quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
No to racism from Kidmost or Caribj.

Just to let you know Kiddie was the one who advocated that blacks boycott Indian businesses. Not me.

And I stand by my contention that no businessman will tolerate any one advocating that he not have access to a market. True most likely he will only hire blacks in menial positions (he thinks because they are loyal, one in fact they just have no choice) if he does at all, but he still wants black dollars.

I once had a talk with an old PPP comrade about the splitting up of the country along racial lines. It was at a time when there was a group in Berbice advocating that Berbice split from Guyana.

The old PPP comrade looked at me and said. "If the blacks go then who is going the buy the coolie man's products" Then the old PPP comrade started to shout. "Every coolie man have chicken growing in his back yard there is no way that he is going to buy chicken from another coolie man".

Well that was the end of the racial seperation discussion.

If they got such an abundance of chicken, how come chicken price so high?

That is a good question Cain. I should have asked the old comrade that but I guess I was afraid that he take the bottle of rum off the table and hit me in the head with it. Nothing gets a die hard PPP or PNC old timer more mad than talking about splitting the country up along racial lines.

Oh rass,dem boys would slit each other throat ova de price ah chicken? hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj,
It must be really upsetting for you to see the rise of Brazil as one of the world powers.

I am not upset because until Brazil learns to stop using skin color as criteria for social progress it will always remain POOR. 50% of its peoples are not white.

If the average WHITE Brazilian only has primary school education Brazil will remain POOR. Most non white Brazilians never even finished primary school!!!!!Even Guyana does better than that.

Don't be ridiculous!
Guyana doesn't do better than any country in the western hemisphere but Haiti.

Brazilians are less educated than Guyanese. That indeed is a fact. Almost all Guyanese have had at least a primary school education, and this has been true for almost 50 years.

In Brazil this is not true. And definitely not for their nonwhite populations.

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ars-schooling-adults

What is the purpose of having long years of something that is of bad quality?

Look at the results:
List of Countries by Human Development Index

Besides, nobody even bother to get quality of life stats for Guyana:
List of Countries by Quality of Life Index

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
never ceases to amaze how people like you who are supposed to be better and know better indulge and perp such utter bullshit . now we know why guyana is in the shi1hole !

what enrages you? The prospect of blacks doing in Guyana what you advocate that they should do in the USA.

Been there tried that and those who urged this were called racists by business people. Why so if their black customers werent needed?

you are so drowned in ethnic perpectives that you have become blinded. Blacks in Guyana were led to the wrong trough by the PNC . Cooperatives failed because the PNC never intended it to work for blacks but to satisfy political objectives.
It has been proven that blacks have the capacity to start and prosper in business but blacks like you teach them to blame others for their failure while doing nothing to organize them. I see many blacks in the USA conducting successful businesses as well as in the caribbean. I never said anything about boycott ! I said if blacks supported black enterprises there is greater chance of survival of black entrepeneurship . The problem in Guyana is everything has become politicized therefore objectivity gets lost when people of different ethnicities engage in conversation and people like you make racist inputs . The PPP and PNC have thrived on ethnic insecurities , suspicians etc . At the turn of the 20th century Indians organized through the BGEIA , in the 1920's Chinese organized through the Chinese Association and so on. Look , learn and implement what is tried and proven .

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:


http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ars-schooling-adults

What is the purpose of having long years of something that is of bad quality?

Look at the results:
List of Countries by Human Development Index

Besides, nobody even bother to get quality of life stats for Guyana:
List of Countries by Quality of Life Index

[/QUOTE]

Lucas Braazil comes # 75. Isnt that kind of low for a super power? I mean even Kazakhstan beats Brazil.

As to the other index. Well I guesss if you think that attending church and not getting divorced is a sound criteria. Personally I take the HDI. Brazil is 75.Waywaywaywaywaywaywayway behidn France and the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
you are so drowned in ethnic perpectives that you have become blinded. Blacks in Guyana were led to the wrong trough by the PNC . Cooperatives failed because the PNC never intended it to work for blacks but to satisfy political objectives.
It has been proven that blacks have the capacity to start and prosper in business but blacks like you teach them to blame others for their failure while doing nothing to organize them. I see many blacks in the USA conducting successful businesses as well as in the caribbean. I never said anything about boycott ! I said if blacks supported black enterprises there is greater chance of survival of black entrepeneurship . The problem in Guyana is everything has become politicized therefore objectivity gets lost when people of different ethnicities engage in conversation and people like you make racist inputs . The PPP and PNC have thrived on ethnic insecurities , suspicians etc . At the turn of the 20th century Indians organized through the BGEIA , in the 1920's Chinese organized through the Chinese Association and so on. Look , learn and implement what is tried and proven .

You know I said only a few days ago that Burnham was very bad for blacks. AfroGuyanese, like most blacks descended from the TransAtlantic slave trade, are very individualistic and have scant interest in collective effort. So coops were doomed to fail, especially when directed by officialdom and not by the people themselves.

However what the hell does that have to do with whrther blacks in 2011 face racism directed against them or not? Why should they tolerate racism?

Should white employers discriminate against IndoGuyanese in NYC, even though the vast majority of them work for whites....as the Indo businesses cannot absorb most of them at decent wages and benefiots (how many Liberty Ave businesses offer health insurance and pension plans?).

So why should Indo businesses boycott blacks as employees even though they scramble behind them as customers.

There are reasons why blacks are under represented as owners of sizeable businesses in Guyana. This being historical and cultural.

That should have nothing to do with whether blacks who have the desire and the ability and the attitude, yet face challenges in obtaining employment and promotions in both the public and private sectors in Guyana.

And a man like you who used to in 2002 threaten to shoot black people from the barrel of your gun, or what ever nonsense you used to peddle, should be the last person accusing any one of racism

I am now a racist because I told you that when others suggested that in Guyana blacks should only buy from blacks (so will then refuse to buy from nonblacks) they were called racists by Indo businessmen who saw their profits dwindling as a result.

Afro businessmen will probably be no happier as it will then give legitimacy for non blacks (including the PPP) not to use them. Given who controls the public and private sectors Afro businessmen will be net losers.

A non racist would say that people should patronize businesses based on whether they offer quality product/service/price/location etc.

Similarly a non racist would say that people should be hired and promoted on the basis of education/skills/attitude/aptitude and not the ethnicity of the owner.

Apparently you fail that test.

BTW if blacks support businesses because of race then they are boycotting businesses owned by others so you advocate that Indo businesses should be boycotted. Clearly most Indo businessmen have a huge problem with your suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

What is the purpose of having long years of something that is of bad quality?

Look at the results:
List of Countries by Human Development Index

Besides, nobody even bother to get quality of life stats for Guyana:
List of Countries by Quality of Life Index

Lucas Braazil comes # 75. Isnt that kind of low for a super power? I mean even Kazakhstan beats Brazil.

As to the other index. Well I guesss if you think that attending church and not getting divorced is a sound criteria. Personally I take the HDI. Brazil is 75.Waywaywaywaywaywaywayway behidn France and the USA.

China comes 91 and everyone agrees it is on the path to superpowerdom. The same thing happens with Brazil. In 10 years those figures will show a completely different picture. Yet, I believe nothing will have changed for Guyana.

To start a business and run it as a success you have to have two things. (1) Access to capital (2) stable set of consumers willing to buy your products.

Now the question how can a poor man get the capital he needs if he cannot get a job becuase of racism?

I once heard a very wealth Guyanese timber dealer describe how he entered business. It was at a party a long time. He said that after he got married he borrowed money from his mother in law to pay for the cutting down of timber from an island. He had calculated that he could sell the timber from the island and make a profit. Now that was his access to capital which he invested and made a profit which he then invested to start his very successful company.

If you poor and you are not fortunate to have a mother in law to lend you money then the only way you can get money to start a business is by working at a paid job.

During Burnham time I notice this. Burnham and his policies created many monopoly situations for businesses. For example: There was only two major curry power companies in Guyana. One soft drinks company, One cooking oil company, one chicken feed company. Two alchol making companies etc.

So during Burnham time if you had access to capital to start a business and to bribe them PNC crooks then you have to be a real dunce for that business to fail.

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:
To start a business and run it as a success you have to have two things. (1) Access to capital (2) stable set of consumers willing to buy your products.

Now the question how can a poor man get the capital he needs if he cannot get a job becuase of racism?

I once heard a very wealth Guyanese timber dealer describe how he entered business. It was at a party a long time. He said that after he got married he borrowed money from his mother in law to pay for the cutting down of timber from an island. He had calculated that he could sell the timber from the island and make a profit. Now that was his access to capital which he invested and made a profit which he then invested to start his very successful company.

If you poor and you are not fortunate to have a mother in law to lend you money then the only way you can get money to start a business is by working at a paid job.

During Burnham time I notice this. Burnham and his policies created many monopoly situations for businesses. For example: There was only two major curry power companies in Guyana. One soft drinks company, One cooking oil company, one chicken feed company. Two alchol making companies etc.

So during Burnham time if you had access to capital to start a business and to bribe them PNC crooks then you have to be a real dunce for that business to fail.

Racism and social discrimination. Even if the poor gets a job he is very likely to be paid a starving salary which doesn't pay the food he has to eat.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

I soke the truth.

Indians, chinese, latinos are finding jobs in America only the blacks can't. WHY? Niger, why?

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

I soke the truth.

Indians, chinese, latinos are finding jobs in America only the blacks can't. WHY? Niger, why?

You spoke like the typical racist PPPite. Indians Latinos etc are eating crapola in their country so they are the new gardeners and baby sitters. Most First generation Guyanese were manual laborers taking jobs Blacks use to do and for less.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

I soke the truth.

Indians, chinese, latinos are finding jobs in America only the blacks can't. WHY? Niger, why?

You spoke like the typical racist PPPite. Indians Latinos etc are eating crapola in their country so they are the new gardeners and baby sitters. Most First generation Guyanese were manual laborers taking jobs Blacks use to do and for less.

At least they are not living off the state.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

I soke the truth.

Indians, chinese, latinos are finding jobs in America only the blacks can't. WHY? Niger, why?

You spoke like the typical racist PPPite. Indians Latinos etc are eating crapola in their country so they are the new gardeners and baby sitters. Most First generation Guyanese were manual laborers taking jobs Blacks use to do and for less.

At least they are not living off the state.

You are too lazy to even try to clarify your ignorance. The welfare roles are swamped with Hispanics and a high percentage of Guyanese in NY are getting some government support. Further, welfare in the US Is very limited. Most of the wealth proportionately that were lost in the housing crisis came out of the black community. They were doing quite nicely until the mortgage industry collapse.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana. I believe the CBC's job fair across the country indicate that black people want jobs no less than white folks.

You havent even told us what unemployment for blacks in Guyana is. Dont include people scuffling on the side walk as employed either.

Tell them to get off their asses as Bill cosby said and start looking for jobs. The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Don't blame Cosby for your racism.

I soke the truth.

Indians, chinese, latinos are finding jobs in America only the blacks can't. WHY? Niger, why?

You spoke like the typical racist PPPite. Indians Latinos etc are eating crapola in their country so they are the new gardeners and baby sitters. Most First generation Guyanese were manual laborers taking jobs Blacks use to do and for less.

At least they are not living off the state.

You are too lazy to even try to clarify your ignorance. The welfare roles are swamped with Hispanics and a high percentage of Guyanese in NY are getting some government support. Further, welfare in the US Is very limited. Most of the wealth proportionately that were lost in the housing crisis came out of the black community. They were doing quite nicely until the mortgage industry collapse.

This is what you should have written in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is what you should have written in the first place.

I did not since the article said job creation was the problem among other things but you missed that. Instead you insist they ought to be going for jobs you believe exist in the papers.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
This is what you should have written in the first place.

I did not since the article said job creation was the problem among other things but you missed that. Instead you insist they ought to be going for jobs you believe exist in the papers.

I would like to think that these job ads are for real. There are also tons of thinks people can do to create jobs for themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
you are so drowned in ethnic perpectives that you have become blinded. Blacks in Guyana were led to the wrong trough by the PNC . Cooperatives failed because the PNC never intended it to work for blacks but to satisfy political objectives.
It has been proven that blacks have the capacity to start and prosper in business but blacks like you teach them to blame others for their failure while doing nothing to organize them. I see many blacks in the USA conducting successful businesses as well as in the caribbean. I never said anything about boycott ! I said if blacks supported black enterprises there is greater chance of survival of black entrepeneurship . The problem in Guyana is everything has become politicized therefore objectivity gets lost when people of different ethnicities engage in conversation and people like you make racist inputs . The PPP and PNC have thrived on ethnic insecurities , suspicians etc . At the turn of the 20th century Indians organized through the BGEIA , in the 1920's Chinese organized through the Chinese Association and so on. Look , learn and implement what is tried and proven .

You know I said only a few days ago that Burnham was very bad for blacks. AfroGuyanese, like most blacks descended from the TransAtlantic slave trade, are very individualistic and have scant interest in collective effort. So coops were doomed to fail, especially when directed by officialdom and not by the people themselves.

However what the hell does that have to do with whrther blacks in 2011 face racism directed against them or not? Why should they tolerate racism?

Should white employers discriminate against IndoGuyanese in NYC, even though the vast majority of them work for whites....as the Indo businesses cannot absorb most of them at decent wages and benefiots (how many Liberty Ave businesses offer health insurance and pension plans?).

So why should Indo businesses boycott blacks as employees even though they scramble behind them as customers.

There are reasons why blacks are under represented as owners of sizeable businesses in Guyana. This being historical and cultural.

That should have nothing to do with whether blacks who have the desire and the ability and the attitude, yet face challenges in obtaining employment and promotions in both the public and private sectors in Guyana.

And a man like you who used to in 2002 threaten to shoot black people from the barrel of your gun, or what ever nonsense you used to peddle, should be the last person accusing any one of racism

I am now a racist because I told you that when others suggested that in Guyana blacks should only buy from blacks (so will then refuse to buy from nonblacks) they were called racists by Indo businessmen who saw their profits dwindling as a result.

Afro businessmen will probably be no happier as it will then give legitimacy for non blacks (including the PPP) not to use them. Given who controls the public and private sectors Afro businessmen will be net losers.

A non racist would say that people should patronize businesses based on whether they offer quality product/service/price/location etc.

Similarly a non racist would say that people should be hired and promoted on the basis of education/skills/attitude/aptitude and not the ethnicity of the owner.

Apparently you fail that test.

BTW if blacks support businesses because of race then they are boycotting businesses owned by others so you advocate that Indo businesses should be boycotted. Clearly most Indo businessmen have a huge problem with your suggestion.

To state the cooperativism is alien to africa and people of african descent is laughable. It has prevailed and succeeded in most cultures. The reason why Burnham's failed is simply because the entire thing was too politicized.

Why should blacks tolerate racism and discrimination within their own race ? The English still sh1t on the Irish and north indians still view south indians as inferior ! Arab muslems still see black muslims as inferior . Spain still does not recognize latin americans as spanish hence Hispanics or spics . African natives do not respect afro americans and indian nationals view indo caribbeans as ****** indians and so on and so on . Point is , when there is self respect and communal cooperation there is power and strength . I tell you now afro americans find africans as comedic beings and jungle bunnies and I sh1t you not.

Employers discriminate no matter their ethnicity simply because of stereotyping. Most of Liberty Ave as with the majority of small business and Mom & Pop businesses cannot afford federal minimum wages nor insurance and pensions and anyone who thinks in these terms are simply beating their heads against a wall. Get real , pull your head out of your a55 and see that the social economies of yesteryear are gone and are not coming back so get creative and innovative .

Dude black leadership have continously failed blacks and continue to do so and folks like blame others for their demise . Why should the indo or white be blamed ???? The public sector in Guyana and USA have always been more lenient to blacks while the private sector is uncontrolled and unregulated therefore , anyone can have access in this sector .

In 2002 I never threatened to shoot black people , I threatened to shoot anyone who continued to violate the rights and security of east indians , who by the way are pu55ies ! I said if the PNC and their surrogates choose/elect to get even with the PPP by attacking indians they indians must fight back . SO F#@K ME IF THAT IS BEING RACIST !

Moron I never said blacks should not buy from indians I said blacks need to support blacks business just as the Chinese and Portuguese did which made they a significant force of the private sector .

You can put all the twists and spins you wish on things the fact is, people like you fuel blacks to be enraged and hate and be dependent on handouts and alms when in fact they have the capacity to grow and expand in the private sector . BTW , my electrician is a black jamaican and I refer all my customers and client to him why ? because he damn f#@king good , reliable , honest and professional . I do not use Indoa guyanese contractors because they are scamps and full of cock . Frankly , I dont give a sh1t what you and others think what I say is a friken fact....

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
China comes 91 .

Compare China's technology and Brazil. China has the ability to compete with major industrial nations.

Brazil sells commodities and confines its manufacturing base mainly to domestic and neighboring markets. That is aside from Embraer.

Brazil will not be a super power. China has 1.3 billion people. China's middle class is much bigger than Brazil's. Brazil a mere 200M.

China has the world's second largest economy and is teh worlds largest exporter.

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:

So during Burnham time if you had access to capital to start a business and to bribe them PNC crooks then you have to be a real dunce for that business to fail.

Thats is quite true. Note that Burnham didnt care who had the money to fund the PNC and to keep his corrupt boys happy.

To say that Burnham tried to help AfroGuyanese is hilarious. He almost totally destroyed them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
The newspapers are full with job vacancies.

Rama I assume you are agreeing that IndoGuyanese are lazy because many are also unemployed. Yet others flee to little rocks to survive.

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
To state the cooperativism is alien to africa and people of african descent is laughable. It has prevailed and succeeded in most cultures. The reason why Burnham's failed is simply because the entire thing was too politicized.

Why should blacks tolerate racism and discrimination within their own race ? The English still sh1t on the Irish and north indians still view south indians as inferior ! Arab muslems still see black muslims as inferior . Spain still does not recognize latin americans as spanish hence Hispanics or spics . African natives do not respect afro americans and indian nationals view indo caribbeans as ****** indians and so on and so on . Point is , when there is self respect and communal cooperation there is power and strength . I tell you now afro americans find africans as comedic beings and jungle bunnies and I sh1t you not.

Employers discriminate no matter their ethnicity simply because of stereotyping. Most of Liberty Ave as with the majority of small business and Mom & Pop businesses cannot afford federal minimum wages nor insurance and pensions and anyone who thinks in these terms are simply beating their heads against a wall. Get real , pull your head out of your a55 and see that the social economies of yesteryear are gone and are not coming back so get creative and innovative .

Dude black leadership have continously failed blacks and continue to do so and folks like blame others for their demise . Why should the indo or white be blamed ???? The public sector in Guyana and USA have always been more lenient to blacks while the private sector is uncontrolled and unregulated therefore , anyone can have access in this sector .

In 2002 I never threatened to shoot black people , I threatened to shoot anyone who continued to violate the rights and security of east indians , who by the way are pu55ies ! I said if the PNC and their surrogates choose/elect to get even with the PPP by attacking indians they indians must fight back . SO F#@K ME IF THAT IS BEING RACIST !

Moron I never said blacks should not buy from indians I said blacks need to support blacks business just as the Chinese and Portuguese did which made they a significant force of the private sector .

You can put all the twists and spins you wish on things the fact is, people like you fuel blacks to be enraged and hate and be dependent on handouts and alms when in fact they have the capacity to grow and expand in the private sector . BTW , my electrician is a black jamaican and I refer all my customers and client to him why ? because he damn f#@king good , reliable , honest and professional . I do not use Indoa guyanese contractors because they are scamps and full of cock . Frankly , I dont give a sh1t what you and others think what I say is a friken fact....

This is where you go wrong. There are no "Africans" in Guyana if you mean a link to continental Africa. What ever culture of cooperation existed among Africans in Africa was destroyed by slavery and colonialism. To say that AfroGuyanese and other TransAtlantic blacks have a tradition in cooperation because their ancestors in Africa did is irrelevant. Maybe they did in 1650 but many years have passed and the authorities (INCLUDING BURNHAM) made sure that any culture of cooperation between TransAtlantic blacks was destroyed.

Slavery and colonialism taught blacks not to trust each other and to find individual ways to survive. This is the base of the culture. This is what the people know and to introduce a concept which is alien to them is a nonstarter.

I also wonder why when ever the topic of blacks come up you always get to black leadership.

Well what leadership to Indians in RH have? Ed Ahmad? Should they be blamed for this? No. Like every body else, including blacks, they will do their best with what ever tools they have at their disposal and if any one tries to block their progress using race this should be dealt with, whether it was the PNC or whether it is some white employer in NYC.

And where do you get off on the notion that blacks are some sheep led by called "leaders". Another trait we learnt in slavery is we dont trust our leaders. Even MLK had to struggle mightily to win the support of his people. There were many who didnt want to cooperate with him.

If some one uses race as a criteria to determine who they hire, who they purchase goods and services from or who they offer contracts to THEY ARE RACISTS!!!!

You have a jamaican electrician because he is good and honest. Yet you endorse racists in Guyana who would not give him an opportunity becaus ehe is of another ethnic group. You then suggest that he should not protest against this. The facts are it is not only those who are discriminated against who suffer, but its those who accept low qualityy work, or high cost services instead of utlizing those who desreve patronage, or employment.

Yes I agree that small IndoGuyaneee business cant offer competitive wages and benefits. This is why most IndoGuyanese who can do better find work elsewhere. Now suppose the white man told them go find work from your own people and leave us to hire only whites? You would be the loudest to scream RACE!! Because even though you own your own business if you depend mainly on IndoGuyanese for patronage your success is tied to their incomes and if their incomes are tied to impoverished businesses than that means they have less to spend on you. And if you DONT depend on IndoGuyanese then if others told you to get lost because you are not of their group, regardless as to how deserving you may be then you lose.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
To state the cooperativism is alien to africa and people of african descent is laughable. It has prevailed and succeeded in most cultures. The reason why Burnham's failed is simply because the entire thing was too politicized.

Why should blacks tolerate racism and discrimination within their own race ? The English still sh1t on the Irish and north indians still view south indians as inferior ! Arab muslems still see black muslims as inferior . Spain still does not recognize latin americans as spanish hence Hispanics or spics . African natives do not respect afro americans and indian nationals view indo caribbeans as ****** indians and so on and so on . Point is , when there is self respect and communal cooperation there is power and strength . I tell you now afro americans find africans as comedic beings and jungle bunnies and I sh1t you not.

Employers discriminate no matter their ethnicity simply because of stereotyping. Most of Liberty Ave as with the majority of small business and Mom & Pop businesses cannot afford federal minimum wages nor insurance and pensions and anyone who thinks in these terms are simply beating their heads against a wall. Get real , pull your head out of your a55 and see that the social economies of yesteryear are gone and are not coming back so get creative and innovative .

Dude black leadership have continously failed blacks and continue to do so and folks like blame others for their demise . Why should the indo or white be blamed ???? The public sector in Guyana and USA have always been more lenient to blacks while the private sector is uncontrolled and unregulated therefore , anyone can have access in this sector .

In 2002 I never threatened to shoot black people , I threatened to shoot anyone who continued to violate the rights and security of east indians , who by the way are pu55ies ! I said if the PNC and their surrogates choose/elect to get even with the PPP by attacking indians they indians must fight back . SO F#@K ME IF THAT IS BEING RACIST !

Moron I never said blacks should not buy from indians I said blacks need to support blacks business just as the Chinese and Portuguese did which made they a significant force of the private sector .

You can put all the twists and spins you wish on things the fact is, people like you fuel blacks to be enraged and hate and be dependent on handouts and alms when in fact they have the capacity to grow and expand in the private sector . BTW , my electrician is a black jamaican and I refer all my customers and client to him why ? because he damn f#@king good , reliable , honest and professional . I do not use Indoa guyanese contractors because they are scamps and full of cock . Frankly , I dont give a sh1t what you and others think what I say is a friken fact....

This is where you go wrong. There are no "Africans" in Guyana if you mean a link to continental Africa. What ever culture of cooperation existed among Africans in Africa was destroyed by slavery and colonialism. To say that AfroGuyanese and other TransAtlantic blacks have a tradition in cooperation because their ancestors in Africa did is irrelevant. Maybe they did in 1650 but many years have passed and the authorities (INCLUDING BURNHAM) made sure that any culture of cooperation between TransAtlantic blacks was destroyed.

To Say Burnham ensure any vestiages of cultural links by and between afro Guyanese and africa was destroyed by Burnham is laughbable. Look , I can understand your anger with Burnham for not empowering afro Guyanese more but to blame him for severing any remnants of cultural vestigaes is truely laughable .Look , fact of the matter is afro Guyanese had access to african root cutlure and traditions but they elected to be anglo in very sense of the meaning so dont go blaming slavery and Burnham. How come you aint got an african name ? at least Sidney King had the guts and balz to change his name to an africanized one . BUt hear this , you are not alone cause plenty Indians now giving their kinds anglo names . They too are in the process of losing their indentity and soon their culture and traditions . Look , I give all my kids indian names and I would be damned iof they give their kids anglo names . Imagine a coolie man walking up to you and saying my name is Alexander or Sean or something like that ? My wife is a indian roman catholic and she was given an anglo name . Since she married me she wanted to change her name to an indian name but has not because of her religion . I am not angry with her as she has to deal with her own indentity . My kids all got married hindu style while my wife made sure they did a christain or muslim ceremony so as not to disrespect .

Slavery and colonialism taught blacks not to trust each other and to find individual ways to survive. This is the base of the culture. This is what the people know and to introduce a concept which is alien to them is a nonstarter.

People are not taught to distrust their own kind , it is something they experience and learn from it .

I also wonder why when ever the topic of blacks come up you always get to black leadership.

Why do you think ? because black leadership has failed the blackman . In guyana in the USA in africa . did you not read the threads about indian business leaders who led indian consumers into bankruptcy and loss of homes ? we have the address what is true and not delude ourselves . but then again , you seem to prefer delusion.

Well what leadership to Indians in RH have? Ed Ahmad? Should they be blamed for this? No. Like every body else, including blacks, they will do their best with what ever tools they have at their disposal and if any one tries to block their progress using race this should be dealt with, whether it was the PNC or whether it is some white employer in NYC.

Indo carribeans have been f ed by their leaders too but thank god for their cutural heritage and traditions they are able to rise to the surface from exploitation and abuse . These indians who called themselves leaders will be jailed and punished and the Indian community will hopefully learn that honesty and ethics are the passports of success .

And where do you get off on the notion that blacks are some sheep led by called "leaders". Another trait we learnt in slavery is we dont trust our leaders. Even MLK had to struggle mightily to win the support of his people. There were many who didnt want to cooperate with him.

Isnt that the same dilemna indo guyanese are facing today with the PPP ?

If some one uses race as a criteria to determine who they hire, who they purchase goods and services from or who they offer contracts to THEY ARE RACISTS!!!!

No it is not racist because racism has mny connotations used when applicable . Does a roman catholic discriminate when non christians are denied holy communion ? You go overboard on the term racism a term which has been misused and abused for decades . Get over the term !

You have a jamaican electrician because he is good and honest. Yet you endorse racists in Guyana who would not give him an opportunity becaus ehe is of another ethnic group. You then suggest that he should not protest against this. The facts are it is not only those who are discriminated against who suffer, but its those who accept low qualityy work, or high cost services instead of utlizing those who desreve patronage, or employment.



Yes I agree that small IndoGuyaneee business cant offer competitive wages and benefits. This is why most IndoGuyanese who can do better find work elsewhere. Now suppose the white man told them go find work from your own people and leave us to hire only whites? You would be the loudest to scream RACE!! Because even though you own your own business if you depend mainly on IndoGuyanese for patronage your success is tied to their incomes and if their incomes are tied to impoverished businesses than that means they have less to spend on you. And if you DONT depend on IndoGuyanese then if others told you to get lost because you are not of their group, regardless as to how deserving you may be then you lose.

I hire and employ people who can get the job done , are honest and subscribe to good high ethics regardless of race and religion . Suppose your nose was a doorpost you are so full of supposes you f yourself before penetration. Bottom line dude people have to become motivated , invest in their own skills and capabilities etc. Look , over the 30 years I been in real estate I hired and fired more people than you can count . If I feel they lack the skills I tell them they need to seek another course before they sink themselves so , am I being racist when I fired an indian , russian , jew , muslim , american anglo , asian etc ????? I do not depend on the indoa GUyanese not indoa caribbean market to exist and or survive . In fact I do not depend on any niche ethnic market.

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:
To Say Burnham ensure any vestiages of cultural links by and between afro Guyanese and africa was destroyed by Burnham is laughbable. Look , I can understand your anger with Burnham for not empowering afro Guyanese more but to blame him for severing any remnants of cultural vestigaes is truely laughable .Look , fact of the matter is afro Guyanese had access to african root cutlure and traditions but they elected to be anglo in very sense of the meaning so dont go blaming slavery and Burnham. How come you aint got an african name ? at least Sidney King had the guts and balz to change his name to an africanized one . BUt hear this , you are not alone cause plenty Indians now giving their kinds anglo names . They too are in the process of losing their indentity and soon their culture and traditions . Look , I give all my kids indian names and I would be damned iof they give their kids anglo names . Imagine a coolie man walking up to you and saying my name is Alexander or Sean or something like that ? My wife is a indian roman catholic and she was given an anglo name . Since she married me she wanted to change her name to an indian name but has not because of her religion . I am not angry with her as she has to deal with her own indentity . My kids all got married hindu style while my wife made sure they did a christain or muslim ceremony so as not to disrespect .

People are not taught to distrust their own kind , it is something they experience and learn from it .



Why do you think ? because black leadership has failed the blackman . In guyana in the USA in africa . did you not read the threads about indian business leaders who led indian consumers into bankruptcy and loss of homes ? we have the address what is true and not delude ourselves . but then again , you seem to prefer delusion.


Indo carribeans have been f ed by their leaders too but thank god for their cutural heritage and traditions they are able to rise to the surface from exploitation and abuse . These indians who called themselves leaders will be jailed and punished and the Indian community will hopefully learn that honesty and ethics are the passports of success .



Isnt that the same dilemna indo guyanese are facing today with the PPP ?



No it is not racist because racism has mny connotations used when applicable . Does a roman catholic discriminate when non christians are denied holy communion ? You go overboard on the term racism a term which has been misused and abused for decades . Get over the term !



]

I hire and employ people who can get the job done , are honest and subscribe to good high ethics regardless of race and religion . Suppose your nose was a doorpost you are so full of supposes you f yourself before penetration. Bottom line dude people have to become motivated , invest in their own skills and capabilities etc. Look , over the 30 years I been in real estate I hired and fired more people than you can count . If I feel they lack the skills I tell them they need to seek another course before they sink themselves so , am I being racist when I fired an indian , russian , jew , muslim , american anglo , asian etc ????? I do not depend on the indoa GUyanese not indoa caribbean market to exist and or survive . In fact I do not depend on any niche ethnic market.

1. Burnham employed the same methods of handling AfroGuyanese as the slave masters did. If they were wrong then so was he. In fact he deliberately tried to down play any attempts at empowerment by AfroGuyanese prior to 1952 because he wanted to annoint himself as our Lord and Savior. He peddled the notion that we were docile until he arrived and so should show him gratitude. The notion that AfroGuyanese attempted to improve their lives before him, and would continue to do so DESPITE him, was not what he wanted us to believe. He wanted a dependent group of people who thought that they couldnt survive without him and he probably succeeded with many. Until he ran out of cash in the late 70s. And so the gravy train ended and people had to depend on themselves or starve. This is why the AfroGuyanese is relatively better off than his Trini counterpart.

Fatboy was an example of bad black leadership. Just like Mugabe who I consider to be of the same mold. Sorry I cant find anything positive to say about him.

2. Where did Guyanese have access to African culture? Please dont offer "make up" culture as peddled by Eusi and now by Eric. Africans will laugh at you. In fact any attempt by TransAtlantic blacks to engage in being pretend Africans is met with derision....not the least because in Africa they look at the Caribbean and at US based blacks and consider us to be better off than they are. They have enough problems of their own. Dressing in attire that is not your own, and looking silly while trying to adapt customs which you dont understand strikes Africans as being quite odd. The slave ship sailed and its not taking any one back.

3. There was a systematic attempt under colonialism for slaves to be divided and to not trust each other. Much has been written about this so I will not engage in senseless debate on what is obvious to all expert on that topic. Needless to say that there is NO way that a handful of white men would have survived for long in places like Guyana if there was unity. Look at what happened in the 1763 Berbice Revolt. Even as most of those slaves were born in Africa (so had their traditions intact) at the time this was a problem. The seeds of division were already being sown. Imagine generations later as Creoles who knew nothing other than slavery.

Again Burnham capitalized on this. Funny thing is so does Jagdeo.

4. If some one meets the qualifications and has teh aptitude (demonstrating this by under going confirmation) then if the Catholic priest says sorry "I am Irish and you arent so no communion for you" he is being racist. We arent talking about hiring unqualified people. If 10 blacks show up and none are qualified than none are hired and there is no racism there. And this fact is not a concern of the prospective employer either.

5. Your attitude towards those who you hire and thsoe who you do business with is what I expect. No favors for any one. Perform or get out. Being Indian doesnt give the person any advanatge if they dont perform. If you actually do this then this is what I expect. This is not what happens in Guyana though.

6. Despite having bad leadership mnay blacks persevere and succeed. Which is why I wonder why you always bring up the leadership issue. Being in a community with bad leadership doesnt give people a right to discriminate against these people. Whether its whites doing that to Indians in the USA, or Indians in 2011 doing that to blacks in Guyana. As you said the Indo community cannot hire the population so almost all must seek employment in companies owned by others. Should they tolerate racism because of this?

7. Eusi Kwayana is a constructed name. Its not a real name. Africans have many ethnicities, each having their own practises and traditions. So an AfroGuyanese might have ancestry from one or more of the Akan groups, plus, Ibo (or Yoruba) plus some Congo. Of course very few of us know anything but some vague notion that most (not all) of our ancestors came from Africa as slaves.

Which tradition should they adapt? As an African said when he saw AfroGuyanese trying to be "African" one Emancipation day, he said if they wanted to "play" African they ought to get it right. Mixing the traditions of one group with those of another is inaccurate and might even have been dangerous given enemities which existed between some groups.

It is too late for TransAtlantic blacks to play African. We only display our ignorance and in any case too much time has past. I can find any Afrocentric African American dressed in full regalia and with some "make up" name based on Swahili (which by the way is Afro Arabic, not African, but he doesnt know this). He will look MORE like an African American the more he tries to pretend he is not.

8. OK so if every black, hispanic or whatever were told to only do business with their own, even if you were better, where does that leave you. Confined to just a niche market. Clearly you made achoice not to depend on an ethnic nice for reasons best known to you....but I am sure based on pursuing profitable opportunities where ever they were and refusing to cede such becasue of race.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

1. Burnham employed the same methods of handling AfroGuyanese as the slave masters did. If they were wrong then so was he. In fact he deliberately tried to down play any attempts at empowerment by AfroGuyanese prior to 1952 because he wanted to annoint himself as our Lord and Savior. He peddled the notion that we were docile until he arrived and so should show him gratitude. The notion that AfroGuyanese attempted to improve their lives before him, and would continue to do so DESPITE him, was not what he wanted us to believe. He wanted a dependent group of people who thought that they couldnt survive without him and he probably succeeded with many. Until he ran out of cash in the late 70s. And so the gravy train ended and people had to depend on themselves or starve. This is why the AfroGuyanese is relatively better off than his Trini counterpart.



Fatboy was an example of bad black leadership. Just like Mugabe who I consider to be of the same mold. Sorry I cant find anything positive to say about him.

Burnham looked and learnt from Jagan who attacked , rediculed , labelled and maligned the indian moderate leaders . Burnham went after the LCP like a pitbull and brought mulattoes and professional blacks to cringe . People like Martin carter , John Carter , Dolphin etc were made to cringe. Burnham gave the black masses the same cool aid Jagan gave the ignorant coolies who thought power by the people was realy for the people and they all got f*#cked by Jagan and Burnham .

2. Where did Guyanese have access to African culture? Please dont offer "make up" culture as peddled by Eusi and now by Eric. Africans will laugh at you. In fact any attempt by TransAtlantic blacks to engage in being pretend Africans is met with derision....not the least because in Africa they look at the Caribbean and at US based blacks and consider us to be better off than they are. They have enough problems of their own. Dressing in attire that is not your own, and looking silly while trying to adapt customs which you dont understand strikes Africans as being quite odd. The slave ship sailed and its not taking any one back.

east Indians gave up their language but held onto their culture , traditions and religion in ways far different from India . Afro Guyanese in the county of Berbice held onto the what remnants of their cutlure and traditions they had but people like A.J Seymour , Dolphin and other mulattoes made sure it did not spread because they were jockeying for power and wanted to be the voice for all blacks . It was Fatboy , yes Fatboy , who attempted to re-kindle and resurrect the last remnants of afro Guyanese culture . Dude , you gotta give due where it is due ! cuss fatboy all yuh want he was the only black man and leader to try to foster afro guyaanese culture no matter how adulterated it was .

3. There was a systematic attempt under colonialism for slaves to be divided and to not trust each other. Much has been written about this so I will not engage in senseless debate on what is obvious to all expert on that topic. Needless to say that there is NO way that a handful of white men would have survived for long in places like Guyana if there was unity. Look at what happened in the 1763 Berbice Revolt. Even as most of those slaves were born in Africa (so had their traditions intact) at the time this was a problem. The seeds of division were already being sown. Imagine generations later as Creoles who knew nothing other than slavery.

The brits did the same with indian indentures , they split them up and their families . Brothers were placed on different ships and told they were goignto the same place but were sent to different colonies . Yes the conquerer always has his way.

Again Burnham capitalized on this. Funny thing is so does Jagdeo.

4. If some one meets the qualifications and has teh aptitude (demonstrating this by under going confirmation) then if the Catholic priest says sorry "I am Irish and you arent so no communion for you" he is being racist. We arent talking about hiring unqualified people. If 10 blacks show up and none are qualified than none are hired and there is no racism there. And this fact is not a concern of the prospective employer either.

If 10 people show up for a job and 10 are blacks and none qualify for the job it simply indicates the situation is chowtic !

5. Your attitude towards those who you hire and thsoe who you do business with is what I expect. No favors for any one. Perform or get out. Being Indian doesnt give the person any advanatge if they dont perform. If you actually do this then this is what I expect. This is not what happens in Guyana though.

Well this is how I conduct myself and this is what I support . favoritism , nepotism and curry favoring are not progressive ! It should and must be stamped out in Guyana where it thrives !

6. Despite having bad leadership mnay blacks persevere and succeed. Which is why I wonder why you always bring up the leadership issue. Being in a community with bad leadership doesnt give people a right to discriminate against these people. Whether its whites doing that to Indians in the USA, or Indians in 2011 doing that to blacks in Guyana. As you said the Indo community cannot hire the population so almost all must seek employment in companies owned by others. Should they tolerate racism because of this?

what people see , witness and experience is what creates their perceptions and beliefs . Everytime there were riots in Guyana and looting many black employees joined in the looting hence creating a nagative perception for blacks who are not like that just as guys like stereo type indians based on the behavior of the PPP .

7. Eusi Kwayana is a constructed name. Its not a real name. Africans have many ethnicities, each having their own practises and traditions. So an AfroGuyanese might have ancestry from one or more of the Akan groups, plus, Ibo (or Yoruba) plus some Congo. Of course very few of us know anything but some vague notion that most (not all) of our ancestors came from Africa as slaves.

Which tradition should they adapt? As an African said when he saw AfroGuyanese trying to be "African" one Emancipation day, he said if they wanted to "play" African they ought to get it right. Mixing the traditions of one group with those of another is inaccurate and might even have been dangerous given enemities which existed between some groups.

It is too late for TransAtlantic blacks to play African. We only display our ignorance and in any case too much time has past. I can find any Afrocentric African American dressed in full regalia and with some "make up" name based on Swahili (which by the way is Afro Arabic, not African, but he doesnt know this). He will look MORE like an African American the more he tries to pretend he is not.

8. OK so if every black, hispanic or whatever were told to only do business with their own, even if you were better, where does that leave you. Confined to just a niche market. Clearly you made achoice not to depend on an ethnic nice for reasons best known to you....but I am sure based on pursuing profitable opportunities where ever they were and refusing to cede such becasue of race.[/QUOTE]

Bai my business does not depend on race and gender it is based on financial ability . I am saying if people who believe themselves to be oppressed , marginalized and ostracized dont COOPERATE they will never rise up to become a bonafide contender . BTW , I do not deal in niche markets I deal in dollar value markets . However , if I can pillage a neiche market because businesses ignore it and I can meet their demands I will .

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

Burnham looked and learnt from Jagan who attacked , rediculed , labelled and maligned the indian moderate leaders . Burnham went after the LCP like a pitbull and brought mulattoes and professional blacks to cringe . People like Martin carter , John Carter , Dolphin etc were made to cringe. Burnham gave the black masses the same cool aid Jagan gave the ignorant coolies who thought power by the people was realy for the people and they all got f*#cked by Jagan and Burnham .

east Indians gave up their language but held onto their culture , traditions and religion in ways far different from India . Afro Guyanese in the county of Berbice held onto the what remnants of their cutlure and traditions they had but people like A.J Seymour , Dolphin and other mulattoes made sure it did not spread because they were jockeying for power and wanted to be the voice for all blacks . It was Fatboy , yes Fatboy , who attempted to re-kindle and resurrect the last remnants of afro Guyanese culture . Dude , you gotta give due where it is due ! cuss fatboy all yuh want he was the only black man and leader to try to foster afro guyaanese culture no matter how adulterated it was .

The brits did the same with indian indentures , they split them up and their families . Brothers were placed on different ships and told they were goignto the same place but were sent to different colonies . Yes the conquerer always has his way.

If 10 people show up for a job and 10 are blacks and none qualify for the job it simply indicates the situation is chowtic !

Well this is how I conduct myself and this is what I support . favoritism , nepotism and curry favoring are not progressive ! It should and must be stamped out in Guyana where it thrives !

6 what people see , witness and experience is what creates their perceptions and beliefs . Everytime there were riots in Guyana and looting many black employees joined in the looting hence creating a nagative perception for blacks who are not like that just as guys like stereo type indians based on the behavior of the PPP .

Bai my business does not depend on race and gender it is based on financial ability . I am saying if people who believe themselves to be oppressed , marginalized and ostracized dont COOPERATE they will never rise up to become a bonafide contender . BTW , I do not deal in niche markets I deal in dollar value markets . However , if I can pillage a neiche market because businesses ignore it and I can meet their demands I will .

1. Agreed that Jagan and Burnham were a disaster and Jagdeo took notes from both. In addition he is a theif. Neither Burnham nor Jagan died rich and their kids have to work just like every one else. Jagdeo will die a billionaire. Even though he was even POORER than either when he began politics.

2. Burnham's emphasis was teaching Guyanese Trini culture. There was much emphasis on steel pan and kaiso. Virtually nothing on mobilizing true Guyanese culture. Which is why, despite having a rich indigenous culture too often Guyanese show case American/Trinidadian/Jamaican culture or that of classical North India rather than that which represents our folk, both Afro and IndoGUYANESE. How many Guyanese (including urban Indos) know that Guyana has a rich reportoire of IndoGuyanese folks songs? How many middle class Indos cringe when they hear them preferring instead some bad mimicry of kathak dancing or Bollywood instead.

Actually Billy Pilgrim did much with masquerade, the only indigenous Guyanese culture that was promoted under Burnham. Afro Burnham was no more interested in AfroGuyanese folk culture than were the black Dolphins or the mulatto Pilgrims. It should interest you that kwekwe is way more common now than it was in the 70s and many a Gtwn person will tell you that its only recently that they have even seen it.

3. The Indos and Afros were treated very differently by the Brits as part of their divide and rule. When you tell me that Hindu temples were burnt down, people arrested for beating tassa drums, and the children of indentures sold off never to be seen again, and the "wives" of slaves taken to cater to the needs of massa on pain of being sold then we can equate the two. When slave mothers were reduced to being baby making afctories and male slaves to being studs...ensuring that no bond developed between them, or with the kids who tehy sired.

Indentureship was horrendous and demeaning, but nothing like slavery. There is a reason why "child mother", and female headed households are integral to the culture of the TransAtlantic black, and it doesnt matter where you go, Brazil, Guyana, Martinique, Jamaica, Cuba or the USA. This is the "culture" which emerged in slavery, African family systems destroyed and long forgotten.

4. Did you ever think that if AfroGuyanese had a stake in the society and felt taht they had equal opportunities that they would join riots? When last were there riots any way. I know when I was in Guyana in 1999 when there was "slo fyah, mo fyah" the Afro vendors covered up their stalls and ran away just like teh Indo merchants. Criminal blacks will steal from where ever they can. A vendor being more vulnerable as they cant pull down the shutters and sic armed guards on the crowds.

5. Tell whites in the USA and Indo elites in Guyana your belief that blacks should unite and favor their own and boycott others. Tell them to encourage this and not attempt to stigmatize these efforts or intimidate those who plan them. In fact as you are/or used to be a Republican tell the Tea Party nuts that they shoudl advocate this. They certainly damned Malcolm X who said exactly that. paid some folks to kill him too!!! Same for Waddell in Guyana.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana.

.

Key point - stats for Guyanese / foreign blacks are way different than " domestic US blacks" . Blacks that emigrated to the us are statistically more successful .

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by kidmost:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

Burnham looked and learnt from Jagan who attacked , rediculed , labelled and maligned the indian moderate leaders . Burnham went after the LCP like a pitbull and brought mulattoes and professional blacks to cringe . People like Martin carter , John Carter , Dolphin etc were made to cringe. Burnham gave the black masses the same cool aid Jagan gave the ignorant coolies who thought power by the people was realy for the people and they all got f*#cked by Jagan and Burnham .

east Indians gave up their language but held onto their culture , traditions and religion in ways far different from India . Afro Guyanese in the county of Berbice held onto the what remnants of their cutlure and traditions they had but people like A.J Seymour , Dolphin and other mulattoes made sure it did not spread because they were jockeying for power and wanted to be the voice for all blacks . It was Fatboy , yes Fatboy , who attempted to re-kindle and resurrect the last remnants of afro Guyanese culture . Dude , you gotta give due where it is due ! cuss fatboy all yuh want he was the only black man and leader to try to foster afro guyaanese culture no matter how adulterated it was .

The brits did the same with indian indentures , they split them up and their families . Brothers were placed on different ships and told they were goignto the same place but were sent to different colonies . Yes the conquerer always has his way.

If 10 people show up for a job and 10 are blacks and none qualify for the job it simply indicates the situation is chowtic !

Well this is how I conduct myself and this is what I support . favoritism , nepotism and curry favoring are not progressive ! It should and must be stamped out in Guyana where it thrives !

6 what people see , witness and experience is what creates their perceptions and beliefs . Everytime there were riots in Guyana and looting many black employees joined in the looting hence creating a nagative perception for blacks who are not like that just as guys like stereo type indians based on the behavior of the PPP .

Bai my business does not depend on race and gender it is based on financial ability . I am saying if people who believe themselves to be oppressed , marginalized and ostracized dont COOPERATE they will never rise up to become a bonafide contender . BTW , I do not deal in niche markets I deal in dollar value markets . However , if I can pillage a neiche market because businesses ignore it and I can meet their demands I will .

1. Agreed that Jagan and Burnham were a disaster and Jagdeo took notes from both. In addition he is a theif. Neither Burnham nor Jagan died rich and their kids have to work just like every one else. Jagdeo will die a billionaire. Even though he was even POORER than either when he began politics.

2. Burnham's emphasis was teaching Guyanese Trini culture. There was much emphasis on steel pan and kaiso. Virtually nothing on mobilizing true Guyanese culture. Which is why, despite having a rich indigenous culture too often Guyanese show case American/Trinidadian/Jamaican culture or that of classical North India rather than that which represents our folk, both Afro and IndoGUYANESE. How many Guyanese (including urban Indos) know that Guyana has a rich reportoire of IndoGuyanese folks songs? How many middle class Indos cringe when they hear them preferring instead some bad mimicry of kathak dancing or Bollywood instead.

Actually Billy Pilgrim did much with masquerade, the only indigenous Guyanese culture that was promoted under Burnham. Afro Burnham was no more interested in AfroGuyanese folk culture than were the black Dolphins or the mulatto Pilgrims. It should interest you that kwekwe is way more common now than it was in the 70s and many a Gtwn person will tell you that its only recently that they have even seen it.

3. The Indos and Afros were treated very differently by the Brits as part of their divide and rule. When you tell me that Hindu temples were burnt down, people arrested for beating tassa drums, and the children of indentures sold off never to be seen again, and the "wives" of slaves taken to cater to the needs of massa on pain of being sold then we can equate the two. When slave mothers were reduced to being baby making afctories and male slaves to being studs...ensuring that no bond developed between them, or with the kids who tehy sired.

Indentureship was horrendous and demeaning, but nothing like slavery. There is a reason why "child mother", and female headed households are integral to the culture of the TransAtlantic black, and it doesnt matter where you go, Brazil, Guyana, Martinique, Jamaica, Cuba or the USA. This is the "culture" which emerged in slavery, African family systems destroyed and long forgotten.

4. Did you ever think that if AfroGuyanese had a stake in the society and felt taht they had equal opportunities that they would join riots? When last were there riots any way. I know when I was in Guyana in 1999 when there was "slo fyah, mo fyah" the Afro vendors covered up their stalls and ran away just like teh Indo merchants. Criminal blacks will steal from where ever they can. A vendor being more vulnerable as they cant pull down the shutters and sic armed guards on the crowds.

5. Tell whites in the USA and Indo elites in Guyana your belief that blacks should unite and favor their own and boycott others. Tell them to encourage this and not attempt to stigmatize these efforts or intimidate those who plan them. In fact as you are/or used to be a Republican tell the Tea Party nuts that they shoudl advocate this. They certainly damned Malcolm X who said exactly that. paid some folks to kill him too!!! Same for Waddell in Guyana.

Caribj, the 1970s produced some great Guyanese singers. It was during the early 1970s' I heard of the great Mighty Enchanter and later Sammy Baksh, Sach Persaud, Eddie Hooper, the mighty Chief and Nisha Benjamin.


I am putting a link here for Sammy Baksh's music so that the young people can know what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLgMaW-HM4


The Guyanese people today need to know more about singers like Bill Rogers and his music of the 1930s Guyanese society.


I am putting a link here for Bill Rogers so that the young people can know what I am talking about.


http://guyaneseonline.wordpres...calypso-bill-rogers/

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:

Caribj, the 1970s produced some great Guyanese singers. It was during the early 1970s' I heard of the great Mighty Enchanter and later Sammy Baksh, Sach Persaud, Eddie Hooper, the mighty Chief and Nisha Benjamin.


I am putting a link here for Sammy Baksh's music so that the young people can know what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLgMaW-HM4


The Guyanese people today need to know more about singers like Bill Rogers and his music of the 1930s Guyanese society.


I am putting a link here for Bill Rogers so that the young people can know what I am talking about.


http://guyaneseonline.wordpres...calypso-bill-rogers/

Nice there Wally, lots of memories.

Absolutely Baseman. Those were the days. I remember seeing the Mighty Enchanter singing "Dolarie" at a party. It was an amazing performance. It is sad when some Guyanese kids today don't know who these singers are.

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:
Absolutely Baseman. Those were the days. I remember seeing the Mighty Enchanter singing "Dolarie" at a party. It was an amazing performance. It is sad when some Guyanese kids today don't know who these singers are.

I knew Sash Persaud and Sammy Baksh very well.

Those Guys were my heroes. I worked with a Brazilian girl from Baltimore and she saw Sash Persaud perform in a concert at a hotel in Brazil when she was a teenager sometime in the early 1980s'. She told me that she had a huge crush on him because he was so handsome and such a good singer.

In the 80's he said Brazil was being very good to him.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj: [/color]

1. Agreed that Jagan and Burnham were a disaster and Jagdeo took notes from both. In addition he is a theif. Neither Burnham nor Jagan died rich and their kids have to work just like every one else. Jagdeo will die a billionaire. Even though he was even POORER than either when he began politics.

Ha ! Yuh mek meh laff . LFSB & CBJ did not die rich? Which planet are you living on ?

2. Burnham's emphasis was teaching Guyanese Trini culture. There was much emphasis on steel pan and kaiso. Virtually nothing on mobilizing true Guyanese culture. Which is why, despite having a rich indigenous culture too often Guyanese show case American/Trinidadian/Jamaican culture or that of classical North India rather than that which represents our folk, both Afro and IndoGUYANESE. How many Guyanese (including urban Indos) know that Guyana has a rich reportoire of IndoGuyanese folks songs? How many middle class Indos cringe when they hear them preferring instead some bad mimicry of kathak dancing or Bollywood instead.

Actually Billy Pilgrim did much with masquerade, the only indigenous Guyanese culture that was promoted under Burnham. Afro Burnham was no more interested in AfroGuyanese folk culture than were the black Dolphins or the mulatto Pilgrims. It should interest you that kwekwe is way more common now than it was in the 70s and many a Gtwn person will tell you that its only recently that they have even seen it.

Bai Burnham tried what he could to get afro Guyanese whether through steel pan and kaiso or through the cooperatives but people have differing views on this. Nevertheless Guyana had as many stell pan yards back in the 1940's as Trinidad. The PPP kind of lead Indo Guyanese from their bhojpuri culture and traditions and classical indian dancing may not have been grassroot culture but it simply evolved into refined artforms just as in other cultures . I remember the Pilgrims , Dolphins etc did what they had to do to survive Burnham regime so they played the roles . I recall they had issues dealing with guyanese creole artforms just as middleclass indians seperated themselves from their grass root indian culture . Dude , it is a shame guyanese are only now discovering kwekwe when Kwekwe was common in Mahaicony and Canje where old afro Guyanese families maintained the tradition. It is much like east indian Matikor where the bride and groom are dyed and music , dancing and singing of wutless songs expressing sexual prowess , gifts and of course marital advice from seniors . KweKwe was done the night before the wedding and there was nuff music dance singing and planty food and alcohol .

3. The Indos and Afros were treated very differently by the Brits as part of their divide and rule. When you tell me that Hindu temples were burnt down, people arrested for beating tassa drums, and the children of indentures sold off never to be seen again, and the "wives" of slaves taken to cater to the needs of massa on pain of being sold then we can equate the two. When slave mothers were reduced to being baby making afctories and male slaves to being studs...ensuring that no bond developed between them, or with the kids who tehy sired.


Indentureship was horrendous and demeaning, but nothing like slavery. There is a reason why "child mother", and female headed households are integral to the culture of the TransAtlantic black, and it doesnt matter where you go, Brazil, Guyana, Martinique, Jamaica, Cuba or the USA. This is the "culture" which emerged in slavery, African family systems destroyed and long forgotten.

True east indians and others did not experience the degredation and denegradtion as blacks but what I argue is that black leadership like indian leadership in GUyana are void of culture this is why indo Guyanese have become Bollywoodized , Trinized and reggaeized .

4. Did you ever think that if AfroGuyanese had a stake in the society and felt taht they had equal opportunities that they would join riots? When last were there riots any way. I know when I was in Guyana in 1999 when there was "slo fyah, mo fyah" the Afro vendors covered up their stalls and ran away just like teh Indo merchants. Criminal blacks will steal from where ever they can. A vendor being more vulnerable as they cant pull down the shutters and sic armed guards on the crowds.

5. Tell whites in the USA and Indo elites in Guyana your belief that blacks should unite and favor their own and boycott others. Tell them to encourage this and not attempt to stigmatize these efforts or intimidate those who plan them. In fact as you are/or used to be a Republican tell the Tea Party nuts that they shoudl advocate this. They certainly damned Malcolm X who said exactly that. paid some folks to kill him too!!! Same for Waddell in Guyana.[/QUOTE]

I always do ! I always preach that communities at all levels must support their own community commerce ..it is logical , it is wise and it is progressive regardless of the views of others .

quote:

Originally posted by Guyanese4eva:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:
Caribj seems to believe that the US is a paradise for blacks.

Guyanese blacks flee to the USA. US blacks do not even visit Guyana. Clearly the USA is better for blacks than Guyana.

.

Key point - stats for Guyanese / foreign blacks are way different than " domestic US blacks" . Blacks that emigrated to the us are statistically more successful .

And statiscally more successful US blacks dont visit Guyana much less desire to live there. If you dont know successful black Americans you need to get out more loads of them exist and as the shootings at the Labor carnival indicate we have our share of low lives.

Dont get caught up in this foreign vs US black nonsense. There is a lot of evidence that many US born Caribbean descent kids (black and Indian) are underperforming.

Kidmost I seee you admiore Forbes Burnham. I dont. FACT AfroGuyanese in 1955 were BETTER off than they were 30 years later. They had an independent economy that could have been built on if Burnham wanted it. Instead he destroyed it and forced cooperatives packed with his incompetent and corrupt soup lickers. People were right to reject those frauds. By the time he died the farming economy in black villages had been destroyed and black tradesmen had lost many of their skills as these werent passed down to the next generation. Patronage jobs was what Burnham offered.