. God’s love, as described in the Bible, is clearly unconditional in that His love is expressed toward the objects of His love that is, His people despite their disposition toward Him. In other words, God loves because it His nature to love (1 John 4:8), and that love moves Him toward benevolent action. The unconditional nature of God’s love is most clearly seen in the gospel. The gospel message is basically a story of divine rescue. As God considers the plight of His rebellious people, He determines to save them from their sin, and this determination is based on His love (Ephesians 1:4-5). Listen to the Apostle Paul’s words from his letter to the Romans:

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:6-8).

Now to answer the question you keep bring up the question: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?...maybe not in those exact words but that's exactly what you are hinting at. Well, there are several answers to that.

One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will. That's the way He made us after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.

In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn’t send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn’t send His children to Hell because when we’re His children, we’re in the family of God. We’re born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We’re not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder and homosexuality; and we have them all cataloged and classified but there isn't one of them or even put them all together in one big hunk that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks" or, "because they believe not on me"?
 
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.

You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!

God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

ksazma posted:

I will eventually explain God's ways after you have sufficient time to explain how the Father's unconstitutional love relate to Him making that wonderful sandbox He call hell.

For the things you posted above, similar to how I show the Biblical passages that I comment on, please show the Qur'anic passage that says that Muslim men will get 72 virgins when they go to heaven.

Take your time but don't take forever.

Ah did I misunderstand the translation, is it "raisins" and not 72 virgins, is this contradiction? hmm.

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

 

I will eventually explain God's ways after you have sufficient time to explain how the Father's unconstitutional love relate to Him making that wonderful sandbox He call hell.

For the things you posted above, similar to how I show the Biblical passages that I comment on, please show the Qur'anic passage that says that Muslim men will get 72 virgins when they go to heaven.

Take your time but don't take forever.

Ah did I misunderstand the translation, is it "raisins" and not 72 virgins, is this contradiction? hmm.

So I guess you didn't find that Qur'anic passage that says that Muslim men will get 72 virgins when they go to heaven right? Interestingly I am not surprised that you didn't have that passage to whip out when I asked for it. I figured already that you were just parroting what others say and too lazy to do your own research. That is deceitful for a person who claims to be religious. I on the other hand don't claim to be religious and in fact, there are countless statements from me that I am NOT religious. But what I do know is the matters that I comment on here. You unfortunately don't. My guess is that you are an overzealous person who is infatuated by religion and very gullible. Well, let me make it easy for you. There is no Qur'anic passage promising me 72 virgins when they get to heaven. There is no passage containing a passage for any raisin either so you should be careful where you graze since it seems that you can easily swallow up nonsense. You see I can show you Biblical passages where Jesus called people pigs, dogs and, swine, etc. Try doing that with the 72 virgins passage.

It is shameful for you that you wrote "ah did I misunderstood the translation" when clearly you haven't read that in the Qur'an much less misunderstood what you read.

Keith posted:

All little on the unconditional love which I know is hard for you to understand. God’s love, as described in the Bible, is clearly unconditional in that His love is expressed toward the objects of His love that is, His people despite their disposition toward Him. In other words, God loves because it His nature to love (1 John 4:8), and that love moves Him toward benevolent action. The unconditional nature of God’s love is most clearly seen in the gospel. The gospel message is basically a story of divine rescue. As God considers the plight of His rebellious people, He determines to save them from their sin, and this determination is based on His love (Ephesians 1:4-5). Listen to the Apostle Paul’s words from his letter to the Romans:

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:6-8).

Now to answer the question you keep bring up the question: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?...maybe not in those exact words but that's exactly what you are hinting at. Well, there are several answers to that.

One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will. That's the way He made us after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.

In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn’t send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn’t send His children to Hell because when we’re His children, we’re in the family of God. We’re born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We’re not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder and homosexuality; and we have them all cataloged and classified but there isn't one of them or even put them all together in one big hunk that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks" or, "because they believe not on me"?
 
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.

You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!

God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

Talk about whiplash. Nowadays they have a system called ponzie scheme.

Here is what unconditional means;

Whether it’s love, support, or surrender, if something’s unconditional it’s absolute and not subject to any special terms or conditions: it’ll happen no matter what else happens.

Breaking apart the word unconditional can help you remember its meaning. Combine the prefix un-, meaning “not,” with conditional, meaning "dependent on something else," and you get an adjective for something that holds true without any conditions attached. The unconditional forgiveness you promised your brother means you forgive him no matter what. You’re not attaching any requirements — like you’ll only forgive him if he’s nicer to you or pays you money. You just forgive him — it's absolute.

There is no such thing as unconditional love. That is a ponzie scheme that the church concocted. Jesus did not believe in an unconditional love. Heck, Jesus did not love unconditionally. He refused to mingle with people who were not Jewish. He even called them pigs and dogs. There is a greater meaning to God's ways but the answer is NOT in the Bible.

The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.

The answer is blowing in the wind.

In my humble opinion Cainsta, no one can really prove that God exists so when people say that it is a fact that God is this or God is that, they have to be on some strange hallucinations. I don't think that anything is wrong with people believing what they believe but they must understand that whatever they believe is no more than what they believe. No doubt people use their life experiences to assert their beliefs in God but there are others who may use the same experiences to have the opposite reaction. Take for instance, someone missed their flight and initially was upset about missing that flight. Then something happens and those on the flight perish. Chances are, the first reaction of the person missing the flight is "there is a God" suggesting that God saved them from that calamity, therefore insisting that God is good and loving or as Bro. Keith would say unconditional love. However, bro. Keith in his role as a preacher is going to run very far from explaining how that good God did not save those on the plane as He did that one person even though that person demonstrated terrible attitudes when first dealing with missing the flight. Preachers don't have the answer for that because whatever they say will jeopardize their church position and perhaps even its cash flows. President Obama downplayed the chances of Russian rigging last year's elections because he didn't want his actions or statements to influence the turnout. Politicians and preachers are two sides of the same pod. They care little for the truth.

I prefer to evaluate people's actions rather than their words because I am old enough to know that people can be very deceptive. I prefer to discuss the actual printed words than what people think they mean because there can be many takes on what people read. That is why o asked the brother to post the Qur'anic passage which he failed to do and through his failure he exposed his dishonesty. The bro may insist that I don't understand a passage but he cannot insist that I lied about it being in the book.

Anyone claiming to be religious but shows signs of dishonesty deserve being exposed.

The Motivational Power of Grace

So after several days the good brother still hasn't posted the Qur'anic passage regarding those 72 virgins. He said he may have misinterpreted what he read so at the least he should have had no difficulty posting the passage unless he never saw it and was just parroting stuff he has no knowledge of. It would be beneficial to him to just admit that he was not honest in his statement.

Just read Proverbs 22:15

"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of discipline will remove it far from him."

What utter nonsense is this?

The Privilege of Knowing God

ksazma posted:

So after several days the good brother still hasn't posted the Qur'anic passage regarding those 72 virgins. He said he may have misinterpreted what he read so at the least he should have had no difficulty posting the passage unless he never saw it and was just parroting stuff he has no knowledge of. It would be beneficial to him to just admit that he was not honest in his statement.

Have you look up the word raisins in the quran that what many in your religion substitute with word virgins. Read your quran it's there. Are you ready to received your raisins?

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

So after several days the good brother still hasn't posted the Qur'anic passage regarding those 72 virgins. He said he may have misinterpreted what he read so at the least he should have had no difficulty posting the passage unless he never saw it and was just parroting stuff he has no knowledge of. It would be beneficial to him to just admit that he was not honest in his statement.

Have you look up the word raisins in the quran that what many in your religion substitute with word virgins. Read your quran it's there. Are you ready to received your raisins?

Dude, I actually know what is in the Qur'an from cover to cover so you will need to come up with a different straw clutching approach. Since you know of this 72 raisins passage, do oblige us by posting it. Or you can do the honorable thing by admitting that you just tried to be deceitful when you stated that you read it in the Qur'an. 

cain posted:

Just read Proverbs 22:15

"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of discipline will remove it far from him."

What utter nonsense is this?

Not surprise you don't understand maybe you should let ksazma take a whack at it to see if he can. Here how about this one, a few verses back.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

So after several days the good brother still hasn't posted the Qur'anic passage regarding those 72 virgins. He said he may have misinterpreted what he read so at the least he should have had no difficulty posting the passage unless he never saw it and was just parroting stuff he has no knowledge of. It would be beneficial to him to just admit that he was not honest in his statement.

Have you look up the word raisins in the quran that what many in your religion substitute with word virgins. Read your quran it's there. Are you ready to received your raisins?

Dude, I actually know what is in the Qur'an from cover to cover so you will need to come up with a different straw clutching approach. Since you know of this 72 raisins passage, do oblige us by posting it. Or you can do the honorable thing by admitting that you just tried to be deceitful when you stated that you read it in the Qur'an. 

Karma is really something is it?

Yes. Karma is a bitch and when you lie and is caught you are forever remembered not for the lie but for being a liar. In the future, don't be so lazy. Ascertain what people claim before pretending you actually read it.