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Afro-Guyanese pushing for return to village councils because NDCs have taken control

 

A section of attendees at the Village Movement Symposium held by the International Decade for People of African Descent Assembly-Guyana (IDPADA-G)

Afro-Guyanese on Sunday signaled they would be accelerating lobbying for a return to village councils because the existing local governance system has removed their ownership and direct responsibility for their villages, but the Guyana Reparations Committee said a special law is needed for land rights and local governance.

Chairman of the International Decade for People of African Descent Assembly-Guyana (IDPADA-G), Vincent Alexander told a well-attended symposium on the “Village Movement” that the time has come to invoke the country’s constitutional provision for the establishment of village councils because the Neighbourhood Democratic Council (NDC) system has taken away villages.

“By virtue of that embedding, the people of those villages have lost control over their villages and more particularly over their lands and the lands are now subject to decisions by bodies called Neighbourhood Democratic Councils, many of which are alien to the people whose fore-parents purchased those lands and the people who still reside in those villages,” said Alexander, regarded in some circles as an expert on the local government system having been an academic in the field instructing in a course on local government administration at the University of Guyana.

He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.

Alexander announced that, as part of the development of a strategic plan, countrywide consultations would include discussions on reverting to the village council system.

He noted that Guyana’s 1980 Constitution had provided for six tiers of local democracy—People’s Cooperative Units, Neighbourhood Councils, Community Councils, District Councils, sub-Regional Councils and Regional Councils—but by 1999 only the Municipal Neighbourhood Democratic Council and possibly Village Councils had been enshrined in law after a previously tabled legislation in 1990 that had never been debated or approved by the House. Alexander said those six tiers had been expected to replace Village Councils, District Councils, Municipalities and Country Councils.

Left to Right: Mary McCaskey, Dr. Melissa Ifill, Vincent Alexander, Land Survey Leon Rutherford, Eric Phillips and Economist Jason Fraser.

With the village councils having been replaced by the NDCs, the new body also took over the property rights and authority of villages. The IDPADA-G Chairman said the six-tier system had provided for villages to manage themselves if they had sufficient cash and other resources to do so.

“So you don’t give a local area everything to do just because (it) is a local (area) and you want to decentralise. You have to determine what can this local area do meaningfully because there are some services in local areas which are not localised or peculiar services,” Alexander said. He cited water supply through the East Demerara Water Conservancy because irrigation services are not provided by the village or primary schools that serve more than one village. On the other hand, he said the responsibility for lands should remain with villages.

Chairman of the Guyana Reparations Committee, Eric Phillips cautioned that if village councils were reestablished on the coastland under the Guyana Constitution,  they would run into conflicts with then NDCs over land management. He said the solution is for 18 percent of Guyana to be allocated to Afro-Guyanese and setting up of a perpetual trust, in keeping with the draft Guyana Reparations Ancestral Rights Bill that he hoped would be dispatched to the House. “I agree that village councils are critical for us but I think that a different strategic approach has to be taken if we are to achieve our goals,” he said.

He said Amerindians have more than 200 villages that are governed by Toshaos (village chiefs) in keeping with the 2006 Amerindian Act instead of the Guyana Constitution. Restating that Amerindians have already leveraged their political clout to 13.8 percent of Guyana and were seeking an additional 25 percent, he said it is clear Village Councils have been established while none has been done in Afro-Guyanese communities. “As much as the constitution states that village councils can be formed, we have been sleeping because others have formed them and others have gained the benefits of them,” he said.

Phillips said it all comes down to leadership, will and strategy to have village councils set up by having the right people with the right thinking to harness oil earnings from the Sovereign Wealth Fund for the development of a green economy. He lamented that Afro-Guyanese were not key players in the current economy and were not positioned to take advantage of the oil economy and political power. “It’s peripheral and it’s not going to get better because Guyana will now attract some of the top class firms in the world who will not only miniaturise our current private sector, much less ours, we don’t have one,” he said.

He appealed to Afro-Guyanese not to believe that they stood to benefit economically because their party was now in power. At the same time, he expressed concern that steps were not being taken to take advantage of Afro-Guyanese experts in government to craft a village-based plan. “We have all the people in Guyana who are African who can be abstracted and asked to come together to develop a strategic plan for African Guyanese that is based on villages that are managed by village councils but yet we don’t have that,” he said.

Phillips, whose African Cultural and Development Association (ACDA), had strongly objected to the structure and representation of IDPADA-G, bemoaned the presence of “all sorts of structures, all sorts of leaders” but “not the right kind” who would align themselves with governments’s policies, programmes, Sovereign Wealth Fund and renewable energy sources. He also cited the need to leverage the churches, which is the largest block of African Guyanese, by threatening the political leaders in the same way Amerindians do in the area of land acquisition.

The Reparations Committee, he said, presented government two plans in 2015 and 2016 including recommendations for African Business Councils in the 10 administrative regions, Village Movement Business Trust in each village, Village Credit Unions, and an African Think-Tank for the 10 key sectors. “It is not that we don’t know what we need to do. We have enough brilliance in Guyana among our people to solve our problems but we are disunited and not well led,” he said.

Alexander hinted at the need for a “collective approach” by IDPADA-G and the Reparations Committee or a “mutual understanding of the differences” if they persist. He stressed that IDPADA-G  is a country coordinating mechanism for the United Nations-designated decade- 2015-2014. “We are working with your organisations. We are not an organisation that stands in competition with or to your organisations. Our role is to bring all together and to try to get the community to collectively move forward,” he said.

History Professor, Melissa Ifill recalled that by 1850, 12 years after full emancipation, African Guyanese had bought a total of 16,840 acres of land on which 32,00 persons had been living. Issues that had dogged the villages for years had been unsatisfactory drainage and irrigation, sea defence, and road and bridge repairs, and discrimination in accessing loans and grants from banks and government.

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Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

V

Chairman of the Guyana Reparations Committee, Eric Phillips cautioned that if village councils were reestablished on the coastland under the Guyana Constitution,  they would run into conflicts with then NDCs over land management. He said the solution is for 18 percent of Guyana to be allocated to Afro-Guyanese and setting up of a perpetual trust, in keeping with the draft Guyana Reparations Ancestral Rights Bill that he hoped would be dispatched to the House. 

He said Amerindians have more than 200 villages that are governed by Toshaos (village chiefs) in keeping with the 2006 Amerindian Act instead of the Guyana Constitution. Restating that Amerindians have already leveraged their political clout to 13.8 percent of Guyana and were seeking an additional 25 percent, he said it is clear Village Councils have been established while none has been done in Afro-Guyanese communities.

 

Where did 18% come from? Why not ask for 25%?

jes asking

V

Gud if they want village council, but each village council taxes must only be spend for the said neighbourhood.

That’s when they will know where barley is growing”. .. what your thought about this, Django... I man see you run from this thread. 

FM
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

i’m not on board with this reparations waste-of-time stuff

but why are you making things up and spray painting them as ‘questions’ to create fake ‘realities’ for spurious conversations pitting Afro-Guyanese against Indos and Amerindians?

invidious much?

smfh

FM
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

i’m not on board with this reparations waste-of-time stuff

but why are you making things up and spray painting them as ‘questions’ to create fake ‘realities’ for spurious conversations pitting Afro-Guyanese against Indos and Amerindians?

invidious much?

smfh

Bana....before you start swinging the censor hatchet...

YOU not being "on board"...does not mean this plan has not picked up steam..Eric Phillips hair-brained scheme, with borrowed ideas from Professor Hilary Beckles... is alive with credible government supporters..

It is being peddled by an influential and credible organization, a UG professor who is a close advisor to the President, and a GECOM apparatchik with an infatuation for Burnhamism....

...President Granger himself is fully on board...though he understands the racial implications...I suspect...for he sanctioned a commission to look into the land issue a few years back...

Invidious? no

Perfidious? yes   

V

Hey hey hey...dem one love social cohesion PNC bais seh how coolie squat pon dem land and tek it way...hey hey hey. Phillips and he ACDA gang doan know head fram foot and dem want back de Guysuco land. Now it mekkin sense why Granger dem was willing to shut down Guysuco. Hey hey hey. Dem bais seh how coolie rich...hey hey hey.

FM

If this is where Guyana is heading, then this country need to brace itself for more racial divisions.

The government may do well to invest that oil money into small business enterprises, providing 21st century training and skills for a high tech industry, creating a managerial staff (rather than leaving this up to GECOM, which will contribute towards further exploitation and dependency), and finding ways to create a more professional public service, etc...

Credible leaders, even those in the PNC, should condemn this move...

V
Dave posted:

Gud if they want village council, but each village council taxes must only be spend for the said neighbourhood.

That’s when they will know where barley is growing”. .. what your thought about this, Django... I man see you run from this thread. 

I doan worry with Philips and his theory of reparations.

The best managed African village is in WCD, it's combined with two neighboring villages to become an NDC. No one complaining, he should go and learn a thing or two from them.

Django
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

i’m not on board with this reparations waste-of-time stuff

but why are you making things up and spray painting them as ‘questions’ to create fake ‘realities’ for spurious conversations pitting Afro-Guyanese against Indos and Amerindians?

invidious much?

smfh

Bana....before you start swinging the censor hatchet...

YOU not being "on board"...does not mean this plan has not picked up steam..Eric Phillips hair-brained scheme, with borrowed ideas from Professor Hilary Beckles... is alive with credible government supporters..

It is being peddled by an influential and credible organization, a UG professor who is a close advisor to the President, and a GECOM apparatchik with an infatuation for Burnhamism....

...President Granger himself is fully on board...though he understands the racial implications...I suspect...for he sanctioned a commission to look into the land issue a few years back...

Invidious? no

Perfidious? yes   

first, go ask someone literate what the word “censor” means . . . you apparently have no clue but like the more ignorant posting here you feel the compulsion to bray about the subject anyhow

now, please explain what exactly in this “plan” of Eric Philips and crew speaks to a scheme for taking away land from Amerindians and Indians and giving it to Afro-Guyanese

worse, that President Granger is “fully on board” with this PROVOCATIVE and WICKED LIE

btw, what on earth does “Burnhamism” have to do with ACDA’s push for reparations? . . . other than a ploy to infect underinformed Indo-Guyanese with race anxiety and avoid proper scrutiny of your nonsense

labba is another malign, ethnic ‘fabricationist’  . . . a race arsonist with a plan posting here as he pretends with a Janus face in polite society elsewhere

yes VishMahabir, i have taken note of your periodic, ‘shaming’ exhortations for Indo-Guyanese to overthrow the elected Coalition Government by violent means

this pattern of BIG lying and radical race-baiting will bear bitter fruit one day

i sincerely hope you are around, there and then, to reap the dutty harvest

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:

btw, what on earth does “Burnhamism” have to do with ACDA’s push for reparations? . . . other than a ploy to infect underinformed Indo-Guyanese with race anxiety and avoid proper scrutiny of your nonsense

labba is another malign, ethnic ‘fabricationist’  . . . a race arsonist with a plan posting here as he pretends with a Janus face in polite society elsewhere

yes VishMahabir, i have taken note of your periodic, ‘shaming’ exhortations for Indo-Guyanese to overthrow the elected Coalition Government by violent means

this pattern of BIG lying and radical race-baiting will bear bitter fruit one day

i sincerely hope you are around, there and then, to reap the dutty harvest

Rowie...how much land yuh want bai?  See dem PNC bais and gyals get nuff land from Jagdoe and dem cryin marginalise. Even Eric musse get he small piece. Hey hey hey...

FM
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

Me na need no reparation rass...me does sell nuff cane juice and peppahs. Hey hey hey...

FM
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

 

Bana....before you start swinging the censor hatchet...

YOU not being "on board"...does not mean this plan has not picked up steam..Eric Phillips hair-brained scheme, with borrowed ideas from Professor Hilary Beckles... is alive with credible government supporters..

It is being peddled by an influential and credible organization, a UG professor who is a close advisor to the President, and a GECOM apparatchik with an infatuation for Burnhamism....

...President Granger himself is fully on board...though he understands the racial implications...I suspect...for he sanctioned a commission to look into the land issue a few years back...

Invidious? no

Perfidious? yes   

first, go ask someone literate what the word “censor” means . . . you apparently have no clue but like the more ignorant posting here you feel the compulsion to bray about the subject anyhow

 

Banna,

...you are at your finest with your gifted oratorical constructs when you take on the Indo “shakebatty”

…please explain what exactly in this “plan” of Eric Philips and crew speaks to a scheme for taking away land from Amerindians and Indians and giving it to Afro-Guyanese…

I simply ask a question...based on the comments of the members of the Village Movement Symposium...

Now,  you are being coy…or you know more than you care to let out...

Perhaps you can explain this statement for us simpletons and lesser mortals...:

He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.

Do your research…Phillips has been very vocal about his plans….start by reading this news article above..

On Granger:

Land Rights Commission sworn in -President urges Commissioners to take mandate seriously

https://motp.gov.gy/index.php/...ke-mandate-seriously

AND...when you done...explain how with a demographically small population like Guyana, with land galore for everyone..how this kind of brazen and idle talk is going to promote SOCIAL COHESION...in a country already on the brink...

V
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Are they saying that Reparations include taking away land from Amerindians and Indos?

Furthermore...given Alexander's statements ...are they really going to oversee and election that will result in the PNC losing...a la Freddie Kissoon...

Indos and Amerindians should be alarmed at this ... and they should seek to prioritize their own interests...

 

Bana....before you start swinging the censor hatchet...

YOU not being "on board"...does not mean this plan has not picked up steam..Eric Phillips hair-brained scheme, with borrowed ideas from Professor Hilary Beckles... is alive with credible government supporters..

It is being peddled by an influential and credible organization, a UG professor who is a close advisor to the President, and a GECOM apparatchik with an infatuation for Burnhamism....

...President Granger himself is fully on board...though he understands the racial implications...I suspect...for he sanctioned a commission to look into the land issue a few years back...

Invidious? no

Perfidious? yes   

first, go ask someone literate what the word “censor” means . . . you apparently have no clue but like the more ignorant posting here you feel the compulsion to bray about the subject anyhow

 

Banna,

...you are at your finest with your gifted oratorical constructs when you take on the Indo “shakebatty”

…please explain what exactly in this “plan” of Eric Philips and crew speaks to a scheme for taking away land from Amerindians and Indians and giving it to Afro-Guyanese…

I simply ask a question...based on the comments of the members of the Village Movement Symposium...

Now,  you are being coy…or you know more than you care to let out...

Perhaps you can explain this statement for us simpletons and lesser mortals...:

He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.

Do your research…Phillips has been very vocal about his plans….start by reading this news article above..

On Granger:

Land Rights Commission sworn in -President urges Commissioners to take mandate seriously

https://motp.gov.gy/index.php/...ke-mandate-seriously

AND...when you done...explain how with a demographically small population like Guyana, with land galore for everyone..how this kind of brazen and idle talk is going to promote SOCIAL COHESION...in a country already on the brink...

you are right about Phillips on every point stated. He is toxic. He is a liar, a revisionist and sell his faux history with the conviction of a saint poisoning the minds of good people.  Hardly anything he says stands up to criticism. 

FM

Sounds like partition. I say let the Blacks choose their borders and leh the ppl get on wid their lives. Getting their share of Guyana in different locations is a recipe for strife. They deserve their land and the assurance of having a homogenous society that gaurantees a representative government of their population. If Eric Phiips wants anything in Guyana he will get it, the country does not have a nationalist aspiration.

S
VishMahabir posted:

Perhaps you can explain this statement ...:

He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.

Do your research…Phillips has been very vocal about his plans….start by reading this news article above.

the “statement” causing so much tsuris and ignorant commentary by you and others light-thinking here is a claim that majority-rule decision making by NDCs where Afro villages are a minority results in discrimination by the Indo-dominated councils

it is a call for devolution of powers so that neglect can be mitigated

this may not be practical or sensible, but it is hardly an appeal to disposses  Indo-Guyanese

learn to read, STUDY and properly digest big-people material like a responsible adult before opening your trap, doing a fine imitation of an unthinking, excited schoolgirl . . . making a complete jackass of yourself

his plans” . . . huh?

what on earth is wrong with you people?

smfh

FM
Last edited by Former Member

For the East Indian and Dougla people of Guyana this is the most dangerous article I have ever read on Gn&I. It signals the future ahead. Our only workable solution is for the peaceful creation of an independent sovereign country.

Prashad
Last edited by Prashad

Hey hey hey...Phillips seh how he want 18% land foh he peopkle. Hehehe...hey hey hey. De problem is de whole coast where de slaveing happen is less dan 5% of Guyana. Den yuh gat dem Indos gat a tiny fraction...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get .

FM
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

FM
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

Nah...is dem ACDA aka PNC social cohesion/one love bais who seh dat coolie NDC a oppress dem. Hey hey hey...a juss mekkin fun of dem jokers like Phillips...ahem...Doctor Phillips...hey hey hey. Suh when dem plannin foh chase dem Indos into de Atlantic? Hey hey hey...

FM
Labba posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

Nah...is dem ACDA aka PNC social cohesion/one love bais who seh dat coolie NDC a oppress dem. Hey hey hey...a juss mekkin fun of dem jokers like Phillips...ahem...Doctor Phillips...hey hey hey. Suh when dem plannin foh chase dem Indos into de Atlantic? Hey hey hey...

soooo, Black people complaining that Indo-led NDCs are discriminating against Afro villages is now a call to “chase dem Indos into de Atlantic” . . . hmmmm ?

alyuh race baiting become such a normal part of alyuh discourse that even off the rails none of y’all does even pause, much less say “whoa”!! 

how many ways can we measure contempt bai?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

I want to know where he lied. This land commission and the advocacy of Phillips is wha will put a wedge between Amerindians and Granger. He thinks he can take the hit because he is completely disinterested in our concerns.

Philips said the Wai Wais and Wapishans are interlopers. He said Blacks are the original settlers of the new world so they are the indigenous . He claimed Amerinds got all the land they should get and actually deserved less. He advocates shutting down land demarcation. The Granger seems to agree and  shut down the land titling process. He also  linked native land rights with the supposed  loss of black people of their villages. Indians get the blame here.

The idea of some village system that managed black lives better than a democratic system is bull crap. Indians similarly have visions of the perfect village system or the panchayat that could act to rehabilitate Indian cultures and I say bunk to that as well. We do not want to step backward but forward. We do not want to create bantustans but a democratic society. Where there are unfair advantages afforded one group we can coerce consensus by providing the disadvantaged group with a minority veto.

Lots of things can be done other selling these imagined systems of a bygone time when black people gained paramount governing in their lives and it was a "village" system. This is  revisionist a false history, a kind of fantasy to gain imagined homelands that black people deserve.

FM
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

I want to know where he lied. This land commission and the advocacy of Phillips is wha will put a wedge between Amerindians and Granger. He thinks he can take the hit because he is completely disinterested in our concerns.

Philips said the Wai Wais and Wapishans are interlopers. He said Blacks are the original settlers of the new world so they are the indigenous . He claimed Amerinds got all the land they should get and actually deserved less. He advocates shutting down land demarcation. The Granger seems to agree and  shut down the land titling process. He also  linked native land rights with the supposed  loss of black people of their villages. Indians get the blame here.

The idea of some village system that managed black lives better than a democratic system is bull crap. Indians similarly have visions of the perfect village system or the panchayat that could act to rehabilitate Indian cultures and I say bunk to that as well. We do not want to step backward but forward. We do not want to create bantustans but a democratic society. Where there are unfair advantages afforded one group we can coerce consensus by providing the disadvantaged group with a minority veto.

Lots of things can be done other selling these imagined systems of a bygone time when black people gained paramount governing in their lives and it was a "village" system. This is  revisionist a false history, a kind of fantasy to gain imagined homelands that black people deserve.

Yea...deh fake fake history. Pack a jokers. Me see Phillips dey quoting some bogus anthropologist who seh nuff Amerindian was not there befo blackman...den dem gat a good set of blackman who come to Guyana after slavery as indenture...hey hey hey. Me start crack up when be hear what "Doctor" Phillips seh...hey hey hey. Now dem blaming Indos. When dem get de land and abie get more Globe Trust...is more blame foh Indos...hey hey hey. De PNC Globe Truss big wig dem drink 15 year ole and red wine and cognac on de poor black people money and cause de bank foh fail. Guess who dem blame? PPP coolie 

De whole idea dat blackman can prosper economic is crazy without de bigger market. Abie need everybady foh buy from everybody. Dem study fake histry. Dem would know betta if dem read Rodney. Hey hey hey...Imagine if two coolie people deh seh what Phillips and ACDA aka PNC deh seh bout blackman. De sky would fall down by now and Snowie Rowie and CaribJ would be full blass. Hey hey hey. 

FM
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

Ah right here bro...and ah movin on too because there is nothing here for me to learn...

Your defense of these race-baiters (Philips et al) only shows where your loyalty lies and it exposing your “slip”...Guyana belongs to everyone...not this dysfunctional lot on a grand scheme to empower themselves at the expense of their other brothers and sisters because "reparations must come at what cost" or because "we were robbed and suffered more"

...these protagonists fully know (and so do you!) that those in opposition are not in a position to object to their facetious plan...so they keep marching on like soldiers...   

Aside from Philips, Guyanese should take a closer look at the actions of Vincent Alexander (who has taken on the responsibility of keeping Burnham legacy alive), now in cahoots with Eric, and who sits on GECOM...I suspect there are much broader implications here...

Now to you....your usually non-biased neutral trite designed to “bring sense to the lot here” is now in serious jeopardy…you have  metamorphosed into the race-haters you rightfully complain about...except that you are on the opposite side of the coin...

we watching you too...

V
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

Ah right here bro...and ah movin on too because there is nothing here for me to learn...

Your defense of these race-baiters (Philips et al) only shows where your loyalty lies and it exposing your “slip”...Guyana belongs to everyone...not this dysfunctional lot on a grand scheme to empower themselves at the expense of their other brothers and sisters because "reparations must come at what cost" or because "we were robbed and suffered more"

...these protagonists fully know (and so do you!) that those in opposition are not in a position to object to their facetious plan...so they keep marching on like soldiers...   

Aside from Philips, Guyanese should take a closer look at the actions of Vincent Alexander (who has taken on the responsibility of keeping Burnham legacy alive), now in cahoots with Eric, and who sits on GECOM...I suspect there are much broader implications here...

Now to you....your usually non-biased neutral trite designed to “bring sense to the lot here” is now in serious jeopardy…you have  metamorphosed into the race-haters you rightfully complain about...except that you are on the opposite side of the coin...

we watching you too...

long ass diatribe in non sequitur land about ACDA ‘personalities’ and their failings to cover your LIARD, race-baiting tracks

you refute NOTHING i posted! . . . babbling inanely about “plan”

simply embarrassed getting caught with yuh panties down

suh g’wan dahside with yuh EXPOSED, ignar, mealy-mouthed self

FM
Labba posted:
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

I want to know where he lied. This land commission and the advocacy of Phillips is wha will put a wedge between Amerindians and Granger. He thinks he can take the hit because he is completely disinterested in our concerns.

Philips said the Wai Wais and Wapishans are interlopers. He said Blacks are the original settlers of the new world so they are the indigenous . He claimed Amerinds got all the land they should get and actually deserved less. He advocates shutting down land demarcation. The Granger seems to agree and  shut down the land titling process. He also  linked native land rights with the supposed  loss of black people of their villages. Indians get the blame here.

The idea of some village system that managed black lives better than a democratic system is bull crap. Indians similarly have visions of the perfect village system or the panchayat that could act to rehabilitate Indian cultures and I say bunk to that as well. We do not want to step backward but forward. We do not want to create bantustans but a democratic society. Where there are unfair advantages afforded one group we can coerce consensus by providing the disadvantaged group with a minority veto.

Lots of things can be done other selling these imagined systems of a bygone time when black people gained paramount governing in their lives and it was a "village" system. This is  revisionist a false history, a kind of fantasy to gain imagined homelands that black people deserve.

Yea...deh fake fake history. Pack a jokers. Me see Phillips dey quoting some bogus anthropologist who seh nuff Amerindian was not there befo blackman...den dem gat a good set of blackman who come to Guyana after slavery as indenture...hey hey hey. Me start crack up when be hear what "Doctor" Phillips seh...hey hey hey. Now dem blaming Indos. When dem get de land and abie get more Globe Trust...is more blame foh Indos...hey hey hey. De PNC Globe Truss big wig dem drink 15 year ole and red wine and cognac on de poor black people money and cause de bank foh fail. Guess who dem blame? PPP coolie 

De whole idea dat blackman can prosper economic is crazy without de bigger market. Abie need everybady foh buy from everybody. Dem study fake histry. Dem would know betta if dem read Rodney. Hey hey hey...Imagine if two coolie people deh seh what Phillips and ACDA aka PNC deh seh bout blackman. De sky would fall down by now and Snowie Rowie and CaribJ would be full blass. Hey hey hey. 

all dis scattershot buse down of people i doan know juss because i point out alyuh race bait reflex

oh my

FM

 Ronan, did ACDA refuse an interview  with you. 

I believe you are on GNI to air your flowery words, as no other forum give a crap about your opinions and wants listen to your part of speech. 

FM
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

I want to know where he lied. This land commission and the advocacy of Phillips is wha will put a wedge between Amerindians and Granger. He thinks he can take the hit because he is completely disinterested in our concerns.

Philips said the Wai Wais and Wapishans are interlopers. He said Blacks are the original settlers of the new world so they are the indigenous . He claimed Amerinds got all the land they should get and actually deserved less. He advocates shutting down land demarcation. The Granger seems to agree and  shut down the land titling process. He also  linked native land rights with the supposed  loss of black people of their villages. Indians get the blame here.

The idea of some village system that managed black lives better than a democratic system is bull crap. Indians similarly have visions of the perfect village system or the panchayat that could act to rehabilitate Indian cultures and I say bunk to that as well. We do not want to step backward but forward. We do not want to create bantustans but a democratic society. Where there are unfair advantages afforded one group we can coerce consensus by providing the disadvantaged group with a minority veto.

Lots of things can be done other selling these imagined systems of a bygone time when black people gained paramount governing in their lives and it was a "village" system. This is  revisionist a false history, a kind of fantasy to gain imagined homelands that black people deserve.

this thread is NOT about the Land Commission and the Granger stupidity in not setting it up as a stand alone

the reporting on the reparations pow wow that is the subject of our discussion here addressed ONLY the village council/NDC issue and complaints related thereto

you have a lot of nerve to come here with the RECORD flush in your face and ask about LIE!!?

VishMahabir, with a dash of smartman ‘question’ jiu jitsu, reified the absurd and DANGEROUS FALSEHOOD that the reparations conference articulated a plan or suggested intent to take land away from Indos and Amerindians and give it to Afro-Guyanese

he then doubled down on the BIG LIE, descending further into the stinking race bait sewer, averring that President Granger was “fully on board” with this “plan” to dispossess a majority of Guyanese and transfer the spoils to his African ‘tribe’

you co-sign this sh!t

tell your ‘student’ friend that there is NO “neutral” for me when confronting racist EVIL

nothing more needs to be said

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:
VishMahabir posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

Ah right here bro...and ah movin on too because there is nothing here for me to learn...

Your defense of these race-baiters (Philips et al) only shows where your loyalty lies and it exposing your “slip”...Guyana belongs to everyone...not this dysfunctional lot on a grand scheme to empower themselves at the expense of their other brothers and sisters because "reparations must come at what cost" or because "we were robbed and suffered more"

...these protagonists fully know (and so do you!) that those in opposition are not in a position to object to their facetious plan...so they keep marching on like soldiers...   

Aside from Philips, Guyanese should take a closer look at the actions of Vincent Alexander (who has taken on the responsibility of keeping Burnham legacy alive), now in cahoots with Eric, and who sits on GECOM...I suspect there are much broader implications here...

Now to you....your usually non-biased neutral trite designed to “bring sense to the lot here” is now in serious jeopardy…you have  metamorphosed into the race-haters you rightfully complain about...except that you are on the opposite side of the coin...

we watching you too...

long ass diatribe in non sequitur land about ACDA ‘personalities’ and their failings to cover your LIARD, race-baiting tracks

you refute NOTHING i posted! . . . babbling inanely about “plan”

simply embarrassed getting caught with yuh panties down

suh g’wan dahside with yuh EXPOSED, ignar, mealy-mouthed self

You need to step out of that bubble...too much CO2 not good for you.

V
ronan posted:
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Labba posted:

 Hehehe...hey hey hey ...like dem one love bais from PNC aka ACDA want drive dem coolie peopkle in de Atlantic. Me wonder how much land green salipenta and Snowie will get.

VishMahabir done get he feet cut off from under him on this thread after posting a bundle of lies and racist provocation

while he getting fitted with prostheses for his stumps, you find it amusing to come here and register your contempt for Black people

carry on

I want to know where he lied. This land commission and the advocacy of Phillips is wha will put a wedge between Amerindians and Granger. He thinks he can take the hit because he is completely disinterested in our concerns.

Philips said the Wai Wais and Wapishans are interlopers. He said Blacks are the original settlers of the new world so they are the indigenous . He claimed Amerinds got all the land they should get and actually deserved less. He advocates shutting down land demarcation. The Granger seems to agree and  shut down the land titling process. He also  linked native land rights with the supposed  loss of black people of their villages. Indians get the blame here.

The idea of some village system that managed black lives better than a democratic system is bull crap. Indians similarly have visions of the perfect village system or the panchayat that could act to rehabilitate Indian cultures and I say bunk to that as well. We do not want to step backward but forward. We do not want to create bantustans but a democratic society. Where there are unfair advantages afforded one group we can coerce consensus by providing the disadvantaged group with a minority veto.

Lots of things can be done other selling these imagined systems of a bygone time when black people gained paramount governing in their lives and it was a "village" system. This is  revisionist a false history, a kind of fantasy to gain imagined homelands that black people deserve.

this thread is NOT about the Land Commission and the Granger stupidity in not setting it up as a stand alone

the reporting on the reparations pow wow that is the subject of our discussion here addressed ONLY the village council/NDC issue and complaints related thereto

you have a lot of nerve to come here with the RECORD flush in your face and ask about LIE!!?

VishMahabir, with a dash of smartman ‘question’ jiu jitsu, reified the absurd and DANGEROUS FALSEHOOD that the reparations conference articulated a plan or suggested intent to take land away from Indos and Amerindians and give it to Afro-Guyanese

he then doubled down on the BIG LIE, descending further into the stinking race bait sewer, averring that President Granger was “fully on board” with this “plan” to dispossess a majority of Guyanese and transfer the spoils to his African ‘tribe’

you co-sign this sh!t

tell your ‘student’ friend that there is NO “neutral” for me when confronting racist EVIL

nothing more needs to be said

First, I or my people do not owe Africans reparations. The british owe them that. Sue the Brits. There can be no retroactive reallocation of the land space to appropriate or apportion it such that some part of it is reparations to African loss. Britain, did not make any such agreement when it give all of the people independence as equal subjects ( oppressed as we were). We became co equal owners of the communal space once held by Britain. Insisting retroactively that the citizens of the state must pay grievance wages to Africans from our current national bequeathment is untenable

 BTW Britain did make an agreement with the Dutch to honor all treaties and claims they made with Amerindians. And Britain did make contingent with Independence, the rights of Amerindians to their land claims. Anex C of the independence agreement details that special consideration prior to the founding of the state.

You said he lie. I asked where. I think he is completely on the mark with Philips and anyone else  who asks for a bounty to be place on our collective heads for injustices done to Africans during slavery. The idea that it could be removed from as a burden of the brits and be asked of the rest of us as restorative justice to Africans is atrocious  and unjust. Any such suggestion/advocacy/demands are to be met head on acknowledged for what it is;  political  a shakedown.

I am not flush in the face or elsewhere about anything. Phillips is to us Amerindians a malignant tumor threatening to metastasize via the the dangerous memes about African indigeneity,  that Amerindians have already been awarded their due and  that we collectively owe Africans. That is the lie that matters.

Granger...unilaterally dissolved the land titling protocol. ( and it was not a financial cost to the state). He then associated it with the Ancestral rights claims of ACDA. That is the reason Shuman decided to enter the political arena and the reason Amerindians should be wary of what a Granger government entails. Remember he met with 30 or more heads of state including the queen and let more than two years into his tenure stream by without meeting the Amerindian council. I have no qualms to say he is not trustworthy to us.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Stormborn posted:

First, I or my people do not owe Africans reparations. The british owe them that. Sue the Brits. There can be no retroactive reallocation of the land space to appropriate or apportion it such that some part of it is reparations to African loss. Britain, did not make any such agreement when it give all of the people independence as equal subjects ( oppressed as we were). We became co equal owners of the communal space once held by Britain. Insisting retroactively that the citizens of the state must pay grievance wages to Africans from our current national bequeathment is untenable

 BTW Britain did make an agreement with the Dutch to honor all treaties and claims they made with Amerindians. And Britain did make contingent with Independence, the rights of Amerindians to their land claims. Anex C of the independence agreement details that special consideration prior to the founding of the state.

You said he lie. I asked where. I think he is completely on the mark with Philips . . .

i agree with you that no Guyanese owes African-Guyanese reparations

i am not a 21st Century supporter of reparations for African slavery

so, what of it . . . what exactly are you tilting at, in context?

my takedown of VishMahabir and his lies had NOTHING to do with the merit(s) of such an assertion . . . and you bloody well know that!

this is a diversionary issue that does not belong on this thread

let me re-direct, again . . . i said he lied about what was tabled at the conference, he lied about what was presented and the presenters, and he lied about President Granger

to hijack and pretend that this is about the character and politics of Eric Philips is pure scampishness and the coward move of someone who ignorantly inserted himself into a conversation where he had no business, and painted himself into a corner with no ego-satisfying means of retreat

i suppose your next move will be to regale us with a detailed history of Amerindian settlement in Guyana rebutting “Eric Philips” in furtherance of this dance towards a change of subject

strawman tactics for idiots

smfh

FM

Tell me what he lied about.  And I do not mind elaborating on our history pre 1492 to now.

I do not wish to change any subject. I would gladly entertain your grievance if you let me know them. You said the fellow lied about a few things. I still wondered what it is.

Philips has said more than once Indians stole Village land the commission is to find a solution. There can only be one...find those scoundrel Indians and take back the land! He advocate denying Wai Wai and Wapishans land rights because they are interlopers. I guess to do that  you have to take back what was allocated to them. As I said, Granger shut down the land titling process. Means he is on board.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Stormborn posted:

Tell me what he lied about.  And I do not mind elaborating on our history pre 1492 to now.

I do not wish to change any subject. I would gladly entertain your grievance if you let me know them. You said the fellow lied about a few things. I still wondered what it is.

Philips has said more than once Indians stole Village land the commission is to find a solution. There can only be one...find those scoundrel Indians and take back the land! He advocate denying Wai Wai and Wapishans land rights because they are interlopers. I guess to do that  you have to take back what was allocated to them. As I said, Granger shut down the land titling process. Means he is on board.

Is not only "doctor" Phillips seh Indo tek black peopkle land. Dem big high up man like Greenidge seh de same ting 

FM
Stormborn posted:

Tell me what he lied about.

again, he lied about the agenda and what was reported at the reparations conference . . . even [re]posted the reporting and boldly challenged me to READ it

reality step in after i pointed out what a jackass he was in his misinterpretation, and then he shut up

i am not revealing anything you don’t already know  . . . one just needs to peruse the early postings on this thread

now banna tek a seat and stop wasting my time

FM
Labba posted:

Is not only "doctor" Phillips seh Indo tek black peopkle land. Dem big high up man like Greenidge seh de same ting 

i am assuming that this is a separate matter, a legal matter?, external to “reparations” or NDC discrimination or Amerindian land titling . . . rite?

keep peltin alyuh scrapings from de Indo/Blackman sore bai, something gotta stick sometime

the calculus at Freedom House still predicts a net benefit i understand

i’m sure there is plenty more in yuh ‘contempt’ calabash where that pus-laden shyte came from

smfh

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:
Stormborn posted:

Tell me what he lied about.

again, he lied about the agenda and what was reported at the reparations conference . . . even [re]posted the reporting and boldly challenged me to READ it

reality step in after i pointed out what a jackass he was in his misinterpretation, and then he shut up

i am not revealing anything you don’t already know  . . . one just needs to peruse the early postings on this thread

now banna tek a seat and stop wasting my time

You are wasting your time not me. I am hard press to find any distortions from the stated agenda. ...get land...indians stole some....establish a mythical "village system" because Amerindians used it to get land ( ignorant peddling of nonsense). Phillips represents a beehive of vengeful malevolence and his focus is   on Indians and Amerindians as the bane of his mythical plans.

Also, I never sit unless I so decide

FM
Stormborn posted:
ronan posted:
Stormborn posted:

Tell me what he lied about.

again, he lied about the agenda and what was reported at the reparations conference . . . even [re]posted the reporting and boldly challenged me to READ it

reality step in after i pointed out what a jackass he was in his misinterpretation, and then he shut up

i am not revealing anything you don’t already know  . . . one just needs to peruse the early postings on this thread

now banna tek a seat and stop wasting my time

You are wasting your time not me. I am hard press to find any distortions from the stated agenda. ...get land...indians stole some....establish a mythical "village system" because Amerindians used it to get land ( ignorant peddling of nonsense). Phillips represents a beehive of vengeful malevolence and his focus is   on Indians and Amerindians as the bane of his mythical plans.

Also, I never sit unless I so decide

awwww shaddup and [decide to] sit your butt down senor wandering all ova de place not-so-clever

the below was Vishmahabir’s ‘challenge’ to me that properly opened him up to deserved ridicule:

Vish: Perhaps you can explain this statement for us simpletons and lesser mortals...:”

“He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.”

not smart picking up fire rage for the wrong people and being left to twist in the wind by the initiator who recognized long ago that he simply cannot defend his shyte

you now left to generate endless smoke to camouflage wan desperate and stupid ego-deflating situation

memo: - hollering loud and in earnest “but i despise Eric Philips” is not a winning argument

smfh

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:
Stormborn posted:
 

awwww shaddup and [decide to] sit your butt down senor wandering all ova de place not-so-clever

the below was Vishmahabir’s ‘challenge’ to me that properly opened him up to deserved ridicule:

Vish: Perhaps you can explain this statement for us simpletons and lesser mortals...:”

“He explained that the NDC system has resulted in the control of lands being put in the hands of Indo-Guyanese through the NDCs that span several villages. “The problem is in terms of control. Those lands have gone out of the control of people of African descent because the village has now been located in a local authority that is dominated by people of Indian descent so the Council is not reflective of the village. It is reflective of a wide area that now makes decisions for a village which has things that are peculiar to that village so the system is discriminatory, it’s ill-conceived, it’s wrong in so many various ways and it is because of that wrongness that we are assembled here to see how we could address that wrong,” he said.”

not smart picking up fire rage for the wrong people and being left to twist in the wind by the initiator who recognized long ago that he simply cannot defend his shyte

you now left to generate endless smoke to camouflage wan desperate and stupid ego-deflating situation

memo: - hollering loud and in earnest “but i despise Eric Philips” is not a winning argument

smfh

Storm...

you better off not responding sometimes...

Ronan has an oratorical gift, far outmatching anyone here...

But in his world view the PNC and their supporters must be defended at all costs, he has a fetish for "racial issues" and when he is not obfuscating, he resorts to belittling and cussin...not unlike the people he rails against here...

He fully well knows what we are saying...

 

V
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