Obama at Prayer Event: Christians did terrible things, too

topic header says it all

u spend way too much time watching Fox News when not sniffing hate sites for 'material' to post here

trolling by any other name . . . the term of art is "low-rent"

LMAO

I thought you'd like it

The Protestants initially removed 7 books from the original Bible. Now it looks like Jeffrees is removing the other 39 books of the Old Testament since he doesn't see any violent passages in the Bible. Not to mention that as evil as these militants' actions are, they are not sanctioned and blessed by anyone as high ranking as a Pope as in the case of the Crusaders. And even if one was to remove the violence of the Old Testament, how can one ignore God's choice to hang a man on a cross until he dies as a method to rid the world of sins. A world that even those preachers who believe that including Jeffrees antagonize is filled with evil. Are they then admitting that that public hanging was in vain? All Obama is saying that while we all recognize the sick evil of ISIS and other Muslim militants, we should not fall into the trap in believing that we are so perfect and immune to committing similar evil acts. I am surprised that Michelle Malkin gets away with suggesting that him using the word 'we' suggests that he is actually a Muslim. Oh, what a display of brilliance by Michelle Malkin. No wonder she is an honorary guest on the fixed news network.

Where will Obama be when the Muslim enforced their belief that their religion will dominate the world. To achieve that Muslim prophecy it will take ISIS and the muslims in the West to achieve it.

I would not expect those who object to Islam to just lie down and let it overrun them. Obama is not white and do not share the sentiments of white American Christians or even Black American Christians.

The sad thing about all of this, is that white folks extended their kindness to the religion that will enslave them. 

Then again, White people never revered God. Suh the muslims will punish them. The devil against the devil. That is a war of catastrophe. 

Bai, what does Revelations say about which religion would take over the world? Whah shupidness yuh talkin again?

The takeaway from Obama's speech above and his recent Foreign Policy roll-out is about context. There is a hyperventilating crowd that rails about the world coming to an end because of some 30,000 shaitaans among 8 billion people on this planet. The context is that religious wars have wrought unspeakable horrors (yes, I know over 4 centuries ago, and yes the crusades were about defening against an order that was both state and religion; though the Inquisition and witch-burning still hold water) and ISIL must not drive the way we think about the world.

That's why Obama refuses to call this group ISLAMIC terrorists, but just "terrorists". They are not a State-organized like Hitler's Germany was or Christian States were around the time of the Crusades.

Obama knows that Russia's intentions in the Ukraine is not going to linger beyond that unless Agela Merkel and Francois Hollande want to make the red line Eastern Ukraine.

Obama knows China has no influence anywhere despite it being the 2nd largest economy - it's friends are all questionable characters like No. Korea, Venezuela, Iran, the Sudan, etc.

Obama knows the world needs Russia in stopping proliferation and that's why it's key with Iran along with sanctions and the great oil-price leverage.

So while some preach hyperbole (and there are some of our friends on GN I too), end-of-world scenario, the collapse of the West and Obama;s supposed weakness, the majority of us knows we've seen this before, dealt with it and survived to be better humans.

Radical Islam's Apologist-in-Chief, Slams Christians to Appease Muslim Sensibilities...........makes for good theater and a tool for grabbing attention., but alas, yaaawwwnnnnn........

All this time ah thought Shaiitan was smarter than this...

to Quote Obama

“How do we, as people of faith, reconcile these realities — the profound good, the strength, the tenacity, the compassion and love that can flow from all of our faiths, operating alongside those who seek to hijack religious for their own murderous ends? 

“Humanity has been grappling with these questions throughout human history.  And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.  In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”

Well, my friend Shaitaan has a narrative and he has a way with expressions. I know he means well for Muslims and like us all want these goons eradicated.

My Dear Favoured Mullah,

Thank You very much for trusting in my good intentions. I appreciate your intervention on my behalf. I don't hate Muslims at all. I don't hate anyone. My point is exactly as you so state that the goons need to be killed and the non-goon Muslims have to stop making these contorted attempts at deflecting the problem. This does no one any good. Let's define the problem. And work to fix it.

And many many devout Muslims share my position that Islam is at the core of Islamic Terrorism. ISIS goes to great lengths to mine the Quran, Sira, and Hadiths and the stories of early Muslim rulers for justification. I think many people are afraid to admit this because they think this some how demeans Islam or calls its veracity into question. I don't think Islam is this weak. I think Islam should be strong enough after 1400 years and 1 billion adherents to withstand this.

Christian was once a violent bloodthirsty anti-modern ideology. And somehow they survived the reformation without people soothing their feelings at every stage.

Ray,

It is perfectly legitimate to point out that the Crusades and the Inquisition were motivated by Christianity if you were a professor lecturing on medieval religiously-motivated violence.

This being said by the Head of State/Head of Government of the American People, an overwhelmingly Christian people, when the nation is at war with Islamic Terrorism right after they burned a prisoner of war, taped it, and made it viral is friggin tone deaf.

I'm no longer a practicing Christian but I can understand the outrage of Christians at having the Presidential professorial finger wagged at them for getting on their "high horse."

It is from this perspective that I found his statements unpalatable. There is no need to drag Christians, Buddhists, Amish, Jains, and Jews into the discussion just in some well-intentioned but stupid attempt to appear "fair and balanced."

P.S....I voted for Obama twice. And I would still hold my nose and vote for a third term for him inspite of his Islamic apologia.

You are asking the impossible...no religion thinks their belief system is at the core of evil

I have questions about Islamic orthodoxy too and I am not a fervent practicing Muslim. However I think it is a stretch to believe that mining Islamic sources (note I did not say Islamic Authority) to explain the barbaric acts of 30,000 people and conflate the billion or so Muslims from Indonesia, Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and elsewhere with medieval practices by some Arab societies and Central sian groups like the Taloiban. Not only is it a stretch, but it is a weak intellectual exercise and takes away from the serious business of eradicating this evil while helping their cause.

You and I will continue to disagree over Obama's speech as Islamo-apologia. You may have missed my point about him being Presidential and a leader by calming unfounded fears. To do so he contextualized the current acts in the name of religion with similar acts in history. That is not dragging other religions and finger-wagging from some high horse. That's smarts for you.

no religion thinks their belief system is at the core of evil.............a very intelligent observation.

I think you're right. Religion for many people is a deeply embedded part of the identity, mode of thinking, and world view of adherents. And no rational analysis is permitted particularly when they lead to unflattering conclusions. It's how fairly intelligent people in 2015 can still believe in talking snakes and magical apples. Cognitive dissonance.

Almost all religious adherents (Muslim, Jews, Christian whatever) seem to subscribe to the NoTrue Scotsman Fallacy. Every time a Muslim does something bad, other Muslims will simply say "he wasn't a true Muslim." When a Christian does something bad, Christians will say "he wasn't a true Christian." And the insanity goes on.

The fact is that the so-called Abrahamic religions are Stone Age/Brone Age ideologies based on Stone Age/Bronze Age cultures, so it isn't a surprise that they contain examples of violence and barbarism. And since then, people have drawn inspiration and justification from the same. Christianity and Judaism have progressed. Islam has not. Which is why terrorists seem to enjoy some significant recruitment success when they wave around the Quran while they behead infidels and apostates. I'm not so sure one can recruit Christians for a Crusade in 2015 into Jerusalem by waving around Pope Urban II's 11th century bull and the Bible.

That some of Islam's believers and it's left wing useful idiot apologists are blinded does not mean we too must be similarly blind. I refuse to join this mass delusion that says Islam does not inform Islamic Terrorism. For the same reasons I won't separate Christianity from the Crusades. It's dishonest at worst and hideously ignorant at best.

Pastor Hagee has been collecting money to re-migrate all American Jews to Israel because he (as well as many evangelicals) believe that once they are all there, half will die while the other will become Christians which will make it possible for Jesus to return. How does your statement above survive this belief and campaign?

I am very familiar with Pastor Hagee and his nonsense. No matter how outlandish his beliefs about Christian eschatology, Cornerstone Church simply fundraises to help Israel and provides political support to the Israel lobby in practical terms.

He's not recruiting Christian fighters for Jesus. You can compare his eschatology to Islamic eschatology and fears of Dajjal or whatever. That's where the comparison begins and ends.

Also, John Hagee and his brand of Christianity at the most causes Christians to refuse to bake cakes for gay people who wanna get married. He's not throwing them off tall buildings.

There is no comparison to be made. Our Christian nutcases are fat doughy buffoons who abide by the civil law and are just mean to gay people. Your Muslim nutcases put people in cages and set them on fire.

No. He is not recruiting Christians to fight for Jesus. He is instead recruiting Jews to go to Israel to die for Jesus (return).

aside from restating your favorite logical falacy hoping nobody will notice, you then 'justify' your nonsense by pointing [again, oh lord] to ISIS "mining" of Islamic writings as 'proof' of the religion's ownership of terror

bankrupt reasoning is only the leading edge of your shyte

The Reformation and Counter-Reformation represented a schism in Christianity over doctrine and practices of the Roman church, and was followed by a series of devastating wars  . . . nothing to do with reforming the core foundational texts and teachings of the faith or changing scripture . . . just fyi

I've said this before on this same forum - Islam needs its own "Reformation".

It is the same age as Christianity was when it had its reformation. However, this is somewhat of an oxymoron as Muslim scholars insists that Islam is universal and for all time, and that its scripture is the unadulterated word of God, so it does not need to change anything.

Meanwhile the same differences of interpretation that is the hallmark of other religions (and science too) is a continuing exercise of Islam.

So he encourages Jews to make aaliyah to Israel. So what? Are they going there to behead people and burn people alive?

And FYI, he's not "recruiting Jews to go to Israel to die for Jesus' return." You're either lying or woefully misinformed. I will assume the latter. According to his interpretation of Christian doctrine, the Jews must return to the Holy Land before Jesus (the Messiah) can return. He also believes that Jesus would condemn them to hell for not being Christians. In this whole fairy tale, he leaves any killing to Jesus.

I think I speak for all infidels when I say that we would be really ok with you Muslim nutcases being more like the Christian evangelicals nutcases. Instead of actually killing the infidels, you just content yourself to praying for Allah and Muhammad to kill us and burn us alive for eternity. I can personally live with that.

the comparison is not a good one . . . Islam already experienced a comparable doctrinal [Sunni/Shia] schism

embracing something similar to the Enlightenment which put reason, personal liberty and science at the center of civilization in the West is what's needed

this process is already underway . . . the world has shrunk too much

It is amazing how you think that only you know. While I have personally heard him make this statement on television during his fund raiser, I can only come up with this article for now. Too late on a Sunday night.

http://www.jewishpost.com/arch...st-Hated-Friend.html

"The most common argument that I hear against Christian  Zionists is that they only support Israel because of the “End of Days”  prophecy. The End of Days prophecy is a Christian belief that the Second Coming  of Christ can only happen once the Jews are in Israel. According to the  prediction, in the days before the Second Coming most Jews will either die or  convert to Christianity. Because of this, many Jews believe that Christian  support for Israel is just a round-about, extremely complicated way for  Christians to finish the job of the Inquisition."

Just after 9/11 when all the tv stations were having their parade of religious leaders to try to understand the attack, Jerry Faldwell mentioned the same idea. The Rabbi present there told him with a smile on his face that he was not comfortable with the idea that Jews are to be gathered in Israel so that half will be killed and the other half will become Christians. I am afraid that as knowledgeable as you are, you have never come across this evangelical belief.

I am absolutely aware of the strange beliefs that pervade Christian eschatology, especially the evangelical side of the house. I absolutely concede that some Christian doctrine includes strange violent ridiculous nonsense.

My point is that they are of no concern because this does not cause Western (read Christian majority) countries to go nuts. There is no serious Christian movement to go kill the Jews on behalf of Jesus. Jews are not cowering in fear of Christian militants. They're willing to let imaginary Jesus come and slay the infidel Jews in his own sweet time (read never).

You Muslims are actually doing Allah's infidel killing for him. I'd be totally happy for the Muslims to walk around praying to Allah for him to come and slay the infidels in the end of days. That's perfectly fine. The bar has been set that low for you people. But that's not the case is it?

P.S....Tell me how many Jews and other infidels are being killed in the name of this Christian evangelical dogma? How many terrorist attacks have been and are being committed by Christians to further their vision of Christendom?

Muslims are centered on the idea of the Koran as perfect with no errors or no mistaken beliefs and nothing in it is questionable. They also believe somehow it written in the perfect language and its message is transparent to those who know the language. Unfortunately, most of them never met Chomsky or cognitive science and would think modern linguistics nonsense.

My view of reformation is a consensus on interpretation. The sunni shia quarrel would not factor here. I want to see a courageous mullah write his 95 indictments of present Muslim beliefs and past them on the door of the global masjid. I want to know where it is said women must be burquaized or where it is said they are subject to a man's instruction or if they can on their own come to a state of grace and understand. I want to know if anywhere in it suicide bombing is legitimized or murdering another on account of their faith is allowed or whether there can be secular wisdom comparable with theological wisdom. I want to know if we can defer to science, to reason, to the right of the individual to freely choose.

I think Islam needs a reformation. It is at its core confusion since from Indonesia to Pakistan to Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia to Yemen to Iraq there are groups hoping to dominate in the name of Islam with some rather peculiar beliefs. If there are indeed a band of Muslims who disagree I want to hear them stand up and be counted. Otherwise, I remain convinced I can trust a Muslim with my interest in a communal society. I would believe beyond doubt they will not have my right to live as I please at heart. I would be Infidel, a dhemmitude! Who else could concoct such an abhorred construct? It is akin to racism with all its indignities.

As to why that has not happened is self evident. It does not have at its core a belief in doctrine and criticism of doctrine as handed down to Christians from the Jews and now critical to human secularism. Note the Christians from Augustine to Aquinas was not reticent to use the knowledge gained in inquiry passed on by others. Christians eagerly perused everything. By the time of Mohamed they already had a series of councils questioning the articles of faith. No such tradition exist in islam.

BTW I completely disagree with the president and whatever his motives it he framed the discussion poorly. My only problem with the crusades is was mismanaged poorly executed and  it failed. The Christians did not start the war. Muslim expansionism invaded 3 of the patriarchal seas. Christians  fought as all did at the time given the weaponry and their barbarism is excused on that account. I also see Christians creating the framework for a rational world accepting, accommodating and inviting to other opinions.

Finally, someone with some basic grasp of history instead of a high school amateurish survey of medieval history. The Crusades were a response to repeated Islamic imperial aggression against Christian states.

The history of the middle ages is one of Christian Europe playing defense against repeated Islamic jihad and barely hanging on. It's almost a "miracle" that the Christians survived and actually turned around and put the smack down on the aggressor (Islam).

It was Islam that started a crusade against Christians. In the sixth century they invaded Damascus- a Christian city at the time. Then they went to Jerusalem with the attack. It was a continued trend of aggression, invading Egypt, which was Christian state at the time. Their aggression continued for centuries until the Muslims established a caliphate in Turkey-then they moved to the invasion of Constantinople taking the Church dedicated to the Lord-renamed the Blue Mosque.

In India, their expansion would lead to horrific practices. Remembered by the Hindus of Gujarat.

The invasions were Middle_Eastern muslims attacking middle-eastern christians and hindus.

Converted muslims are not Middle-Eastern people.    

Did you just made the argument for those militants who target western interests? That is what they say is their motivation.

There are many ways to kill a cat. Why did the Southern Baptist Church so strongly supporting the illegal invasion of Iraq? Any lawyer would know that it is not only the person who pulls the trigger who is guilty of murder. Why would the church members have to don the army fatigues when they have their elected officials to do it? And are you telling me that there are no practicing Christians who were part of that illegal brigade that invaded Iraq and destroyed 9000 years of history? 

Bai, the whole birth and development of Christianity was by invaders. There was no Christianity when Jesus walked the Middle East. The Romans created Christianity and enforced it on their occupied people. So why yuh shedding crocodile tears now?

There is what they say and the truth.

this is the Obama statement referencing the barbarism of ISIL:

"And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

where did he engage in a misbegotten  tutorial on the cause(s) of the Crusades . . . blaming Christendom?

and why was the absence of a winning strategy by the Christians 1000 yrs ago material to what the President said?

btw, that "barbarism is excused" because "they" started it is odious; is the barbarism of the Muslims fighting then in the Holy Land similarly excused?

that aside, there is the lament elsewhere of ISIL channeling Vlad the Impaler (of Muslims) in its butcher's march across the desert; since, if i follow correctly, Vlad wasn't such a monster in the context of the times/circumstances he lived in, i wonder why we have embraced his memory so easily in the West as the prototypical Prince of Darkness, Count Dracula?

the infantile "smack down" remark by Shaitaan is, well . . . whatever

You obviously lack the insight of the teachings of the Apostle Paul. Your knowledge of Christianity is to disprove its peaceful attributes

Sorry Bro, Obama aint too bright. A peaceful man he is, no doubt about that. But in the world's affairs, he just another lost sheep speaking without facts. Obama should have read the Book of Genisis, what it says about the descendant of Ishmael. The muslims belive Mahammad was his descendant. 

Wait a darn minute...a black man won Presidency twice in America and he aint too bright??!!!

America is a racist country. Blacks turn out in large number to vote for their own. That is why the Democrats try their very best to hang on to the Black votes.

SO, you think the black vote alone made him win?

To the contrary, he is very bright but has unconventional approaches to many things. It is how he shapes his agenda. I am quite sure he has read Genesis and has a superb grasp of christian theology. I do not know how Ishmael he is a direct line from Ishmael and other Christians came from Issac. But I guess you swallowed the cool aid so you believe anything