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Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

Now you will make Nehru cuss and go on bad.

Chief
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Bloomberg is a A BILLIONAIRE but he still wanted an illegal 3rd term Are you naive or just plain  stupid???

Nehru you starting to sound like Carib J.

 

Why don't you admit that Moses has guts and balls!! Had he wanted to kiss up to Jagdeo he would have still been a Minister. He stood up to the thieves.

 

Today he decided to make a bold move and let's wish him well.

 

 

CHief, I am not denying all of that but why would anyone leave a Party 2 weeks before an Election and JOIN another Party?? Also, why would one form a Union two months before a Major National Election?? You think it is the Guyanese People he is thinking about?

Nehru
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

Now you will make Nehru cuss and go on bad.

Why?  He is entitled to his opinion. For him Islam is SUPERIOR to other Religion and in America he is entitled to that opinion.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

Now you will make Nehru cuss and go on bad.

Why?  He is entitled to his opinion. For him Islam is SUPERIOR to other Religion and in America he is entitled to that opinion.

But it isn't that a fact what he wrote?

Chief
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Bloomberg is a A BILLIONAIRE but he still wanted an illegal 3rd term Are you naive or just plain  stupid???

Nehru you starting to sound like Carib J.

 

Why don't you admit that Moses has guts and balls!! Had he wanted to kiss up to Jagdeo he would have still been a Minister. He stood up to the thieves.

 

Today he decided to make a bold move and let's wish him well.

 

 

CHief, I am not denying all of that but why would anyone leave a Party 2 weeks before an Election and JOIN another Party?? Also, why would one form a Union two months before a Major National Election?? You think it is the Guyanese People he is thinking about?

The electorate will decide.

Let's pray and hope they do not bite the PPP bait and vote race.

Chief
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

Now you will make Nehru cuss and go on bad.

Why?  He is entitled to his opinion. For him Islam is SUPERIOR to other Religion and in America he is entitled to that opinion.

But it isn't that a fact what he wrote?

No it is NOT but in his Islamic Superior thinking he believes that.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Bloomberg is a A BILLIONAIRE but he still wanted an illegal 3rd term Are you naive or just plain  stupid???

Nehru you starting to sound like Carib J.

 

Why don't you admit that Moses has guts and balls!! Had he wanted to kiss up to Jagdeo he would have still been a Minister. He stood up to the thieves.

 

Today he decided to make a bold move and let's wish him well.

 

 

CHief, I am not denying all of that but why would anyone leave a Party 2 weeks before an Election and JOIN another Party?? Also, why would one form a Union two months before a Major National Election?? You think it is the Guyanese People he is thinking about?

The electorate will decide.

Let's pray and hope they do not bite the PPP bait and vote race.

That is exactly what I have been saying. On May 12th the wishes of the Guyanese People will be announced.

Nehru
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by caribny:

 Nagamootoo was a PPP spy sent to destroy the AFC, because if he isn't then he must have some serious issue.

CARIBJ

 

YOU ARE LOOSING YOUR MIND!!

CHECK INTO A HOSPITAL. THIS OBSESSION WITH BLACKMAN HAS TO BE UNTOP IS DESTORYING YOU.

 

Since yesterday you are trying any and everything but what you just wrote about the Hon Mr Nagamootoo is not only absurd but it reveal who you really are .

A foucking low life racist.

So why did Nagamootoo, who should know better, make such a dumb move?

 

 

 

The obvious answer. He wants to return to the Cabinet.

 

And The Honorable Prime Minister and First Vice President of the Republic of Guyana Mr. Moses Nagamootoo sounds kinda nice.

To be fair, that is not Moses Nagamootoo's motive in this move. He made a calculation based on his reading of the political dynamic in Guyana, one which I question from afar. Maybe Moses has a better reading that those who do not like the merger. However this notion that Moses is a selfish politician is far from the truth for a man whose political struggles in the trenches and fights against corruption are legendary.

 

Let's just say he made a political calculation and leave it at that. Diagnosing this move with other retrofitting misses who he is. He cares about the common man. He is an accomplished Attorney who leaves money on the table for his work with the indigent - that I know. He is a studied author and an intellect. He is well-traveled and understands the common man. Whatever political moves he makes are not governed by him wanting some esoteric seat at the table. Moses has done much without having to be a  Parliamentarian.

 

Sir,

 

Do not take me wrong by misinterpreting my brevity. I in no way impugn his motives.

 

Let me be clear, he obviously wants to change things and I fear genuinely believes he can do so via this route. He thinks he can sell this alliance, the alliance will win, and he can serve Guyana best as PM.

 

I don't doubt he would make a great PM. Though I doubt two principal assumptions of his.

 

No 1. Indos will cast a vote for any coolie under the PNC banner

 

No 2. Even if No 1 happens, PM Nagamootoo will be allowed a "partnership" role in the resulting government. The PNC does not have the organizational culture or the past history (recent or otherwise) to suggest they are anything else but an authoritarian party that is incapable of being primus inter pares or just inter pares.

Thank you Sir.

You don't even know what you're thanking the man for.....

 

as Cainsta would say...tarass...

Kari
Originally Posted by Chief:
Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

Now you will make Nehru cuss and go on bad.

That's if he understands English......

Kari
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
 

 

The obvious answer. He wants to return to the Cabinet.

 

And The Honorable Prime Minister and First Vice President of the Republic of Guyana Mr. Moses Nagamootoo sounds kinda nice.

To be fair, that is not Moses Nagamootoo's motive in this move. He made a calculation based on his reading of the political dynamic in Guyana, one which I question from afar. Maybe Moses has a better reading that those who do not like the merger. However this notion that Moses is a selfish politician is far from the truth for a man whose political struggles in the trenches and fights against corruption are legendary.

 

Let's just say he made a political calculation and leave it at that. Diagnosing this move with other retrofitting misses who he is. He cares about the common man. He is an accomplished Attorney who leaves money on the table for his work with the indigent - that I know. He is a studied author and an intellect. He is well-traveled and understands the common man. Whatever political moves he makes are not governed by him wanting some esoteric seat at the table. Moses has done much without having to be a  Parliamentarian.

if Nagamootoo was corrupt yuji and others would be screaming that out by now. So we know he isn't corrupt, so doesn't desire power to be wealthy.

 

The man might well desire power because he has a sincere intent to be a transformative leader, in the way that Obama also sees himself (we also know that he isn't corrupt because he also has very deadly enemies).

 

Having said that this desire to occupy a top post led to a very risky move.

 

Nagamootoo is going to have to blunt the PPP race card, and show his worth to APNU by demonstrating that he does have support independent of APNU.  Optics are important and will be critical to blunt the level of confusion that must be occurring within the rural Indian community.

 

Maybe if he can show strong support, Indians sitting on the fence might elect to also take a risk that an APNU gov't with Nagamootoo playing a powerful role, will not be the PNC as they perceive it to be. And that, even though the agreement gives Granger the right to veto AFC initiatives, that a vocal Nagamootoo might well suggest to Granger that maybe he might best be careful in how he exercises that power.

 

But what I do know is that not showing power gives the bully horn to the PPP who will define this move to the rural Indian voter.

 

What is good about this agreement is that it doesn't stir up ethnic paranoia among Afro Guyanese as they see Granger in charge.  They know full well that APNU will never win unless it is with the help of some Indian support, so they will endorse Nagamootoo as PM, especially as I don't think that there was a strong PNC candidate for that position.

 

Three factors will determine the election.

 

1.  Most importantly the rural Indian reaction;  will they take a leap of faith with Nagamootoo, or stay home (depriving the PPP of their votes), or will full panic set in and the PPP gets their votes based on the "less bad" principle?

 

2.  Will the prospect of victory excite the African/mixed voters to the extent that younger ones register and turn out to vote?  South G/town has huge numbers of non voters.

 

3. Whether indications that a more educated and financially independent Amerindian is now emerging, and no longer inclined to vote as the tochao tells them to.  The AFC already holds Region 8, though with very few votes.  Higher turn out is important. They should focus on taking Regions 1 and 9 from the PPP.  They should reduce the PPP vote in Region 7, where APNU holds the African and mixed Bartica end, by focusing on the more Amerindian regions where the PPP gets votes.

 

 

Both APNU and the AFC have work to do and Nagamootoo just made that task even more difficult.

FM
Originally Posted by Kari:

The hubristic narrative of Indian superiority is not as widespread as some may think. It may be confined to an economic and social class with some extreme religious undertones, and is confined to some quarters in North America, India ad enclaves around the world. From my experience in Guyana and in the diaspora the Muslim contingent of the Indo-Caribbean is less prone to this narrative as it is a religion comprised of all races.

 You are perfectly correct.  The African vs. Indian tension is really an African vs. HINDU conflict.  Blacks do differentiate between Hindus and Muslims and assume that the latter are less ethnically exclusive, for the reasons that you describe, and particularly since there has been increased involvement by blacks within Islam in both Trinidad and Guyana.

 

 

The whole thrust of my argument was to deny any suggestions that there are more feelings of hatred and superiority among Indians towards Africans.  Indeed there are sufficient evidence that such sentiments exist within in BOTH communities towards each other.  This is especially evident among the elites of both the African and Indian communities. 

 

Indeed when the PPP came in with many of their leaders coming from a rural background, many elite Africans had huge fun at the rumors  that Janet had to teach some of them basic table etiquette.  The  notion was what you expect from a "collie" government.

 

 

 

I happen to believe that most people aren't motivated by hatreds, and most people have their own problems and so lack the time and energy to feel superior to other groups.

 

The issue as it impacts the day to day runnings in Guyana, which then leads to their political behavior, is the perception that Indians are clannish (which isn't the same as being racist), and the shock of Indians at hearing this, leading to denials that they indeed are.  Witness the daily dynamic directed towards me.

 

A black man will jump into the first decent looking taxi that he sees when he arrives at GEO.  All he wants is a taxi ride and selects the first honest and clean looking driver he can find.  This without regard to race.

 

Black taxi drivers argue that Indians seek out Indian taxi drivers first, and only when they can't find one, do they select the non Indians. 

 

Is the Indian doing so because he hates blacks or feels superior to them, or is he even conscious of the fact that he is pre selecting taxis by the race of the drivers? Probably not, because he has embedded within him the notion of ethnic exclusion, so he is predisposed to see the Indian taxi drivers and to not see the blacks ones, until no Indians are left.

 

The black man will then say "you see dem collie racial".  He will then react in a certain manner that will convince the Indian that he is hostile.  There is your African and Indian ethnic paranoia right there.

 

Did it start because some one hated or felt superior to some one else for racial reasons?  We don't know.

 

Now extend this reaction of the black man to Indian behavior when he notes that the vast majority of control in the political and economic realms is in the hands of Indian elites. 

 

Do you think that he will take the time to analyze the degree to which the existing economic and political system might be exclusionary, based not just on race, but also on class (note tenant rice farmer vs. rice miller dilemma), so that the non affluent Indian isn't any better off?  NO.

 

Will the non affluent Indian not also get some psychic comfort and protection from an Indian dominated political and economic system, even if he benefits marginally from it? This to gain a sense of protection from perceived black hostility. YES.

 

So here I am using a simple incident, which most likely was not racist in intent, but certain had racist impact on a day when most arriving passengers are Indians, to illustrate how ethnic paranoias develop.

 

The usual chatter from Guyanese that "we all get along, and its only the politicians are to blame", as naÃŊve and hypocritical.  People vote their fears.  Africans don't especially like the PNC, nor do Indians especially like the PPP yet they have remained loyal to them for FOUR generations now. Why? 

 

Because Guyanese don't vote their hopes.  They vote their fears.  And in a society with two powerful and large MINORITY it gets more deadly than in Trinidad (with its economically powerful, even if numerical insignificant white and near white creole class), or in Suriname where the existence of FOUR large ethnic groups removes the probability of any being able to dominate.

FM
Originally Posted by cain:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by Chief:

They should allowed the people to vote and then form the Government.

Chief, a post-election coalition is not allowed under the Constitution. However your point may be that the individual parties at this juncture is greater than a combined one. That is really the question I've asked myself from the time I heard of the possible pre-election coalition. will the AFC's strength be whittled away by an electorate that still thinks binary - blackman party and coolieman party?

Agreed, and its not often that I agree with you.

I don't agree.

Cain .....90% of the Indians & Blacks think Exactly like you.

We are not Racist....

We only want what is best for Guyana.

 

If the remaining 10 % choose to hold on to PPP- PNC Race & Coolie/ Black politics they have a choice to make.....

and this is their only choice available....

(1) Vote for PPP....or (2) Stay home and do not vote.

Their Vote or Refusal to vote would not affect the Results...

10 % Racist cannot dictate for 90% non-racist

This is not about PPP or PNC ....or Coolie or Black.

PNC DO NOT EXIST ANYMORE....

ALL THE DREAMS OF MONKEY MOUNTAIN HAS EVAPORATED

 

Nut-butter & Vaseline is not Important.....

This is what Kwame, Yuji, Councie, Mannie, Bharat, Lamumba, Hamilton, CaribJ, Kit Nascimento, Bynoe and Dem_Guy cannot understand.

 

Don't you guys think the voters in Guyana would like to see the racial differences be squashed?

90% see but 10% Racist Blind.....and if all 10% vote for PPP the outcome will be the same.

 

This is the time to show it can be done.

No one cares what the Nut-Butter or Vaseline Crew Love, Long for, Support, Defend or Practice.

 

Rather than fighting it, embrace the dam thing.

 

FM

 

 

Addendum to Breaking down this agreement-

 

1. AFC presently has 7 seats.

The agreement gives AFC12 seats win, lose or draw.

 

2. AFC gets Head of the presidential secretariat,

who is secretary to cabinet

and secretary of the Defence Board.

 

3. AFC gets Prime minister with increase power.

The prime minister will now chair cabinet,

is responsible for identifying ministers

and structuring the ministries.

 

4. AFC gets 40 percent of all ministerial positions.

 

5. AFC gets the ministries of

Agriculture,

Natural Resources,

Home Affairs and

Tourism.

 

6. Civil society is promised

to be Leader of the List of Representatives and

Speaker of the National Assembly.

 

7. APNU gets the presidency with reduced powers.

 

8. AFC gets Two Vice presidents

 

9. APNU gets One Vice president

 

10. APNU gets 60 percent of the cabinet which includes

foreign affairs and

finance.

 

11. The parliamentary configuration of the APNU and AFC

does not equal 60/40.

 

12. AFC went into the negotiation

the smaller partner

but came out holding

all the critical power and

has secured more seats,

win lose or draw.

 

Now let us hear from the

Funny Fellas & Crab louse

FM

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