quote:

Originally posted by seignet:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
Look what the AFC got for touting the Afro rights agenda as a flag-ship message. .

Dem is racists to the core. Country, flag and national anthem doan mean a squat to dem.

And yet the flag is inspired by the African Independence movement, and the national anthem, written by an AfroGuyanese.

Guess what when the PNC was in IndoGuyanese had nothing to do with Guyana. Now with the PPP Afros are still loyal Guyanese even if they hate the PPP.

In 1990 loads of Indos tried to pass as Trinis. How many Afros do yous ee trying to pass off as anything other than Guyanese?

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:

I think Afros are very comfortable, they seem much better off than Indians in many respects and much better off than under the PNC. The PPP has actually neglected Indians over the past 5 years.

This is why we have our warfare. There you go....you dont know and yet you opine. No baseman if teachers are the major high schools who have university degrees ae begging overseas alumni to supplement their salaries they arent happy. And the very heavy turn out of this group should let you know this.

Why, if they feel so happy, didnt they vote PPP when the PPP was out their literally buying their votes, as they werent sure what Indians were up to? Its not that Granger inspired them because you know fullw ell that as recently as August most of us had given up APNU as a lost case.

Yes the PPP has neglected grass roots Indians as they have neglected every one else. Prove to me that Indos are begging for civil service jobs and are being frustrated by not being allowed in. Civil servants struggle as do others in Guyana.

You seen we are in a circle. You coming to the reasons why many of us supported AFC. AFC promised 20% salary increase and such stuff, but no one seemed that interested.

I actually ain't going to hutt my head over Guyana politics, it is what it is. For whatever, reason always seem to be the perennial loser. In 15-20 or so years, another AFC-style party will emerge to give PPP and PNC headache.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:

You seen we are in a circle. You coming to the reasons why many of us supported AFC. .

You supported the AFC and yet say assinine things like the Africans are sitting happy as ever.

So why then can we be assured that the AFC ha sthe answer when clearly you dont project it?

If people thought the AFc was going to lose they therefore had no reason to believe that the 20% was going to be valid.

As is without a strong APNU poll the PPP would have won outright as the AFC's 10% wasnt enough..

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
Why, if they feel so happy, didnt they vote PPP when the PPP was out their literally buying their votes,

Maybe race was more important to them than a full stomach.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Maybe race was more important to them than a full stomach.

Another Indo telling black people who they must feel. Racist black hater black people have spoken. THEY HATE THE PPP AS YOU ALL ABUSE THEM> GET USED TO IT OR CHNAGE YOUR RACIST WAYS!!!!

Now tell us racist PPPite why do you think almost all decision making positions should be in the hands of Indians. Look at who heads GECOM, PHG, the corporations, commissions, committees, ambassadorships. How is it right that 45% of the population accounts for over 80% of these slots based on evidence submitted by Nigel Hughes and not contradicted by Luncheon?

caribj is GNI's Law and Order dude.

Remember the guy who sat outside bourda market with a one man band and he would beat a stuffed toy as a prisoner .

I can see caribj carryin on dem antics, hehehehe

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by seignet:
The leaders in the black community wants Power Sharing.ctive.

Name me a country where a major ethnic group is locked out of decision making and I will name you a nation which has serios problems. You cannot have 40% of the population feeling excluded, jump on a high horse at the notion that they want inclusion, and thene sxpect them to be happy.

You werent happy when Burnham, excluded you all, so why expect others to be any different when similarly excluded?

GUYANA...under the PNC and burnam...Did you or any of the PNC dictators ever think for one second about power sharing when yall frigg the country up fu 28 years???thank God for the PPP...they were able to pull Guyana out of the shyte hole.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Maybe race was more important to them than a full stomach.

Another Indo telling black people who they must feel. Racist black hater black people have spoken. THEY HATE THE PPP AS YOU ALL ABUSE THEM> GET USED TO IT OR CHNAGE YOUR RACIST WAYS!!!!

Now tell us racist PPPite why do you think almost all decision making positions should be in the hands of Indians. Look at who heads GECOM, PHG, the corporations, commissions, committees, ambassadorships. How is it right that 45% of the population accounts for over 80% of these slots based on evidence submitted by Nigel Hughes and not contradicted by Luncheon?

Caribj, I can tell you, regardless what you see on this board, many many Indians don't like this and want a change. For many though, ethnic security takes over at the ballot box. This was one of the agenda I personally supported on the AFC side. Many Indians are fearful that Afros will take it out on innocent indians, so you see, then nation is tied itself up in knots which they cannot unravel. It would have been a master stoke on any PNC leader to address that pre-1992 with regards to Indians and it will take a master stroke by the PPP to begin this process. Thus far we are dealing in power-play politics and no one wants to be the first to blink. I can tell you, there are division among Indians about what Granger would do if he gained power. Some feel he may be a great healer others feel it will be the end of te Indian race in Guyana, a return to pre-1992.

My advise is to give the new president a chance, work with th system, then push for the changes when he becomes his own man. Trying to push him in a corner now will create a push-back as he cannot come across as weak. People feel comfortable and willing to listen and condider changes when they are not pushed.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Maybe race was more important to them than a full stomach.

Another Indo telling black people who they must feel. Racist black hater black people have spoken. THEY HATE THE PPP AS YOU ALL ABUSE THEM> GET USED TO IT OR CHNAGE YOUR RACIST WAYS!!!!

Now tell us racist PPPite why do you think almost all decision making positions should be in the hands of Indians. Look at who heads GECOM, PHG, the corporations, commissions, committees, ambassadorships. How is it right that 45% of the population accounts for over 80% of these slots based on evidence submitted by Nigel Hughes and not contradicted by Luncheon?

As I have told you before, I used to eat from the same plate as Pasty (the black guy who used to walk all the way to Timehri to shine shoes). One cannot be more unracist that that given how Indians didn't like eating and drinking from other people wares. You seem very racial though. I got scared when the PNC came close to taking majority power because history is not on their side there. The PPP may have issues but the PNC put the country in the grave.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by baseman:
My advise is to give the new president a chance, [QUOTE]

He was given a chance and shot old ladies. Sorry with a start like that the onus is on Ramotar to prove himself.

The ethnic insecurity bit you peddle doesnt iompress becasue you fail to understand that this goes both ways. Many Africans feel economically victimized by Indian elites. Tell a black UG student who cant find a decent job and who has to flee to Barbados to get one that he shouldnt have distrust as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
As I have told you before, I used to eat from the same plate as Pasty (.

Yes you and the son of the plantation owner who "loved" his slaves.

Black people dont like the PPP and its not just for reasons of ethnic loyalty...last time many abandoned the PNC by staying home or voting AFC.

When you try to understand why they came out in droves, angered by BJ and the other PPP racists, you will show signs of being interested in inclusion.

Right now you want an Indo dominated state where you can be "nice" to the black servants.


I am "racial" to you because I see no reason why AfroGuyanese should be marginlaized within their own country under a racist elite which is determined to squeeze them out of decsion making.

If you think that an Indocracy is fair well that indiactes where you are coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
When you try to understand why they came out in droves, angered by BJ and the other PPP racists, you will show signs of being interested in inclusion.

Why did they switch from voting AFC like they did in 2006? What did Granger promise them during his campaign that made them vote PNC? Both their vote for AFC and their abstansion from AFC along with their vote for PNC this time screams of racial voting unless you can say what he promised them.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
If you think that an Indocracy is fair well that indiactes where you are coming from.

None of these parties are one race anymore. I have a problem with the PNC because I remember clearly what I left. Back then, whenever we gat a barrel from the US, only about half make its way home bacause everyone had to geta piece of it first. And that is only one example of PNC nonsense. Sp what did Granger promise his constituents?

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
If you think that an Indocracy is fair well that indiactes where you are coming from.

None of these parties are one race anymore. I have a problem with the PNC because I remember clearly what I left. Back then, whenever we gat a barrel from the US, only about half make its way home bacause everyone had to geta piece of it first. And that is only one example of PNC nonsense. Sp what did Granger promise his constituents?

Both of these parties are essentially one race parties. If you were contemptuous of LFSB then the lot in office are no less scoundrels. Further, these lay claim to being democrats. They are therefore not only thieves but defilers of a creed by selling a falsehood and duping a people.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
Both of these parties are essentially one race parties. If you were contemptuous of LFSB then the lot in office are no less scoundrels. Further, these lay claim to being democrats. They are therefore not only thieves but defilers of a creed by selling a falsehood and duping a people.

I am not contesting that both parties are predominantly supported along racial lines. My only contention the past week or so on these threads is that it had to take the IMF to force the PNC to have a transparent election. During those 28 years Jagan's Indian majority were impotent to swing the grvernment in his favor. Today, Guyana does not have the kind of debt to force another compliance from the PNC if they regain majority rule and Guyana would have to wait for the country to be back in the gutter before they get any outside help and from the looks of things, the PNC have not lost their stripes from those days. Not to mention that who would want Guyana to sink back to where it was before 1992. Remember that it was not until after the 1992 elections that Ted Kennedy apologized for his brother's role in what Jagan went through during those 28 years.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
Both of these parties are essentially one race parties. If you were contemptuous of LFSB then the lot in office are no less scoundrels. Further, these lay claim to being democrats. They are therefore not only thieves but defilers of a creed by selling a falsehood and duping a people.

I am not contesting that both parties are predominantly supported along racial lines. My only contention the past week or so on these threads is that it had to take the IMF to force the PNC to have a transparent election. During those 28 years Jagan's Indian majority were impotent to swing the grvernment in his favor. Today, Guyana does not have the kind of debt to force another compliance from the PNC if they regain majority rule and Guyana would have to wait for the country to be back in the gutter before they get any outside help and from the looks of things, the PNC have not lost their stripes from those days. Not to mention that who would want Guyana to sink back to where it was before 1992. Remember that it was not until after the 1992 elections that Ted Kennedy apologized for his brother's role in what Jagan went through during those 28 years.

The IMF had no part in forcing Hoyte to the polls. Guyanese of all ilk did that. They were facilitated by the fall of the old Soviet union and the flowering of democracy everywhere.

The PPP were old communists. Communists were not democrats. Democracy was foisted on them. Alas it did not come with all the requisite tools for a flourishing of democratic tendrils across all aspects of the society. The PPP therefore were charged to be the transitioning entity to facilitate that growth. They did not.

Kennedy Apologizing for his brother is one thing. Cheddi never making clear he is not a communist at a time when the US had no latitude for vacillation and or argumentation as to what it its objective threw us into the cold war cauldron with us getting burnt. That is the other side.

I am sure Kennedy who had to face down the soviet Union in cuba in '62 and had us just 30 minutes from a global nuclear conflagration did not want to have to manage two cubas in the west. Cheddi mate himself obsolete with his lack of clarity and his reluctance to face down the ideology of his wife squarely and say communism is a thing alien to our culture.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
What did Granger promise them during his campaign that made them vote PNC?.

The possibility that teh days of Indian rule will eb over and that Africans will be included in sizeble numbers among those who make decisions.

Right now they serve teh wishes of those who do.

Argue as much as you wish, but unless you want to hear about how Indians didnt have a right to see the end of Burnham's rule you really have nothing to say.

AfroGuyanese think the PPP is a racist and oppressive regime. They have had 19 years to see this and the PPP, despite its boasts, ha smade no inroads into the Afro vote since 2006.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
If you think that an Indocracy is fair well that indiactes where you are coming from.

None of these parties are one race anymore. ?

And you just said that blacks voted race...so clearly the PPP doesnt attract their votes...so then the PPP must be mainly Indians as the Indian, African and Afro mixed form almost 85% of the population.

Do you really think that Guyana can continue to function where one group, whose elite dominate all facets of life in Guyana, can lock another (even the elite of that group) and expect them to accept this indefinitely.

You can do like all the racists in history and accalim that "I know my negroes are happy and its only a few trouble makers stirring them up"...this while virtually all of them vote against you when we add up APNU and AFC votes (yes the AFC did get some black votes).

OR you can listen to what they ahve to say...dialogue,,,find a meeting point where every one feels happier. But the PPP has no interest in this because this threatens their continued dominance.

So we will have anxious moments after every election as to whether the "negroes will beat us up when they discover they lost again". You seem happy with this.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
. During those 28 years Jagan's Indian majority were impotent to swing the grvernment in his favor. .

And now maybe you understand how frustrated and aangry blacks are, locked out only because there arent enough of them?

So if Africans cant become involved by voting, locked out by a non African vote what do you suggest they do....become "our slaves" to people like Guyana1, smile and be happy that their massa is not white, but now Indian...who uses the same patronizing tone sto describe them?


Instead of being defensive understand that there is an African narrative in Guyana, every bit as valid as the Indian narrative of PNC rule that you described.

Ask yourself why the ethnic polarzation of Guyaan didnt make it easy for the CIA to have its way. They didnt create it. They found it and used it.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
The IMF had no part in forcing Hoyte to the polls.

What I read is that the IMF forced the PNC to open the election to international observation thereby placing Carter there in 1992.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
If you think that an Indocracy is fair well that indiactes where you are coming from.

None of these parties are one race anymore. ?

And you just said that blacks voted race...so clearly the PPP doesnt attract their votes...so then the PPP must be mainly Indians as the Indian, African and Afro mixed form almost 85% of the population.

I meant the makeup of the parties, not the people who vote for them.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
The IMF had no part in forcing Hoyte to the polls.

What I read is that the IMF forced the PNC to open the election to international observation thereby placing Carter there in 1992.

And what has this to do with the fact that Africans consider the PPP to be not very different to the KKK?

You all shut them out, drop bits of candy as if they are little kids, then wonder why they dont like you.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
Do you really think that Guyana can continue to function where one group, whose elite dominate all facets of life in Guyana, can lock another (even the elite of that group) and expect them to accept this indefinitely.

No. That is why I stated continuously that I like the makeup of the parliament. It is you who still seem to have a problem with it.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
I meant the makeup of the parties, not the people who vote for them.

Yes the PNC has a few token Indians and the PPP have afew token Africans. Neither having any credibility with the bulk of their fellow ethnics...indeed the APNU success in attracting its votes may lie with the behavior of the PPP blacks who they saw as monster beuing used to undermine their own people. Lumumba, McCoy and others displaying violence and disrespect for AfroGuyanese.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
]

No. That is why I stated continuously that I like the makeup of the parliament. It is you who still seem to have a problem with it.

the PPP has bunches of black tokens an stooges. These blacks have no clout. When asked about the Indo composition of the cadres who make real decisions they have nothing to say. Luncheon left looking stupid with his "I dont know" response to every question which cited how excluded Africans are.

The PPP tried to fool blacks and you ought to know this tactic failed. Give up. WE DONT LIKE THE PPP AS IT IS A RACIST BLACK HATING GROUP!!!

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
Instead of being defensive understand that there is an African narrative in Guyana, every bit as valid as the Indian narrative of PNC rule that you described.

I don't have a problem with black people. I just don't think a return of the PNC days that I left are good for Guyana.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
[

I don't have a problem with black people..

yes you love them in this subordinated condition. Well they dont like this comndition and they showed you on election day.

Now if you want inclusion be TRULY INCLUSIVE. They voted APNU and if you exclude APNU you exclude them because it is they who they voted for. Once again Africans and mixed voters rejected the PPP. While you are at it recognize that teh APNU and the AFC got the majority of the votes...not the PPP.

GET THE POINT> WE DO N OT LIKE THE PPP!!!!! Quite fooliing yourself that we do because you attract a few black soup drinkers, thugs and toothless poodles. 95% DO NOT LIKE YOU ALL!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
WE DONT LIKE THE PPP AS IT IS A RACIST BLACK HATING GROUP!!!

Indians can say the same about the PNC but that is irrelevant bacause neither has absolute power to screw the other. Your party has enough seats in parliament to stop the nonsense and they should be there doing just that. So why are we still protesting?

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
WE DONT LIKE THE PPP AS IT IS A RACIST BLACK HATING GROUP!!!

Indians can say the same about the PNC

I have said this many times. If APNU had won they would have been out there protesting and screaming genocide outside of the UN headqurters WITH NO PERMISSION as they used to in Burnham's day.

If Indos have a right to ahte the PNC than blacks have a right to hate the PPP. Good governance will be such as to figure out how to move beyiond this hatred. Shooting peaceful protesters and demonizing them as being violent breeds resentment...not trust.

The PPP began this very very badly. There is nothing you can say that will make this not true. Why do you expect them to want to w ork with the PPP when the first act of Ramotar was to snaction violence against the party which won the overwhelming majority of African votes.

He needs to apologize and show good faith if he wants similar to be accorded to him...He ha snot done so.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
GET THE POINT> WE DO N OT LIKE THE PPP!!!!! Quite fooliing yourself that we do because you attract a few black soup drinkers, thugs and toothless poodles. 95% DO NOT LIKE YOU ALL!!!!

Bai, during the PNC rule, the above comments would be a compliment for them. They had some real sons of bitches doing their dirty work.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
]

No. That is why I stated continuously that I like the makeup of the parliament. It is you who still seem to have a problem with it.

the PPP has bunches of black tokens an stooges. These blacks have no clout. When asked about the Indo composition of the cadres who make real decisions they have nothing to say. Luncheon left looking stupid with his "I dont know" response to every question which cited how excluded Africans are.

The PPP tried to fool blacks and you ought to know this tactic failed. Give up. WE DONT LIKE THE PPP AS IT IS A RACIST BLACK HATING GROUP!!!

Tell us something new. You also don't like the "Indian-ness" in the AFC but it's now just a means to an end.

What actually failed is Plan A.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
They had some real sons of bitches doing their dirty work.

teh same sons now hired by the PPP...House of Israel people doing PPP dirty work....I never thought I would have seen that day!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
The IMF had no part in forcing Hoyte to the polls.

What I read is that the IMF forced the PNC to open the election to international observation thereby placing Carter there in 1992.

The IMF is essentially a US controlled entity. It's refusal to offer loans was per Regan. Carter was a facilitator/mediator for the various Guyanese entities and the US which brought pressure to bear on Hoyte.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
caribj:The PPP tried to fool blacks and you ought to know this tactic failed. Give up. WE DONT LIKE THE PPP AS IT IS A RACIST BLACK HATING GROUP!!!

What actually failed is Plan A.[/QUOTE]

I see that you are upset that I call the PPP racists. Well you already are one so as you head back to the PPP dont let that worry you.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
I have said this many times. If APNU had won they would have been out there protesting and screaming genocide outside of the UN headqurters WITH NO PERMISSION as they used to in Burnham's day.

If Indos have a right to ahte the PNC than blacks have a right to hate the PPP. Good governance will be such as to figure out how to move beyiond this hatred. Shooting peaceful protesters and demonizing them as being violent breeds resentment...not trust.

The PPP began this very very badly. There is nothing you can say that will make this not true.

For all the years I lived in Guyana where I can process information, I have never seen Indians protesting, beating, looting killing like you talk about. The only time I know of Indians marching is under the WPA banner when Rodney led the party and many of them got retrenched by the PNC government for striking back in 1978.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

For all the years I lived in Guyana where I can process information, I have never seen Indians protesting, beating, looting killing like you talk about. .

Oh well I can guess you were not around in the 1960s because they did much of that. Lurk early morning and then attack blacks going to work, chopping them to pieces. When they werent douing that tehy were burning down black people's homes. We had to flee to Gtwn from WCD because of that.

This excuse doesnt wash for those who know the truth.

Ask yourself why almost all the AfroGuyanese who fought in the WPA against an African dictatorship now find themselves having to fight an Indian dictator.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
The IMF is essentially a US controlled entity. It's refusal to offer loans was per Regan. Carter was a facilitator/mediator for the various Guyanese entities and the US which brought pressure to bear on Hoyte.

Exactly. So the transparency would not have happened without it. That is not the experience under the PPP since 1992 irrespective of their shenanigans. I don't know that the PNC has reformed enough to continue this transparency method if they were to ever regain majority rule and I don't think the Guyana people want to find out the hard way.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
I don't know that the PNC has reformed enough to continue this transparency method ay.

While that might be true we also know the PPP is equally corrupt...so whats your point. Every day the PPP tries to become as oppressive as Burnham was...this disgraceful attack on old women and children ebing an example of this.

And PPP corruption makes the PNC look angelic.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

For all the years I lived in Guyana where I can process information, I have never seen Indians protesting, beating, looting killing like you talk about. .

Oh well I can guess you were not around in the 1960s because they did much of that. Lurk early morning and then attack blacks going to work, chopping them to pieces. When they werent douing that tehy were burning down black people's homes. We had to flee to Gtwn from WCD because of that.

This excuse doesnt wash for those who know the truth.

Ask yourself why almost all the AfroGuyanese who fought in the WPA against an African dictatorship now find themselves having to fight an Indian dictator.

I was a baby during the 63 riots and from what my mother in law told me (my parents never talked to us about those days) was that it was Indians who suffered tremendously. She told me about the rapes and fires and killings.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
The only time I know of Indians marching is under the WPA banner when Rodney led the party and many of them got retrenched by the PNC government for striking back in 1978.

Now you all get angry when I talk of Indo clannishness but you know full well that Afro WPA supporters were treated even worse because Burnham couldnt countenance the fact that blacks were beginning to realize that he wasnt their savior as he promoted himself as being. The PPP now treating Indians who have left their plantation in an equally vile way.