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FM
Former Member

(Peeping Tom)It is mind-boggling that APNU would oppose the creation now of a SWAT Unit after what was experienced a few months ago when a miner went berserk in the city and killed four persons including two policemen who had gone to investigate the reports of a shooting on Middle Street.
The police walked straight into gunfire and there was a three-hour-long standoff before the gunman was shot and killed. That incident sparked debate about the need for a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit.


No country should wait until incidents like this one reoccur before it decides to have such a unit. It is very much like a country awaiting an accident before implementing road safety measures. Preemptive steps always have to be taken, because when terrible acts of violence take place, it is the very opposition parties who question why certain measures were not in place.
It is abhorrent to have read that APNU is opposed to the establishment of a SWAT unit. Why would anyone question the need for such a unit considering the nature of crime in Guyana?
APNU has railed against the levels of crime in Guyana. It has complained that enough is not being done and that the Ministry of Home Affairs has failed. Yet, it is opposed to something that all modern police forces have – SWAT units.
The basis of APNU’s arguments is very confusing. It argues that that while a SWAT team may have been necessary in the past it is not needed now, since none of the incidents requiring a SWAT response escalated into armed interventions. That is very confusing rationale, because if the incidents required a SWAT response, then by implication that justifies having a SWAT unit.
Whether or not armed intervention is required seems irrelevant to the need for a SWAT unit, unless implicit to the argument is that a SWAT unit is only required where an armed response is necessary.
In this context, how accurate is it for APNU to contend that none of the incidents requiring SWAT intervention involved armed interventions?  The incident in Middle Street, involving the miner, clearly involved armed intervention, unless of course APNU is suggesting that this miner who went berserk and began shooting at persons could have been subdued without the need for armed intervention.
While APNU is contending that a SWAT unit is not necessary at this time, it goes on to contradict another argument made by APNU which is that a SWAT unit is better prepared in times of inactivity. Since by APNU’s own argument, a SWAT unit is not needed because of the lack of incidents requiring armed interventions, now would therefore seem to be the most propitious time for a SWAT unit. Why then the opposition to having a SWAT unit in place?
One reason given is that the Guyana Police Force should be concentrating on filling the shortage of manpower rather than having a SWAT unit. This is an argument akin to saying instead of having a forensic lab the Guyana Police Force would be better advised to fill all its vacancies. The filling of manpower shortages need not be done at the cost of creating a unit which is now seen as vital to any modern police force and especially given the sophistication of criminal activity including those that require specially trained units.
Perhaps the real fear of APNU is that the SWAT unit to be assembled will represent the rebirth of the much-maligned Black Clothes Unit which has been accused of excesses against citizens but which also did some very good work in neutralizing threats to public safety. If the real fear of APNU is that the Guyana Police Force is reviving another Black Clothes Squad, then this is an issue on which the Force need to provide assurance to all concerned that the unit will not attract the same adverse publicity as the Black Clothes Squad but will instead report to a chain of command, be held accountable for operations, and will follow certain prescribed rules of conduct and engagement.

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Originally Posted by Conscience:

A.P.N.U is criticizing all and sundry in a bid to attract a ray of limelight onto themselves.

I do not know the reason for the SWAT. I do know you had something akin to it The BLack Clothes Police and they ended up being the worse crooks the nation saw. Better policing is needed but that is counter weighted by a need for a judicial system that works. Ours is woefully crippled.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Conscience:

A.P.N.U is criticizing all and sundry in a bid to attract a ray of limelight onto themselves.

I do not know the reason for the SWAT. I do know you had something akin to it The BLack Clothes Police and they ended up being the worse crooks the nation saw. Better policing is needed but that is counter weighted by a need for a judicial system that works. Ours is woefully crippled.

Conscience, leaving all parties aside, we are all one..Guyanese..okay?

 

Now,except for the first part for not knowing the reason for a SWAT,in Danyael's post, I think there is need for a team but the rest Danyael mentioned  there is quite true, he knows it, we know it, you know it.

Is this correct?

 

cain
Originally Posted by Cobra:

APNU opposed the SWAT team because Rohee is in command.

They are right.

There is already an incompetent person in command, imagine having a team of incompetent persons running around the place under his command?

cain
Originally Posted by cain:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Conscience:

A.P.N.U is criticizing all and sundry in a bid to attract a ray of limelight onto themselves.

I do not know the reason for the SWAT. I do know you had something akin to it The BLack Clothes Police and they ended up being the worse crooks the nation saw. Better policing is needed but that is counter weighted by a need for a judicial system that works. Ours is woefully crippled.

Conscience, leaving all parties aside, we are all one..Guyanese..okay?

 

Now,except for the first part for not knowing the reason for a SWAT,in Danyael's post, I think there is need for a team but the rest Danyael mentioned  there is quite true, he knows it, we know it, you know it.

Is this correct?

 

I do not think they are ready for a Swat.The soldiers are there. The mind boggling culture of incompetence and negligence in the police has to be addressed first. In addition, the layers of systems of accountability in the judicial system has to be strengthened.

 

We need secure police bonds in all counties to warehouse and preserve evidence.We need evidence integrity to be firm so we know from whom to whom it passes and who is ultimately responsible when it goes missing. We need court records secure and a reform of the Guyanese bar. It has lost their sense of commitment to the law as a sacred pillar of society. We need a strong independent internal investigative police team to go after bad cops.

 

Only today the brutal sodomizing of police of a 21 year old who is currently in the hospital for punctures and lacerations of his intestines has had no police intervention. At this point when we see the high incidents of rapes we have no readily available rape protocol and no rape kits. The system is completely incapable of self policing and as such it is a rogue enterprise for all intents and purposes. Bringing a swat into this culture with no supporting system will do nothing but have a team of well trained police "badmen" beating the shit out of the citizenry and breaking down doors left and right  because we do not have a formal legal definition of probable cause or strength in the warrant system.

 

This SWAT team is going to get the best training from competent people to be the worse terror unit on citizens. Lets call it what it is, a show piece when we have no strong police system infrastructure, training in investigative skills etc Those fellows currently think they are gods as they have no firm ethical culture in the system as a guide. In its entire history all reforms and improvements has been a patchwork of initiatives that left the underlying corrupt system in place. A clean cop in Guyana is one that that has left policing alone and gone into the priesthood.  These complaints are but pin pricks to the gaping cracks in our security infrastructure.The PPP lament on the need for a Swat is more political than to meet a pressing need. It is why I oppose a SWAT at this point. Let the soldiers handle it as they. at this point, have a better command structure.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

FM
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

FM
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

Talking bout IDIOTS and look one showed up!!!

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

Talking bout IDIOTS and look one showed up!!!

 

I'm being insulted by a known drunk

FM
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

Talking bout IDIOTS and look one showed up!!!

 

I'm being insulted by a known drunk

It really does not take much to insult an IDIOT like you.!!!

Nehru
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

That is exactly what SkeldonApe is say above. To him it is black people that is the problem. I bet he has a murti...( even as a Muslim) in his house to Gajrag

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

It really does not take much to insult an IDIOT like you.!!!

 

 

Oh how we play with words we are yet to know the meaning of!!!

 

D@. In your case, just look in the Mirror.

Nehru
I seriously don't see a need for a swat unit at this time.  And as I had said before, what is needed is good intel and response time.  But this is asking too much since the GPF consist of a bunch of lazy guys who prefer seeking beer and bribe money instead of apprehending criminal.
Sheik101
Originally Posted by Sheik101:
I seriously don't see a need for a swat unit at this time.  And as I had said before, what is needed is good intel and response time.  But this is asking too much since the GPF consist of a bunch of lazy guys who prefer seeking beer and bribe money instead of apprehending criminal.

Thank you Bhai, now we talkin, lazy Fry Rice and Banks leaches.  But I disagree, you can have all the intelligence but if you don't have the right FORCE to respond with, dem Fry Rice eating Chaps gun run like hell when the Fireworks start.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

It really does not take much to insult an IDIOT like you.!!!

 

 

Oh how we play with words we are yet to know the meaning of!!!

 

D@. In your case, just look in the Mirror.

I call you a non thinking idiot on account of statements as above. In the mirror I see what you clearly are not. They say you have a PhD but apparently that is in basket weaving because I see no evidence of an analytic mind to this point., Even the most ready kneebender to the PPP often demonstrate some methodological thought process. You have none.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Sheik101:
I seriously don't see a need for a swat unit at this time.  And as I had said before, what is needed is good intel and response time.  But this is asking too much since the GPF consist of a bunch of lazy guys who prefer seeking beer and bribe money instead of apprehending criminal.

Thank you Bhai, now we talkin, lazy Fry Rice and Banks leaches.  But I disagree, you can have all the intelligence but if you don't have the right FORCE to respond with, dem Fry Rice eating Chaps gun run like hell when the Fireworks start.

maybe the money should be spent towards making them more efficient...

FM
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Sheik101:
I seriously don't see a need for a swat unit at this time.  And as I had said before, what is needed is good intel and response time.  But this is asking too much since the GPF consist of a bunch of lazy guys who prefer seeking beer and bribe money instead of apprehending criminal.

Thank you Bhai, now we talkin, lazy Fry Rice and Banks leaches.  But I disagree, you can have all the intelligence but if you don't have the right FORCE to respond with, dem Fry Rice eating Chaps gun run like hell when the Fireworks start.

maybe the money should be spent towards making them more efficient...

Ray, From the experience and History of the GPF, more money will not make them better. Since the PPP took over, they received 10 times the support they had in the past and in my opinion, nothing changed.

Nehru

There are justifiable fears that a SWAT unit, as conceived by Home Affairs Minister and PPP leader Clement Rohee, will in effect be a glorified death squad.

SWAT is ostensibly intended to fight criminals but will be called upon to do double duty in hounding opposition politicians and militants.

I applaud APNU and the AFC for swatting Rohee's SWAT plan.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:

There are justifiable fears that a SWAT unit, as conceived by Home Affairs Minister and PPP leader Clement Rohee, will in effect be a glorified death squad.

SWAT is ostensibly intended to fight criminals but will be called upon to do double duty in hounding opposition politicians and militants.

I applaud APNU and the AFC for swatting Rohee's SWAT plan.

Bhai, With Bihari thinking like that, Guyana will forever be a Cesspool.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Conscience:

The joint opposition needs to stop playing partisan poltics and support the crime fighting initiative.

every guyanese should support a swat team but it will help if the ppp fire rohee let him stay at freedom house and think how to kill black people

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:

There are justifiable fears that a SWAT unit, as conceived by Home Affairs Minister and PPP leader Clement Rohee, will in effect be a glorified death squad.

SWAT is ostensibly intended to fight criminals but will be called upon to do double duty in hounding opposition politicians and militants.

I applaud APNU and the AFC for swatting Rohee's SWAT plan.

You are incorrect with your assumptions. The phantoms already fulfill this requirement even thought they have not been activated in some time. 

FM

Its a hard task to deifer whats APNU's position really to tackle serious crimes, its they say the Police force should be better equip to deal with serious crime,now the state has established a SWAT team, they are against.

 

Does APNU score cheap political points from the crime spree?

 

FM
Originally Posted by Conscience:

Its a hard task to deifer whats APNU's position really to tackle serious crimes, its they say the Police force should be better equip to deal with serious crime,now the state has established a SWAT team, they are against.

 

Does APNU score cheap political points from the crime spree?

 

Can you please translate this from Mudheadese to English? Many thanks.

Mars
Originally Posted by Conscience:

APNU has no logical reason for refusing to support the introduction of a SWAT team.

Try reading the thread properly and understanding, you'll see their reason(s)

cain
Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by raymond:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

What some IDIOTS are saying is that Abee save in America and Canada, to HELL with the safety of the People of Guyana!!!  Bloody leaches!!!!!!!!!!!

WHich would make Guyana safer...a SWAT team or a well trained police force?

I am not arguing against a SWAT team...it's just a straight forward question

Obviously a well trained Police Force will be able to control Crime. A SWAT Team is there to deal with SPECIAL SITUATIONS and Emergencies.

 

You mean to say shoot black people before they get to see a magistrate?

The opposition job is to opposed everything. Granger said that's what he was elected to do. You can't blame them, you have to blame the ruling government for failing to make a convincible case for the SWAT team to get the opposition support.  

FM

People in politics don't have conscience and that's what bothers me. I am afraid that Granger may think the same of the PPP for the past 20 years. The notion of conscience is worth examining.

FM

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