Imran posted:

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

ksazma posted:

Jesus ministry lasted 3 years from when he was 30 to 33 years old. During that time Paul was not part of Jesus' chosen few. Then after Jesus was no longer around Paul said that Jesus met him on the road to Damascus and even though he was not around anymore he still reminded Paul that Paul persecutes him. Now if while and after Jesus was here Paul was still seen as persecuting him, what part of Paul being a scoundrel is so difficult to understand? Perhaps it is necessary to take Paul's side instead of Jesus' because they are not the same side. Isn't everything cited in my comment here from the Bible?

Is this where your head cannot wrap around what you are reading? Let me help you out here. Here is Act 9 verse 1- 8, pay attention to what's highlighted.

The Damascus Road: Saul Converted

9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

² And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Note: As you, ksazma stated and I quote, "Jesus ministry lasted 3 years from when he was 30 to 33 years old. During that time Paul was not part of Jesus' chosen few. Then after Jesus was no longer around Paul said that Jesus met him on the road to Damascus and even though he was not around anymore he still reminded Paul that Paul persecutes him."

Question: In you statement above could we agree that this took place after Jesus resurrection or as you put after His 33 years of life. Where was Jesus then? If he was not physically round Paul...excuse me Saul, where was that light coming from? Who voice was it Saul heard?  The other part of your statement not worth looking into, I just don't want to overwhelm you.

³ And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

⁴ And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

⁵ And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

⁶ And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

⁷ And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

⁸ And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

ksazma you are failing to understand that if you question me about a verses/scriptures in the Bible, I would do my due diligence to find the answer within the Bible. I don't have to add to what is clearly written there in the Bible.

Therefore when you come up with your nip pick verses from the Bible and try to tarnish it by not READING what you nip picking in it's entirety doesn't warrant my answer in my own works, I point you back to the source of where all answer are.

Now you on the other hand, I am still waiting for you to provide your corroboration in reference to those statement you made......What taking you so long buddy?

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

I see he gone in hiding. 

Thanks for identifying these barefaced propagandist.

"Go Keith Go "

Have a bless day.

I know you enjoy me kicking your ass but I have grown bored of it so gwan suh.

Stop imagine stuff .. Keith is KICKING your ass banna.

 

So far Keith has done a terrible job answering questions. I am not surprised that you think otherwise. Every question I posed is a direct response to a statement in one of his posts and all my citations are directly from the Bible where I even cited the passages. His responses are a disservice to to Bible but you are too poisoned to make that distinction. If Keith wants to redeem himself, he would need to go back to each question and truthfully answer them in his own words.

Carry on dude, have you answer all of Keith questions?

Have a good weekend folks, I'll not be responding until Monday...that give my friend ksazma adequate time to research and find those supportive statement to back his claims up.  

Imran my friend, it's not about who's winning and kicking ass, as God children here on this earth we are to uplift and correct each others in the way which they should walk.

"You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." – Jim Stovall

Lets remember to stay humble, a dignified person accomplishes much, but brags little. They are secure in their standing without needing to make noise, often treating everyone with tremendous respect, regardless of position or faith.

Imran posted:

 

Carry on dude, have you answer all of Keith questions?

I guess you missed where I stated that I don't have any burden here. I pointed to a Biblical passage and give my interpretation of it. Those passages were a direct response to statements in Keith's postings. It is Keith's burden to EXPLAIN why my interpretation is incorrect. Cutting and pasting sermons totally unrelated to it is not a response.

Keith posted:

Have a good weekend folks, I'll not be responding until Monday...that give my friend ksazma adequate time to research and find those supportive statement to back his claims up.  

 

Dude. I already responded to you. Your posts make certain statements which used passages from your Bible to refute. I give my interpretation to those passages. What proof do you need on my interpretation. If I say that Jesus was bigoted and point out that he says that it is not proper to throw the children's pearls to the dogs, what proof are you looking for. You have to say that he did not say that which you refuse to touch. You can't control my interpretation of something just like I can't control your interpretation of something. That is why I don't question your interpretation of anything. All I question is if the passages that I quote are correct or not. Can you point to any quotes I claim are from that Bible that is NOT in the Bible? Go ahead. Show me up. Tell me where I stated that something is in the Bible that is NOT in the Bible. My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that. Can you point to any passage that claimed are from the Bible and say that it is not in the Bible?

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

The Power of Love

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Dude, did I not show where (according to Paul) Jesus way after he was no longer on earth told Paul that he, Paul was persecuting Jesus. You are free to acknowledge it or not but you are not free to state that I didn't show you it. Didn't Jesus say that the only way to heaven is by following Moses' Commandments? Yet Paul says that the commandments are not the way. I interpret that as trickery by Paul. You don't have to. But you cannot say truthfully that those are not in the Bible.

I am not contesting your interpretation of the passages. I am strictly asking you to acknowledge that they exist. I don't complain that you use John 10:30 (I and the Father are one) to interpret that Jesus is God. Similarly, I should be able to interpret Mark 10:18 (Why call me good. There is ONLY ONE who is good. That is God) as Jesus is NOT God. I am just surprised that you don't use the same barometer for Mark 10:18 as you do for John 10:30. Notice that Jesus mentioned God in Mark 10:18 and not Father.

If Jesus said that Paul was persecuting him, then you have to ask yourself on question. Either Jesus is lying or Paul is.

skeldon_man posted:

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

 

skeldon_man that's your problem you watch too many documentaries, why not search out the truth for yourself, read the bible it's going to set you free.

This is a common misconception. Some people think that the Bible was written in one language, translated to another language, then translated into yet another and so on until it was finally translated into the English. 

Here is how eloquently Matt Slick put it, "The complaint is that since it was rewritten so many times in different languages throughout history, it must have become corrupted. The "telephone" analogy is often used as an illustration.  It goes like this. One person tells another person a sentence who then tells another person, who tells yet another, and so on and so on until the last person hears a sentence that has little or nothing to do with the original one. The only problem with this analogy is that it doesn't fit the Bible at all.

The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek; and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly.  But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.

So when we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one-step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language in which a person needs to read. So we translate into Spanish from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Likewise we translate into the German from those same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as well. This is how it is done for each and every language into which we translate the Bible. We do not translate from the original languages to the English, to the Spanish, and then to the German. It is from the original languages to the English or into the Spanish or into the German. Therefore, the translations are very accurate and trustworthy regarding what the Bible originally said."

skeldon_man, I how that helps clear up your misconception of the bible. Read the Bible you will get revelation and be enlighten.

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

Ksazma, if were paying close attention you would've notice the six post above this one I've disputed your misunderstanding of the scriptures in reference to Paul and Jesus. It's become a habit of yours to overlook the corrections where you errant and to post outlandish statements without a ounce of supportive statement to back your claims.

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

"My interpretation of Paul is that he is a scoundrel who tricked people into seeing Jesus like how the Greeks and Romans saw Mithras and I can adequately provide arguments to support that."

Let's see your evidence of Paul trickery. 

Dude, did I not show where (according to Paul) Jesus way after he was no longer on earth told Paul that he, Paul was persecuting Jesus.

Answer: The voice asks, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Who was Saul persecuting? Is this where you cannot understand? Saul was persecuting the disciples/followers of Jesus, where it says, "persecute me", Jesus identifies with his disciples, just as how is his body was broken for us, the 40 lashes, being crucified that he went through.
==============================================

You are free to acknowledge it or not but you are not free to state that I didn't show you it. Didn't Jesus say that the only way to heaven is by following Moses'Commandments?

Answer: NO!, if you wish to dispute that show me where (Book, Chapter and scriptures) in the Bible Jesus stated that. Jesus is the only way to heaven. Such an exclusive statement may grate on the postmodern ear, but it is true nonetheless. The Bible teaches that there is no other way to salvation than through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.", See John 14:1-10 below for REFERENCE. He is not a way, as in one of many; He is the way, as in the one and only. No one, regardless of reputation, achievement, special knowledge, or personal holiness, can come to God the Father except through Jesus.

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

² In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

⁵ Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

⁷ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

¹⁰ Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
============================================== 

Yet Paul says that the commandments are not the way. I interpret that as trickery by Paul. You don't have to. But you cannot say truthfully that those are not in the Bible.

Answer: References please, where in the Bible and I mean you need to provide me with the book, chapter and scripture, let me narrow you search for you. Paul wrote the following books/letters...oops lets stick with books don't intend to confuse you.

Galatians 
1 and 2 Thessalonians
1 and 2 Corinthians and Romans
Ephesians, Philemon, Colossians, and Philippians
1 and 2 Timothy and Titus
It's believe he might have wrote Hebrew but not sure

so here your starting point. 
============================================== 

I am not contesting your interpretation of the passages. I am strictly asking you to acknowledge that they exist. I don't complain that you use John 10:30 (I and the Father are one) to interpret that Jesus is God. Similarly, I should be able to interpret Mark 10:18 (Why call me good. There is ONLY ONE who is good. That is God) as Jesus is NOT God. I am just surprised that you don't use the same barometer for Mark 10:18 as you do for John 10:30. Notice that Jesus mentioned God in Mark 10:18 and not Father.

Answer: Mark 10:15-20

¹⁵ Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

¹⁶ And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

¹⁷ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

¹⁸ And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

¹⁹ Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

²⁰ And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

When the "rich young ruler" addressed Jesus as "Good Teacher," the Lord posed this thought-provoking question: "Why do you call me good? No one is good except One, even God", as we see above in  (Mark. 10:17-18). In making this response, was Christ denying his divine nature? No; actually, the gist of his argument was just the opposite.

The young man carelessly had used the word "good," as though Jesus was merely a good teacher in much the same way that certain Jewish teachers had distinguished themselves as effective teachers, though apparently the expression "Good Teacher" was not formally used of the Jewish teachers.
==============================================

If Jesus said that Paul was persecuting him, then you have to ask yourself on question. Either Jesus is lying or Paul is.

Answer: Read my first answer to your question.

PS: Waiting to see your reference to the above mention. Wishing you and other a bless week.

Keith posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Keith posted:

I have pointed out time and again what you were interpreting in the Bible was incorrect. On that note of supportive statements, as you insisted, by all means provide us with evidence to support your latest claim as I quote you:

Good morning Brother Keith. And what makes you think that you are interpreting the bible the correct way? How many times the bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted? Who is to say the facts of the bible or any religious book are true? I have seen documentaries where events quoted in the bible are attributed to god when in fact they were natural phenomena..like parting of the Red Sea(wind) and Sodom and Gomorrah(meteorite disintegrating after it hit the French Alps). Who knows!

 

skeldon_man that's your problem you watch too many documentaries, why not search out the truth for yourself, read the bible it's going to set you free.

This is a common misconception. Some people think that the Bible was written in one language, translated to another language, then translated into yet another and so on until it was finally translated into the English. 

Here is how eloquently Matt Slick put it, "The complaint is that since it was rewritten so many times in different languages throughout history, it must have become corrupted. The "telephone" analogy is often used as an illustration.  It goes like this. One person tells another person a sentence who then tells another person, who tells yet another, and so on and so on until the last person hears a sentence that has little or nothing to do with the original one. The only problem with this analogy is that it doesn't fit the Bible at all.

The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek; and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly.  But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.

So when we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one-step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language in which a person needs to read. So we translate into Spanish from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Likewise we translate into the German from those same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as well. This is how it is done for each and every language into which we translate the Bible. We do not translate from the original languages to the English, to the Spanish, and then to the German. It is from the original languages to the English or into the Spanish or into the German. Therefore, the translations are very accurate and trustworthy regarding what the Bible originally said."

skeldon_man, I how that helps clear up your misconception of the bible. Read the Bible you will get revelation and be enlighten.

Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

skeldon_man posted:

Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

Imran posted:

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

 

I am not debating Keith because of his religious values. I am pointing out inconsistencies in the Bible and statements he posted about it. It being the Bible. I have no problem with what people choose to believe. However, when Keith make statements like "this is the absolute truth" then he has stepped away from stating what he believes and making a statement that we all should accept as true.

i haven't introduced Islam into this topic because I doubt Keith care to discuss and I have no intention to either. If you wish you can have a conversation with yourself about it.

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

ksazma posted:

Imran posted:

Kaz , is it against Islam for a Muslim to marry a Hindu.

Where did I claim to be a religious hack? I live by the laws of reason above all others.

I ask your opinion since you have made several quote from the Quran on this forum.

You debating a man about his religious value. What is yours in Islam .

 

I am not debating Keith because of his religious values. I am pointing out inconsistencies in the Bible and statements he posted about it. It being the Bible. I have no problem with what people choose to believe. However, when Keith make statements like "this is the absolute truth" then he has stepped away from stating what he believes and making a statement that we all should accept as true.

i haven't introduced Islam into this topic because I doubt Keith care to discuss and I have no intention to either. If you wish you can have a conversation with yourself about it.

And the inconsistencies you thought you find were not inconsistencies. I have provided references to contest your thought. 

There are outlandish statements you made about the Bible which are too many to mention and you cannot show me to this date evidence of where in the Bible it's. There were few scriptures you challenged me on due to your misunderstanding and again and again I urge you to read the scriptures in its entirety, nip picking will cause you look foolish especially on a subject you have little understanding of.

Showing Agape Love

Dude. You claimed that you are not a priest nor a Bible scholar but rather someone who rely on other peoples' writings. There are real Bible scholars who support my citations re the inconsistencies in the Bible. You have not provided anything to dispute my arguments. If anything, the passages you cited solidify my argument because they contradict the ones I cited which is what I have been arguing from some of my earliest posts to you. I was going to respond in detail but my internet browser was acting up last night. I will get back to it but for now I will say that your responses were inadequate.

I guess it is nit picking to cite that Jesus called people dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. 

Keith posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

Very sad indeed. Keith, you are like sheep following sheep. All the answers are in the bible for the Christians(lazy non thinkers)! I am glad my parents were not Christians. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

skeldon_man posted:

Keith posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Religion is the source of all the world's problems. Skeldon_man is not gullible to believe everything he reads. He has a mind of his own and does analyze what he hears or reads. It's called logical thinking. Cutting and pasting parts of the bible doesn't mean you you really comprehend the message of the bible.

In case you don't understand my reasoning for cut and paste, it's to present to you what has been said clearly in the Bible and also I don't what to be misquoting the Bible. All the answers are there in the Bible, I don't need to rely on my own thought process if it's already there in the Word of God.

Very sad indeed. Keith, you are like sheep following sheep. All the answers are in the bible for the Christians(lazy non thinkers)! I am glad my parents were not Christians. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Oh my here we go, happy to be a sheep following a sheep leading by our good shepherd. I am glad it was not an ass I am following 

Here is what the word of God said, so pay attention as to why I make the statement highlighted above. Why add to the Elohim, El Elyon, El Shaddai and Omniscience God words?

Read:

Deuteronomy 4:2 ² Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 ³² What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Revelation 22:18-19 ¹⁸ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

¹⁹ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


You think I would disobey and allow what has been written to come upon me? No!, I choose to be obedient to His word/command.

ksazma posted:

Dude. You claimed that you are not a priest nor a Bible scholar but rather someone who rely on other peoples' writings. There are real Bible scholars who support my citations re the inconsistencies in the Bible. You have not provided anything to dispute my arguments. If anything, the passages you cited solidify my argument because they contradict the ones I cited which is what I have been arguing from some of my earliest posts to you. I was going to respond in detail but my internet browser was acting up last night. I will get back to it but for now I will say that your responses were inadequate.

Absolutely right I'm not a Bible teacher nor a scholar. If you think your argument are not being disputed then you are not reading the reply post or has a failure to comprehend but then again it's the nature of who you are isn't it? When present with the fact you fold and divert. Go back and look at your pattern of what you publish in this thread.

Day one since you came on my post you have been looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily WITHOUT even READING the Bible chapter/scriptures in its entirety, you have failed miserable with your intent.

I have wasted valuable times in the morning answering your misguided questions. Remember I didn't come here attacking anyone, I was exercising my first amendment. I think it's time you start answering a few questions concerning your creed but not at this minute, in due time.

How We Respond to a Storm

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

How to Avoid an Empty Life

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From Emptiness to Fulfillment

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Sorry. I meant Ezekiel 23 not 20

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

ksazma posted:

I don't know what creed you are talking about dude. Did I start a topic propagating some creed? Suddenly the passages I questioned are small and unimportant? Jesus calling people who are not Jewish pigs, dogs, pricks, swine, etc. are small and unimportant? For your information, that is called bigotry to say the least.

You may post other passages that contradict those passages but they don't eliminate them. Just like you have a first amendment right, so do others. It would have been more ingenious if you had addressed the passages I commented on instead of diverting to other ones. It is your topic and what you want to propagate so it is your burden not mine.

Where have I not address your questions?

I asked for your thoughts not what the Bible states. Lets do them again.

1.   The Bible states that God told Abraham to take his ONLY son, Isaac. This was supposedly done when Isaac was a teenager. Now at the time that Isaac was a teenager, Ishmael was also Abraham's son and in his twenties. Was the Bible wrong to state that Isaac was at that time Abraham's ONLY son or was God wrong to do so?

What do you know, my family is away and I decided to check in an there is a slew of questions from you my friend ksazma. Lucky for you I've time to entertain your juvenile questions.

Answer: I am going let you answer this yourself. When God said to Abraham, "take thy ONLY son whom you love" was Ishmael living or was he in the company of Abraham at that time?

2.   Jesus called non-Jews dogs, pigs, pricks, swine, etc. He also ignored anyone who was not Jewish scoffing at them and stating that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Two questions. Was Jesus bigoted to do so and was he also one of horrible attitudes and disposition to call others horrible names?

Answer: Well, let's define for the sake of those looking on and don't know, "bigot" means "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.," according to the Webster Dictionary.

Answering this question, once taking into account the Matthew 5:17-19 passage, would depend on how Jesus Christ reacted to those with whom he disagreed.

Examples for how Christ dealt with sin in the Bible include the woman who was caught in the act of adultery; Christ’s handling of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector; and his reaction to traders in the temple court.

For the adulterous woman, whom law dictated should be stoned to death, Christ said the man without sin should cast the first stone, knowing that no one could under such a directive. Each man left until the woman was the only one remaining. While this appears merciful on the surface, he did leave her with a warning, "Go forth and sin no more."

For Zacchaeus, once again Christ forgave the tax collector’s sins, but only noted that salvation had come to his house after he decided to make good on any and all persons he’d cheated in his time in the position (Luke 19:1-10).

Finally, for the traders who were conducting commerce in the temple courts, "he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!'" (John 2:15-16).

Understand this, Jesus Christ had a forgiving and loving side, but that was tempered by an intolerance for wrongdoing. In other words, while he would hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors, his mission was not to appease, tolerate, or condone what they did, but to change their hearts and behaviors.

He was accepting of them, but not of their sin.

So does that make Jesus Christ a bigot ksazma? Whatever you think will obviously depend on your own system of values and beliefs.

3.   We are told that Jesus can provide for us. Yet we see many instances in the Bible of him constantly complaining about the possessions of others lamenting that he doesn't even have a place to rest his head. Was Jesus covetous to the point of acknowledging that the things people have are theirs and it is not his place to just envy them? Wouldn't it be better if he would have changed his situation by maybe getting a more rewarding occupation than just being a fisherman?

Answer: First of all if you had read the Bible as you claim many time you will note that no where in the Bible speak of Jesus occupation. Secondly, show us where Jesus was covetous envy of others? Don't bother, it don't exist.

God created us to love people and use things, but a materialist loves things and uses people. There is nothing wrong with having possessions and a successful career. The apostle Paul wrote, "Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy" (1 Timothy 6:17). God can bless a person.

Jesus did not extol poverty as some great virtue. In fact, He tell someone, the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. When Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me” (Matthew 19:21), the Bible says that he went away sorrowful. It was a test to see whether God was more important to him than his things.

Money is not the root of all evil; the love of it is. The problem with wealth is not in having it. It is how we get it. It is how we guard it. And it is how we give it.

4.   While on the cross, Jesus is heard asking God why He forsook him? Two questions. Didn't Jesus have enough faith and trust in God to know that God would not forsake him and secondly wasn't Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross and shouldn't have been so surprised or unprepared?

Answer: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was "forsaken" by God. It is certain that God approved His work.

Jesus quoted this Psalm 22:1 in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. In your spare time read the Psalms 22:11-18.

Your quote: "Jesus supposed to already know about how things will go on the cross"

The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" In Matthew 26:39 says, "Let this cup pass from me". A little later, Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God.

What cup you might ask am I talking about. The "cup" to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, "Let this cup pass from me," He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. In a nutshell nothing was a surprise to Jesus.

5.   Lastly and this is less of an issue but it came up because Imran somehow suggested that discourses about God should be civil and decent. So I responded by posting Ezekiel 20 to demonstrate how God talks and describes things. We see in Ezekiel 20 that God is talking about the two sisters who are whores. He went on to describe how they like their nipples bruised and their vaginas abused. He even elaborated that they like penis large like that of horses with huge ejaculations (just paraphrasing). Question. What was God trying to convey here and was this the best use of His vast wisdom and vocabulary? Couldn't He have been more selective in the words and descriptions He chooses? Lots of people are over obsessive with large penises. Was God also that obsessive or was it the writers?

I am not interested in you posting passages from the Bible. I already know what the bible says. I am interested in your opinions of these for that is the only way to further the discussion. If you say that the Bible says so. That would be the end of the discussion because the Bible isn't here to explain itself. You are.

Answer: Here is my question for you. Who God was referring to in Ezekiel 23? I expect you to know since you confess that you read the Bible and know what it says. Therefore enlighten us of your understanding of this chapter of Ezekiel 23. I can only my opinion if you have understanding of what you read.

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

That's a Bitch Slap. This guy is a hypocrite.

Imran posted:

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

That's a Bitch Slap. This guy is a hypocrite.

Only a fool would consider that a bitch slap but that is who you are right.

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Suddenly you discover the meaning of the word contradiction? Have you seen me starting a topic to propagate any faith? Do you see me posting sermons for anyone? I deal with subjects as they present themselves. Since you presented your Bible, it is your burden to represent it and respond to questions/comments that others have about it

ksazma posted:

Keith posted:

Do you remember the topic on contradictions, sure you do. Since you introduce the topic, I have a few contradictions for you to clear up for me in the days ahead, by the way you are Muslim right?

Always understand that when you trying to point out the speck in ones eyes make sure there's non in yours.

Suddenly you discover the meaning of the word contradiction? Have you seen me starting a topic to propagate any faith? Do you see me posting sermons for anyone? I deal with subjects as they present themselves. Since you presented your Bible, it is your burden to represent it and respond to questions/comments that others have about it

Don't let us get off topic now, pay attention to the answers provided to your proposed questions which I have answered in great details. Also I am expecting you to answer the ones I raised. Focus on that.