Really Vish......

I mean "Really"?....Vish!!!

This woman was a parasite on Guyana just like her husband.

The white plague.......

So sad.

the group who asked me to post this flyer was reluctant to bring it to this forum.

"HM_Redux", I guess English is your first language.

White Parasite???

I guess that the "head" on your handle says a lot

It is a fact, what benefit has any Jagan brought to Guyana and Guyanese?

Were it not for these selfish bastards Burnham would have never been able to seize private companies in Guyana and nationalize them and we would have never gained independence and our people across the board would have been better off today.

This woman brought more destruction and division to Guyana than anyone else.

Read and educate yourself and quit being a lousy follower.

http://www.amazon.com/Sweeteni...4-1966/dp/9766371938

This book is about Jock Campbell’s role in the shaping of British Guiana (Guyana) towards the end of Empire. Campbell, the head of the Booker Company which owned most of the sugar plantations in colonial Guyana was a reformer whose Fabian social beliefs drove him to secure major benifits for sugar workers in teh 1950s and 1960s. Clem Seecharan explores the fascinating interplay between Campbell’s programme of reforms and the doctrinaire Marxism of Guyana’s charismatic politician, Cheddi Jagan. Fed by his notion of ‘bitter sugar’ and an unrelenting hostility to Booker, Jagan exploited the loyalty of Indian sugar workers to foment instability on the plantations and thus undermined Campbell’s mission to alleviate the colony’s bitter plantation legacy.Seecharan provides a rigorous analysis of Campbell – a complex, progressive contradictory and passionate man – and his work in turbulent British Guiana, marked by nationalist stirrings, mobilisation doe decolonisation, the fragmenting of Jagan’s nationalist coalition and descent into racial hatred and violence

the narrative is just an opinion not a FACt, but as I said "english" could be your first language 

for starters please do not use the "head" of a jackass to hid behind.

Post under your name.

I could use whatever I want as a name that is the freedom I have in the Great US of A. Refute what I am saying with a plausible argument rather than braying pony tail.

Vish, what Redux is saying is that the PPP supported Burnham's nationalization and lent critical support to Burnham's path to autocratic rule. He inferentially says too that Janet was the driver behind everything the PPP did in those days and up to opening the door to Jagdeo. So it's tough for Redux and others here to use language you'd like.

How come the group knew better about this than you vish?

Knowing the difference between facts and opinions

A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

The Jock Campbell story is based on facts. You may not like it but that is a fact.

Jagan was evil to support the PNC on certain occasions but you were saint to support the PNC 100% while the country was being destroyed.

Billy is a smart Goat....

If yuh Support Jagan...

You must Support Moses...

Because Like Jagan....

Moses fighting Corruption & Thiefing in Govt.

I wonder at times, why is it that some people fail to see the obvious. Is like they are wired differently for analytical endeavours. Is it blind loyalty that Vish has? The misery that the Jagans brought upon Guyana and yet He in particular fails to recognize.

If they choose Moses, then we going down the same path as the Jagans charted. Moses love to talk, bull headed and BELIEVES he must lead. Sorry bro.-Moses backed everything corruptable thing the PPP done to the people of Guyana.

And please for his own good DO NOT ASSOCIATE HIM WITH ANY OF THE JAGANS. You hurt whatever chances he may have. Because today, the majority knows the architect of their demise. 

Jalil I think lil swan is dead on the money with this and Moses and these other politicians may see better fortunes by forgetting mentioning the name of Jagan where they go and start telling the bloody people what is their vision.

No one wants to hear about Jagan's bullshit vision we are living it and it aint pretty.

Jagan was a scoundrel that has been proven time and time again. Janet actively moved to undermine Moses and ensure he didn't become President and Moses knows that today. I think privately Moses has recognized the destruction that the Jagans brought to Guyana.

With Cheddi and the PPP you have to look at the historical pre-colonial and post-colonial contexts. Before the 64 elections his struggles against Britain even with a socialist tinge has to be seen as beneficial to Guyana - the changes to the civil services and educational opportunities for instance. The post-colonial Cheddi, with our Caribbean roots following the norms of the socialist International - tha's another story. Tactically th critical support at a time when those two guys were gunned down at the Corentyne toll booth was the straw that broke the camel's back - hello Richmond Hill.....

Hence the admonition to Jalil for Moses to tone down the Jagan heritage. Vish is not naive to the PPP's legacy and the current iteration of it. He's just doing Wendell, Kushial and Indira a favor.

You supposed lovers of the Cheddi clan miss the fact that this story is one instance where their Marxist dalliance missed the boat of change completely. Jock, a Fabian socialist was the first instrument of real change in the lives of the sugar workers. Cheddi and his love for the promise of a Marxist utopia could not see the real change happening before him.

And then that detritus of a dead era, JJ, handed us Jagdeo and the burdens we bear

I agree with you on the context and the general feeling at the time. But something I saw recently which was very telling was a video of the Queen's visit to GY.

Jagan called on the nation to boycott the visit but the love of the people for the monarchy was amazing during that time. 

Jagan was instrumental in poisoning the water against British rule for his own selfish gains. Just like how he bemoaned many good initiatives and ideas Burnham had that were beneficial to the country like National Service, Gaibank and others only to see today that the PPP themselves are now regurgitating all of Burnham's ideas.

The other issue to keep in mind is that yes we could have voted for independence but for Jagan to support Burnham to destroy the industrial base in Guyana which led to economic ruin for the country is something that must be examined.

Jagan was no saint he was the devil and his wife was again I say a plague brought to Guyana.

At this point, I enter the argument.

I knew Cheddi and Janet Jagan personally. I interacted with them continually from 1970 to 1992. Thereafter Janet Jagan and I met two times on neutral ground as I was no longer in the PPP. After I migrated to Canada she and I exchanged letters and cards up to 2008. So, my opinion below is base both on personal experience and acquired knowledge.

Cheddi Jagan had flaws and so did Janet. Personal flaws. Political flaws. Who doesn't have personal flaws? To err is human.

Regarding their political flaws, history's long telescopic arm will judge them 50-50, half good and half bad.

The half good pertains to Jagan's nationalism, his sincere desire to improve socio-economic conditions of Guyanese.

The half bad pertains to his internationalism, his firm embrace of some of the world's most autocratic figures and regimes that he presented to us innocent Guyanese citizens as good progressive folks and great friends. The now defunct Soviet Union and authoritarian regimes in Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Latin America.

I recall that the Jagans used to praise Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, for instance. Lately I learned that Nasser used to jail and kill his political opponents left right and centre as Castro did in Cuba. These men were the Jagans' friends.

I come back to the half good. Janet Jagan got laws passed in the legislative assembly in the 1950s that resulted in better living and working conditions of people, not only women. The Wortmanville housing scheme that stretches from Durban Street southward to Princess Street is a monument to her legacy. The original low-income tenants became eventual owners of their individual units. Thanks to Janet too, women slaving as domestics, waitresses and cleaners got higher pay and legal protection. Not to forget, up to the early 1950s female civil servants had to quit their jobs when they got married. Janet Jagan introduced and got legislation passed to end that injustice. Married women public servants in Guyana today owe thanks to Janet Jagan. But, in the end, Janet made one terrible mistake which Guyanese are paying for today --- bypassing Ralph Ramkarran and Moses Nagamootoo and imposing Bharrat Jagdeo on the nation.

IMHO, nothing is wrong in paying tribute to Janet Jagan, Cheddi Jagan, Forbes Burnham, Desmond Hoyte, etc. They played their roles on the national stage, they received applause and boos and rotten eggs too, and they have admirers still, who are entitled to honour their memory.

I plead for tolerance.

I disagree with most of your comments Gilly on this one and I understand why you and many others may feel the same way as you do with regards to the Jagans because your personal relationship with them inhibits your social imagination and thus you are struggling with removing yourself from what you know of the Jagans and look at them from a different perspective. We all struggle with this in many ways. Reverence to our parents etc. is a similar example.

There is nothing wrong with this however when you examine carefully the deeds of the Jagans it is extremely difficult to paint them in any good light especially when you examine some of their key actions in supporting the economic destruction of Guyana. 

I refuse to give the PPP a free pass on this because many other countries that gained independence from Britain like Barbados and others their leaders did not destroy the country. Jagan did that.

If you look at how Jagan bemoaned the Burnham 1980 constitution and when he got into office he embraced it wholeheartedly.

To say everyone has flaws and thus the Jagan's have flaws is to minimize the destruction wrought on the people by this hideous couple of very selfish individuals.

Friend, I had left out one piece about BJ. I just edited/inserted it. Check out.

As Premier, he knowingly allowed the Minister of Resource to recieve bribes from Indoes for farmlands.

As President, he knowingly allowed the Minister of Public Works to recieve kick-backs.

As President, he knowingly favoured the Junior Minister of Finance over more knowledgeable individuals on the economic possibilities for Guyana.

As President, he alone decided to bring from England the Revenue General and JUST GIVE him the job.

As President, he was a blasted racist who only skin his teeth with Black Folks.

His rewards are a yoke around the necks of the Guyanese people. Even Glenn Lall getting blowns from the Jagans vindictive ways. The Jagan encourage thiefing.

I plead tolerance as well Gilly what I don't plead is idolation.

These folks have brought misery to hundreds of thousands of people and generations of Guyanese. I think we have a responsibility to be honest about the actions and more so the destructive nature of Jagan and Burnham.

It is important to examine their selfish actions that have brought destruction for so many. We have spent way too much time heaping praise on these folks and in some ways I do think their actions were criminal.

There were great men and women in British Guiana's politic at the time of The Jagans. To differ with them earned those people the brand of Colonial Stooges. It is no wonder he opened the doors to PNC henchmen after 1992. He loved the word stooge.

One has to divest themselves of their personal knowledge of people and apply the rigid tools of deconstruction and critical analysis on the results of their actions. It is not about their good intent but poor judgements. Commitment to international socialism caused them to miss the salutary effects of actual socialist work in the society by a real person dealing with real problems  and making inroads. They trampled on that not some esoteric notions of a coming Marxist utopia. We know they were dead wrong because nowhere has any society developed into wholesome people friendly culture on Marxist praxis.

Mrs J had history and long contemplative life to know that one cannot merely select an novice and imbue him with power over the state simply on a notion personal to her by bypassing her own party practice of moving cadres up according to competence and long work. It not only foisted the crook jagdeo on us but it poisoned the PPP ranks forever so now all there is are competing factions seeking to conserve the hegemony of  their private clique.

Meanwhile Guyana suffers and all this is a consequence of JJ's action. The PPP is rotten to the core and need to be dissolved and be rebuilt from the ground up. They will have to lose for that to happen.

tHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM YOU DO NOT LISTEN!!

Vish like to tell everyone he knows better than them and in actual fact he always get beat up.

HM_R, don't get the idea that I and others like me don't have a beef with the Jagans. I for one know a number of glaring contradictions but for now I will hint at one only.

The refrain "Jagan is/was a honest politician" is a myth. He wasn't. One well-known example: he sent Joey to study in Western universities while preaching that the USSR and socialist bloc had the best education systems. That's not honesty.

I respect what you say here, Storm. And I know others think likewise. Lots of others.

Yuh touching mi heart here Gilly, I was one of the first people to publicly point out that major contradiction where Jagan ensured his children all went to western schools even his nieces and nephews but to the rest of the comrades off to cuba and russia for that top notch communist indoctrination bullshit.

Net Net I am not willing to give the Jagans a pass on anything. They should be painted for what they are a slightly pink devil.

Any way net net I think this was a good discussion and some may disagree but I think it was constructive. I liked hearing Gilly's perspective as well as others. Except pony tail he needs to stick to the curry hill bars. This shit is way to serious for his understanding.

Leslie have a pony tail?

TK stop talking SHIT.....

Did....... you examine

some of their key actions

in supporting the economic destruction of Guyana.

Before yuh run and

Kiss up to Granger and PNC?

I am like Gil..... not saying

Jagan is a Saint, Angel

or 100% Perfect....

THIS IS WHAT I SAID

Billy is a smart Goat....

I Could have said Smart Jackass..... instead of Goat...

Which Goat or Jackass can be Smart?????

If yuh Support Jagan...

Billy say he supporting Jagan

Because he fight Corruption& Thiefing in Govt 

You must Support Moses...

Moses is Doing the Same thing the Goat say Jagan Doing

But the Dishonest Goat & Donkey chose to Support

Corruption & Thiefing in the PPP Today...

Because Like Jagan....

Moses fighting Corruption & Thiefing in Govt.

Anyone Fighting Corruption & Thiefing

in Govt is doing a Good thing....

Regardless if Burnham, Hoyte, Jagdeo or Ramotar is President...

or weather it is a PNC or PPP Govt....

So What is Wrong

with Supporting Moses?

Or What is Wrong with

Fighting Corruption & Thiefing

in the PNC or PPP....

Stop thinking Like

De Goat or De Jackass...

The voters in Guyana perhaps are fed up. And the majority doan know who Moses is. On the Corentyne they may know of him. I am would think at least 80% of the ppl doan know him. Suh, how can he win an election.

For now, it is all about winning.

It appears as if the PNC faction of the APNU is heading in the direction of the PPP. And will not be surprised that CBJ jhumbie will have PPP offer critical support for the move.

That leaves the electorate without a credible choice.

Siggy, you're mistaken. Even before PPP got into government in 1992, Moses Nagamootoo was well known not only in Berbice but also in Demerara and Essequibo.

First, Moses used to write in the Mirror newspaper which PPP volunteers and vendors sold in all three counties.

Second, Moses used to enthrall people at public meetings all those places. One time I heard Jagan say Moses could sell ice in Iceland. Indeed, Moses is a charmer with excellent public speaking skills.

Mind you, Siggy, those were pre-TV days. If Moses was well known then, imagine how much more he is known now with access to TV, radio and newspaper coverage. And, don't underestimate his court performances as a lawyer. I understand he has lots of fans through his court appearances outside Georgetown.

GILLYBAKA, YOU ARE SO CORRECT.  PISS OFF TARRON YOU PNC HATER!

My drive is not only make comments on this BB. I WANT TO SEE A CHANGE IN THE GOVERNMENT.

Maybe Jagan carried Moses. Indoes are noted for clapping for anything Cheddie endorsed back then. Even if he placed a Jackass.

I doan want to move only indoes to vote for an indian person. I want a cross section of Guyanese to vote for sound leadership.

Moses has said nothing so far.

What he said and wrote in the past was for the Jagans. He never said anything for Guyanese.

The most horrendous thing the man did was to vote yes for Jagdeo's benefit package. He has no love for the people of Guyana.