Django ...
Hopefully, members will reference only the specific part for their reply/ies.
Former Member
Demerara_Guy posted:Django ...
Hopefully, members will reference only the specific part for their reply/ies.
Keep the fingers crossed. 
skeldon_man posted:Cain, read my previous post: "This all started".
I did. I agree with you and I also agree with Django...both sides have something to hide. Oil $$$ is on all their minds but oil isn't going anywhere for a long time if ever.
Former Member
A blatant and crude attempt to subvert the March 2nd elections
Dear Editor,
I read with complete disbelief reports that the Chief Election Officer Keith Lowenfield stated it will take 156 days to count the votes cast in Guyana’s March 2nd elections. My immediate response was this must be a mistake. Hours later and with no retraction or correction, one can only conclude that in the latest edition of a Guyanese dictionary, this would be listed as a classic example of eyepass.
Or is it that GECOM is short staffed and so it will take this long to count the ballots? In which case, and presuming that the good officer is the only person counting the ballots, here would be the breakdown of his work day:
NUMBER OF BALLOTS 450,000 @10 SECS EACH = 4,500,000 SEC
/ 60 SECS = 75,000 MINUTES
/ 60 MINS = 1250 HOURS/
8HR DAY = 156.25 DAYS
A transparent and full recount this is not. It is high time and beyond time that Guyanese across race and political persuasion call this what it is: a blatant and crude attempt to subvert the March 2nd elections.
Yours faithfully,
Alissa Trotz
skeldon_man posted:@Totaram The people who proposed it and presumably support it are from the PPP.
PROVE IT. Where's the evidence?
Read and you see the proof. It is Benn who proposed that 2 commissioners be at each counting station. What further evidence you want? Personal testimony from Benn?
Dave posted:A blatant and crude attempt to subvert the March 2nd elections
Dear Editor,
I read with complete disbelief reports that the Chief Election Officer Keith Lowenfield stated it will take 156 days to count the votes cast in Guyana’s March 2nd elections. My immediate response was this must be a mistake. Hours later and with no retraction or correction, one can only conclude that in the latest edition of a Guyanese dictionary, this would be listed as a classic example of eyepass.
Or is it that GECOM is short staffed and so it will take this long to count the ballots? In which case, and presuming that the good officer is the only person counting the ballots, here would be the breakdown of his work day:
NUMBER OF BALLOTS 450,000 @10 SECS EACH = 4,500,000 SEC
/ 60 SECS = 75,000 MINUTES
/ 60 MINS = 1250 HOURS/
8HR DAY = 156.25 DAYS
A transparent and full recount this is not. It is high time and beyond time that Guyanese across race and political persuasion call this what it is: a blatant and crude attempt to subvert the March 2nd elections.
Yours faithfully,
Alissa Trotz
Dr. Trotz did not factor in the Benn condition. All of this will change on Tuesday.
Former Member
In US and other countries in the Caribbean, and most of the world, it takes less than a week to add up millions of votes...
In the land of PNC incompetence, it takes 156 days....imagine if they had to count to a million?
Whatever happened to Maths in the school system...has the PNC run down the place so much, people can't even count...
remember 32 is greater than 33, so for every 32 votes PNC gets they add one extra
Former Member
EASTER GREETINGS AND SATURDAY CLARIFICATIONS!!
First, allow me to wish each and every one of you a blessed and peaceful Easter weekend. May the message of hope and resurrection that is associated with Easter not be lost upon us.
In our observance, ensure that all precautions against the COVID-19 virus are taken and may we not be unmindful of the less fortunate in our midst.
Second, in light of the solemnity of Good Friday, I deliberately chose to ignore the several attempts to peddle misinformation yesterday. I’ll seek to provide clarification hereunder.
The recount IS a lawful undertaking by GECOM.
The panoply of powers that GECOM derives from the Constitution of Guyana; the Representation of the People Act, Cap 1:03; and the Electoral Laws (Amendment) Act No. 15/2000 allows it to, among other things, issue such instructions and take such action as appear to it necessary or expedient to ensure impartiality, fairness and compliance with the provisions of the Constitution or any Act of Parliament, related to the conduct of elections and matters connected therewith.
These powers were reviewed, reiterated and pronounced upon by the Court of Appeal under a week ago.
To proffer a view that GECOM does not have the authority or that to do so would be unlawful is being deliberately disingenuous and even dishonest.
Opposition nominated Commissioners are NOT opposed to a recount of all ballots cast in all regions of Guyana in the 2 March 2020 elections.
From the time that the proposal to recount arose, myself, Commissioners Bibi Shadick and Robeson Benn, lent every support necessary to further the process. On the contrary, PM Mottley was forced to comment about ‘forces’ averse to the process.
It is now a matter of public record the persons who sought to derail the process by taking steps in legal proceedings which include, but is not limited to, swearing affidavits designed to thwart the process.
In relation to the recount for Region 4, I maintain that it should be prioritized because it is the source from which controversy erupted, unlike the other regions which were virtually uneventful.
In any event, the Commission has decided to start with regions 1 and 4 concurrently, and proceed therefrom.
This preference can and ought to in no way be interpreted to mean that we have objections to a national recount. I have publicized our proposal submitted in this regard. No where in there is any objection to a national recount even remotely suggested.
That being said...let’s stop *****footing. Let’s get this recount started. The quicker it starts, the quicker it ends. The quicker some modicum of relief, mental and otherwise, could be brought to our beloved land.
LET’S GET THIS SHOW ON THE ROAD!!!
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The topic is about the recount and the misguided attempts to blame Lowenfield for the seeming sloth of the envisaged process. Since some people can't bring themselves to admit that it was a PPP proposal that guided the estimate they are trying to change the topic by posting recycled nonsense.
Former Member
Opposition Commissioners say Recount can be done in 10 days
Apr 10, 2020 News 0 Comments
By Kemol King
A recount of all the votes cast in the 2020 General and Regional Elections could reasonably take about 10 days, with the right arrangements. This is the view of the Commissioners nominated by the Leader of the Opposition.
Opposition-nominated Commissioner Sase Gunraj presented a revised plan to the Commission yesterday
Their plan was presented yesterday at the Commission’s High Street, Kingston office.
Commissioner Robeson Benn had been quite incensed, the day before, by a plan proposed by Chief Elections Officer (CEO), Keith Lowenfield, for which the arrangements saw such a recount lasting 156 days.
But according to explanations given by both Commissioners Gunraj and Vincent Alexander yesterday, the arrangements which led to the production of Lowenfield’s initial plan were limited by instructions of the Commission, especially as it relates to the number of workstations being used. Alexander said that it is instructive to note that when the CEO proposed 156 days, he arrived at that duration on two main premises. These are the time it would take to count one ballot box and the number of Commissioners to be present at each workstation.
It appears that it was Lowenfield’s understanding, after seeking clarity from the Commission, that it would take an average of two hours to count one box. Secondly, the Commissioner who criticized Lowenfield’s initial plan as impractical and unhelpful is the very Commissioner who had indicated that there should be two Commissioners at each workstation, according to information provided by Alexander. Hence, while public outcry expressed the need to have more workstations, it was only logical for Lowenfield’s secretariat to conclude, at the time, that there would be only three workstations, as there are six Commissioners.
“It is rather unfortunate that [when] the CEO follows on from what we have said to him… he is lambasted by Commissioners in the public,” Alexander said.
“It is very unfortunate that that is the manner of conduct of GECOM.”
Gunraj explained, now that that has been cleared up, that the removal of such a restriction means the number of workstations can easily be expanded.
Gunraj made a proposal for the number of workstations to be increased from three to 20. While a significant increase to the number of workstations would logically reduce the duration of the recount, the Commission has to take into consideration the implications of COVID-19 and the necessary safety measures.
Gunraj said that the understanding is that a single workstation would have about 15 persons. This appears to be a cursory assumption, given that the number of observers to be present at the recount still has to be sorted, after talks are had between the missions and GECOM. GECOM has agreed on the presence of the persons entitled to witness the process, as mandated by the Representation of the People Act, including observers and party agents. Alexander said it was agreed that one party representative would be facilitated for each workstation.
Considering Gunraj’s proposal of 15 persons per workstation, with 20 workstations, that plan would place 300 persons in a single compound. Gunraj, who said he has considered the size of the Arthur Chung Conference Centre – inside and outside, is comfortable that the venue can accommodate so many persons, even with the necessary COVID-19 safety precautions.
He said that GECOM is being as responsible as possible in its discussions, where the COVID-19 outbreak is concerned. Government – who, according to former Prime Minister Moses Nagamootoo, should be approached to facilitate the recount – should have no issue simply looking over GECOM’s notification that it intends to carry out a recount, and grant a “no objection”, Gunraj said.
Gunraj has also proposed – and has said that there is some consensus on this – that there should be some amount of parallelism in the completion of the process. With such an arrangement, the number of workstations counting would be split into two teams, where one team begins in numerical order from district one, while the other team works on the largest and more contentious district four.
Further, Gunraj proposed a marginal increase from Lowenfield’s initial in the number of hours working, from 10 to 12.
With all of this in consideration, it is pertinent to note that no decision has yet been made on the number of workstations, and that such a decision is subject to an examination of the venue and a grant of the permission to use it, the Commissioners explained yesterday.
This all means that a duration for the recount is not yet conclusive either, as such a determination is dependent on an examination of the afforementioned and a few factors, such as the time taken to examine one ballot box, which Gunraj has suggested would take an average period of one hour, instead of two. Alexander said that the determination of how long this would take is an average, as some boxes contain more ballots than others.
He noted too that the time taken to count the ballots is not just a numerical count, but an examination of the veracity of all of the boxes’ contents.
All of this considered, Gunraj posited that more than a thousand of the boxes have less than 200 ballots cast, and that 200 of the boxes have less than 50 ballots.
“As a consequence,” he said, “time to count cannot be as burdensome, all things considered.”
On the role of CARICOM, GECOM has agreed in principle that CARICOM should come back and play an elevated role, relative to the other observers. However, Gunraj said that GECOM has to treat very carefully with any elevated role for an observer, given the Appeal Court’s recent order that GECOM cannot delegate its constitutionally mandated supervisory authority to another institution.
Alexander said that people will raise questions about the role of CARICOM, but that it is important to have CARICOM participating in the process as a validating third party. Asked why this is so necessary, the Commissioner pointed to the statements critical of GECOM, which had indicated that there would be little acceptance of the validity of the count if there isn’t such a third party to vouch for the credibility of the process.
Alexander said that GECOM is being responsive to those concerns.
Another consideration in play is the group of declarations currently in the possession of GECOM. While GECOM had recently decided that it would not consider Lowenfield’s report on those, they are yet to be conclusively set aside.
Gunraj said he is hoping to have them scrapped after the Commission’s next meeting.
Alexander on the other hand, said that once the recount causes GECOM to arrive at a final declaration, the initial declarations would become irrelevant. But he did say that a part of the process for the recount includes having to gazette an order indicating the recount exercise that GECOM has to embark on, and that it is his view that the crafting of that order would implicitly nullify the previous declarations. He said that the order is expected to be made once the Commission’s discussions on the recount have concluded.
GECOM is also evidently out of consensus on the role of the Commissioners during the exercise. Alexander explained that there is one Commissioner who insists that the Commissioners should insert themselves into the execution of the process. However, he said that other Commissioners disagree and are of the collective view that the Commissioners, as crafters of the process and the final arbiters on it, should not actively insert themselves into its execution.
Commissioner Charles Corbin had once told reporters that the Commission is not a body that is heavily involved in the operations of the secretariat, that it is a policymaking body, while the secretariat deals with operational matters.
Otherwise, the Commission has agreed on the reporting mechanism and its accompanying methodology, which must now be refined to a final document for consideration by the Commission, which would reflect the discussions had yesterday.
Alexander said that GECOM’s legal officer is now expected to present notes to Lowenfield so that he can finalise another draft plan. The GECOM Secretariat must consider all of yesterday’s discussions and revise its plan for presentation to the Commission again.
GECOM will meet again when that plan is completed.
GECOM is meeting Tuesday. A revised plan for the recount will be considered. In the meanwhile it is obvious that the PPP is looking to back away from a total recount. Their commissioners tried that at the last meeting and failed. What the recount will reveal is causing severe anxiety in some quarters.
Former Member
Mr Been interview ...
Former Member
Bottom line is the reason we are here.
All observers felt that there was cheating going on by APNU members on GECOM
Former Member
PPP never says count region 4 alone. That was before Gecom had stop and delay the counting. It was Jagdeo call for a TOTAL recount of all 10 regions and he is on record as saying who wins wins after the recount. If the PPPC didn't want a total recount of all 10 regions, they could have stood their grounds for region 4 only, that has the issue. It was the PNC crooks who rush to court and block this recount. They now reappers like a angel, accusing PPPC of not wanting a total recount.... ayo have no freking shame.
Jagdeo sign the Aide Memoire ... attach is a copy below .
Following the agreement between President David Granger and Bharrat Jagdeo to have a recount of the total votes cast in the General and Regional Elections, the government-nominated Commissioners asked to be privy to the agreement so that they can satisfy themselves about certain issues.
No sooner was this done and the Commission had unanimously agreed to a recount, an injunction was obtained, by a candidate of the APNU+AFC, stopping the recount.
Former Member
Private Sector responds to APNU+AFC on recount
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See below full statement issued by the Private Sector Commission on April 08:
The Private Sector Commission (PSC) wishes to respond to the criticisms from the APNU+AFC, and others of its affiliates, with regard to the position it has taken on the logic of confining any recount to District 4 instead of returning to a recount including the other nine (9) Districts.
The PSC wishes to point out that the conduct and tabulation of the votes were never disputed in any of the other nine (9) Districts up to the time when the Returning Officer for District 4, Clairmont Mingo, along with Chief Elections Officer, Keith Lowenfield, and Deputy Chief Elections Officer, Roxanne Myers, delivered a fraudulent result, observed and condemned by all of the Local and International Observers and the Diplomatic Community.
Of even greater significance, is the fact that when Chief Elections Officer, Keith Lowenfield, attempted to report a final result to the Commission, which included the fraudulent District 4 count, his report also included all of the other Districts as already counted without any objection from the APNU+AFC.
In fact, at the point in time, when the District 4 tabulation and declaration came under widespread local and international questions for its credibility, the declaration of the results of the other nine (9) Districts had been accepted by all of the contesting political parties. It was only after the tabulation and verification of the count in District 4 were exposed as fraudulent and that a demand for a recount was made that the APNU+AFC sought to question the count in the other Districts.
In the case of District 6, the truth is that a recount of the votes cast was requested by the Counting Agent of the APNU+AFC. The request was approved by the Returning Officer of this District. However, the recount was shelved on the basis of written correspondence from the APNI+AFC Counting Agent who requested that the activity be suspended because the Coalition was not in possession of the relevant SoPs to allow for efficient participation in the recount.
The Private Sector Commission reiterates its position that it has absolutely no interest in which of the contesting political parties is elected to govern Guyana. The PSC is, however, as one of the Accredited Local Observers, totally committed and duty-bound to ensure that a free, fair and credible election result is declared in the shortest possible time by GECOM.
The PSC holds this position, especially, given the fact that the APNU+AFC has now remained in office as a “caretaker” government for some fifteen (15) months since a No-Confidence Motion was legally passed for its removal from office and the holding of new elections and now retains office for some five (5) weeks and counting since the General and Regional Elections have been held.
The statement just issued by the GECOM CEO that a national recount will take 156 days to conclude, that is adding a further five (5) months to the life in the office of an unelected administration and caretaker President, which is very much to the point taken by the PSC that the recount be confined to District 4 where the declared results are genuinely in dispute.
The PSC further wishes to point out that business activity and, indeed, the country’s economic and social life as a whole, is rapidly being paralyzed by the COVID-19 virus pandemic under an unelected administration which has demonstrated a much less than satisfactory ability to manage the challenge of the virus. The PSC further points out that the APNU+AFC administration, because it is unelected, does not command the respect nor recognition of the international community from whom the country desperately needs financial support to fight the virus. The longer this untenable situation prevails, the worse for the people of Guyana.
The PSC points out that, had the District 4 count not been stopped by the fraud which had taken place within GECOM and which has not evidentially taken place in any of the other Districts, the election results would have long ago been declared and a new democratically elected government would already be in place with the full support of the international community.
Further, the PSC is not blind to the fact that GECOM’s commitment to act as the law prescribes to conduct a recount, has been consistently delayed by the intervention of APNU+AFC election candidate, Ulita Moore, in spite of and in conflict with President Granger’s invitation to CARICOM to facilitate the recount. The PSC must, therefore, ask, wherefore does the hypocrisy truly lie?
The PSC recognizes, as the Courts have now reinforced, that it is the duty and responsibility of GECOM to put right what it has allowed to be wrong, by concluding the elections in the shortest possible time.
The PSC recognizes that it is the duty and responsibility of GECOM to administer a recount of the election results in whatever manner and by whatever method it chooses to do so, within the law, with complete transparency, under local and international observation, but without further delay, certainly, not another five (5) months . The PSC will support GECOM in doing so.
Former Member
PPPC Counter Proposal for a recount... read (b) written in english language.
Former Member
Dave posted:Jagdeo sign the Aide Memoire ... attach is a copy below .
Dave, while this agreement was signed by Granger, Jagdeo and LaRocque, it has no bearing on the function of GECOM.
In other words .. GECOM as an independent organization makes decisions pursuant to the relevant sections of the Constitution.
It will be of interest to see what develops on Tuesday, April 14, 2020.
Whomsoever this Dave person is, whether one, two or several, or whether he lets people post under his name, does not read the documents he posts. I am not sure he/they would even understand what's posted or the issues being discussed. But, somehow this person believes he could lecture people about understanding the English language.
@Totaram, Certainly more than one person is posting with that handle. Dave's English is like that of a 3rd grader.
Former Member
It appears FH is using this handle and site to dump propaganda and flood the threads with noise. No effort is made to have a discussion. Also, note the large number of threads that are started daily.
HaHaaaaa I wondered when others would catch what's going on. I have a feeling Dave is lending out his handle (which goes against the rules if I remember correctly) to someone who has command of the English language and also to Councie, the fool( s) who regurgitated the same shyte in every post before last election,until the PPP lost ....."they" then disappeared.
Former Member
@Cain, Mitwah, FC, Totaram
I see all my post is view with a microscope to try and find faults, Idle gig people. All EVIL will DIE.
Anyone with a functioning brain and primary 4 education would and should be able to comprehend. We ah Guyanese we can speak rite and undastan broken English.
You are inclined with my choice of words there is no problem in absorbing the facts. My messages are important, and they come forth clearly… I got your attention, and that’s what matter. Without my posting, you mentally warped minded losers will have nothing to do but suck each other Arss and the world will have more issues ….
I got your attention……
Ah! What a relief.
As if the clouds have vanished allowing the sun to shine on me.
And the rays gave me all its power and creative energy to think more, and do more and shake your imagination if I share my handle.....
Former Member
FC posted:It appears FH is using this handle and site to dump propaganda and flood the threads with noise. No effort is made to have a discussion. Also, note the large number of threads that are started daily.
STFU, and start a thread for discussion... you have lots of choices. Make hay while the sun is still shinning for you.
Former Member
DaveVoice of the People
Dave posted:
Scumbag, are you really threatening people?
Former Member
cain posted:Dave posted:Scumbag, are you really threatening people?
I see the Covid virus has a direct impact on your mental health. As you quarantine in your PIG pen, brush up on your comprehension... you are Fck in your head.
Listen to the sleaze telling me about brushing up on comprehension, I'm surprised David dickbreath even spelled it right, or perhaps it is one of your other Dave's posting, but let me tell you banna. If I do get the virus, with my strong immune system and parts in good working order I will more than likely bounce back. You on the other hand, dont have a chance...being an illiterate backward croolie cockroach you can't get any better, you are also getting too ole to change your filthy habits..
Former Member
cain posted:Listen to the sleaze telling me about brushing up on comprehension, I'm surprised David dickbreath even spelled it right, or perhaps it is one of your other Dave's posting, but let me tell you banna. If I do get the virus, with my strong immune system and parts in good working order I will more than likely bounce back. You on the other hand, dont have a chance...being an illiterate backward croolie cockroach you can't get any better, you are also getting too ole to change your filthy habits..
PUTAGEE MAFIA ...I just enjoy seeing you make a hysterical ASS of yourself!
Your stinking dutty gutter rat attitude is the same you display at other members, but you pick the wrong fight sleezeball ... see yo @ Pane Vino, I will shew you mother fker and spit you out.
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