quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:

quote:

Originally posted by Horse Man:
This is just a load of crock seriously, you guys do not believe that people can just buy influence with his Excellency right?

Come on now stop the nonsense.

You blind or what? Even on GNI there are a couple of ppl who bought influence with BJ.

yeah like who?

quote:

Originally posted by Horse Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:

quote:

Originally posted by Horse Man:
This is just a load of crock seriously, you guys do not believe that people can just buy influence with his Excellency right?

Come on now stop the nonsense.

You blind or what? Even on GNI there are a couple of ppl who bought influence with BJ.

yeah like who?

caribj

A classic example of the govt. speaking with two tongues
AUGUST 19, 2011 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER LETTERS

Dear Editor,

It is a total shame to hear and read every living day about corruption and malpractices in this country. Dr. Cheddi Jagan and his wife would probably be ashamed and very disappointed about what is taking place both in the party and the country they struggled so hard for.

I am very disappointed to hear from Dr. Luncheon’s mouth that the transaction between an embattled New York businessman and President Jagdeo is a private arrangement. As far as I’m aware we have a fulltime president, so as long as a person is holding the office as president he is answerable to the people of this country, and there is nothing private about what he does. Are we to understand that, according to Dr. Luncheon, if a public officer transacts business which could compromise his /her office with any member of the public there is nothing wrong with that?

The public may recall and I hope Dr. Luncheon could remember that a certain member in the legal profession had applied many years ago to be appointed as a high court judge but was denied that appointment because this same administration said that he was not fit for that position, citing reasons along the lines of him defending drug barons and associating with criminal elements and socializing at all the night clubs which would compromise his office as a judge.

Mr. Editor, this is a classic example of the government speaking with two tongues. The President dealt with someone who we later found out is being investigated for alleged fraud in New York, the President claimed him to be his friend. So there should be nothing private about the President of this country. Let the truth prevail.

R. Singh

Source

Top drawer stuff

quote:

Originally posted by redux:
Top drawer stuff

Check out the comments on YouTube too.

quote:

Originally posted by the new yorker:

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Max:
Same flight doesn't mean you are in a plane seat.
Mike should give you a good busing down for your fassness!

i never said it was. i think you need to slow down and read a bit more carefully. you keep tripping over yourself by moving too "fass." i simply asked him HOW he knew which flight EA was on if Ahmad never made it on the plane, nor checked in. did he have a premonition? did a little birdie tell him? was it a part of his horoscope that day? hmmm?

oh rass i juss see dis....NY what diff will it make if i tell you the flight # and our first class seat number EH??? yall done try the Bruda and yall done noo he goin to jail....he will not go to jail....yall eezz off the man naa...The matter is in the hands of the relevant authorities so let justice takes it’s course.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:

oh rass i juss see dis....NY what diff will it make if i tell you the flight # and our first class seat number EH??? yall done try the Bruda and yall done noo he goin to jail....he will not go to jail....yall eezz off the man naa...The matter is in the hands of the relevant authorities so let justice takes it’s course.

Bai, yuh wutliss, is datt the way you keep roja, cussing people 1:38am, wah happen, you wifey throw yuh in the bath tub to sleep? Isn't abstentian period 6am to 6pm?

Jagdeo defends purchases from Ahmad, tax-waivers
Written by Demerara Waves Sunday, 21 August 2011 09:13


President Bharrat Jagdeo

President Bharrat Jagdeo’s office has defended sourcing 29 tons of building materials from his friend, New York realtor Ed Ahmad, who has been indicted by the Federal Bureau of Investigators for fraud. “It is widely known and established that Mr. Ahmad is a businessman. The shipment was of goods bought by the president for his personal use and consigned to the president,” the Office of the President said in a statement.

As reported here on Friday, Ahmad has been an indicted by the FBI in a mortgage fraud scheme in which he and others fraudulently obtained more than $50 million in loans, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said Friday. No mention was made of the cost of the items. Jagdeo, who leaves office before year-ned after serving two terms, is building a private mansion at Sparendaam village, East Coast Demerara near the Atlantic coast.

The Office of the President also assured that Jagdeo has not evaded taxes on the importation of the materials, saying that he is entitled to waivers as president. “Also already established was the fact that the waiver on the taxes due was based on an act of parliament enacted before president Jagdeo’s tenure and available to all the executive presidents of Guyana,” according to the statement. Concerns had been raised in some quarters about whether Jagdeo has paid customs duties and taxes on the items imported.

The President’s office also restated that Jagdeo and Ahmad have been friends for about 15 years but the Guyanese leader would at the same time not tolerate law-breaking or deny him. “I know this gentleman a long time, about 15 years now, I know many other people… if Ed Ahmad breaks the law in New York then he must face the consequences, and I cannot deny knowing somebody, I know him very well… I know this gentleman, and I have considered him all these years as a friend but, if he does anything illegal it does not mean that I will condone this, no I will not condone it,” the president has said.

The governing Peoples Progressive Party (PPP) has denied that Ahmad has helped finance its 2011 general election campaign. Ahmad, a former member of the Guyana Police Force, now owns a hardware store located at the Industrial Site premises that once housed the operations of the PPP-aligned Mirror Newspaper. He has been also sold several acres of land at Leonora, West Coast Demerara that once belonged to the Guyana Sugar Corporation (GuySuco).

Source

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:
oh rass i juss see dis....NY what diff will it make if i tell you the flight # and our first class seat number EH??? yall done try the Bruda and yall done noo he goin to jail....he will not go to jail....yall eezz off the man naa...The matter is in the hands of the relevant authorities so let justice takes it’s course.

the point of asking was to point out that either YOU or the FRIENDS OF AHMAD were lying about him boarding the plane. you say he did, they say he didn't. That's all.

Building materials
By STABROEK STAFF | LETTERS | THURSDAY, AUGUST 25, 2011

Dear Editor,

Last week it was widely reported that a 29-tonne container of building materials shipped to President Jagdeo by businessman Ed Ahmad in 2009 was indeed cleared by Customs duty-free. The most important point of the news reports was that taxes on such a shipment could be waived under a law which had been available to previous presidents.

Perhaps the President could provide evidence that he paid Mr Ahmad for the imported materials and for the shipping costs. In most democratic societies there are laws placing restrictions on the receipt of gifts by all public officials including a heads of state. It should be recalled that in 2006 Mr Ahmad had made a cash gift of $40,000 to Congressman Gregory Meeks. When the FBI began investigating, Mr Meeks began a hasty scramble to legitimize the deal. The gift was allegedly converted to a loan three years after its receipt, and Mr Meeks provided proof that the loan had been repaid at 12 per cent interest. The FBI is not buying this, however, and is still investigating. Mr Meeks is also under investigation by the House Ethics Committee (House of Representatives).

Leader of the Opposition Robert Corbin has not called for an investigation, so is he satisfied that this 29-tonne transaction is sanctioned within the law?

Yours faithfully,
Mike Persaud

Source

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:
Building materials
By STABROEK STAFF | LETTERS | THURSDAY, AUGUST 25, 2011

Dear Editor,

Last week it was widely reported that a 29-tonne container of building materials shipped to President Jagdeo by businessman Ed Ahmad in 2009 was indeed cleared by Customs duty-free. The most important point of the news reports was that taxes on such a shipment could be waived under a law which had been available to previous presidents.

Perhaps the President could provide evidence that he paid Mr Ahmad for the imported materials and for the shipping costs. In most democratic societies there are laws placing restrictions on the receipt of gifts by all public officials including a heads of state. It should be recalled that in 2006 Mr Ahmad had made a cash gift of $40,000 to Congressman Gregory Meeks. When the FBI began investigating, Mr Meeks began a hasty scramble to legitimize the deal. The gift was allegedly converted to a loan three years after its receipt, and Mr Meeks provided proof that the loan had been repaid at 12 per cent interest. The FBI is not buying this, however, and is still investigating. Mr Meeks is also under investigation by the House Ethics Committee (House of Representatives).

Leader of the Opposition Robert Corbin has not called for an investigation, so is he satisfied that this 29-tonne transaction is sanctioned within the law?

Yours faithfully,
Mike Persaud

Source

The PNC would not call for anything, they probably have their action going and a hoodwink arrangement with the PPP.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:
[FLASH_VIDEO]<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"
codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0"
height="345"
width="420"
> value="transparent"
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/> /> /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
wmode="transparent"
pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"
allowScriptAccess="never"
height="345"
width="420"
src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmgqWYjyxZQ?version=3&hl=en_GB"
/>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

I wonder why this video has been removed by the user from you tube?

http://federalcrimesblog.com/2...rtgage-fraud-scheme/

Ed Ahmad likely to face more charges - US attorney
By STABROEK EDITOR | LOCAL | TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2011

US-based Guyanese businessman Ed Ahmad may likely face more mortgage fraud charges, US prosecutor Alexander Solomon told Judge Dora Irizarry today when the accused made an appearance before the judge in New York for a status conference. According to a document on the court proceedings, seen by this newspaper, the prosecutor said that the government is likely to “supersede to add new charges and/or additional defendants within approximately two months.” The government also said that it is preparing discovery material but pointed out that the evidence they have to go through is voluminous as there are about 58 boxes of mostly bank records to go through.


Ed Ahmad

“Discovery is being indexed and will be sent to copy center for defense within two weeks,” the court document said.The judge granted the prosecution’s request to designate the case as being a “complex” one. Last month a US federal grand jury in Brooklyn, New York had returned an indictment charging Ahmad with participating in a mortgage fraud scheme in which he and others fraudulently obtained more than US$50 million in loans.

The indictment alleged that Ahmad conspired to defraud financial institutions, including Bank of New York, JP Morgan Chase, Citibank, N.A., Countrywide Financial, Flushing Savings Bank, Fremont Investment and Loan, HSBC Bank USA, N.A., IndyMac Bank, One West Bank, U.S. Bank, and Wells Fargo & Company, and wholesale mortgage lenders, including New Century Mortgage Corporation and Ocwen Financial Corporation. Ahmad is charged with one count of conspiracy to commit bank and wire fraud and 10 counts of bank fraud. Ahmad had been arrested by the FBI in New York on July 22 as he was preparing to board a flight to Guyana. He is accused of a series of fraudulent practices including falsifying loan applications. He was later released on a bond of US$2.5M but the August 19 indictment superseded the previous case against him.

Guyanese journalist Duane Fowler, who was in court when Ahmad appeared today, told Stabroek News that Ahmad told him that he would be vindicated. He also denied local reports that he had been taken off a plane at the JFK airport but said he had met investigators at the airport. Ahmad will make another court appearance on October 28. Ahmad’s arrest has prompted both President Bharrat Jagdeo and the ruling PPP to defend their ties with him. Ahmad had shipped building material to President Jagdeo at State House and had been listed as a contact person for a PPP support group event put on in New York for presidential candidate Donald Ramotar.

Source

.

quote:

Ahmad’s arrest has prompted both President Bharrat Jagdeo and the ruling PPP to defend their ties with him. Ahmad had shipped building material to President Jagdeo at State House and had been listed as a contact person for a PPP support group event put on in New York for presidential candidate Donald Ramotar.

Has there been a verification that the shipment to BJ was not a gift?

..

quote:

Originally posted by asj:

..

= EQUALS

MORE 29 TONNES OF TILES FOR STATE HOUSE COMPLIMENTS OF EDUL.

Its only a matter of time before Jagdeo join his 'gifted' friends at the NY Hilton.
Panama comes to mind.

Poor Ed, I have a feeling they're gonna get him,that's why they're bringing everything into the mix. If it's one charge that stays,dem boys making sure he's going down.
So sad, but to those who's been scammed well, that's a whole new ball of wax, so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by cain:
Poor Ed, I have a feeling they're gonna get him,that's why they're bringing everything into the mix. If it's one charge that stays,dem boys making sure he's going down.
So sad, but to those who's been scammed well, that's a whole new ball of wax, so to speak.

Hope the DA goes after the others who seem to have fallen off the radar.

A man from the African country of Ivory Coast who lives in Richmond Hill stopped me recently on the street. He knew me from my work and he knew that I am from Guyana. He told me that he heard on the news that Ahmad got arrested for fraud. I told him yes it was true. Then he looked at me puzzled and then said. "How can a man like Ahmad who is so rich be arrested by the police it just does not make any sense". Then he walked away up the street with a puzzled look on his face. I think to my self "Different worlds for different folks"

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:
A man from the African country of Ivory Coast who lives in Richmond Hill stopped me recently on the street. He knew me from my work and he knew that I am from Guyana. He told me that he heard on the news that Ahmad got arrested for fraud. I told him yes it was true. Then he looked at me puzzled and then said. "How can a man like Ahmad who is so rich be arrested by the police it just does not make any sense". Then he walked away up the street with a puzzled look on his face. I think to my self "Different worlds for different folks"

A lot of ordinary folks from different countries felt good that an immigrant like Mr Ahmad Mmade it in NY. Dont forget that Mr Ahmad picture was hanging over Liberty Ave for quite some time. Immigrant entrepeneurs felt that Mr Ahmad was thier role model.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:

quote:

Originally posted by Wally:
A man from the African country of Ivory Coast who lives in Richmond Hill stopped me recently on the street. He knew me from my work and he knew that I am from Guyana. He told me that he heard on the news that Ahmad got arrested for fraud. I told him yes it was true. Then he looked at me puzzled and then said. "How can a man like Ahmad who is so rich be arrested by the police it just does not make any sense". Then he walked away up the street with a puzzled look on his face. I think to my self "Different worlds for different folks"

A lot of ordinary folks from different countries felt good that an immigrant like Mr Ahmad Mmade it in NY. Dont forget that Mr Ahmad picture time. Immigrant entrepeneurs felt that Mr Ahmad was thier rold model.

But turned out to be an alleged fraudster. I hope parents and mature persons caution the youth about such scamsters. Remember Madoff was also a hero to some.

There are many living just below the radar screen, doing comfortable well legally and giving back to the community and Guyana without looking for fame or special favours. The man seem to have had a price tag on everything and ensured he got his ounce of flesh for whatever he gave.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:
Dont forget that Mr Ahmad picture was hanging over Liberty Ave for quite some time. Immigrant entrepeneurs felt that Mr Ahmad was thier role model.

i think that may have been Ed's fatal mistake: he loved to be in the spotlight and loved to have his picture and name splashed on things. there's nothing inherently wrong with that...if you're not a thief and a crook. it always amazes me how guys like him think they are so untouchable that they can lie and steal and they're never going to get caught, no matter how much attention they try to bring to themselves.

i think there are A LOT of real estate fraudsters in richmond hill/south ozone park who do their stealing and lying quietly. go through the real estate public records and you'll see names like nalini singh, mahadai bridglall, dindyal singh to name a few who made millions stripping equity from homes. i just hope that even though they don't bring attention to themselves, the authorities are onto them all the same.

quote:

Originally posted by the new yorker:

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:
Dont forget that Mr Ahmad picture was hanging over Liberty Ave for quite some time. Immigrant entrepeneurs felt that Mr Ahmad was thier role model.

i think that may have been Ed's fatal mistake: he loved to be in the spotlight and loved to have his picture and name splashed on things. there's nothing inherently wrong with that...if you're not a thief and a crook. it always amazes me how guys like him think they are so untouchable that they can lie and steal and they're never going to get caught, no matter how much attention they try to bring to themselves.

Don't forget the video that he made of himself with Cliff Joseph singing like a fool. If a jury sees that he will get another few years added on. Stupidity at its best.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:
Don't forget the video that he made of himself with Cliff Joseph singing like a fool. If a jury sees that he will get another few years added on. Stupidity at its best.

Meeks sought to introduce Ahmad to Stanford
By STABROEK EDITOR | LOCAL | MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2011

As charges of unethical conduct continue to swirl around Queens, New York Representative, Gregory Meeks, the New York Post has published details of an email where Meeks was trying to get a cricket invitation for controversial Guyanese businessman Ed Ahmad to the VIP Box of disgraced Antigua-based banker Allen Stanford.

All three men are facing serious charges for varied alleged infractions ranging from Stanford’s alleged massive Ponzi scheme to Ahmad’s alleged New York mortgage fraud to Meeks alleged taking of cash for favours. Ahmad’s plight has also raised uncomfortable questions for President Bharrat Jagdeo and the ruling PPP as he was the supplier of goods to the President at State House and also occupies the former headquarters of the PPP-aligned paper, The Mirror.


Ed Ahmad

In a story published yesterday, the NY Post revealed a February 19, 2008 email from Meeks to the Stanford Group enquiring about a VIP seat for Ahmad at an Antigua match as Ahmad wanted to meet Stanford. The Meeks email came a year after Meeks had been handed US$40,000 by Ahmad in a controversial transaction that has put Meeks at the centre of an ethics probe and a federal inquiry. The New York Post said that Stanford later threw cash at the congressman a few months later — hosting a lavish fund-raiser in St. Croix in July 2008, complete with champagne and caviar, that raised at least US$13,800 for Meeks’ campaign committee.

The New York Post said that Meeks’ relationship with Stanford dates back to at least 2003. Meeks, the report noted, also sits on both the House’s Financial Services and Foreign Affairs committees and belonged to the Caribbean Caucus, an informal group of lawmakers Stanford had tried to woo. In 2006, Stanford called in a favour, the report said, asking Meeks to use his influence with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Stanford wanted Meeks to tell Chavez to convene a criminal probe into a whistleblower at Stanford’s Venezuelan bank.

Meeks allegedly was heard on a speakerphone telling Stanford he would intervene with Chavez, according to the Miami Herald. Meeks soon visited Chavez, ostensibly to thank him for providing cheap home heating oil to Americans. However, a year later, the whistleblower was arrested, according to the New York Post. Stanford was indicted in June 2009 on charges of masterminding a US$7 billion fraud and is currently awaiting trial.

Meeks, the report said, refused to answer any questions about his relationship with Stanford, or why he agreed to introduce Ahmad to the billionaire. Both men have an interest in cricket, the New York Post noted. Stanford owned a cricket team and stadium, and Ahmad sponsored his own cricket competition in New York. Meeks and Ahmad are longtime friends, the newspaper noted. “The congressman held after-hours meetings with the real-estate broker at his Queens district office, and Ahmad boasted that he had his own personal political representation.”

Meeks had claimed that the US$40,000 he took from Ahmad was a loan, but a House ethics panel said it appeared to be a gift. Meeks paid back the money in 2010, but only after federal investigators probed Ahmad about it. Ahmad, who is currently out on US$2.5 million bail and prohibited from travelling to Guyana, faces up to 30 years in prison. The government has said that additional charges or more defendants are likely in his case.

Source

Circle of friends now threatens to become a circle of felons
SEPTEMBER 23, 2011 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER NEWS

(Reprinted from the New York Post) The e-mail was flagged “Importance: High.” A top executive at the Stanford Financial Group wanted an answer.
“Have we an update on Antigua?” demanded Lionel C. Johnson, a senior VP. “Greg Meeks and Ed Ahmad have both called again this afternoon inquiring about the status of Ahmad’s VIP-box invitations.”


Edul Ahmad

The Feb. 19, 2008, e-mail, obtained by The Post, was addressed to Yolanda Suarez, chief counsel for the company run by now-disgraced billionaire banker Allen Stanford. It and other insistent messages during that period show Queens Rep. Gregory Meeks was determined to get his pal, Edul Ahmad, invited to a Caribbean cricket match so he could meet another Meeks buddy, Stanford. The urgent pleas were made a year after Ahmad handed Meeks $40,000.

Stanford would also throw cash at the congressman a few months later — hosting a lavish fundraiser in St. Croix in July 2008, complete with Cristal champagne and caviar, that raised at least $13,800 for Meeks’ campaign committee. Stanford, 61, is awaiting trial on charges he engineered a $7 billion Ponzi scheme. Ahmad, 43, was indicted this summer in New York, accused of falsifying $50 million in loan applications. And Meeks, 57, is under investigation by the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct for the $40,000 Ahmad payment and is at the center of a separate federal probe for his role in a Queens nonprofit that allegedly stiffed Hurricane Katrina victims.

Meeks, an eight-term congressman, has a penchant for hobnobbing with shady characters and had few qualms about accepting their cash — or doing them favors. Stanford, a flamboyant businessman from Texas who once ran a bodybuilding gym in Waco, took over the family financial business. He also started his own bank in 1985 on the island of Montserrat and later moved his operations to Antigua. Forbes ranked him as the 205th-richest American in 2008, with an estimated worth of $2.2 billion.


Gregory Meeks

Meeks’ relationship with Stanford dates back to at least 2003, when the congressman and his wife traveled to Antigua and Barbados on a junket sponsored by the Inter-American Economic Council, a Washington, DC, nonprofit backed by Stanford. It would be the first of many trips to sunny climes that Meeks and his wife, Simone-Marie, would take on the nonprofit’s dime. Meeks sits on both the House’s Financial Services and Foreign Affairs committees and belonged to the Caribbean Caucus, an informal group of lawmakers Stanford sought to woo.

“The economic development of the Caribbean, and the US Virgin Islands in particular, has been Congressman Meeks’ focus for over a decade,” Johnson, an executive in charge of government affairs at Stanford Group, wrote in an e-mail exhorting company employees to attend the July 2008 fund-raiser. Ticket prices began at $1,000 for the soirée at Stanford’s hilltop compound in St. Croix. Eighty guests dined on lobster, caviar and foie gras and sipped Cristal and Mondavi Opus 1, a Napa Valley Red that retails for $200 a bottle. An organizer of the party said the cost of the catering alone topped $25,000. But, records show, the Meeks campaign reimbursed Stanford for only $3,591.

In 2006, Stanford called in a chit for his generosity, asking Meeks to use his influence with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. The billionaire wanted Meeks to tell Chavez to begin a criminal investigation into a whistleblower at Stanford’s Venezuelan bank. Meeks allegedly was heard on a speakerphone telling Stanford he would intervene with Chavez, according to the Miami Herald. Meeks was soon in Venezuela visiting Chavez, ostensibly to thank him for providing cheap home heating oil to Americans. A year later, the whistleblower was arrested.

While Meeks was meeting with Chavez, there were already grave concerns among US government officials about Stanford’s reputation. The US ambassador to Barbados attended a “Legends of Cricket” breakfast along with Stanford in Bridgetown and tried to avoid being photographed in public with him. “His companies are rumored to engage in bribery, money-laundering and political manipulation,” read a May 2006 diplomatic cable about the breakfast meeting, released last month by WikiLeaks. When Stanford was knighted in Antigua in 2006, the title was so controversial that the country’s Prime Minister called the honor “most unfortunate.”


Allen Stanford

Stanford was indicted in June 2009 on charges of perpetrating a $7 billion fraud by selling certificates of deposit that promised inflated rates of return. He is currently being held at a medical center in the feds’ Butner, NC, prison, the same lockup holding Ponzi king Bernie Madoff. Stanford was declared incompetent to stand trial in January because of an addiction to prescription medication, but he is expected to be re-evaluated. Meeks refused to answer any questions about his relationship with Stanford, or why he agreed to introduce Ahmad to the billionaire. Both men have an interest in cricket. Stanford owned a cricket team and stadium, and Ahmad sponsored his own cricket competition in New York.

Meeks and Ahmad are longtime friends. The congressman held after-hours meetings with the real-estate broker at his Queens district office, and Ahmad boasted that he had his own personal political representation. Meeks claims the $40,000 he pocketed from Ahmad was a loan, but a House ethics panel said it appeared to be a gift. Meeks paid back the money in 2010, but only after federal investigators questioned Ahmad about it. Like Stanford, Ahmad’s businesses were long dogged by allegations of scandal, including predatory lending and forged documentation. State authorities launched five probes into his real-estate operations between 2006 and 2008. Ahmad, who is currently out on $2.5 million bail and prohibited from traveling to his native Guyana, faces up to 30 years in prison. The government has said that additional charges or more defendants are likely in his case.

Source

Ow edul ow this thing getting worse edul, what we are gonna do edul.