OK chief you if you don't that the PPP has nothing to apologize for how it has treated black people, then the PNC has nothing to apologize for either.

The PPP didn't have to rig (IN THE PAST) because the Indian vote was large enough, but they have been as guilty of bloodshed as any.  Roger Khan.  Need not say more!  And this is not PNC propaganda.  This is from the pen of at least one US ambassador as well as one US Federal judge.

You want the PNC to aploguze to get more Indian voters.  Not more black or mixed voters mind you, because they already get 90% of them. 

And the PNC does NOT control them either, as they are quite willing to stay home when they feel that the PNC doesn't defend their interests.  Why do you think that APNU had to run down to Linden when that town began to protest, even AFTER they had agreed that electricity rates should be increased?

No APNU ran up there because AFC sensed an opportunity to gain some support in that town and quickly appeared, and so APNU had to avoid being seen as not defending its second largest base of support.

How you fail to see that this is the PNC apologizing to one part of the population, when the other part feel equally aggrieved, enraged and abused by the PPP beats me.  The PPP is in power because INDIANS put them in.

So don't be cute and claim that there aren't racial dynamics in this, when you yourself placed it within a racial context.

Chief has said that the PPP has NOTHING to apologize for.  He demands that the PNC apologize.

Clearly he believes that the PNC did something to be forced to apologize, while the PPP didn't.

He then screams that redux and I want "black man govt" because I OBJECT to black people groveling to Indians.

So from that statement I can further infer that chief doesn't think that black people have the same right agitate against being discriminated against than Indians do.

Chief's reaction illustrates why so many of us on this board are against apology.  This is a mere gimmic to make the PNC look bad (which they are) and to pretend that the PPP is not as guilty.  So yes the PNC rigged and used brute force in opposition strongholds to collect ballot boxes, but the PPP sanctioned the murder of scores of innocent black men under their Roger Khan reign of terror, and the shooting of a young black boy (whose parents had the integrity not to accept hush money) shows that this reign of terror continues. 

The PPP encourages out of control behavior by the police and the GDF against poor black people under the notion that they don't matter.  Chief will think that saying this means that "I want a black man" govt.  Does Chief think that black people must remain silent in the face of abuse?

Why you think that APNU wil be less corrupt than the PPP baffles me.  The only role that the PNC plays is to give black people the comfort that some one is protecting them against a racist and hostile PPP.  And I can say that Indians vote PPP to protect them against what they see as a racist and hostile PNC.

The PPP is in power because INDIANS vote for them.  The PNC is the largest opposition party (having enough votes to govern with a UF coalition in 1964, because BLACK people voted for them.

50 years later NOTHING HAS CHANGED politically.

Now you, Kari and Chief can put this in your pipe.  If redux and I screamed that the PPP should apologize to black people, because of the out of control Roger Khan, and assorted thugs drove fear into many poor black men, including those who are NOT criminals,  I know that you would wonder how come we "forgot" the sordid track record of the PNC.

But you see it is OK in Guyana for Indians to claim racism against them by the PNC. but when black people complain about PPP racism against them, we are accused of wanting a "black man" govt.

Chief this accusation shows that under your skin you are no different from people like yuji.  Neither him nor YOU feel that black people in Guyana have the right to complain when wrong is being done against them!  When we do so we are called racists and that we demand 100% control.

You can search the entire GNI and you will find NO post from me demanding black dominance.  You will find MANY where I claim that Burnham DESTROYED black people. Some where you claimed otherwise.

So put a trap on your mouth because when you make allegations you end up looking STUPID!

And you know what is funny about Kari and Chief.  They attack the non Indians who object to the apology, me, redux, and Stormborn, but Mitwah and Gilbakka have said the SAME thing, and yet there is no screaming about them wanting "blackman" govt.

And look at this wanting black man govt accusation.  Is it based on us wanting PNC rule.  No.  It is based on the mere fact that we do not see why Indian fears should be pandered to and that of black people ignored.  We do not see why the garbage peddled daily that "black man bad, Indian good so black man have to apologize" should be tolerated.  That might not be your intent but that is how it will be seen in Guyana.

Kishanb, Kari,and Chief, go sit down with yuji, skeldonman, and rev, because you have no more respect for black people than they do! 

He is stupid, very little thinking to his words.

I have to agree, you never trust any political group, they will grow corrupt if/when they victory is assured, one way or another.  The PNC felt over confident with their military co-partners, the PPP feels too confident with the Indian vote.  Neither scenario is good for good governance.

Why Indians are 45% of the votes. Not 60%.

 Do you think that the 40% black vote will be angry because he didn't grovel to Indians?  No they will be angry if he does so, and doesn't demand an equal apology for PPP treatment of blacks.

The Amerindians think that BOTH blacks and Indians have been horrible to them, so don't think that they are going to be part of that debate.  Their hope is that we kill each other off so that they can get their country back.

I have a deep suspicion that what most Guyanese want is to leave the past in the past, given that this past hasn't been good for too many.  They want leadership who will respect them, help them to help themselves, and to carve and implement a vision for Guyana which allows them to exploit the vast natural resource potential of Guyana.

Apologies from EITHER side create more issues than they resolve.

I think, if Granger keeps up his current open and conciliatory stance, he could make gains and break that 41/42% PNC resistance level.

  The facts is that the PPP and the PNC are bad because their supporters allow them to be.  The blame is not just on the PPP and the PNC but on ALL OF US, who empowered them to misbehave by blindly voting for them.  Not because we trust them.  We don't.  But because we fear people from the "other side".

So when people claim that there isn't a racial dynamic in all of this, they are either naïve or dishonest.

What Granger is doing is reaching out to every one, and even exposing himself to embarrassment.  He will know full well that much of the Indo Guyanese diaspora include people who had to flee Burnham, so will carry much rage against the PNC and black people.

When Cheddi came up to NYC for the first time when he won, a group of us went to RH to hear him speak.  It was a very multiracial audience, representing the full range of what Guyana was.

The attitude that most of us had was to listen to what Cheddi had to say given that, like it or not, he was the President.  Also most honest people knew that the PNC has done a poor job, and even though Hoyte was turning the country around, there were still too many Burnhamists around and who had to be removed.

So Cheddi tells the crowd how every body suffered under Burnham blck and Indian. And that he will be open to all, black and Indian.  The crowd BOOED.  To his credit he told the crowd that unless there was a building of trust between the two major groups Guyana wasn't going to progress, and that their reaction wasn't going to lead to this.

22 years later we have seen that the PPP turned out to be just as racist towards those assumed to be the enemy (black people, apart from a few tokens) as the PNC was against those who were assumed to be the enemy (Indians apart from a few tokens).

Guyana has yet to rescue itself from the racial trap that it fell into around 1961.

Kari, chief and others might feel that only Indians have a right to complain and that when black people do, to quote Kari, "we are emotional, or mentally unbalanced", and this is why we don't trust their scheme, regardless as to what their true motivations might be.

I noticed you highlighted your question to me.

My answer to you is NO. No abused community  should  remain quiet, regardless if they are black, brown or yellow.

It is on record that the PPP used the phantoms not only to kill blacks but everyone who stood in their way. Their own Minister was caught in this fiasco with Roger Khan and he paid with his dear life and I am speaking about Sat Sawh.

You are using  the PPP crimes  and magnifying it towards blacks only when the record speaks clearly for itself. Under the PPP Government 5 or 6  protesters were murdered at Springlands all Indian, 2 were murdered at All Albion all Indians and 2 in Linden and they were blacks. This is what I can remember, there are probably more.

I am repeating what I said time and again. I do not see the PNC apology as an apology of blacks to Indians, it is you and a few others who are interpreting it that way. Secondly the PPP is still in Government and as far as I am concerned the next elected Government should not "turn the other cheek" as what Jagan did to the the PNC.

Chief has said that the PPP has NOTHING to apologize for.  He demands that the PNC apologize.

Clearly he believes that the PNC did something to be forced to apologize, while the PPP didn't.

CribMan you are such a jackass....................

When will the English language stop being so formidable an obstacle to you?

CaribJ is trying to score points  to say " That I demand a PNC apology".

I have made it clear that my only reason for asking for an apology from the PNC is that it will assist them.

CaribJ is twisting  what I am saying  to suit  his own twisted mind.

Where is the allegation that I am making. You are in your own racist world and trying to paint me with that brush.

Check GNI and you will see that I am  in the forefront to condemn  when  injustices are committed in Guyana. The difference with me and you is for me it does not matter the color of the perosn, for you it is everything black and what Indians do is bad. 

Chiefy: ". . . The PPP was elected over and over since 1992, they are not in office by the barrel of a gun. I agree that there is massive corruption and the Government is not that transparent but to link a call for them to apologize, I ask apologize for what? Some of them will need to be jailed but not an apology."

https://guyana.crowdstack.io/topic/mr...0#391704801021233360

_______________________________________________

at the risk of being uncharacteristically overindulgent, leh me break it down fine fine fuh all dose who pretending dey just slow an stupid . . .

when u link a clear call for the PNC to "APOLOGIZE" for crimes against the people . . . then juxtapose

"they [PPP] are not in office by the barrel of a gun [like de PNC were]" with

"[but] there is massive corruption and the [PPP] Government is not that transparent" then folow it with

"but to link a call for them [PPP] to apologize, I ask apologize for what?"

is actually called "[comparing] one party's crimes with the other" . . . to anybady who went past the 6th Grade, that is

so much for the lame gymnastics of wannabe smartmen Sancho Panza and Don Quixote here who, deep inside a trap of their own making, soldier on resolutely astride their mangy Robb Street dankey

Take a dankey to see a dankey.

The PPP does like the PNC did.  The bulk of the people who suffer exclusion under the PPP are black, just as the bulk of those who faced exclusion under the PNC were Indian.

In order to attempt to keep their bases under control BOTH the PPP and the PNC have reserved the worst of their vitriol for the FEW who they see as traitors because they try to leave the race plantation.  You will note that many of their supporters endorse this behavior.  Look at how Freddie Kissoon is roundly lambasted because he dares to suggest that blacks face blatant racism under the PPP. 

The reality is that to most Guyanese PNC=black and PPP=Indian.  This you might not agree with but this is the fact.  Blacks vote PNC, not because they think that it is better but because they want it to protect them against "collie man rule".  Indians express an equal need for protection against "blackman" rule.

Why do you think that Sam Hinds, who was very popular when he led GUARD in Linden, can't deliver votes for the PPP?  Because they see him as an Uncle Tom doing what his Indian "masters" tell him what to do.  Granger apologizing, and not demanding a similar apology from the PPP.......I have said my piece on that.  Interestingly neither you nor Kari seem able to prove me wrong.  And if you claim that this is due to racists, then you saying that this is what the bulk of Lindeners are.

Well loads of us have told you that it will not, because it will hurt their image with their own core base.  If a political party loses their core base, they will lose because such loss will NEVER be made up by gains from non traditional groups.

So why do you continue to talk about this apology when it is clear that you made miscalculation in how many blacks in Guyana will view it?

Kari you said that the PNC should apologize to get the Indian vote.  You said so too many times for you to claim that I didn't read you correctly.

So you put your "request" within a racial context and then are surprised when people tell you that not only will many blacks not like it, but their refusal to vote will ensure that the PPP wins.

Instead of thinking about this and adjusting ytour ideas you and Chief join to hurl insults at us.

When Chief screamed that I am a racist who wants "black man rule" did you disagree?

Kari will hurl abuse like a hoe who didn't get paid, but will not deconstruct Chief's rants.  Chief of course screams nonsense when he gets angry and can't find evidence to support his point, in the face of arguments which say he is wrong.

Like it or not.  Large numbers of blacks will see any attempt by the PNC to garner Indian support by apologizing to them as groveling. 

They however will support what Granger is doing, and that is trying to build some support among those who don't traditional support the PNC by doing some outreach. 

If asked about PNC past atrocities when he does his outreach an appropriate answer will be to say that in times past BOTH the PPP and PNC engaged in activities that they ought not, and that such behavior worsened the ethnic divide, and heightened insecurity.  That the past is the past and that this no longer represents what the PNC is all about, and that the PPP can speak for themselves.

But for the PNC to unilaterally apologize with no mention of the PPP.  NONSENSE and a fast way to losses.  Note how eager the PPP die hards are for them to do this, as they know well what the consequences will be.

And when injustice is directed against people specifically they are black to draw attention to this with an aim in stopping this.....people are wrong?

So when Freddie Kissoon angered Jagdeo by showing exactly how racist the PPP was he was wrong?

Well thanks to him the PPP finally appointed  a few blacks to its diplomatic postings, which at times looked like India, when one considered the ethnic ancestry of virtually all of those APPOINTED.

PHG and CBJIA at their senior levels look like they are in another country in another continent thousands of miles away.  Not Guyana where talent comes in all ethnic groups.

I guess you will think that MLK and Mandela were wrong to speak out against racism.

You love to fabricate non facts.

Mr Burnham and  Mr Hoyte, the two PNC leaders who rigged elections, both surrounded themselves with Indians. Mr Burnham never and I repeated never excluded Indians from his cabinet neither Mr Hoyte. The PPP Government is not as inclusive as the PNC.

More Indians became rich under Burnham and the PNC  THAN BLACKS.  Yes I agree that the PNC was pratiscing party paramountcy and only card members were getting jobs but as I say card members and many Indians beat the system got part cards and did better than the blacks. Racists like yourself who coined the name Desmond Persaud for Mr Hoyte ALL BECAUSE HE GAVE THE TOP POSITIONS TO INTELLIGENT iNDIANS  is of the mindset  that you have to born a blackman to be  PNC.  Hoyte made you guys looks like stupid and prove that jobs must be given to folks with qualifications. Most of his advisors were Indians and so was Mr Burnham.

So I make my case that the PNC that rigged the elections and stole the ballot boxes was not a black party as you want to make out. On the night of July 16th 1973, who was the biggest PNC advocate   on GBS, IT WASN'T A BLACKMAN, it was one of the most intelligent Indian lawyer in the world, it was Sir Lionel Luckhoo. Yes Indians and Indian attorneys crafted the PNC CONSTITUTION THAT MADE Burnham President for life.

Look move aside a, an apology by the PNC IS ALSO TO BLACKS.

Poor you!! You are all over the place, stop fishing!! From Freddie KisOom to MLK!!

Do not use MLK and MANDELA WITH YOUR TOUNGE, go brush your racist mouth.

Stop and I say STOP CALLING THOSE TWO DISTINGUISHED MEN NAME.

NOW YOU WANT TO SCORE CHEAP POLITICAL POINTS. It's not gonna get you anywhere my friend!!

Is any of these appointees by the PPP lacking talents?

another 'saving face' deployment of red herrings by the embattled chiefsta

lol

Are you doubting facts?

ask pretzelman Kari to explain "red herring" to yuh

Isn't Red Herring what Dr Jagan and Mrs Jagan use to feed your parents at Red House?

kari not taking yuh calls nuh?

i see yuh dragging meh parents into yuh shyte . . . u is wan dangerous fool when u get desperate

nah suh bai?

http://youtu.be/NNTZxoGm_kgI

me throw me corn but me ain't call no fowl!!

90% of the blacks vote PNC so why do you think that they need an apology when clearly the party that they feel most threatened by is the PPP? 

If they don't like the PPP they have the AFC so its not as if the only party available to them is the PPP.

Evidently blacks vote PNC BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.  You can furnish your opinion as to why they do so if they need an apology from them.

If the PNC was so open to Indians, and not just to a small elite group then why is Kari implying that this apology is so important to get Indians to vote?

What really is this PNC apology supposed to achieve?  Votes from blacks? Well they already have this?  Votes from Indians?  Well you claim that the PNC wasn't hostile to them. 

Based on your description, the vast majority of the Indians who consider the PNC to be hostile to them are deluded? 

Maybe you ought to tell them how open the PNC was towards Indians, and not just the token elite few.  I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear the reactions that you will get.

Carib J

How many times you need the same explanation?

How many times do YOU need the same explanation.  As often as you write your rubbish I will refute it.

Now run off and tell the folks in RH that when they say that the PNC was racist against Indians that it is all in their head and not true.

let me explain something u big belly PUNK . . .

if u want to go THERE with de 'parents & family' throw down . . . i can go THERE

it's not going to be pretty . . . and u know how it's going to end up, rite?

WORD to the reckless and not-so-wise . . .

You need to understand   that the match which you have in your pocket is wet.

Are you implying that blacks are not talented or qualified, because one would think so look at the top echelon of most govt controlled entities in Guyana?  Even the PPP controlled race commission in a study noted that Africans are mainly located in the middle and lower levels in the public sector, while Indians are concentrated at the top.  Note that the guy who ran that, Juan Edghill, is now a PPP minister.

Stop stammer!!

Chief having a mental breakdown.  OK its fine to speak about racism against blacks in the USA and South Africa, but totally wrong to do so in Guyana.

Chief have they run you out of RH already when you went to tell them that Burnham loved Indians and that if they think he was a racist they are wrong?