caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

.

Nothing. Jagan in his early political was more Marxist than Burnham so he would have taken the country down the same failed path as Cuba. I doubt that Jagan would have been as brutal as Burnham..

Cheddi mightn't have been as brutal, but Janet surely would have. She was a paranoid woman, who sought total control.  She would have done to Guyanese exactly what Castro did to Cubans.  For the same reason. To maintain TOTAL power!

In retrospect the biggest mistake that Guyanese of both races made was letting race cloud our judgment.  With all of his warts Peter D'Aguiar would have been the least bad option, but "blackman and coolie said that he was a potagee" so we couldn't vote for him.

What is obvious is that a Cheddi victory in 1964 would have carried Guyana down the same road as Forbes Burnham, because I have NEVER seen a Marxist Leninist regime which wasn't oppressive.

Two things. No one can really say that Cheddie would have been as brutal. From what we know of him, his persona was not hawkish.

Secondly, I do agree with you that race voting in Guyana serves no progressive purpose. That is why Guyana has struggled to get to a higher level.

caribny posted:

We are talking about who controlled the police and the army.  I have proven that it was the PPP, and it is therefore irrelevant as to who ordinary soldiers and cops voted for.

Correction. You were asking why Jagdeo failed to convert these PNC supporters in the GPF and GDF into PPP ones.

Now please answer why only Africans join these forces? Are Indians too unpatriotic to do so?  And please don't tell me that Jagdeo, who ALWAYS got what he wanted, was too weak to ensure inclusion of his support base, if that is what he wanted.

I don't think it has anything to do with patriotic or not. If that was the case, why do so many Guyanese including you are here instead of there building, supporting and defending Guyana?

And what opportunities did the PPP provide to PNC supporters?  The projects in PNC strongholds were awarded to PPP contractors, who hired PPP supporters.  So don't even babble about that.  In Linden, Buxton, and many other locations, people showed up looking for work on these projects, and were told "is not Burnham time now".

They gave them opportunities by not retrenching them and replacing them with PPP supporters. Do you remember how Burnham retrenched a bunch of CCWU workers who striked in 1978 (or 1979)? They were laid off because they opposed the PNC.

Nehru posted:

Kacz, One of the subject taught at Sophia is "Bera Nancy Story"

Sophia was a bad bad place back then. We had to go plant the garden during our school hours. Wonder if that is what Roopnarine had in mind when he suggested limiting CXC to only 8 subjects.

Hmm, sounds like a pedophile who got what he deserved. Oh well!

ksazma posted:

.

Two things. No one can really say that Cheddie would have been as brutal. From what we know of him, his persona was not hawkish.

Secondly, I do agree with you that race voting in Guyana serves no progressive purpose. That is why Guyana has struggled to get to a higher level.

Are you seriously telling me that Janet wasn't a hawk?

Listen.  Janet ran the PPP gov't in the 60s, not Cheddi. Janet was a vicious and vindictive woman.

We don't know about rumors that Janet had an affair with Burnham, (seawall rendezvous).  And that she was anxious when she became pregnant with Joey.  Knowing that if Burnham was the father, this couldn't be hidden, for obvious reasons.

But the basis of the rumors are that the public saw Cheddi as a hen pecked man.  And that Janet, and Burnham, two alpha personalities, having the hots for each other, was quite likely.

Please name a Marxist Leninist regime which wasn't brutal and oppressive.

ksazma posted:

caribny posted:

We are talking about who controlled the police and the army.  I have proven that it was the PPP, and it is therefore irrelevant as to who ordinary soldiers and cops voted for.

Correction. You were asking why Jagdeo failed to convert these PNC supporters in the GPF and GDF into PPP ones.

Now please answer why only Africans join these forces? Are Indians too unpatriotic to do so?  And please don't tell me that Jagdeo, who ALWAYS got what he wanted, was too weak to ensure inclusion of his support base, if that is what he wanted.

I don't think it has anything to do with patriotic or not. If that was the case, why do so many Guyanese including you are here instead of there building, supporting and defending Guyana?

And what opportunities did the PPP provide to PNC supporters?  The projects in PNC strongholds were awarded to PPP contractors, who hired PPP supporters.  So don't even babble about that.  In Linden, Buxton, and many other locations, people showed up looking for work on these projects, and were told "is not Burnham time now".

They gave them opportunities by not retrenching them and replacing them with PPP supporters. Do you remember how Burnham retrenched a bunch of CCWU workers who striked in 1978 (or 1979)? They were laid off because they opposed the PNC.

 

1.  I was NOT asking why Jagdeo didn't convert black soldiers into PPP supporters.  I was asking why he couldn't get PPP supporters to join.

2.  The PPP replaced blacks with Indians for the jobs that Indians wanted.  The blacks who weren't retrenched were those with the starvation wages. 

3. The thesis behind the "PNC controlled GDF/GPF" lies in the ethnic domination in these forces by blacks.  So why all the screaming by Indians, when they refused to join these entities, during the PPP 23 years. 

It appears to me as if Indians wanted to ensure that there was ethnic balance, so that perceptions of bias were removed, then they would join.  But they didn't. Why? 

Don't disgrace yourself by claiming that Jagdeo couldn't ensure that there was ethnic balance, if this is what he really wanted.  He used a criminal to create a contract killing force, and interestingly enough, most were blacks!

Even Juan Edghill reported that the Indians joining the public sector were in the upper tier, where there was a decline in Africans.  And that Africans were concentrated in the lower, and lower mid tier positions.

When Jagdeo came in, their trick was not to appoint blacks, but to keep them in acting positions, this hurting their pension.   The other trick was to force out blacks, who had upper tier positions, when they reached 55.  The replacement was always an Indian.

The PPP had a government where the decision makers were Indians, who intimidated the blacks to do as they were told........or else!

In addition you do know that the mere size of the civil service means that the vast majority of Africans aren't employed in this sector.

Looks like the teens are being investigated for other crimes.

GRANGER IS A FRIGGIN DISGRACE FOR A HEAD OF STATE. HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF RUNNING A BLOODY CAKE SHOP!!!!!!!!

Nehru posted:

GRANGER IS A FRIGGIN DISGRACE FOR A HEAD OF STATE. HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF RUNNING A BLOODY CAKE SHOP!!!!!!!!

He is doing a better job than Jagdeo and Ramotar. The police have caught more suspects of major crimes in the last year than were caught during any single election period of the PPP. Granger fought off Venezuela from seizing Essequibo with his bare hands. Jagdeo was begging Maduro to just take it.

alena06 posted:

Hmm, sounds like a pedophile who got what he deserved. Oh well!

Not nice, he was my Professor of Political Science. What the man suppose to do with hie many Pension and Social Security money when his wife gone shopping in the US?

caribny posted:

We don't know about rumors that Janet had an affair with Burnham, (seawall rendezvous).  And that she was anxious when she became pregnant with Joey.  Knowing that if Burnham was the father, this couldn't be hidden, for obvious reasons.

But the basis of the rumors are that the public saw Cheddi as a hen pecked man.  And that Janet, and Burnham, two alpha personalities, having the hots for each other, was quite likely.

What does any of this have to do with me stating that Cheddie may not have been brutal as Burnham? Unless it is mischievous.

ksazma posted:

 

What does any of this have to do with me stating that Cheddie may not have been brutal as Burnham? Unless it is mischievous.

Its says that Cheddi was irrelevant in the matter, because he couldn't even control his wife.  SHE was the boss.  Even his son Joey spoke kindly of his Godfather, when he encountered PPP stupidness.  Maybe he wished that Fatboy was his father, instead of the hen pecked man.

So your question should have been whether Janet was capable of being a brute, and the answer is YES.  Just like any Soviet Stalinist female!

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

What does any of this have to do with me stating that Cheddie may not have been brutal as Burnham? Unless it is mischievous.

Its says that Cheddi was irrelevant in the matter, because he couldn't even control his wife.  SHE was the boss.  Even his son Joey spoke kindly of his Godfather, when he encountered PPP stupidness.  Maybe he wished that Fatboy was his father, instead of the hen pecked man.

So your question should have been whether Janet was capable of being a brute, and the answer is YES.  Just like any Soviet Stalinist female!

My question was perfectly placed. I don't make unsubstantiated conclusions like you do. Regarding Joey, he is an enemy even unto himself. I have never met someone more ungrateful than he is in the manner that he berated his own mother.

ksazma posted:

 

My question was perfectly placed.

So why don't you name a Marxist Leninist country that isn't oppressive? I can assure you what ever Burnham did, Castro and Maduro does the same. 

In fact under a Janet Jagan dictatorship Guyanese wouldn't have been leaving on BWee, and GAC, as we did with Burnham.  They would have been swimming across electric eel, and caiman infested waters to Brazil.  Because that is what Castro did to his people, forcing them into shark infested waters.

I recall the Mirror condemning the US invasion of Vietnam, and praising the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.  Why one was bad, and the other good just showed how far into communism the Jagans were.

The Catholic Standard was the paper that we used to get news of Guyana, until Stabroek News arrived.  Radio Antilles, which was then located in Montserrat, but was heard in Guyana, was another news source.

The Mirror was as garbage then as it is now.  Just filled with screams of the "heroic USSR".

So if you thought that communist Vietnam, Cuba, the USSR, and Soviet controlled Eastern Europe were fabulous places, then you would think that a Cheddi controlled Guyana would have been nice.

caribny posted:

So why don't you name a Marxist Leninist country that isn't oppressive? I can assure you what ever Burnham did, Castro and Maduro does the same. 

In fact under a Janet Jagan dictatorship Guyanese wouldn't have been leaving on BWee, and GAC, as we did with Burnham.  They would have been swimming across electric eel, and caiman infested waters to Brazil.  Because that is what Castro did to his people, forcing them into shark infested waters.

I recall the Mirror condemning the US invasion of Vietnam, and praising the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.  Why one was bad, and the other good just showed how far into communism the Jagans were.

The Catholic Standard was the paper that we used to get news of Guyana, until Stabroek News arrived.  Radio Antilles, which was then located in Montserrat, but was heard in Guyana, was another news source.

The Mirror was as garbage then as it is now.  Just filled with screams of the "heroic USSR".

So if you thought that communist Vietnam, Cuba, the USSR, and Soviet controlled Eastern Europe were fabulous places, then you would think that a Cheddi controlled Guyana would have been nice.

All you are doing is making wild assumptions. All because Burnham didn't have the decency to allow fair elections to give Jagan the chance to prove you right. Unfortunately for you, Burnham's wickedness left you with only wild assumptions.

Killing of retired professor…Does 17-year-old girl know of another murder?

The 17-year-old girl, who was among five teenagers detained on Thursday for the murder of 75-year-old retired professor, Pairadeau Mars at his Lot 395 Bissessar Street, Prashad Nagar home, might have knowledge of another murder.
Armed with this information, investigators are reportedly preparing to question the teen further, a source close to the teen alleged yesterday.
As of now, investigators are reportedly comparing her finger prints, and those of her friends, with prints found at previous crime scenes.
This newspaper was told that ranks received information that on the day Mars was slain, the 17-year-old girl made statements to the other youths, which suggested that she might have knowledge of another killing.
Detectives believe that if the teen was indeed involved in a previous murder then it might have involved an elderly person, or an individual who lived alone.
There have been numerous unsolved murders of elderly persons, particularly ‘home alone’ women.
But the 17-year-old’s mother said that she is convinced that her daughter was not involved in any other case, other than the one with Mars.

Pairadeau Mars

The woman said that her daughter was ‘a good child’, but peer pressure got the best of her and this is what pushed her to do what she did last Thursday.
“I am sure my daughter never murdered anyone before. They are all in the problem so they will try to pin this on my daughter but this is not true,” the woman said.
The 17-year-old girl and her 15-year-old friend along with three males between ages 15 and 18, were arrested on Thursday, hours after the gagged and bound body of Mars was discovered.
They have subsequently confessed to going to the professor’s home to rob him.
The teenagers claimed that they were invited into the home by Mars after which they invited their male friends to rob the professor.
While they alleged that they never planned on killing the professor, the police do not believe this part of their story.
Detectives have recovered several items that the young killers had carted off from their victim’s home.
They are likely to be charged on Tuesday.

I am glad that this gang got caught so quickly. The mother should be ashamed of speaking so well of her murderous daughter. What kind of family value do these people uphold. Did the daughter shared the spoils with her mother?

Why would a 70 year old intellectual man invite teenagers to his house in the first place. It is not like they will be discussing Plato's understanding of democracy in the context of pre and post colonialism.

I don't have any problem with any man wanting patacake as long as it is consensual. The problem here is that these two girls were minors and as a 75 years old professor he should have known that.

ksazma posted:

 

All you are doing is making wild assumptions. All because Burnham didn't have the decency to allow fair elections to give Jagan the chance to prove you right. Unfortunately for you, Burnham's wickedness left you with only wild assumptions.

Believe as you wish, as you must support your fellow Indians. 

So, even as you cannot name any benign Marxist Leninist states, you pretend that a Janet Jagan regime would have been nice.

Please name one Marxist Leninist nation, which wasn't oppressive. If you cannot then the question is answered.

Because make no bones about this.  Guyana would have joined Cuba as a communist nation, and would have follow lock step.  The Jagans NEVER disobeyed the instructions received from Moscow. 

We know this because the Jagans gave "constructive" support to Burnham, when he proceeded to toss out foreign owned companies, and harassed the private sector.  They were overjoyed when Burnham allowed Cuban planes to land, en-route to Africa. And when they were told to form a National Unity gov't with Burnham, and accept a 2nd fiddle position, they enthusiastically complied.

The Jagans did as they were told, and G/T would have been another Havana!  The Guyanese would have become experts at swimming over to Brazil, or tying tires together to get to Suriname.

BTW, unless you can find a Marxist regime that allowed elections, the PPP wouldn't even have bothered to rig, after 1964.

The People, as represented by the Party, would have made all the decision, with elections being mere "neo liberal" nonsense.  As you can see, its a major inconvenience for MadBurro, and indeed for Jagdeo, who now must sit in the opposition benches.

Havana has been a far better place to visit in than GT. Just ask the tourists.

Mr.T posted:

Havana has been a far better place to visit in than GT. Just ask the tourists.

Right. Ask the tourists.  Cubans who live there will say something very different.

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

All you are doing is making wild assumptions. All because Burnham didn't have the decency to allow fair elections to give Jagan the chance to prove you right. Unfortunately for you, Burnham's wickedness left you with only wild assumptions.

Believe as you wish, as you must support your fellow Indians. 

 

I don't need to believe anything bai. I relate actuality. You on the other hand are just making up make believe to abet your argument. You have woulda, coulda, shoulda while I have actuality.

ksazma posted:

. I relate actuality.

Yes the "reality" that a Marxist Leninist state will allow representative democracy!  The only reason why you will have that conclusion is that you are Indian, as is the PPP.  

I notice that you never told us which Marxist Leninist nation was warm, and cuddly, and allowed free and fair elections, that might have led to their loss of power.

THAT is the reality.  Janet was an ogress, and the older folks who suffered under her in the 60s can tell you all about this.  I remember that period as one of anger.  NOT at Cheddi, but at Janet.

There is no woulda shoulda that a Marxist regime was going to be brutal. 

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

Havana has been a far better place to visit in than GT. Just ask the tourists.

Right. Ask the tourists.  Cubans who live there will say something very different.

I don't know any Cubans that  have visited GT. But I doubt it very much that any of them would agree with you.

caribny posted:

ksazma posted:

. I relate actuality.

Yes the "reality" that a Marxist Leninist state will allow representative democracy!  The only reason why you will have that conclusion is that you are Indian, as is the PPP.  

I notice that you never told us which Marxist Leninist nation was warm, and cuddly, and allowed free and fair elections, that might have led to their loss of power.

THAT is the reality.  Janet was an ogress, and the older folks who suffered under her in the 60s can tell you all about this.  I remember that period as one of anger.  NOT at Cheddi, but at Janet.

There is no woulda shoulda that a Marxist regime was going to be brutal. 

You are still clutching at straws because although there are still Communist governments today, yet Cheddie in the early 90s and Janet in the late ones did not take Guyana back there. They had the chance but did not rule in a brutal way as Burnham. What other countries do is irrelevant since other countries are still brutal today.

Prashad posted:

Why would a 70 year old intellectual man invite teenagers to his house in the first place. It is not like they will be discussing Plato's understanding of democracy in the context of pre and post colonialism.

 

....when his wife is out of town. Lawlessness and utter stupidity. At that age you'd think he'd not allow himself to be ruled from down south. These little girls have fat eye. He was the architect of his own demise.

Murder of retired professor…Girls, 17 and 15, among five youths for court today

– PM confirms victim was beaten, manually strangled

Two girls, aged 17 and 15, are among five teens who will appear in court today to be charged with the murder

Murdered professor: Pairadeau Mars

of 75-year-old retired professor Pairadeau Mars, who was bound, beaten and strangled last Thursday in his home. They are also likely to be charged with robbery.
Mars, a remigrant from the United States, was found slumped in a chair in the study of his Lot 395 Bissessar Street, Prashad Nagar home at around 19.00 hrs when his wife returned from a trip to Linden. His hands and feet were bound together with duct-tape, while duct-tape was also wrapped around his mouth.
A post mortem performed yesterday revealed that death was due to manual strangulation, compounded by multiple fractures to the head and face.
In custody last night were two girls, aged 17 and 15, and three young men, aged between 15 and 18. Police also detained a sixth individual who was allegedly found with an item that the alleged killers had stolen from Mars’ home.
Police recovered a laptop computer, a mobile phone, an Xbox play station and $20,000 in local currency after arresting the youths.
The teens have reportedly all admitted to robbing Mars, but also claimed that they had not planned to kill him.
The 17-year-old girl was known to Professor Mars, since she had previously lived a few doors away from the victim. She is also said to have been a frequent visitor to the home where the remigrant and his wife lived. He is said to have often given her small sums of money.
The teen has reportedly told police that after receiving a text message from Mars, she contacted her 16-year-old boyfriend and told him that the elderly man would be alone at home, and they could rob him. The boyfriend reportedly then contacted some of his friends, who became involved in the plot.
Shortly after 14.00 hrs on Thursday, the 17-year-old and a 15-year-old girl went to Mr. Mars’ residence and were invited in.
While the girls were in his study, the elder girl, who had left the front door open, reportedly texted her 17-year-old boyfriend and his associates and told them to enter the house.
The other youths reportedly then entered the study and bound Mr. Mars with duct tape. According to a statement given by the 17-year-old, the retired professor told the teens to take whatever they wanted, but to spare his life.
Instead, some of the youths gagged the elderly man, then beat and strangled him.
They then gathered up a laptop, play-station, cell phone and $25,000 and other items. After putting the items in suitcases they stopped a passing taxi, which took them to ‘C’ Field, Sophia.
Mr. Mars’ wife, Joan Mars, who was in Linden, spoke to her husband by phone at around 14.00 hrs. She failed to contact him after that. At around 19.00 hrs, the woman arrived home and found the front door open. She then entered the study and found her husband’s body.
Police were able to crack the case within hours after receiving a description of the 17-year-old girl. The alleged killers were also seen leaving the scene with suitcases and entering a car

It looks like his wife is also a retired Professor.

Prashad posted:

Why would a 70 year old intellectual man invite teenagers to his house in the first place. It is not like they will be discussing Plato's understanding of democracy in the context of pre and post colonialism.

 

For some Punani.  Wait a man cant try to get a lil Punani anymore??????????????????????

If you have stake at home then you don't need hamburger unless you are a glutton.

My deepest sympathy to the guy's wife and family.  Imagine how embarrassing how all this is to them.  May God grant them the dignity and grace to deal with this.

Prashad posted:

If you have stake at home then you don't need hamburger unless you are a glutton.

HIS WIFE WENT TO NY SHOPPING, WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSE TO DO?

Lennox posted:

My deepest sympathy to the guy's wife and family.  Imagine how embarrassing how all this is to them.  May God grant them the dignity and grace to deal with this.

These is no need for them to be ashamed. Mr Mars was a special person.

Mr.T posted:

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

Havana has been a far better place to visit in than GT. Just ask the tourists.

Right. Ask the tourists.  Cubans who live there will say something very different.

I don't know any Cubans that  have visited GT. But I doubt it very much that any of them would agree with you.

Millions of Cubans in Cuba will describe life there as a living hell, and are looking forward to increasing economic contacts with the USA, and the dismantling of doctrinaire Marxist Leninism.

Face it, if there was a free and fair election in Cuba, your hero Fidel would LOSE!

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

Havana has been a far better place to visit in than GT. Just ask the tourists.

Right. Ask the tourists.  Cubans who live there will say something very different.

I don't know any Cubans that  have visited GT. But I doubt it very much that any of them would agree with you.

Millions of Cubans in Cuba will describe life there as a living hell, and are looking forward to increasing economic contacts with the USA, and the dismantling of doctrinaire Marxist Leninism.

Face it, if there was a free and fair election in Cuba, your hero Fidel would LOSE!

Chances of returning to our adoptive homes alive has always been higher when visiting Cuba as it is visiting Guyana.

caribny posted

Millions of Cubans in Cuba will describe life there as a living hell, and are looking forward to increasing economic contacts with the USA, and the dismantling of doctrinaire Marxist Leninism.

Face it, if there was a free and fair election in Cuba, your hero Fidel would LOSE!

There you go proving my point. While this is still happening not so far from Guyana and in one of Guyana's traditional friend's country, both Cheddie and Janet while Presidents of Guyana did not chose the route of Burnham. Guyana truly became a free trade economy under their governance. And just in case you argue that they had to appease the West that helped them win the 1992 elections, consider that Burnham with his brutishness did not see any value in repaying the CIA for their help during 1963 with any loyalty. Instead he began to move Guyana towards a dictatorship and thankfully the angel of death chose to side with the Guyanese people. So it is and will forever be Burnham's sins that overcast Guyana.  

5 teenagers slapped with murder charge

it was complete mayhem in the compound of the Georgetown Magistrates’ Courts when the five teenagers charged with brutally murdering retired University Professor Perry Mars made their entrance.

The teens – two females and three males – hid their faces while being escorted to court under the watchful eyes of nearly a dozen Police Officers.

A number of persons flocked the court compound to get a glimpse of the teenagers.

Meanwhile, Police Officers barred members of the media from standing on the court steps to take photographs and they were also not allowed to enter the courtroom to witness the in-camera proceedings.

The five teens were not required to plead to the indictable charge of murder. The 15-year-old teenage girl involved in the incident was charged as a juvenile, while the others were charged as adults. They were all

The female suspects being escorted by Police Officers

remanded to prison.

Mars, of Bissessar Avenue, Prashad Nagar, Greater Georgetown, was found bound and beaten in his home about 18:30h on Thursday by his wife. He was rushed to a hospital where he later succumbed.

The alleged teen murderers were all arrested on Friday last as persons in the area identified them as the persons who were seen leaving Mars’ yard with suitcases and bags filled with valuables.

The stolen items were said to have been recovered in the homes of the teens in Sophia and Campbellville.

They are expected to make their next court appearance on June 14.

cain posted:

.

Chances of returning to our adoptive homes alive has always been higher when visiting Cuba as it is visiting Guyana.

Cuba is the most militarized nation in the world. So why the shock that crime is low.

Remove all of those spies looking to harass any Cuban who says that Castro is a dog, and you will be shocked about how quickly crime will spike. 

Havana has ghettoes, and levels of unemployment, and frustration very much equivalent to those of G/T.  And as Cuba's new rich arrogantly flaunt their wealth the anger will surge.  The young elites behave as if they are in Miami Beach.  Even as many in Havana live in sewerage and collapsing buildings.