According to the PNC apologist and spin man, Carib:

Racist Harmon, Granger and Williams are Gods.

seignet posted:

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To be specific, the Luckhoos wanted to bring in more indentures into the colony. I do not believe it was their intentions to marginalized the Amerindians, the Negroes or the Coloreds..

 

 

 

 

 

The rationale for bringing in more indentures wasn't a function of BG having a labor shortage.   With ample supplies of Indian indentures, and blacks from Guyana and Barbados, clearly the motivation was to ensure that the Indian population was the majority.  It wasn't that additional labor was needed.  This wasn't 1848 when one could have argued that labor was in short supply.

Even in 2017 many legitimately wonder what % of Indo Guyanese have an identity that embraces a notion of a multi cultural Guyana, where they have strong bonds with other groups, and where being "Guyanese" should dominate over one's ethnic identity.  Whether they have a  mindset that embraces inclusiveness and empathy for Guyanese without regard to race.

I can well imagine in 1915, when most of the Indians were born in India and had scant interest or ability to interact with others, there would have been widespread panic among both the colored and the blacks that they risked replacing a white massa for an Indian one. This if Indians outnumbered and politically dominated Guyana.  And in fact we did see this under PPP rule.  

yuji22 posted:

According to the PNC apologist and spin man, Carib:

Racist Harmon, Granger and Williams are Gods.

 

I see that the Indo KKK continues to invent lies to disguise their own racism. Calling Mars "Afrocentric" when it isn't even clear whether he identifies as being black, and calling me a PNC apologist when scarcely a positive note about that party emanates from me. And even as it was acknowledged that I admit that the PNC was racist towards Indians, and I am adamant that they destroyed Afro Guyanese.

yuji22 posted:

 

This now leads to my question, should Guyana not have a Truth Commission like they did in South Africa to heal old wounds that are like a massive sore for Afros and Indos ?

Please chime in and please let us keep this discussion civil.

 

You don't want a Truth Commission. You want blacks and the PNC to be punished.

Just let there be any discussion of PPP racist tactics to be revealed and you will squeal "black man a kill ahbe" and wail that blacks did better under the PPP than did Indians.

We cannot have a Truth Commission because we don't even agree as to what the "truth" is.  It was easier in South Africa as it was clear which entities were to blame.  The only issue is whether a lowly white policeman should be punished when he was merely following orders.

VVP posted:

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I think you are saying that ethic tension is driven by races-based politics, which I agree with.

 

I used the term institutional instead of political as racial insecurities extend into the private sector as well. In the opinion of blacks Indians will show bias against them in favor of Indians wherever they have clout, even if merely as a manager in a company which isn't Indian owned.

If Guyanese insist in confining the problem as political it will never be resolved. Politicians go where the votes are, and if the vote is one based on racial insecurity then the political system will respond to this.

When a black person can work for Muneshwers Ltd and can expect to be treated based on his/her merits and not see less competent Indians be promoted ahead of them then we will see some progress.  At that point he/she will stop recoiling in terror at the notion of an Indian president. 

caribny posted:

 

When a black person can work for Muneshwers Ltd and can expect to be treated based on his/her merits and not see less competent Indians be promoted ahead of them then we will see some progress.  At that point he/she will stop recoiling in terror at the notion of an Indian president. 

You cannot force a private company to hire anyone.  The private sector should be looking for the best person but whoever they select is up to them.

What they need to start with is the public sector and ensure that the most suitable person get the position regardless of race.  This is not the case in Guyana and it is a major problem.

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

.

To be specific, the Luckhoos wanted to bring in more indentures into the colony. I do not believe it was their intentions to marginalized the Amerindians, the Negroes or the Coloreds..

 

 

 

 

 

The rationale for bringing in more indentures wasn't a function of BG having a labor shortage.   With ample supplies of Indian indentures, and blacks from Guyana and Barbados, clearly the motivation was to ensure that the Indian population was the majority.  It wasn't that additional labor was needed.  This wasn't 1848 when one could have argued that labor was in short supply.

Even in 2017 many legitimately wonder what % of Indo Guyanese have an identity that embraces a notion of a multi cultural Guyana, where they have strong bonds with other groups, and where being "Guyanese" should dominate over one's ethnic identity.  Whether they have a  mindset that embraces inclusiveness and empathy for Guyanese without regard to race.

I can well imagine in 1915, when most of the Indians were born in India and had scant interest or ability to interact with others, there would have been widespread panic among both the colored and the blacks that they risked replacing a white massa for an Indian one. This if Indians outnumbered and politically dominated Guyana.  And in fact we did see this under PPP rule.  

In the nineteen hundreds India endured alot famines, and always did. Suh, the Luckhoos thought of easing the deprivation of few by bringing them to BG. Today, it is called humanitarian. I doan think Indo domination was on their mind. Besides, back then, the buccra ran everything, who would believe back then they would relinquish control of the colony. The Indians were in servitude, the blacks were the teachers, nurses, and many other uppity jobs, the coloreds were the adminstrators of the colony and the Amerindians were in the bush.

VVP posted:

. 

You cannot force a private company to hire anyone.

So then we will continue to have a race problem. The public sector CANNOT hire every one looking for employment, so if the private sector peddles racism then those who are discriminated against will resent those who are doing the discriminating.

You are NOT serious about wanting a solution to this problem if you do not insist that when the private sector hires people race should NOT be a consideration. 

seignet posted:

 

In the nineteen hundreds India endured alot famines, and always did. Suh, the Luckhoos thought of easing the deprivation of few by bringing them to BG. Today, it is called humanitarian. I doan think Indo domination was on their mind. Besides, back then, the buccra ran everything, who would believe back then they would relinquish control of the colony. The Indians were in servitude, the blacks were the teachers, nurses, and many other uppity jobs, the coloreds were the adminstrators of the colony and the Amerindians were in the bush.

Well it was and at the time the black/colored as well as the Indian elites were jockeying to end white domination of Guyana.  Rather than working with the black/coloreds the Indian elites wanted to turn British Guiana into an Indian colony.

Indenture was also ended around that time because it was NOT a humanitarian system.

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

 

In the nineteen hundreds India endured alot famines, and always did. Suh, the Luckhoos thought of easing the deprivation of few by bringing them to BG. Today, it is called humanitarian. I doan think Indo domination was on their mind. Besides, back then, the buccra ran everything, who would believe back then they would relinquish control of the colony. The Indians were in servitude, the blacks were the teachers, nurses, and many other uppity jobs, the coloreds were the adminstrators of the colony and the Amerindians were in the bush.

Well it was and at the time the black/colored as well as the Indian elites were jockeying to end white domination of Guyana.  Rather than working with the black/coloreds the Indian elites wanted to turn British Guiana into an Indian colony.

Indenture was also ended around that time because it was NOT a humanitarian system.

Jagan was more interested in unity with the Africans than the Portugese.  He was bitterly opposed to pro-Indian leaders during his time.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

 

In the nineteen hundreds India endured alot famines, and always did. Suh, the Luckhoos thought of easing the deprivation of few by bringing them to BG. Today, it is called humanitarian. I doan think Indo domination was on their mind. Besides, back then, the buccra ran everything, who would believe back then they would relinquish control of the colony. The Indians were in servitude, the blacks were the teachers, nurses, and many other uppity jobs, the coloreds were the adminstrators of the colony and the Amerindians were in the bush.

Well it was and at the time the black/colored as well as the Indian elites were jockeying to end white domination of Guyana.  Rather than working with the black/coloreds the Indian elites wanted to turn British Guiana into an Indian colony.

Indenture was also ended around that time because it was NOT a humanitarian system.

Jagan was more interested in unity with the Africans than the Portugese.  He was bitterly opposed to pro-Indian leaders during his time.

This was told to me by one of Jagan's inner circle. A rice farmer from the East Coast Demerara. The Soviet Union offered Jagan weapons. They would refuse some rice shipments and smuggle arms in them. Jagan refused because he didn't want more bloodshed. Some may disagree with that and call him naive but a true leader thinks of his people first. The only similarities between Jagan and Jagdeo are the "Jag" and they are both Indo-Guyanese.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

 

Jagan was more interested in unity with the Africans than the Portugese.  He was bitterly opposed to pro-Indian leaders during his time.

Yes this is evidence of the Burnham/Jagan scam.  They told Guyanese that before their time Guyana had no history and so all you can do is reference them.

Burnham and Jagan stand on the shoulders of people like Critchlow. There was a whole struggle for greater involvement in the running of the colony before either man was even born!

GTAngler posted:

 

This was told to me by one of Jagan's inner circle. A rice farmer from the East Coast Demerara. The Soviet Union offered Jagan weapons. They would refuse some rice shipments and smuggle arms in them. Jagan refused because he didn't want more bloodshed. Some may disagree with that and call him naive but a true leader thinks of his people first. The only similarities between Jagan and Jagdeo are the "Jag" and they are both Indo-Guyanese.

Total nonsense. By the time the 60s rolled around the Indian elites were already embedded in the PPP following the apan jhat votes of 1961 and 1957.

PYO operatives were sent to Cuba for training and weapons were shipped to the PPP from Castro.   This is just as how the PNC/UF received weapons from the CIA.

And to show how ridiculous you look why would the USSR liaise with the potentially reactionary anti communist rice farmer when there were a whole cadre of PYO operatives who they had already trained?  Jagan sent them to Cuba for training in the use of covert violent tactics, bomb making, etc.

Jagan wanted power. In 1964 it was agreed by the British that elections would occur under the new PR rules.

Jagan feared that he would lose this election as it was evident that the PNC and the UF would coalesce afterward.  He wanted to delay the elections and unleashed a reign of violence to achieve that goal. Just as the PNC and the UF did in 1962/3 when they wanted to set up the conditions were an early election under new rules would occur.

Please disabuse yourself of this notion that the PPP were angels. They were every bit as dirty and violent and power obsessed as was the PNC and the UF.  Your elders fooled you, and you aren't sensible enough to understand that in any struggle the truth lies in between what either side says.

caribny posted:

GTAngler posted:

 

This was told to me by one of Jagan's inner circle. A rice farmer from the East Coast Demerara. The Soviet Union offered Jagan weapons. They would refuse some rice shipments and smuggle arms in them. Jagan refused because he didn't want more bloodshed. Some may disagree with that and call him naive but a true leader thinks of his people first. The only similarities between Jagan and Jagdeo are the "Jag" and they are both Indo-Guyanese.

Total nonsense. By the time the 60s rolled around the Indian elites were already embedded in the PPP following the apan jhat votes of 1961 and 1957.

PYO operatives were sent to Cuba for training and weapons were shipped to the PPP from Castro.   This is just as how the PNC/UF received weapons from the CIA.

And to show how ridiculous you look why would the USSR liaise with the potentially reactionary anti communist rice farmer when there were a whole cadre of PYO operatives who they had already trained?  Jagan sent them to Cuba for training in the use of covert violent tactics, bomb making, etc.

Jagan wanted power. In 1964 it was agreed by the British that elections would occur under the new PR rules.

Jagan feared that he would lose this election as it was evident that the PNC and the UF would coalesce afterward.  He wanted to delay the elections and unleashed a reign of violence to achieve that goal. Just as the PNC and the UF did in 1962/3 when they wanted to set up the conditions were an early election under new rules would occur.

Please disabuse yourself of this notion that the PPP were angels. They were every bit as dirty and violent and power obsessed as was the PNC and the UF.  Your elders fooled you, and you aren't sensible enough to understand that in any struggle the truth lies in between what either side says.

When I come at you in response, must cry like a little girl again that I made personal attacks. Show me where I said the PPP were angels. I also specifically said Jagan meaning Cheddi. We had a short lived respite from your idiocy but I can see you're back. As usual you just read what you wanted. This was a story passed on to me by a now deceased old man.

GTAngler posted:

.

When I come at you in response, must cry like a little girl again that I made personal attacks. Show me where I said the PPP were angels. I also specifically said Jagan meaning Cheddi. We had a short lived respite from your idiocy but I can see you're back. As usual you just read what you wanted. This was a story passed on to me by a now deceased old man.

I really didn't care that you called me a pig and a dog, as that reflected more on you. AT what point have I ever used that language to describe you?

You referred to the PPP as angels right above by implying that orders for violence didn't come straight from Cheddi's mouth, or that if he didn't order it he certainly didn't stop it.

Please don't tell me that you really think that Cheddi didn't know that some PYO were sent to Cuba for training in terrorism.

I note that I am an idiot, in your mind because you object to me educating you on the fact that the PPP and Cheddi were no more angelic during the 60s than was Burnham, Hammie Green or Peter D'Aguiar. Rice shipments went to Cuba and returned with guns. FACT. They ALL had blood on their ends and it takes a special kind of idiot to claim otherwise.

Now some dead black man might have told me that Burnham loved PPP Indians. Does this mean that I will believe him?  The fact that some dead relative of yours told you blatantly lies suggest that if you believed what they said without further investigation then indeed you are an idiot.

And GTAngler every time you come to me with some bullshyte that Cheddi was this angel in 1964 I will hammer you.

VVP posted:

caribny posted:

 

When a black person can work for Muneshwers Ltd and can expect to be treated based on his/her merits and not see less competent Indians be promoted ahead of them then we will see some progress.  At that point he/she will stop recoiling in terror at the notion of an Indian president. 

You cannot force a private company to hire anyone.  The private sector should be looking for the best person but whoever they select is up to them.

What they need to start with is the public sector and ensure that the most suitable person get the position regardless of race.  This is not the case in Guyana and it is a major problem.

One may not be able to force a private company to do anything but if the company is receiving government contracts as this one is then they must comply with the state's employment guidelines. I do not have evidence of their hiring practices but if as he says there is not ethnic diversity there then they should not be engaging in government bids etc.

Prashad posted:

Racial conflicts will increase as the East Indian population decrease.

Quite the contrary, racial conflict will decrease as Indians are effectively ethnically cleansed and no longer a threat to Afro domination.  And the day is upon us.  The PNC has been handed this on a silver platter with the Sugar industry which they will gut an force Indians out to seek jobs elsewhere.  The PPP is partially to blame with their lack for foresight and strategy to deal with their constituency as this industry declines!  BJ tried to keep a dying old man breathing, Granger will pull the plug!

GTAngler posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

caribny posted:

seignet posted:

 

In the nineteen hundreds India endured alot famines, and always did. Suh, the Luckhoos thought of easing the deprivation of few by bringing them to BG. Today, it is called humanitarian. I doan think Indo domination was on their mind. Besides, back then, the buccra ran everything, who would believe back then they would relinquish control of the colony. The Indians were in servitude, the blacks were the teachers, nurses, and many other uppity jobs, the coloreds were the adminstrators of the colony and the Amerindians were in the bush.

Well it was and at the time the black/colored as well as the Indian elites were jockeying to end white domination of Guyana.  Rather than working with the black/coloreds the Indian elites wanted to turn British Guiana into an Indian colony.

Indenture was also ended around that time because it was NOT a humanitarian system.

Jagan was more interested in unity with the Africans than the Portugese.  He was bitterly opposed to pro-Indian leaders during his time.

This was told to me by one of Jagan's inner circle. A rice farmer from the East Coast Demerara. The Soviet Union offered Jagan weapons. They would refuse some rice shipments and smuggle arms in them. Jagan refused because he didn't want more bloodshed. Some may disagree with that and call him naive but a true leader thinks of his people first. The only similarities between Jagan and Jagdeo are the "Jag" and they are both Indo-Guyanese.

Jagan was a loud-mouthed whimp, the opinion of my uncles who were close to him.  The only people he was good at cussing were the Americans and Brits!

caribny posted:

VVP posted:

. 

You cannot force a private company to hire anyone.

So then we will continue to have a race problem. The public sector CANNOT hire every one looking for employment, so if the private sector peddles racism then those who are discriminated against will resent those who are doing the discriminating.

You are NOT serious about wanting a solution to this problem if you do not insist that when the private sector hires people race should NOT be a consideration. 

The private sector must hire all races just like we expect the Afro dominated GPF/GDF to serve and protect all races.  I like what my relatives are doing there.  Walk into their businesses, all races working reflecting the make-up of Guyana.  In fact, one of my relatives indicated that Blacks are loyal, much more than Indians!