ksazma posted:

ba$eman posted:

Thus far, it more qualifies as a hate crime and not terrorism.  He never had a political agenda, just hatred for Whites and mainly cops.  Islamists, on the other hand, want the black flag flying over the White House!!

His actions were driven by the recent shooting of blacks by police officers. Can't get more political than that bai.

Still race driven.  He had no political position!

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

.

They need to create jobs, manufacture in their communities, sell to their communities. Let the money roll around. 

I guess the absence of risk capital isn't a matter which you think important.

How much do you know about the garment industry? One cannot compete if products, aimed at the mass market, are made in the USA. So how many jobs will be created.  Retail is a very interconnected and low margin business.  Hence its domination by certain groups (NOT Guyanese Indians btw).

In addition fashion is based on fads.  No one is wearing Sean John, or FUBU now.

BTW the vast majority of Indo Guyanese are NOT self employed, nor do the best and brightest and most ambitious seek employment in enterprises owned by Guyanese Indians.   I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Indo Guyanese who own businesses don't intend their kids to take them over, but will prefer to sell out to others when they are willing to retire.

So cease with your usual ignorant black bashing.

FUBU is still earning some 200 mil a year.

Stormborn posted:

There is only one focus of the black lives movement. It is against the absurd injustices black people face from the justice system that destroyed social structures and from that the other consequent nomenclature and statistics that sets black people as the other in the society. I do not know what is tunnel vision here.

Nevertheless, while the Black Lives Movement is correct in their objection to the injustices that blacks feel, their tunnel vision comes because they don't seem to have a response for what may come after the protest. One has to think beyond the protest and be able to caution protestors to not go outside of established boundaries even if those boundaries are unjust. Laws are still laws and has to be followed until they are changed. The leaders including the politicians seem guilty of one side or the other instead of pointing out each side and how to deal with them.

Prashad posted:

This black shooter was a core black racist. Just like the  Granjer-greene gang.

Granger isn't a racist. Jagdeo is.

ba$eman posted:

ksazma posted:

ba$eman posted:

Thus far, it more qualifies as a hate crime and not terrorism.  He never had a political agenda, just hatred for Whites and mainly cops.  Islamists, on the other hand, want the black flag flying over the White House!!

His actions were driven by the recent shooting of blacks by police officers. Can't get more political than that bai.

Still race driven.  He had no political position!

Race is political no different than religion amongst others. That is why we have that political statement what America doesn't discriminate against.

Stormborn posted:

 

With Muslims this is west vs anti west ( or presuming w hat is anti west) It is about Muslims understating the relevance of secular humanism to the west and grasping that sharia is not antithetical to that.  In the minds of many muslims there are Muslims and there are Others. Correction here has to come from within Muslim communities to inform the world what they stand for. Maybe some one need to start a movement  We are Muslims to tell the world they are not ISIS or Al Shabab or Boko Haram etc.

Muslims do this every opportunity they get (and they get very little) but they are then accused of making excuses. No one cares about what the world's ninety something percent of Muslims not part of any Muslim militant group says.

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

 

With Muslims this is west vs anti west ( or presuming w hat is anti west) It is about Muslims understating the relevance of secular humanism to the west and grasping that sharia is not antithetical to that.  In the minds of many muslims there are Muslims and there are Others. Correction here has to come from within Muslim communities to inform the world what they stand for. Maybe some one need to start a movement  We are Muslims to tell the world they are not ISIS or Al Shabab or Boko Haram etc.

Muslims do this every opportunity they get (and they get very little) but they are then accused of making excuses. No one cares about what the world's ninety something percent of Muslims not part of any Muslim militant group says.

Well Muslims have a problem and it is only Muslims who can solve it. Not only are Muslims being stigmatized, but they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

Imams for the most part run the mosques. Most even opened those mosques. Unfortunately it is not easy replacing them.

And this is the challenge which Muslims have, as they lack a centralized authority which could reign in, discipline, or exclude those imams who preach violence.

No doubt the time has become necessary to have a governing authority to control all the varying groups of today's Muslims. All my life, I enjoyed the wonderful opportunity Muslims had with a direct connection to God. We did not need a Preacher, Prophet of Pope. But I fear that there are too many imams with their own teachings which they unfortunately did not acquire through some organized scholarship (and here again, it was nice that everyone can read the Qur'an and understand it). Unfortunately either by bad intentions or good ones, many imams see themselves doing the right thing while other not and since they essentially are the founders of their mosques, you can't necessarily exclude them. The most one can do in protest is stop visiting that mosque which happens all the time. In regard to preaching violence, I would hope that they are reported because whether one 'owns' the mosque or not, preaching violence is against the law of the land.  

Stormborn posted:

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

.

They need to create jobs, manufacture in their communities, sell to their communities. Let the money roll around. 

I guess the absence of risk capital isn't a matter which you think important.

How much do you know about the garment industry? One cannot compete if products, aimed at the mass market, are made in the USA. So how many jobs will be created.  Retail is a very interconnected and low margin business.  Hence its domination by certain groups (NOT Guyanese Indians btw).

In addition fashion is based on fads.  No one is wearing Sean John, or FUBU now.

BTW the vast majority of Indo Guyanese are NOT self employed, nor do the best and brightest and most ambitious seek employment in enterprises owned by Guyanese Indians.   I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Indo Guyanese who own businesses don't intend their kids to take them over, but will prefer to sell out to others when they are willing to retire.

So cease with your usual ignorant black bashing.

FUBU is still earning some 200 mil a year.

Exactly.  Made in China.   We don't even know what % of FUBU is currently owned by the founder.

caribny posted:

His actions were driven by the fact that he is an insane lunatic who got what he deserved. He single handedly allowed the debate to switch from police forces improving their tactics, and removing renegade cops to cop killers.  He has hurt the debate which was beginning to develop among main stream politicians.

Indeed although I see more of politician posturing than solution searching.

We had a similar opportunity before 9/11. Muslims were being listened to. Deedat as much as he had rough edges in how he spoke, it was not easy to dismiss his arguments. People were seeing Muslim beliefs as not so vastly different from their own outside of the divinity and death of Jesus. Even the Palestinians were gaining more friends at the world stage. Then 9/11 happened and pushed Muslims back so many decades that even if there were no other incidents, it would be a tough push to get back to where it was on 9/10. But unfortunately, many other incidents happened and continues to happen and Muslims are so far back now that it would take nothing short of a miracle to get back to the 9/10 demarcation line. It is not fun being a Muslim today but losing the faith is still worse than losing the fun.

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

 

With Muslims this is west vs anti west ( or presuming w hat is anti west) It is about Muslims understating the relevance of secular humanism to the west and grasping that sharia is not antithetical to that.  In the minds of many muslims there are Muslims and there are Others. Correction here has to come from within Muslim communities to inform the world what they stand for. Maybe some one need to start a movement  We are Muslims to tell the world they are not ISIS or Al Shabab or Boko Haram etc.

Muslims do this every opportunity they get (and they get very little) but they are then accused of making excuses. No one cares about what the world's ninety something percent of Muslims not part of any Muslim militant group says.

Well Muslims have a problem and it is only Muslims who can solve it. Not only are Muslims being stigmatized, but they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

Indeed. And add to that the fact that they have no solution. Think for a moment that there are some really primitive Muslims living in the mountains of Pakistan who commit very unholy acts. While we can get videos and information out of these places about these incidents, we can't seem to get any communication in. I find this unbelievable.

caribny posted:

Exactly.  Made in China.   We don't even know what % of FUBU is currently owned by the founder.

Like manufacturing in America, many other parts of the fabric of American life and society were left to decay slowly. No one objected to the first racist or bigoted act. No one did when it seem more than normal behavior. Today, these ills are so far seeded in our fabric that it will only get worse before it gets better. And unfortunately the politicians, preachers or public don't seen able or willing to find a solution.

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

 

With Muslims this is west vs anti west ( or presuming w hat is anti west) It is about Muslims understating the relevance of secular humanism to the west and grasping that sharia is not antithetical to that.  In the minds of many muslims there are Muslims and there are Others. Correction here has to come from within Muslim communities to inform the world what they stand for. Maybe some one need to start a movement  We are Muslims to tell the world they are not ISIS or Al Shabab or Boko Haram etc.

Muslims do this every opportunity they get (and they get very little) but they are then accused of making excuses. No one cares about what the world's ninety something percent of Muslims not part of any Muslim militant group says.

Well Muslims have a problem and it is only Muslims who can solve it. Not only are Muslims being stigmatized, but they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

caribny, you're re-litigating the proposition that the terrorists are the problem, the Muslim world is the problem, the non-Muslim world has no responsibility or accountability in solving the terrorism problem.

Your problem caribny (why do they refer to you as "J" and not "ny"?) is that you defined the problem (I should have said issue but let's user the overused problem) incorrectly. This terrorism by a group calling itself Islamic State is an ARAB problem. Two Arab countries have this cancer and they seem unable to deal with it. the surrounding Arab countries like Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. all seem unable to deal with it. Now caribny thinks that Muslims (mostly non-Arabs) fuel this so-called "Islamic" State entity., and should stop encouraging them. Yeah, like we do.

caribny and Stormie, etc. thinks also that not only Muslims (mostly non-Arabs) who do not send their children to fight with cutlass and baseball bats also pray in a religion that fuels this so-called "Islamic" State. So easy and irresponsible and intellectually lazy to make this claim, right Stormie? So they call for these billion and a half religion to renounce Islam and join some other religion, I suppose.

I better be careful in my non-religious rants as Bibiski might think I'm virulently Islamic (Stormie and caribny would like to say "Islamic" as in State).

Kari posted:

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

 

With Muslims this is west vs anti west ( or presuming w hat is anti west) It is about Muslims understating the relevance of secular humanism to the west and grasping that sharia is not antithetical to that.  In the minds of many muslims there are Muslims and there are Others. Correction here has to come from within Muslim communities to inform the world what they stand for. Maybe some one need to start a movement  We are Muslims to tell the world they are not ISIS or Al Shabab or Boko Haram etc.

Muslims do this every opportunity they get (and they get very little) but they are then accused of making excuses. No one cares about what the world's ninety something percent of Muslims not part of any Muslim militant group says.

Well Muslims have a problem and it is only Muslims who can solve it. Not only are Muslims being stigmatized, but they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

caribny, you're re-litigating the proposition that the terrorists are the problem, the Muslim world is the problem, the non-Muslim world has no responsibility or accountability in solving the terrorism problem.

 

Your problem caribny (why do they refer to you as "J" and not "ny"?) is that you defined the problem (I should have said issue but let's user the overused problem) incorrectly. This terrorism by a group calling itself Islamic State is an ARAB problem. Two Arab countries have this cancer and they seem unable to deal with it. the surrounding Arab countries like Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. all seem unable to deal with it. Now caribny thinks that Muslims (mostly non-Arabs) fuel this so-called "Islamic" State entity., and should stop encouraging them. Yeah, like we do.

caribny and Stormie, etc. thinks also that not only Muslims (mostly non-Arabs) who do not send their children to fight with cutlass and baseball bats also pray in a religion that fuels this so-called "Islamic" State. So easy and irresponsible and intellectually lazy to make this claim, right Stormie? So they call for these billion and a half religion to renounce Islam and join some other religion, I suppose.

I better be careful in my non-religious rants as Bibiski might think I'm virulently Islamic (Stormie and caribny would like to say "Islamic" as in State).

 

Sorry. I mean Islam as t he religion the infallible, pristine linguistically, unambiguous, simple and easily accessible for its truth and veracity as sold whole cloth to the ummah except when that it tested. I am saying that the reality that it is so easily subverted by the various groups in whose name they commit genocide is percisely because it is to the ummah, a mystery. Any old mullah can create a fatwa and the congregants do not know a damn if he is correct or not because there is no legacy in the faith of interrogating the faith and responding with a could be a consensus view. Terrorists get traction because of this lacking.

Stormie, I hear you, but that is mostly an Arab condition, not an Islamic one among the 1.25 billion Muslims who are not Arab.

I have a lot of problem with religion, period. You can apply reason, intuition, apriori thinking, etc. but when you come to think of the origins of the universe, it's progress as either galaxies moving away from each other or being pulled back by gravitational forces to the Big Crunch, you have to turn to some other knowledge for answers. That other knowledge is faith. Yes, that's not an oxymoron. Cogito ergo sum. No one has a monopoly on the methodology of knowledge, and even the pure rationalist has to account for faith.

But I digress. I often question why a deity should ask its subjects to profess his fealty 5 times a day. I often question the regimen that makes up the PRACTICE of praying. I often question why the ordinal values on certain acts at certain times of the calendar with mathematical precision. For instance if you do this in Ramadan you get 37% more blessings. I often wonder about accounting in Islam and its militaristic-like rigidity in bestowing blessings. I have tons of questions buit I ask them within the confines of theology. Note ot Bibibski, this does not make me a religious nut, as you so endearingly posit. I often wonder if I am religious in the observational sense of the word. I might be more like Stormie. caribny is another matter - he just hates Muslims period like he hates Jagdeo and his PPP cabal.

ksazma posted:

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

Imams for the most part run the mosques. Most even opened those mosques. Unfortunately it is not easy replacing them.

And this is the challenge which Muslims have, as they lack a centralized authority which could reign in, discipline, or exclude those imams who preach violence.

No doubt the time has become necessary to have a governing authority to control all the varying groups of today's Muslims. All my life, I enjoyed the wonderful opportunity Muslims had with a direct connection to God. We did not need a Preacher, Prophet of Pope. But I fear that there are too many imams with their own teachings which they unfortunately did not acquire through some organized scholarship (and here again, it was nice that everyone can read the Qur'an and understand it). Unfortunately either by bad intentions or good ones, many imams see themselves doing the right thing while other not and since they essentially are the founders of their mosques, you can't necessarily exclude them. The most one can do in protest is stop visiting that mosque which happens all the time. In regard to preaching violence, I would hope that they are reported because whether one 'owns' the mosque or not, preaching violence is against the law of the land.  

Many Imams are so engrossed in hate that they preach it as normal business.  And the have their blind followers who are equally engrossed in hate that they too don't see it.  Unless they are ostracized by other Muslims from the community, this cancer will be around and all Muslims will pay for the evils of that bunch!  Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

seignet posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Kari posted:

Billy Beee the Boston Marathon bombers were self-described lone wolves; so too was the nut in Orlando. ISIS or Al Qarda  - both non-Islamic - never stated that they trained, financed or plotted with the terrorist killings in the US. Inspired by them? Yes. But so too are mentally disturbed people who get inspired by anything that glamorizes their pitiful existence.

While you show the signs just described, please don't do like the San Bernadino chap or the Fort Hood dude or the others. We want you around, mentally disturbed and all.

Most of their ( Al Qaeda and ISIS) fundings come from ordinary people you classify as Muslims.  It is such a weak argument to say that the terror we face from these two groups and others like Bokoharam are non-Islamic or has no connection to Muslim groups just because something in their holy book prohibits terror.

This kind of act from this individual is not a regular one that we can label it terror. He is a nut job who believes that the entire force of White officers are out to hurt black people. This is absurd. The Muslim terror groups are motivated by a belief that they must defeat those who believe in a different ideology or religion by all means necessary. Killing innocent people and driving terror in the hearts of entire communities is terrorism

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

MOST of the attacts carried out in The USA is carried out by BIBLE loving Folks

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Kari posted:

Billy Beee the Boston Marathon bombers were self-described lone wolves; so too was the nut in Orlando. ISIS or Al Qarda  - both non-Islamic - never stated that they trained, financed or plotted with the terrorist killings in the US. Inspired by them? Yes. But so too are mentally disturbed people who get inspired by anything that glamorizes their pitiful existence.

While you show the signs just described, please don't do like the San Bernadino chap or the Fort Hood dude or the others. We want you around, mentally disturbed and all.

Most of their ( Al Qaeda and ISIS) fundings come from ordinary people you classify as Muslims.  It is such a weak argument to say that the terror we face from these two groups and others like Bokoharam are non-Islamic or has no connection to Muslim groups just because something in their holy book prohibits terror.

This kind of act from this individual is not a regular one that we can label it terror. He is a nut job who believes that the entire force of White officers are out to hurt black people. This is absurd. The Muslim terror groups are motivated by a belief that they must defeat those who believe in a different ideology or religion by all means necessary. Killing innocent people and driving terror in the hearts of entire communities is terrorism

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

MOST of the attacts carried out in The USA is carried out by BIBLE loving Folks

Most have nothing to do with the bible or religion!

ba$eman posted:

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Kari posted:

Billy Beee the Boston Marathon bombers were self-described lone wolves; so too was the nut in Orlando. ISIS or Al Qarda  - both non-Islamic - never stated that they trained, financed or plotted with the terrorist killings in the US. Inspired by them? Yes. But so too are mentally disturbed people who get inspired by anything that glamorizes their pitiful existence.

While you show the signs just described, please don't do like the San Bernadino chap or the Fort Hood dude or the others. We want you around, mentally disturbed and all.

Most of their ( Al Qaeda and ISIS) fundings come from ordinary people you classify as Muslims.  It is such a weak argument to say that the terror we face from these two groups and others like Bokoharam are non-Islamic or has no connection to Muslim groups just because something in their holy book prohibits terror.

This kind of act from this individual is not a regular one that we can label it terror. He is a nut job who believes that the entire force of White officers are out to hurt black people. This is absurd. The Muslim terror groups are motivated by a belief that they must defeat those who believe in a different ideology or religion by all means necessary. Killing innocent people and driving terror in the hearts of entire communities is terrorism

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

MOST of the attacts carried out in The USA is carried out by BIBLE loving Folks

Most have nothing to do with the bible or religion!

So why blame MUSLIMS and ISLAM for any lone wolf that has a Muslim name  for any criminal act he or she commits

seignet posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Kari posted:

Billy Beee the Boston Marathon bombers were self-described lone wolves; so too was the nut in Orlando. ISIS or Al Qarda  - both non-Islamic - never stated that they trained, financed or plotted with the terrorist killings in the US. Inspired by them? Yes. But so too are mentally disturbed people who get inspired by anything that glamorizes their pitiful existence.

While you show the signs just described, please don't do like the San Bernadino chap or the Fort Hood dude or the others. We want you around, mentally disturbed and all.

Most of their ( Al Qaeda and ISIS) fundings come from ordinary people you classify as Muslims.  It is such a weak argument to say that the terror we face from these two groups and others like Bokoharam are non-Islamic or has no connection to Muslim groups just because something in their holy book prohibits terror.

This kind of act from this individual is not a regular one that we can label it terror. He is a nut job who believes that the entire force of White officers are out to hurt black people. This is absurd. The Muslim terror groups are motivated by a belief that they must defeat those who believe in a different ideology or religion by all means necessary. Killing innocent people and driving terror in the hearts of entire communities is terrorism

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

Pointblank posted:

ba$eman posted:

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

MOST of the attacts carried out in The USA is carried out by BIBLE loving Folks

Most have nothing to do with the bible or religion!

So why blame MUSLIMS and ISLAM for any lone wolf that has a Muslim name  for any criminal act he or she commits

Imams who preach hatred inspire lone wolves.  The acidic environment established by hate speech prey on the weak and dispossessed who lash out against those they are thought to hate and blame for whatever they are going through.

ba$eman posted:

Pointblank posted:

ba$eman posted:

Pointblank posted:

seignet posted:

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

MOST of the attacts carried out in The USA is carried out by BIBLE loving Folks

Most have nothing to do with the bible or religion!

So why blame MUSLIMS and ISLAM for any lone wolf that has a Muslim name  for any criminal act he or she commits

Imams who preach hatred inspire lone wolves.  The acidic environment established by hate speech prey on the weak and dispossessed who lash out against those they are thought to hate and blame for whatever they are going through.

Of All the Massacres in The USA lately How many were done my peopel with Muslim Names and How many was done by Non Muslims And of those done with people with Muslim Names How many were religious so as to follow any Imam.

seignet posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Kari posted:

Billy Beee the Boston Marathon bombers were self-described lone wolves; so too was the nut in Orlando. ISIS or Al Qarda  - both non-Islamic - never stated that they trained, financed or plotted with the terrorist killings in the US. Inspired by them? Yes. But so too are mentally disturbed people who get inspired by anything that glamorizes their pitiful existence.

While you show the signs just described, please don't do like the San Bernadino chap or the Fort Hood dude or the others. We want you around, mentally disturbed and all.

Most of their ( Al Qaeda and ISIS) fundings come from ordinary people you classify as Muslims.  It is such a weak argument to say that the terror we face from these two groups and others like Bokoharam are non-Islamic or has no connection to Muslim groups just because something in their holy book prohibits terror.

This kind of act from this individual is not a regular one that we can label it terror. He is a nut job who believes that the entire force of White officers are out to hurt black people. This is absurd. The Muslim terror groups are motivated by a belief that they must defeat those who believe in a different ideology or religion by all means necessary. Killing innocent people and driving terror in the hearts of entire communities is terrorism

Good luck there bai. Yuh addressing a programmed people. Just from the comments made by such grouping, demonstrates the mindset. Nothing you say will be reasonable enough. Simply, piousness is misinterpreted as authentic. 

ba$eman posted:

Many Imams are so engrossed in hate that they preach it as normal business.  And the have their blind followers who are equally engrossed in hate that they too don't see it.  Unless they are ostracized by other Muslims from the community, this cancer will be around and all Muslims will pay for the evils of that bunch!  Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

It is no secret that many mosques are infiltrated by law enforcement, if there was any concern, wouldn't we see more news of imams preaching hate? Remember that hate is a crime in America.

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

There is only one focus of the black lives movement. It is against the absurd injustices black people face from the justice system that destroyed social structures and from that the other consequent nomenclature and statistics that sets black people as the other in the society. I do not know what is tunnel vision here.

Nevertheless, while the Black Lives Movement is correct in their objection to the injustices that blacks feel, their tunnel vision comes because they don't seem to have a response for what may come after the protest. One has to think beyond the protest and be able to caution protestors to not go outside of established boundaries even if those boundaries are unjust. Laws are still laws and has to be followed until they are changed. The leaders including the politicians seem guilty of one side or the other instead of pointing out each side and how to deal with them.

They protest for change hence what they anticipate is change from brutish behavior everyone who is a minority understands to one of respect, civility and trust.

Very few of us trust the cops and the reason for this is most we meet seem to exist to demonstrate they have the power of life and death over us and are consequently rude and nasty. These who do this must acknowledge their social skills deficits and correct it.

Black lives are not to predict or anticipate the ignoramus who would see change as outside the domain of peaceful protests. And people protesting always are outside the boundary.That is why it is called a protest. It means resisting things as usual and causing others to stop and listen.

Stormborn posted:

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

There is only one focus of the black lives movement. It is against the absurd injustices black people face from the justice system that destroyed social structures and from that the other consequent nomenclature and statistics that sets black people as the other in the society. I do not know what is tunnel vision here.

Nevertheless, while the Black Lives Movement is correct in their objection to the injustices that blacks feel, their tunnel vision comes because they don't seem to have a response for what may come after the protest. One has to think beyond the protest and be able to caution protestors to not go outside of established boundaries even if those boundaries are unjust. Laws are still laws and has to be followed until they are changed. The leaders including the politicians seem guilty of one side or the other instead of pointing out each side and how to deal with them.

They protest for change hence what they anticipate is change from brutish behavior everyone who is a minority understands to one of respect, civility and trust.

Very few of us trust the cops and the reason for this is most we meet seem to exist to demonstrate they have the power of life and death over us and are consequently rude and nasty. These who do this must acknowledge their social skills deficits and correct it.

Black lives are not to predict or anticipate the ignoramus who would see change as outside the domain of peaceful protests. And people protesting always are outside the boundary.That is why it is called a protest. It means resisting things as usual and causing others to stop and listen.

Nevertheless, there are legal boundaries to protests and the leaders of these organizations as well as the politicians need to clearly convey those boundaries. I don't see these cautions clearly made. Advocates on every side seems to be afraid of being balance seemingly because they fear compromising their position and in doing so fail to set forth the boundaries of their protest. Until everyone is honest about all conflicting sides, there will not be any measurable resolve.

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

There is only one focus of the black lives movement. It is against the absurd injustices black people face from the justice system that destroyed social structures and from that the other consequent nomenclature and statistics that sets black people as the other in the society. I do not know what is tunnel vision here.

Nevertheless, while the Black Lives Movement is correct in their objection to the injustices that blacks feel, their tunnel vision comes because they don't seem to have a response for what may come after the protest. One has to think beyond the protest and be able to caution protestors to not go outside of established boundaries even if those boundaries are unjust. Laws are still laws and has to be followed until they are changed. The leaders including the politicians seem guilty of one side or the other instead of pointing out each side and how to deal with them.

They protest for change hence what they anticipate is change from brutish behavior everyone who is a minority understands to one of respect, civility and trust.

Very few of us trust the cops and the reason for this is most we meet seem to exist to demonstrate they have the power of life and death over us and are consequently rude and nasty. These who do this must acknowledge their social skills deficits and correct it.

Black lives are not to predict or anticipate the ignoramus who would see change as outside the domain of peaceful protests. And people protesting always are outside the boundary.That is why it is called a protest. It means resisting things as usual and causing others to stop and listen.

Nevertheless, there are legal boundaries to protests and the leaders of these organizations as well as the politicians need to clearly convey those boundaries. I don't see these cautions clearly made. Advocates on every side seems to be afraid of being balance seemingly because they fear compromising their position and in doing so fail to set forth the boundaries of their protest. Until everyone is honest about all conflicting sides, there will not be any measurable resolve.

The democrats sat on the floor of the house to protest Speaker Ryan refusal of a vote on their  bill restricting gun licenses of those on the terrotrist watch list. He claimed it was against house rules to do that so they Democrats were breaking the law. Protesters break laws. The constraint here is they do not resort to violence. They however cannot anticipate what others may do.

Claudette Colovin and Rosa Park  precipitated the civil rights movement because the protested the almost 100 year old plessy vs furguson ruling by the supreme court affirming separate but equal and that the 13 and 14 amendments did not speak to equality  as against custom, usage, and tradition of states where whites wanted t heir own space.

A whole decade of violence where white and black protesters were brutalizd and sometimes murdered all across the country. One can see this in those old grainy black and white films of the era showing the use of fire hoses, whips, horses and even dogs to punish protesters because they were acting against the law as stated in the supreme court of this land.   However, that give us the ruling in Brown v Board of Ed that abolished the separate but equal premise of whites  by insisting it was cruel unjust and unequal. We live in that world today.

This little history is to illustrate that protest movements are always tagged and labeled illegal, contrary to tradition and custom but it is exactly that kind of complacency against egregious realities the movement intends to highlight is the reason for protesting. I do not like the in your face militancy at times but I know what is it these people are protesting. It is what I experience and what I fear so much has a high likelihood may harm my child because he is a black kid  and not because he is a criminal in this aggressively policed world. I also know you know what I am talking about because if you are black or brown here you would have met the idiot cop with the big mouth that is a pompos ass who you know would have no qualms shooting you and so you say yes sir no sir and thank you sit just to protect your self and walked away humiliated and cussing.

ba$eman posted:

Many Imams are so engrossed in hate that they preach it as normal business.  And the have their blind followers who are equally engrossed in hate that they too don't see it.  Unless they are ostracized by other Muslims from the community, this cancer will be around and all Muslims will pay for the evils of that bunch!  Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

Keep saying this till the cows come home and see if the world is any safer.

Stormborn posted:

 

The democrats sat on the floor of the house to protest Speaker Ryan refusal of a vote on their  bill restricting gun licenses of those on the terrotrist watch list. He claimed it was against house rules to do that so they Democrats were breaking the law. Protesters break laws. The constraint here is they do not resort to violence. They however cannot anticipate what others may do.

Claudette Colovin and Rosa Park  precipitated the civil rights movement because the protested the almost 100 year old plessy vs furguson ruling by the supreme court affirming separate but equal and that the 13 and 14 amendments did not speak to equality  as against custom, usage, and tradition of states where whites wanted t heir own space.

A whole decade of violence where white and black protesters were brutalizd and sometimes murdered all across the country. One can see this in those old grainy black and white films of the era showing the use of fire hoses, whips, horses and even dogs to punish protesters because they were acting against the law as stated in the supreme court of this land.   However, that give us the ruling in Brown v Board of Ed that abolished the separate but equal premise of whites  by insisting it was cruel unjust and unequal. We live in that world today.

This little history is to illustrate that protest movements are always tagged and labeled illegal, contrary to tradition and custom but it is exactly that kind of complacency against egregious realities the movement intends to highlight is the reason for protesting. I do not like the in your face militancy at times but I know what is it these people are protesting. It is what I experience and what I fear so much has a high likelihood may harm my child because he is a black kid  and not because he is a criminal in this aggressively policed world. I also know you know what I am talking about because if you are black or brown here you would have met the idiot cop with the big mouth that is a pompos ass who you know would have no qualms shooting you and so you say yes sir no sir and thank you sit just to protect your self and walked away humiliated and cussing.

All of this withstanding, I would like to hear the leaders and politicians stating more clearly that no one should resort to breaking the law or resorting to violence. It is too easy for them to just assume that people will not resort to violence. There are so many advocacy groups around that I am sure many of these will get resolved through lawsuits but maybe advocacy groups enjoy the frenzy too.

ksazma posted:

Stormborn posted:

 

All of this withstanding, I would like to hear the leaders and politicians stating more clearly that no one should resort to breaking the law or resorting to violence. It is too easy for them to just assume that people will not resort to violence. There are so many advocacy groups around that I am sure many of these will get resolved through lawsuits but maybe advocacy groups enjoy the frenzy too.

The protesting is to make them state the obvious. They never experience the nasty cop. They think every encounter with a police is as a walk into Mr. Rojers neighborhood. Law suits need a social reality to feed off. It is why plessy v furguson lasted so long.  It is why racism of the institutional type still keeps neighborhoods white and poor people in poor neighbor hoods. Worse, you and I are talking and we are immigrants and we never feel the same thing that those in south central or campton feels.

Kari posted:

ba$eman posted:

Many Imams are so engrossed in hate that they preach it as normal business.  And the have their blind followers who are equally engrossed in hate that they too don't see it.  Unless they are ostracized by other Muslims from the community, this cancer will be around and all Muslims will pay for the evils of that bunch!  Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

 

Keep saying this till the cows come home and see if the world is any safer.

They do, they are in the best vantage point to see/hear hate against "Infidels" and to confront it as they are believers in the same faith.  Baseman, et al cannot as we don't know what's the right and wrong interpretation of the teachings of the prophet!

As I said, we are headed to armageddon with the Islamic world if this is not reigned in!  And we cannot afford to lose!

Kari posted:

.

Well Muslims have a problem and it is only Muslims who can solve it. Not only are Muslims being stigmatized, but they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

caribny, you're re-litigating the proposition that the terrorists are the problem, the Muslim world is the problem, the non-Muslim world has no responsibility or accountability in solving the terrorism problem.

 

 

 

Kari please stop defining the problem as ISIS.  That is a recent creation.  Islamist terrorism isn't, predating even 9/11. 

With the Oklahoma bombing the first thing that most thought was another Islamist attack, until we found out that it was one of Trump's boys run amok.

Muslims have a problem and you all need to solve it. Start by depriving those Arabs of the right to define what Islam is. Why do you all do all your rituals in Arabic as an example?   Then you wonder why the world thinks that Arab=Muslim=Arab.

caribny....you ask some things that I myself ask too. Does "Arab" define Islam? If so then non-Arabs should not be Muslims and any spreading of Islam outside of Arabia should be confronted. Why is Arab the only language recognized (and more blessings in an ordinal sense if you pronounce or lyricize the words in a certain "Arab" manner. See the other questions I raise about Islam and why I can be considered non-religious.

However, and this is important, I disagree with you that Muslims or Islam is the problem. I will take the jurisprudence angle here and the historic as well. Yes, terrorism in the name of any religion did not start with 9/11. In fact Israel was born from terrorist acts against the British in the name of the State of Judaism. Don't get me started on Christianity and its long history, including slavery.

In the case of Arab terrorists using a religion as its fuel, let me start with the CIA and the Shah of Iran, then move to the CIA support of the Mujahedin against the soviets, to US support in its proxy war of regimes that terrorized its people, and all of this led to the creation of this phenomenon of Arab terrorism using Islam's name. Then came the classic de-Baathification in Iraq that birthed Al Bhagdadi's Islamic State.

So "Muslims" have to solve this problem. So "Islam" is THE problem. hahahaha....hehehehe......why aren't you and Ba$e laffin'? heeeeee.....heeee.....heeee...

Kari posted:

 

Moderate Muslims need to take the lead as they have more to lose than anyone else!

 

Keep saying this till the cows come home and see if the world is any safer.

Kari with each attack by a lunatic using Islam as his justification non Muslims lose patience.  And more and more moderate Muslims also die as more of them are targeted than is true for non Muslims. 

With each passing year more and more Muslim countries become ensnared in terrorist acts by lunatics.  More and more open bigots like Trump, Le Pen, and others arise in the West, and with each attack their screams become to seem credible to more and more. 

Then of course there are so called moderates like Bill Maher joining the fray.  They asking why is it that one religion seems to produce so many nuts killing in the name of their religion.

So Kari I will suggest to you that it is the moderate Muslims who have more of a need to figure out a solution, as their options are becoming less and less. 

25 years ago people like Ralph Nader defined in the eyes of most Americans what an Arab American (doesn't matter whether he is Christian or not, or that most Muslim Americans aren't Arab).  Now Matteen does, even though he isn't Arab.

CARIBNY, if I take your logic to its conclusion, then Blacks being killed by police is a Black problem that oinly Blascks can

Kari posted:

CARIBNY, if I take your logic to its conclusion, then Blacks being killed by police is a Black problem that oinly Blascks can

There is a portion of this where only Blacks can address.  While there are some unjust shootings of Blacks, most Blacks shot have been involved in some type of criminal activity, though I believe shooting to death was not justified.

The issue of Islamic terrorism needs to be confronted by moderate Muslims or you will just have to deal with the blow-back.  Muslims are closest to the heart of the problem and it is they who need to take the lead to snuff it out at its source!

You all talk around the topic so much make any reasonable to conclude, there is some level of sympathy and understanding for this ideology!

Kari posted:

caribny....you ask some things that I myself ask too. Does "Arab" define Islam? If so then non-Arabs should not be Muslims and any spreading of Islam outside of Arabia should be confronted. Why is Arab the only language recognized (and more blessings in an ordinal sense if you pronounce or lyricize the words in a certain "Arab" manner. See the other questions I raise about Islam and why I can be considered non-religious.

 

However, and this is important, I disagree with you that Muslims or Islam is the problem. I will take the jurisprudence angle here and the historic as well. Yes, terrorism in the name of any religion did not start with 9/11. In fact Israel was born from terrorist acts against the British in the name of the State of Judaism. Don't get me started on Christianity and its long history, including slavery.

In the case of Arab terrorists using a religion as its fuel, let me start with the CIA and the Shah of Iran, then move to the CIA support of the Mujahedin against the soviets, to US support in its proxy war of regimes that terrorized its people, and all of this led to the creation of this phenomenon of Arab terrorism using Islam's name. Then came the classic de-Baathification in Iraq that birthed Al Bhagdadi's Islamic State.

So "Muslims" have to solve this problem. So "Islam" is THE problem. hahahaha....hehehehe......why aren't you and Ba$e laffin'? heeeeee.....heeee.....heeee...

Arab brand if Islam is defining Islam as a whole.  This is evident even in places like Guyana.  Many Muslims have become wannabe Wahabis!

You talk about this and that, yet you don't say the head of the snake in Islamic extremism is one of America's closest friends, Saudi Arabia followed by other Gulf states all of which are close to the USA.  At one time, Islamic terrorism was all about Palestine.  Now you hardly hear about that.

ISIS is an offshoot of Al Qaeda and Sadaam kept them at bay in Iraq, as acknowledged by Trump.  So it was not a creation of the invasion, but surely decapitating Iraq allowed them to spread.  The disenfranchised Sunnis seized opportunity to use then to fight for Sunni rights against a dominant Iran/Shia.

Pointblank posted:

This is not what the Wahabis preach and practice.  The anti-Hindu hatreds preached at the Queens Masjid does not reflect this.  Now what is your point?  Very little of this is practiced by those who represent Islam today.  Unless one practices what one preach, then these works ring hallow!  This is why I say, moderate Muslims have to confront this head on.  It is a Muslim problem!

BY the time they invaded India, Mohammed and his writings were completely distorted. The Caliphate, collected all of his other writings and BURNED them. Leaving only the current version of the Quran.