Excellent. Love it.

Shaitaan, you need to get out more . . . but somehow i suspect that is not your real problem

now, what exactly did David Hinds say here that is "most brilliant" and "most erudite"??

he asks us not to discount or scorn the racial fears and resulting actions of ordinary people because we prefer a higher plane of discourse, especially if those racial fears are grounded in history and experience

that's a no-brainer

oversell much?

I know.

I listened intently.

Thinking I missed something and overlooked parts of my country's history.

Allow me to identify some pointers for the two of you:

1. Don't vote based on race.

2. Don't ignore ethnocentricity.

3. Embrace diversity.

4. Don't indulge in the over-used race-based politics.

If you've been reading this forum you'd see the relevance.

dude, if you have something sensible to contribute, by all means . . .

don't post trite shyte on the thread just to try and sound important

He is not talking to me since I defend many of his views here. He was cussed off t his board for saying the same thing in his defense of power sharing over a decade ago. Indeed race matters but I disagree with him that it is only known by the man at the bottom of the totem pole ( where 80 % of Guyanese are) and the middle class misses it. To compartmentalize it that way misses the point  that if it is economic and cultural as well as political it kicks all of us in the gut who are on the receiving end via any of these vectors albeit differentially. Also, for it to be ethnicity plus power equal racism when use differentially to benefit one class ( usually the powerful class) it means that the powerful knows it and uses it against their competition who are elites like themselves ie you and me. Racism affects all whatever position they hold when it is a tool of oppression via differential treatment due to pregudice

Oh wow.. I hope someday to be able to contribute with such sensibleness as your response. Is this what I should emulate to not just try and sound important?

Wheel and come again.

Redux is unable to advance ideas of his own, or to rebut ideas by advancing an alternative.

His idea is to go on personal attack like a pit bull.

Shaitaan Hinds speaks to racism by the PPP.  He speaks to the editorial by that PPP organ which engaged in the lowest form of bigotry towards Afro Guyanese.

So are you now willing to admit that the PPP displays the same racism towards Afro Guyanese that the PNC does, and like the PNC, deliberately engaged in various harassment tactics.

If you didn't get that part then all you did was to selectively listen to what suited your agenda.

David Hinds is among those outspoken Afro Guyanese, who has spoken out against the racism directed to them by the PPP and by Indo elites, and he has been THREATENED and demonized as a result by the PPP and elements like the Guyana Times.

Ask Ramotar and Jagdeo what they think of David Hinds, and their response will be that he is a black racist resentful of a "coolie" government!

Blacks do not know a whole lot about Indians and Indians don't know enough about Blacks. Hinds is separatist - he only sees Black. He knows why the Indian government discriminate against blacks. And he feels that blacks must vote for blacks and Indians must vote for Indian-it not a racists thing, because of culture . And he support an Indian as his leader in the WPA.

Suh, the solution is to divide the country.

Good Point. The Caribj and Hinds of this World has ONE agenda:  NO INDIAN MUST RULE GUYANA,

Hinds spoke lengthily about the Indian anxiety and lambasted those who ridicule it.

Your issue is that he also speaks of the African anxiety, and most non blacks just don't think that black people should have any rights.  You obviously being one of them.  Blacks in your view should remain silent in the face of racism. If they speak up they are being separatist. 

I am assured that you didn't think that Indian silence in the face of harassment at the hands of the Burnham regime would have been an appropriate response.

You are talking crap. That is your agenda since you think Hinds et al are black and by definition unworthy. You obviously did not read what the man said and argue against his opinions. You are into this stupid one liners with no input to the subject matter as usual

Lionel....lets be real. You are the separatist not Dr hinds. Do you remember your proposal here for a party on separatism? Well I still do. Hinds never took any notion as you have. He has said he is concerned with African "upliftment" and I do not see anything wrong with that

Really? this is your experience?  

FACTS BABY FACTS!!  HUFF AND PUFFALL YOU WANT!!!

Why don't you stop being a punk and actually say something truly factual rather than you made up crap. I do not care much about what you say. That answer above was merely to push the thread so others can see it.

There is no Black/Indian problem in Guyana. People like Hinds want to make it that way, especially at Election Time to promote their Agenda.

There is no black indian problem as long as coolie in power. Switch it around and watch you scream racism. Actually, as luck will have it that is only a month away.

I lived the 28 YEARS of HORROR and did not screAm RACISM, I WILL ALWAYS SCREAM PNC NO GOOD FOR GUYANA!!!!

bullcrap....you cry racism daily here when you speak about "not PNC". 

iF THAT IS WAHT YOU UNDERSTAND, BE MY GUEST.  i WILL always SPEAK OF THE evil OF THE pnc,  facts baby facts!!!

Well, leh me deal wid this wan. I go to a Nigerian church(RCCG). In that church there are several black guyanese. I being the only Indian in the church. Two weeks ago, the West Indian church in the area had a concert. I did not attend but my black guyanese church members went. So I inquired how was it. The man replied, "it was good, they had a steel band playing." Then he added, "you being an Indian might know about steel band." The chap is from GT and lived in Linden during the race riots. At times he recount to me, the things he saw wah black ppl did to indians in wismar - repentful brother.

I grow up in a mixed village. For those who grow in black and indian

communities dey doan know each other(races). This knowing is much more than sharing music and food.

If u listen again to Hinds, he is telling us that even Granger doan know enough about Indians. He is an historian of black studies.   

All I am saying, the people doan know much of each other.

Sydney King realised about 60 years ago when he presented the notion of Partition. Have we moved closer as a nation after all that time. After 60 years, we have David Hinds . He might as well say Partition the country. The mindset of the people and politicians are ethnically inclined.

"Upliftment" in a racially charged society takes citizens with rational minds.

It is much easier to legislate laws, but attitudes in a different matter. Just read Caribj comments to my post-right away he thinks I am prone to denying blacks something. 

Caribj is in a league by himself. In fact, he was very close to Sidney King

Burnham regime only came about because CBJ was a blasted communist who the Americans din like. Otherwise, there would have been none of that 28 years.

While we might not have access to the full range of conversation and cultural experience, to say that we are ignorant of each other is nonsense.

I am able to have quite interesting conversations with Indians from India, based mainly on my exposure to Indo Caribbean people. Similarly Indo Caribbean people are able to interact with the full range of Caribbean people, based on their exposures to blacks who they encounter in Trinidad, Guyana and Suriname.

Racial insecurity in Guyana doesnt come out of hatred, or ignorance of each other.  It comes out of the same angst that one will see in societies across the world where two large minority groups grapple with each other for governance and resources.

Is he David Hinds?

Could be but that is not something I care to try and find out.

Suh, the dominant one rule. So what are you upset about.

Ignorance is not what I said.

And I can tell u, Africans are no way close to West Indian blacks. As for Indians being from India-those people look at other India looking ppl wid castism in mind.

I was born and grew up in Grove, EBD. I doubt there is a more mixed community in Guyana. Spent much of my early life on timber grants in the bush, again mixed environments. Attended very mixed elementary and high schools. Was an officer in the GDF. I have friends of all races all over the world whose doors would open without hesitation and a meal offered, should I ever be in need, despite our different political and religious inclinations.
Granger belongs to that group that's not in touch with the masses.

You miss Hinds' point that the man in street is more knowledgeable about his neighbor than the more affluent groups, the man in the street representing a much larger portion of the population, I think you'd agree.

But you answered my question. Indeed that is your experience. I have a different one.

By the way, in the context of Guyana, there's really not much more for one race to know about the others. The knowledge that Hinds is referring to is more why there is hostility between the races.

In New York, I walked into a Dunkin Donuts once with a black co-worker, where a strapping white fella stood with the physique of a body builder. Because I walked up to the counter, placed my order and left without paying any attention to the white guy, my friend felt compelled to ask if I had not been afraid. I was surprised and asked why? He could not give me a decent answer.

It is my personal experience, that other than shapes, sizes and color of physical features, there is not much difference between people of different races, mentally, spiritually, or emotionally. 

  Listen in the 1950s there was a building conflict.  Prior to that BG was a company colony run mainly by expats, and with a small sub elite consisting mainly of local whites, Portuguese and small mixed people.  The majority of the population was excluded.

That began to change after WW II when growing cries for universal suffrage, autonomy and acess to upward mobility led to a growing confidence among the Indian and African/mixed elites that they would soon dominate Guyana.

Each elite had their own organization, which purported to advocate on the bahalf of their own ethnic group. Whether they really represented the grass roots can be debated, but there was certainly unease among the grass roots of domination by the elites of the other group.  This came to the fore front after Burnham left.

Having read other descriptions from this era, aside from the piece of lies called the "West on Trial", it appears to me as if the Burnham Jagan split was initially more of a rural vs. urban split, than a African vs. Indian split.  

Several prominent Indians left with Burnham, but they had little appeal to the rural grass roots Indians, and so lost the constituencies within which they ran to Jagan, whose appeal to this group was greater.  The point is that Burnham knew that the PPP (Burnham) stood no chance of winning an election based upon a racial vote.

The real racial split began to ocur when the African and Indian elite groups joined with each wing of the PPP.  Some Indocentric group (not the PPP) coined the phrase "apaan jhat".  The response from the black side (after 1961) was "kith and kin".

After the PNC realized that they couldnt win Indian votes then  alliances began with the capitalist right of center UF, and then you can legitimately claim that the communist tendencies of the Jagans was used to foment conflict.

But even then the angst was Christians (Africans, mixed. Portuguesem Chinese and Christian Indians) against what they saw as an alien Hindu culture.  The blacks and the Portuguese didnt care for each other, but each saw the Hindu group as a greater threat.

So let us not pretend as if all would have been well but for the CIA.

Mauritius has all the problems of Guyana, only less spoken about because the Creole population is much smaller than the African/mixed population of Guyana. And also less educated and with a smaller middle class, so less able to advocate for itself.  The CIA has had no involvement with Mauritius. 

If you deny the right of a people to protest against their condition then that is exactly what you are doing.

I do not deny the right of Indians to protest against the PNC and I perfectly understand why some have anxieties about the APNU AFC coalition.

You on the other hand deny blacks that right.

naughty boy trying to panic Nehru.

On a serious note, the coalition is a risk, and may or may not work, but BECAUSE NAGAMOOTOO anticipated the risk.

1. He gave up trying to be the presidential candidate, I assume anticipating that this would panic Africans.

2. He negotiated a strengthened position for the PM, and carved out a specific role for the AFC.  Accept this or not, but the AFC has evolved as the alternate party for Indians who no longer like the PPP, but who will never vote PNC.  So yes the AFC becomes the "protector of Indians" under an APNU AFC government.  Call it what you will.

Now it is up to Nagamootoo to woo a panicked anti PPP Indian, who might fear a return of a Burnham type administration. This to him will be WORSE than the current PPP.  He will have to communicate with him the assurance (EMOTIONAL) that the safeguards are there to prevent this to happen, even if one assumes that Granger is a Burnham type creature, which few who know him, anticipate him to be.

Just like how I am an Indian and you are African decent. The way you and I perceived differently. Your temperament arrive at racism so quickly. And we might be considered educated. Hell, David Hinds wasting his time-kulie and blackman gat no future together. You and I are like Cain and Abel-who is the killah.

But the fact is the CIA did interfere in Guyanese politic. 

Not boasting. I probably know more about black(guyanes) history than many blacks-at home and abroad. The man in the street only sees what he sees.

Choosing a government is a different matter-and that is where it should count.

I grew up in G/town in the 1970s.  I dont know black people who will assume that Indians dont know what a steel pan is.  Maybe those blacks came from Linden.

BTW I have met people from China who know about steel pan.

I find this funny given the frequent discourse in Guyana is about how Indians are persecuted.  In fact Indians find it much easier to discuss this topic than many blacks in Guyana are able to.

Is it that you are so absorbed within your "Indianness" that you lack empathy for people who arent Indian?  Or is it that your Indianness is reliant upon being seen as being part of an angelic group, so any assertion that Indian racism exists is dismissed by you.

Hinds speaks of Indian ethnic insecurity and African ethnic insecurity.  He doesnt privilege one over the other.  He is not interested in discussiion about which group suffers more from racism.  He is not interested in opining which group is more racist.  Hinds is simply interested in advocating for black people the way that most Indians advocate for Indians. 

And he doesnt seek for blacks rights that he will deny Indians.  I have never read David Hinds demanding an affirmative action plan for Africans in Guyana.

So why you think that David Hinds is this Afro supremacist who is a huge threat to Indians in Guyana is baffling.

Why would I lie about a thing like that?

It is the perception of the gentleman, I being an Indian would not know so. The man told me, in Campbellville where he lived Indian people kept to themselves. He assumed I grew up in a predominant Indian village. Rosignol is a unique village. I never hold anything  against the Brother that he tells me.  Many blacks folks daon know alot about Indians. I am certain the Indians on the Corentyne doan know enough abot blacks.