You are not idiot for not wanting to accept Islam because the same Islamic  teachings you are bashing clearly states " that there is no compulsion in religion".

What makes you an idiot is  your  nonsensical argument that the ISIS  came about because of Islamic teachings. You damm well know and over the years you posted  that the invasion of Iraq was no good so now some 12 years afterwards when the shit hit the fan you are blaming Islam.

Storm, it's clear you are unaware of the dynamics of consultants like Halliburton, Blackwater, et al and the Washington DC nest.

Lie??? 

Cheeney  still seeing the $$$$ and  barking war!!

I presume you know Ivan Karamazov's argument that Jesus is at fault for the Inquisition....if only he had given into the temptations of the devil! The point is these people are a product of their own thinking. The American left an elected government with better cooperative systems in place than ever was there prior to Saddam. They even left better roads and functioning infrastructure but they could not leave better behavior. What is happening there is a natural instability existing since the murder of the successors of Mohamed and the splintering of Islam. This is an old fight on old doctrine and old dogmas and old grievances. This is a Sunni/Shia fight and given neither respects or accept others then it is others beware as well. What do these people call their government again....a caliphate?

What does his dogs of war mentality have to do with the fact his company does not make missiles note do they have a dog in this fight?

Where did it start D2? Who has the disease  in their system?

Who created the Taliban to fight the Russians ?

Who decided to invade a Iraq on the premise of lies?

Who install a puppet regime to control the oil?

Who call for democratic elections all over the world and when the people Palestinians voted for Hamas THEY ARE TERMED TERRORISTS AND CANNOT BE RECOGNIZED.

iCAN GO ON AND ON. 

you are unaware what I know as well. Blackwater is State Department and Diplomatic security so they are on the ground at the embassy but not in the field. The CIA is more likely there. However, that they may get scouting contracts etc did not motivate this war. That is my point.

Did Haliburton profitted from the Iraq invasion, yes or no?

You are on one of those nonsense zealot rants one hear from Anjem Choudary as he prances the streets of London speaking of grievances. None of that shit list you have there produced those scoundrels.

What????? Did not motivate this war??Tell that to a an infant!

Cheeney   the second in command and was one of the chief decision makers to start the war in Iraq.

Storm, the Americans left a guy who immediately sent all the Sunnis to a Gulag. What about what Maliki did in his de-Baathification that you do not understand? What do you think led to the Sunni insurgency and the subsequent US troop surge? Have you forgotten history? The British left us with a functioning democracy and look what we got - the PNC and the PPP.

And why are you hanging on to the Sunni/Shiite split as if it is an indictment on Islam? This has been so since centuries ago and there weren't ancestral StormBorns yelling this mantra.

I deliberatley started slowly to make my case as to the reason for these scoundrels. You on the other hand is all over the place with your rants, now it is a shit list. 

Shit list or not the scoundrels are real!!

Quit with that bull crap quote. Islam created the dhimmitude not Christianity or Hinduism. It is always an easy crutch to quote the scriptures. Even the devil, I keep reminding you folks, is prodigious with scriptural quotes delivered in extremely mellifluous ways. He is still the bloody devil!

There can always be a case that some invasive event is not good for some group. I personally think and that is clear given the overt racism experienced, Indians and Africans in guyana are not good for Amerindians. I do not see them wanting to set up a Guyanese caliphate by murdering Indos and Afros!

Storm's summation results in this:

1. Bush was right to invade Iraq
2. Bush did a wonderful job with democracy in Iraq post-Saddam
3. Islam is the cause of ISIS

Ain't much to discuss with Storm on this baby.

Cut to the chase...that is by definition and overt declaration an internecine war by zealots of deciding to create a Caliphate in the name of Ali.

You might not agree with them being called muslims but they call themselves muslims, behave like muslims speak to the creed and even knock their heads in the desert sand five times a day.

This is muslim against muslim and has little to do with the west except the west is seen as not about this caliphate crapola but about universalia and a little thing called democracy

Thank you and I am out of here.

They are a pack of murderous thugs and Islamic teachings does not allow that.

Never said that. I argued against the manner of the entry into the war not  against the fact that it was going to be an eventuality.

Bush of course did a poor job but that complemented if not augmented the excuse for these people to protract their long standing inter tribal Muslim war.

Never said Islam is the cause of Isis. I said it is an inter tribal Islamic tribal war that begun with the murder of the four successors of Mohamed. I

As I always noted, a damacine prince running away from the strife of nascent Islam but in the his own way created Al Andulus  on the Iberian peninsula. It flourished for close to 800 years and is what we call classic Islam and what most muslims extol as muslim multiculturalism.

Alas, the intervention of the Arabian princes and their demands for conformity ruined all that and the Christians drove them out. This is a war that has from the beginning been a worm at the core of Islam of what ever its claims about purity level. It is a war of different versions of rights and conformity in islam

The Bible did mention at the end times, ppl would hasten in huge numbers towards false doctrines and do dispicable things. That is not Islam bashing-it is muslims who are bring in the end times. And muslims are quick to point out the rising numbers of muslim converts. Islamist seems to grieve the holy spirit by claiming Mohammad is the Comforter. Mentioned by the Christ in His sermons as the greatest sin a person can commit.

A muslim view the rising number of converts as the prophesy which tells them that the last religion that comes upon the earth will dominate the others. They think it would be peacefully done. A Christain view their pronouncements as indications of the end times. Interesting, no western government will be able to curb islam in their countries-those countries have not lived according to the codes of God. Suh God will let the Devil have his way. Just as the story of Biblical Job. God gave a message of Him and Lucifer in the Big Book.

What muslims fail to comprehend, the wrath of God falls on every living soul. The Christians will hover the debacles on the face of earth. 

God already sey, they are blinded and can never see the end game of Lucifer.

Why dont Al Yuh live Al Yuh life Honesly, Caring and Compassionate and fuget wid all dem Jhanjat. Preaching one thing and doing another is the norm for "RELIGIOUS" people!!!!

It was a result of alyuh backing these types.  UBL attacked the WTC, what was it the great Bush did.

The rise of ISIS is a result of a weak Obama and no strategy.

Please point us to where Islam permits this. Where is this decree in the Qur'an?

Where did Islam create the dhimmitude? Where is this command in the Qur'an?

I saw a story on Investigation Discovery last night where a new priest took over the lead in a church in 2001 and for the next 10 years carried on a sexual affair with another church member's wife behind his own wife's back. He eventually put a bullet into that church member's head in the hope of always having the wife and the over 1 million dollars that the church member had. So what book and which God he was following and preaching to his congregation for more than 10 years while he was banging this other woman?

Political Islam ie the disputations as to succession created a pantheon of specific spiritual practices  which gravitated into the belief system and is indistinguishable  from textual imperative  since as tradition. It gives the Shia the sense the of being a people set upon ie a sense of victimization and martyrdom that they celebrate in Ashuras.

The Sunni also have their political beliefs as the nomenclature of their self identification is about he sunnas or the traditions indicate. That is also indistinguishable from the spiritual context actually they see it as the context for their spirituality.

It is this that fuels the fighting. Whether you like it or not and claim it has no basis in Islam, it does; at least for these Muslims. ISIS is ideologically grounded in the rise of a caliphate as the true inheritance and trajectory of Muslims from Mohamed to Ali to now.

When you create the a tax to label those not like you and as illustrative that they are your subjects you create an other than class, ie not Muslim or dhimmi.

I do not care to find where in my translation of the Koran where I read it but read it I did. I do not have to validate that for you as from where I stand, I   am firm in my belief that exists.

The thing Muslims get criticized for more than anything else is that they seek to base their belief/actions on a book written centuries ago. If they will carry that as a burden then that should also be basis for any statement on what Islam permits. It is inaccurate to state that Islam permits something when it is not expressed or even implied in the text. It is more accurate to state that Muslims permits the above. Muslim and Islam are not synonymous terms. Islam does not permit anyone whether Muslim or non-Muslim to do what you stated above. In fact the battlefield rules of engagement are clearly against it.

I am absolutely certain you did not read that in the Qur'an no matter which translation you read. It does not exist there.

I know the difference between the ideology and the ideologue. Never mixed the two. To imagine immaculate perception and excuse any who say they act in the tradition of the book as not knowing the book generates a paradox. It is supposed to be simple, straight forward and created solely on the basis of correcting errors. Why are those reading it and acting supposedly on belief in it turn out so horribly wrong not to mention  evil? I call them what the call themselves. I would be wrong not to call Isabella And Ferdinand Christians. That is what they called themselves and I do not believe the bible predicated the inquisitor and the inquisition.

For the record, I find the actions of ISIS highly despicable and refuse to give them or their actions cover by suggesting that their actions are a result of prior actions. While Saddam Hussein was able to keep Iraq under control and removing him was a mistake, it does not give ISIS the right to do what they are currently doing.

Saddam was doing exactly what they are doing in meticulous and calculated ways. Even now, despite the excessive violence of these people  they still have not accrued Saddam's body count or numbers of people he displaced internally.

The same thing that happened to the priest that I mentioned earlier who while reading and preaching the Bible to his congregation for over ten year still could not avoid banging one of his church member and eventually killing her husband. They say that they are following the texts but in fact they are just conning those not aware of their con. Most of the Muslims in the world don't take Muslims like ISIS seriously because they know that they are wrong. Just like most Christians would not need to have their arm twisted to know that this priest was wrong.

You are correct to call Isabella and Ferdinand Christians and just like you noted that the Bible (Christianity) does not permit what they did, you would be just in making the same distinction by stating that ISIS are Muslims but Islam does not permit their actions as stated above.

What I remembered of Iraq during Saddam's time was that Christians were free to practice their faith. Saddam used to celebrate Christmas with them. The body count may just be a made up story similar to the WMD and babies in incubators ones.

yup....give that infallible incorrigible and unknown to all but the cognoscenti of classical Arabic crap to the ignorant.  Some one took the time and highlighted the section on the tax for me. Maybe you could go there and explain it away since you know what I reference.

That did not mean he was not a cruel and horrible leader who on the whim would throw someone off a roof. I bet you saw the video where he murdered the entire leadership to take office. I did. Ask the swamp arabs about their body count at the hands of Saddam. They were reporting on it by themselves.

I don't know what you reference outside of what you write here. If someone took the time to highlight it to you, you would remember it. You are indeed one of the more knowledgeable posters here. I don't have the time either to go to another forum to discuss what I disagree with here. GNI is already using up more time than I usually have to spare.

So did Chalabi and we all know how his claims turned out.

I am not inventing it. It is there chapter and verse as plain as day so you out to know it as doctrine or as a point of polemical disputation. I wont even worry with the argument

D2 is  indeed one of the knowledgeable  GNIers  but as I said earlier he is playing the fool.

He damn well knows that Islam does not preach violence and the mad  actions by those who claim to be Muslims is not authenticated by any of our holy books.

It does not exist in the Qur'an. Not even implied. But like you said, you don't have to cite it.