Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Corbin is a has been who was once a Jagdeo stooge. The only strings he could be pulling for Granger is if the President wants him to tie his shoe laces. He’s given a job as an advisor to compensate for his long service to the party. Harmon wields a lot more power than Corbin and Green. 

That Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge is just your narrative. Prove it. 

Is that your retort for every post here? Show proof? Show your proof first that Corbin is pulling Granger’s strings or hush up.

It's a sad day when we are still celebrating a hollow PPP victory less than 28% turned out and I would suggest that's mostly from the PNC supporters apathy, and apathy in general the AFC have been naive and foolish, people voted for them as a sign of change and yet they towed the PNC line hook line and sinker the exact opposite of what they should have done now they're finished .

Come election time the two said parties who have left us in a social and economic mess since independence will win . With visionless geriatrics on one side and a man who can't run but thinks he's the king without a crown still pulling the strings it's nothing to celebrate .

There is clear room for a 3rd party to hold the balance but that will not be AFC after this showing but they'll need to get moving and if the PNC has any smarts they'd advise Granger to step down (long term health ) and let Volda run 

Volda eh?/ I say Chase Green for President

Ray posted:

PNC better start giving away free stuff to Indos and mixed races if they want win....otherwise they cak duck

Giving away stuff to older Indos is a waste.  They aren't going to get their vote.

I suspect that you think that most "mixed" people are obvious douglas.  It would shock you that most aren't.  Take a look at Raphael Trotman and you will see many of these people. Mark Benschop is another one.  These men both operate within Afro Guyanese cultural and social contexts.

The PNC has to mobilize the youth vote without regard to race and to the black (inclusive of mixed identified) voters if they plan to win. 

Of course if the PNC can rise about racial patronage so much the better but I think that its now too late for that.

Zed posted:

Question - if an Afro Guyanese vote for an AfroGuyanese person or party  and an Indo- Guyanese votes for for an Indo-Guyanese person or party, who are we to say that it is not in their interest to do so? Do they have a democratic right to vote for who they wish to represent them? 

They do have a democratic right to do this, but seriously how has this blind ethnic patronage worked out for them? 

Do you really think that the PPP and the PNC are interested in more than tokenism, given that entrenched attitudes aren't going to move votes as the distrust is now 4, maybe 5 generations deep?

The AFC had promise when they came in the scene in 2005 but they proved to be ineffective and were never really able to develop their own base.  They remained a protest vote. 

In 2006 GT and New Amsterdam middle class blacks and mixed people voted for them when they were frustrated with Corbin.  In 2011 they got a Berbice vote as Nagamootoo brought in some PPP supporters, together with some of their 2006 supporters.  In 2015 they got a largely cross ethnic urban base of people who naively thought that the days of ethnic patronage were over.

AFC Indos in Berbice ran back to the PPP in 2015 and its clear that AFC Indos in GT just ran back in this past election as the AFC exposed its weakness.   I am not sure where the urban middle class blacks/mixed who supported the AFC in times past have gone to.

It will be interesting to get an age demographic as to who voted.  I bet its the hard core middle aged and elderly loyalists on both sides.

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Corbin is a has been who was once a Jagdeo stooge. The only strings he could be pulling for Granger is if the President wants him to tie his shoe laces. He’s given a job as an advisor to compensate for his long service to the party. Harmon wields a lot more power than Corbin and Green. 

That Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge is just your narrative. Prove it. 

Is that your retort for every post here? Show proof? Show your proof first that Corbin is pulling Granger’s strings or hush up.

 

Release reread and UNDERSTAND my original post.

Mitwah posted:

Overall the people did not vote for candidates who can or will represent their best interests. The vote was along racial lines. Jagdeo shouda run for the Mayoral position in GT.

He would never be that stupid.  Losing to some APNU nonentity (the current mayor) isn't to his liking.  The PPP got only 25% of the GT vote, this they try to hide with their fake news screams.  Most of the councilors are APNU and they would sooner vote for a dog than for Jagdeo.

Dave posted:

 

The coolie in Guyana see Jagdeo as their saviour, they don’t need you.

. 

Even if the PPP wins in 2020 (quite likely given that PNC supporters are even angrier with Granger than they were with Corbin) with Indians now falling to under 40% of the adult population how will they govern Guyana if others feel excluded?  And increasingly these "restless" will be outside of the PNC control.

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Corbin is a has been who was once a Jagdeo stooge. The only strings he could be pulling for Granger is if the President wants him to tie his shoe laces. He’s given a job as an advisor to compensate for his long service to the party. Harmon wields a lot more power than Corbin and Green. 

That Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge is just your narrative. Prove it. 

When it appeared as if elements of the PNC wanted to dump Corbin Jagdeo began to wail that they shouldn't.

Now why would Jagdeo care about Corbin remaining in charge of the PNC unless he felt that he had some control over him?  The narrative of Corbin being Jagdeo's stooge explains the poor performance of the PNC in 2006 when many grass roots blacks stayed home and the more elite jumped to the AFC.

Unless the PNC does something different I expect 2020 to be a repeat performance.  It will be interesting to see how the PNC elites behave if they fear being reduced to powerless and impoverished peons as they were during the PPP rule.  This after tasting the largesse that comes with power.

Mo Fiah Slo Fiah if PPP wins, right?? Hard core deh right here not the older Guyanese!!!!

The election done the results are in? The people in Guyana made their choice you in NA move on with your boring life stop looking for excitement  on the poor souls in Guyana. Get a life.

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Corbin is a has been who was once a Jagdeo stooge. The only strings he could be pulling for Granger is if the President wants him to tie his shoe laces. He’s given a job as an advisor to compensate for his long service to the party. Harmon wields a lot more power than Corbin and Green. 

That Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge is just your narrative. Prove it. 

Is that your retort for every post here? Show proof? Show your proof first that Corbin is pulling Granger’s strings or hush up.

 

Release reread and UNDERSTAND my original post.

Apparently, you think that anyone who has opinions contrary to yours, should “show proof” to support those opinions. You always require proof or evidence. Well, let’s see if you can live up to the standards that you demand of others or you’re just another hypocrite blowing hot air.

Show proof that Granger is Corbin’s puppet as you stated previously.

A small elite has been the main beneficiaries of the ethnic voting under both the PNC and POP. The racial divide has been used to bring the masses into the scene, but they generally are window dressing.

from what I hear here, it seems as if the AFC cannot redeem themselves. Very few now trust any attempt at a third alternative to the two major parties. 

The PPP should be worried because of the low turnout, they have been stressing the importance of the LGE to their supporters. But they have not turned out in huge numbers. Many PNC supporters seem disenchanted with the broken promises of the coalition and have decided to stay home instead if voting aagainst the PNC. Interesting time ahead, we will get a clearer picture as time goes by.

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Corbin is a has been who was once a Jagdeo stooge. The only strings he could be pulling for Granger is if the President wants him to tie his shoe laces. He’s given a job as an advisor to compensate for his long service to the party. Harmon wields a lot more power than Corbin and Green. 

That Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge is just your narrative. Prove it. 

Is that your retort for every post here? Show proof? Show your proof first that Corbin is pulling Granger’s strings or hush up.

 

Release reread and UNDERSTAND my original post.

Apparently, you think that anyone who has opinions contrary to yours, should “show proof” to support those opinions. You always require proof or evidence. Well, let’s see if you can live up to the standards that you demand of others or you’re just another hypocrite blowing hot air.

Show proof that Granger is Corbin’s puppet as you stated previously.

Please reread and UNDERsTAND my original comment!!

Zed posted:

 Interesting time ahead, we will get a clearer picture as time goes by.

A lot will depend on how the PNC responds to being snubbed by its base.  Losing to the PPP in the Buxton/Foulis area should be a warning as to what happens when its base stays home.  I am not sure what the ethnic composition of this NDC is.  If its more than just Buxton then there may be more Indians than people might think.

Zed posted:

Please reread and UNDERsTAND my original comment!!

I understand exactly what you said.

You demanded proof and evidence from posters here many times. The one time that you're asked to live up to the demands you made of others, you can't even provide a smidgen of proof. Reeks of hypocrisy to me.

caribny posted:. 

Even if the PPP wins in 2020 (quite likely given that PNC supporters are even angrier with Granger than they were with Corbin) with Indians now falling to under 40% of the adult population how will they govern Guyana if others feel excluded?  And increasingly these "restless" will be outside of the PNC control.

simply not true . . . about Granger/Corbin that is

further . . . your last sentence feeds into recent PPP ahistoricism of a banal but particularly malignant type

not sure what these kinds of ‘threats’ are supposed to achieve

ronan posted:

caribny posted:

Dave posted:

 

The coolie in Guyana see Jagdeo as their saviour, they don’t need you.

. 

Even if the PPP wins in 2020 (quite likely given that PNC supporters are even angrier with Granger than they were with Corbin) with Indians now falling to under 40% of the adult population how will they govern Guyana if others feel excluded?  And increasingly these "restless" will be outside of the PNC control.

simply not true . . . about Corbin that is

further . . . your last sentence is feeding recent PPP ahistoricism of a banal and malignant type

not sure what these kinds of ‘threats’ are supposed to achieve

It is a known fact that if a restive population doesn't feel represented by the system then other methods are available.  The election of Trump is an example.  He has hijacked the GOP and created a major problem globally.

So maybe some Guyanese rabble rouser might stir up the disaffected as Trump did in the USA, Bolsonaro in Brazil and Le Pen almost did in France.  I don't know that anyone wants this.  Fed up with the PNC and hostile to the PPP who knows what might happen.  I do know that a large and alienated segment of the population bodes ill for any society.

The disaffection of the PNC base with Corbin is a fact and the evidence is its dismal performance in 2006.   The results are there for you to see.  Compare the PNC performance in 2001, 2006 and 2011.  It is quite clear that something bad for the PNC occurred in 2006.

Also compare voter turnout in Region 10 in 2001, 2006 and 2010.  %Region 10 is the most thoroughly PNC dominated area so offers a clearer perspective of how the PNC grass roots feel about the party.

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

caribny posted:

Dave posted:

 

The coolie in Guyana see Jagdeo as their saviour, they don’t need you.

. 

Even if the PPP wins in 2020 (quite likely given that PNC supporters are even angrier with Granger than they were with Corbin) with Indians now falling to under 40% of the adult population how will they govern Guyana if others feel excluded?  And increasingly these "restless" will be outside of the PNC control.

simply not true . . . about Corbin that is

further . . . your last sentence is feeding recent PPP ahistoricism of a banal and malignant type

not sure what these kinds of ‘threats’ are supposed to achieve

It is a known fact that if a restive population doesn't feel represented by the system then other methods are available.  The election of Trump is an example.  He has hijacked the GOP and created a major problem globally.

So maybe some Guyanese rabble rouser might stir up the disaffected as Trump did in the USA, Bolsonaro in Brazil and Le Pen almost did in France.  I don't know that anyone wants this.  Fed up with the PNC and hostile to the PPP who knows what might happen.  I do know that a large and alienated segment of the population bodes ill for any society.

The disaffection of the PNC base with Corbin is a fact and the evidence is its dismal performance in 2006.   The results are there for you to see.  Compare the PNC performance in 2001, 2006 and 2011.  It is quite clear that something bad for the PNC occurred in 2006.

Also compare voter turnout in Region 10 in 2001, 2006 and 2010.  %Region 10 is the most thoroughly PNC dominated area so offers a clearer perspective of how the PNC grass roots feel about the party.

2 things:

my reference to Corbin points to the inauthenticity of your comparison to Granger . . . so you tilt at nothing

the rest of your ‘response’ is basically a bunch of random non-sequiturs

ronan posted:

.

2 things:

my reference to Corbin points to the inauthenticity of your comparison to Granger . . . so you tilt at nothing

the rest of your ‘response’ is basically a bunch of random non-sequiturs

I should think that the PPP winning Foulis-Buxton suggests that something is amiss within the PNC base.  They don't seem enthused with Granger, so many stayed home, allowing Jagdeo to grab some seats in that NDC.

Regardless as to what you might think of Granger it is clear that much of the PNC base don't think much of him.

As to the rest that you dismiss.  Yes in 2016 I warned people of the possibility of a Trump victory, given the alienation of both the white and the black working class, especially in the Midwest. Well Trump grabbed some white working class who voted for Obama in prior elections (so clearly not racists) and many of the black working class stayed home.  His win in Wisconsin and Michigan can be explained by voter collapse in Milwaukee and Detroit.

Maybe you think that Trump's win was an accident.  No it was the result of restive people tired of the usual parties, so they selected an alternate. A rabble rouser who fed on their emotional vulnerabilities.   Do not think that this scenario isn't possible in Guyana as I would urge you to look over the border at Brazil where similar problems exist.  Crime, corruption, venal political elites and a very alienated population.

But maybe you like Trump and Bolsonaro so don't think that their victories are a tragic indication of the sickness of the political systems in both countries, and the degree that a sizeable part of the electorate were so alienated that they fell for destructive rabble rousers.

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

.

2 things:

my reference to Corbin points to the inauthenticity of your comparison to Granger . . . so you tilt at nothing

the rest of your ‘response’ is basically a bunch of random non-sequiturs

I should think that the PPP winning Foulis-Buxton suggests that something is amiss within the PNC base.  They don't seem enthused with Granger, so many stayed home, allowing Jagdeo to grab some seats in that NDC.

Regardless as to what you might think of Granger it is clear that much of the PNC base don't think much of him.

As to the rest that you dismiss.  Yes in 2016 I warned people of the possibility of a Trump victory, given the alienation of both the white and the black working class, especially in the Midwest. Well Trump grabbed some white working class who voted for Obama in prior elections (so clearly not racists) and many of the black working class stayed home.  His win in Wisconsin and Michigan can be explained by voter collapse in Milwaukee and Detroit.

Maybe you think that Trump's win was an accident.  No it was the result of restive people tired of the usual parties, so they selected an alternate. A rabble rouser who fed on their emotional vulnerabilities.   Do not think that this scenario isn't possible in Guyana as I would urge you to look over the border at Brazil where similar problems exist.  Crime, corruption, venal political elites and a very alienated population.

But maybe you like Trump and Bolsonaro so don't think that their victories are a tragic indication of the sickness of the political systems in both countries, and the degree that a sizeable part of the electorate were so alienated that they fell for destructive rabble rousers.

your rambling all over the place about Trump and Bolsonaro does you no credit

and stop trying to peddle the crap that i am some kind of Granger fanboy

for now, it suffices to say that your predictions of Guyana Elections 2015 were waaay WRONG! . . . so much for your attempt to rewrite history

smh

ronan posted:

 

your rambling all over the place about Trump and Bolsonaro does you no credit

 

D2 said the same when I warned him that a Midwest surprise might occur.

You are entitled to your opinions and can take your time to explain why the PPP won Foulis-Buxton NDC.

ronan posted:

 

for now, it suffices to say that your predictions of Guyana Elections 2015 were waaay WRONG!

stop trying to rewrite history

And my predictions that Nagamootoo and Ramjattan would be sidelined by Granger and Trotman?  Hmmm.  It happened soon after I forecasted it and I didn't have anything to do with that.

And now we see the consequences of this.

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

your rambling all over the place about Trump and Bolsonaro does you no credit

 

D2 said the same when I warned him that a Midwest surprise might occur.

You are entitled to your opinions and can take your time to explain why the PPP won Foulis-Buxton NDC.

i am NOT the one having a discussion with you about Trump and Bolsonaro

focus banna

i make it a point to say little to nothing here about politics outside of Guyana because there is precious little “politics” on GNI . . .  it’s mostly race, racism and battyshaking

so now, Foulis-Buxton NDC was won by the PPP  . . . what on earth does that have to do with your irresponsible and reality-challenged polemic?

smh

ronan posted:

 

i am NOT the one having a discussion with you about Trump and Bolsonaro

 

The notion of a Buxton run by the PPP is a PNC nightmare and you know this.

Now why did that happen?  Answers not that different from why Trump and Bolsonaro won.

But please proceed by thinking that launching personal attacks on me diverts from these realities.  My skin is quite thick having been subjected to some of the worse insults since coming to GNI.  Sometimes under attack from the entire board.

So redirect your response to PPP Buxton and what that says about Granger and the PNC.

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

i am NOT the one having a discussion with you about Trump and Bolsonaro

 

The notion of a Buxton run by the PPP is a PNC nightmare and you know this.

Now why did that happen?  Answers not that different from why Trump and Bolsonaro won.

But please proceed by thinking that launching personal attacks on me diverts from these realities.  My skin is quite thick having been subjected to some of the worse insults since coming to GNI.  Sometimes under attack from the entire board.

So redirect your response to PPP Buxton and what that says about Granger and the PNC.

first . . . “Buxton” will not be “run by the PPP”

that the NDC was narrowly lost by APNU is political malpractice by PNC, yes

but i fail to see what exactly is this “nightmare” you yammering about  . . . drama queen much?

and please point to the “personal attacks” i “launched” on you (heretofore)

you are a LIAR sir

ronan posted:

 

first . . . “Buxton” will not be “run by the PPP”

 

OK so the PPP will win in 2020 because if they get more votes in that area than did the PNC where will the PNC find support?  Rose Hall!

But you can ignore the implications of this.

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Please reread and UNDERsTAND my original comment!!

I understand exactly what you said.

You demanded proof and evidence from posters here many times. The one time that you're asked to live up to the demands you made of others, you can't even provide a smidgen of proof. Reeks of hypocrisy to me.

 

 

Please reread and UNDERSTAND my original comment!!if you need help. Please let me know which part you do not understand!

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

first . . . “Buxton” will not be “run by the PPP”

 

OK so the PPP will win in 2020 because if they get more votes in that area than did the PNC where will the PNC find support?  Rose Hall!

But you can ignore the implications of this.

like i said. . . . drama queen

please revisit your 2015 “predictions” then tek a seat

ronan posted:

 

like i said. . . . drama queen

please revisit your 2015 “predictions” then tek a seat

In 2015 there was a belief that the AFC had a support base, that when added to that of the PNC, allowed the coalition to beat the PPP.

Now it is seen that the AFC has no base.  Please be the only person on this planet who argues that they still do.

I do remember D2 arguing with me even on election day 2016 and we all know what happened that night when Trump won.

I don't join sides so I will not blindly support those on a sinking ship.  The PNC is in serious trouble and the AFC cannot help them in 2020.  In the eyes of Guyanese the PNC is as much the Coalition gov't as it is APNU and the AFC have now been reduced to becoming the WPA.

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

like i said. . . . drama queen

please revisit your 2015 “predictions” then tek a seat

In 2015 there was a belief that the AFC had a support base, that when added to that of the PNC, allowed the coalition to beat the PPP.

Now it is seen that the AFC has no base.  Please be the only person on this planet who argues that they still do.

I do remember D2 arguing with me even on election day 2016 and we all know what happened that night when Trump won.

I don't join sides so I will not blindly support those on a sinking ship.  The PNC is in serious trouble and the AFC cannot help them in 2020.  In the eyes of Guyanese the PNC is as much the Coalition gov't as it is APNU and the AFC have now been reduced to becoming the WPA.

the coalition won in spite of wannabe Cassandras like you in 2015

remember?

that’s what i am talking about

Zed posted:

Mars posted:

Zed posted:

Please reread and UNDERsTAND my original comment!!

I understand exactly what you said.

You demanded proof and evidence from posters here many times. The one time that you're asked to live up to the demands you made of others, you can't even provide a smidgen of proof. Reeks of hypocrisy to me.

 

 

Please reread and UNDERSTAND my original comment!!if you need help. Please let me know which part you do not understand!

Come on Zed...prove it.

Like I will tell you what I have told Mars, please read and understand what I have posted in my original post. 

cain posted:

Come on Zed...prove it.

I am still waiting for him to prove his definitive statement that Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge. He is trying to divert from this request when I made no definitive statement. But only noted what was being said around in Guyana, 

Zed posted:

cain posted:

Come on Zed...prove it.

I am still waiting for him to prove his definitive statement that Corbin was Jagdeo’s stooge. He is trying to divert from this request when I made no definitive statement. But only noted what was being said around in Guyana, 

What I said was also an opinion being shared around Guyana, Knucklehead. Using your own standards, show us the proof that Granger is Corbin’s stooge. Put up or shut up.

Zed posted:

Interesting time ahead, we will get a clearer picture as time goes by.

Thank You, Captain Obvious. Like you trying to tek away D_G wuk now.

Dougla_80 posted:

It's a sad day when we are still celebrating a hollow PPP victory less than 28% turned out and I would suggest that's mostly from the PNC supporters apathy, and apathy in general the AFC have been naive and foolish, people voted for them as a sign of change and yet they towed the PNC line hook line and sinker the exact opposite of what they should have done now they're finished .

Come election time the two said parties who have left us in a social and economic mess since independence will win . With visionless geriatrics on one side and a man who can't run but thinks he's the king without a crown still pulling the strings it's nothing to celebrate .

There is clear room for a 3rd party to hold the balance but that will not be AFC after this showing but they'll need to get moving and if the PNC has any smarts they'd advise Granger to step down (long term health ) and let Volda run 

It’s a feel good factor.  Everyone seemed downtrodden, bridge get tek way, sheer shyte.  Then came LGE!!  PPP even beat dem rass in freedom fighterville, Buxton.  Even Caribj celebrating wid abie.  Crystal for glass beads!!

Now abie pon tapp again!!

Baseman posted:

  Then came LGE!!  PPP even beat dem rass in freedom fighterville, Buxton.

 

Don't run with the lie, the PPP didn't get no vote from Buxton.

See attachment of Buxton/Foulis NDC.

Django posted:

Baseman posted:

  Then came LGE!!  PPP even beat dem rass in freedom fighterville, Buxton.

 

Don't run with the lie, the PPP didn't get no vote from Buxton.

See attachment of Buxton/Foulis NDC.

LOL!! are you fo real. Stop live in denial Django. 

This shock is too much for you.. eh.