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FM
Former Member
Caracas, Venezuela; -  Guyana and Venezuela have been embroiled in a border controversy that spans itself across three centuries and across the lifetime of several heads of state.

In its simplest form, Venezuela is maintaining that the entire Essequibo, which is a geographic area that represents almost two thirds of Guyana’s land mass, belongs to them.
On the other hand, Guyana has been relying heavily on an 1899 Paris arbitration ruling which confirmed that the Essequibo region belongs to Georgetown.

However, this ruling has never found favour with the Venezuelans, who continued to mount challenges and claims that tipped the scale again in 1966 when Guyana was granted independence from Britain.

As such, there have always been repeated tit-for-tats over the Essequibo, with silent fears that at some point Caracas may lose its patience and make an attempt to take the mineral rich region by force.

http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/...n-military-invasion/

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The US instigated Venezuela in 1962 to reopen its territorial claim in order to prevent the "communist" PPP from leading an independent Guyana. Thereafter, right wing parties in Venezuela pushed their claim.

The present Chavista Maduro regime will not invade Guyana. A right wing post-Maduro regime could do so. In which case the US will not render Guyana military assistance, though it may issue statements calling for a withdrawal of Venezuelan forces.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Cobra:
The British may defend Guyans as a member of the commonwealth countries. The American may also assist the British to keep Guyana from losing their democratic status to Venezuela. The American would love to set up a military base in Guyana to kick Maduro ass.

 

You live your own world, eh chap?

 

First the American Ambassador is placed on the receiving end of a "feral blast" from that PPP/Coolie pig-dog Manickchand and then the PPP House Negro Lunchman declares the British Ambassador a "pariah" and now you expect those Governments to expend their energies against an important country like Venezuela? Especially against their pro-Western pro-American right wing?

 

Oh yea, also the PPP/Coolies just had Guyana declare in favor of Argentina's claim on the British Overseas Territory of the Falklands.

 

Them are some damn good moves I'm sure will help us out in the future when the Venezuelans commence buggering Guyana and the British and American governments pretend to hear no screams.

FM
Shaitan, America is used to taking shit from other countries when they cross a certain line. They pissed off at Guyana because a woman put them in their place. And she is my heavy weight champ. Next time she will give them mustard on a stick. Lol and still they will beg to defend Priya's Guyana. Oh, I can kiss that woman from many miles sway.
FM
Originally Posted by cain:

 

Dese PPP/Coolies seem to live in their own world. A world where Guyana can piss on America and the UK and then expect the might of the Royal Navy and boots of the U.S. Army to come crushing down on an important Western ally like Venezuela at the mere call of some hungry belly coolies at Freedom House.

 

I can only imagine how that would happen.

 

Downing Street Secretary: "Mr. Prime Minister, Guyana has just been invaded by Venezuela"

 

Cameron: "My God. Which Guyana?"

 

Secretary: "The most important of the Guyanas Sir...the one we used to own. Controlling 1 percent of the world's supply of rice and sugar."

 

Cameron: "Quick, summon the Foreign Secretary I leave at once for Buckingham Palace. Prepare an Order-in-Council for War. We are at war gentleman"

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:

The US instigated Venezuela in 1962 to reopen its territorial claim in order to prevent the "communist" PPP from leading an independent Guyana. Thereafter, right wing parties in Venezuela pushed their claim.

The present Chavista Maduro regime will not invade Guyana. A right wing post-Maduro regime could do so. In which case the US will not render Guyana military assistance, though it may issue statements calling for a withdrawal of Venezuelan forces.

 

The right was very much marginalized by Chavista. When they get back in power they will look for revenge. They might go after Essequibo to take revenge of all the left wing friends who backed Chavista. Guyana is the weakest of them all and can be easy prey.

FM

TK, this is why I believe Guyana has made an error of judgement in reiterating its support for Argentina's claim over the Falklands.

Even from an economic standpoint, Guyana's position doesn't make sense.

Britain has given a lot more aid to Guyana than Argentina has, if at all.

Like I said in another thread, the PPP regime is contradicting itself by supporting Argentina's territorial claim while opposing rightfully Venezuela's claim.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Shaitan, would you break your oath to America and defend the country of your birth, or shed blood against them? That question is like holding to your mother and your wife and don't know who to let go and who to save.

 

No. 1 Shaitaan is an American. I know where Shaitaan's roti is sardined. And that's Murica. The United States has an exclusive claim of stately allegiance upon me. The same as upon you.

 

No. 2 Even if were I so inclined to post and impress my now aged body into Guyanan service against invading Iberian hordes, I doubt my assistance along with the GDF's 300 old men and a frightened population of 600k easily cowed coolies and negroes could even put up a token resistance to one good Task Force of professional Venezuelan regulars.

 

The only thing that Guyana has on it's side is the ability and willingness of Great Powers like the US and the UK to uphold the principles of international law which make the 1899 Arbitral Award binding forever and beyond question. Those same principles of international law protect which protect and guarantee Guyanese sovereignty over the Essequibo are the very same ones which protect and guarantee British sovereignty over the Falklands. Therefore, only the duncest kind of lunatic would uphold the Argentine claim over the Falklands for the simple reason that Argentina's legal arguments are quite similar to Venezuela's.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:

TK, this is why I believe Guyana has made an error of judgement in reiterating its support for Argentina's claim over the Falklands.

Even from an economic standpoint, Guyana's position doesn't make sense.

Britain has given a lot more aid to Guyana than Argentina has, if at all.

Like I said in another thread, the PPP regime is contradicting itself by supporting Argentina's territorial claim while opposing rightfully Venezuela's claim.

I agree with Gil.  Guyana should have supported Britain or at least remain neutral on the Falklands issue.  These Latin countries in South America will always support each other.  That is why we should ask ourselves was full independence from Britain really worth it.  Or would an Anguilla or Bermuda type political situation have been better. 

 

  

FM

Cubana de AviaciΓ³n Flight 455was a Cuban flight from Barbadosto Jamaica that was brought down on October 6, 1976 by a bomb attack. All 73 people on board the Douglas DC-8 aircraft were killed. Two time bombs were used, variously described as dynamite or C-4.

Several CIA-linked anti-CastroCuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police DISIPwere implicated by the evidence. Political complications quickly arose when Cuba accused the US government of being an accomplice to the attack. CIA documents released in 2005 indicate that the agency "had concrete advance intelligence, as early as June 1976, on plans by Cuban exile terrorist groups to bomb a Cubana airliner." Former CIA terrorist operative Luis Posada Carrilesdenies involvement but provides many details of the incident in his book Caminos del Guerrero (Way of the Warrior).[1][2]

Four men were arrested in connection with the bombing, and a trial was held in Venezuela. Freddy Lugo and HernΓ‘n Ricardo Lozano were each sentenced to 20-year prison terms. Orlando Bosch was acquitted and later moved to Miami, Florida, where he lived until his death on April 27, 2011. Luis Posada Carriles was held for eight years while awaiting a final sentence but eventually fled. He later entered the United States, where he was held on charges of entering the country illegally, but was released on April 19, 2007.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Shaitan, would you break your oath to America and defend the country of your birth, or shed blood against them? That question is like holding to your mother and your wife and don't know who to let go and who to save.

 

No. 1 Shaitaan is an American. I know where Shaitaan's roti is sardined. And that's Murica. The United States has an exclusive claim of stately allegiance upon me. The same as upon you.

 

No. 2 Even if were I so inclined to post and impress my now aged body into Guyanan service against invading Iberian hordes, I doubt my assistance along with the GDF's 300 old men and a frightened population of 600k easily cowed coolies and negroes could even put up a token resistance to one good Task Force of professional Venezuelan regulars.

 

The only thing that Guyana has on it's side is the ability and willingness of Great Powers like the US and the UK to uphold the principles of international law which make the 1899 Arbitral Award binding forever and beyond question. Those same principles of international law protect which protect and guarantee Guyanese sovereignty over the Essequibo are the very same ones which protect and guarantee British sovereignty over the Falklands. Therefore, only the duncest kind of lunatic would uphold the Argentine claim over the Falklands for the simple reason that Argentina's legal arguments are quite similar to Venezuela's.

 

Brilliant!

FM
Originally Posted by Wally:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:

TK, this is why I believe Guyana has made an error of judgement in reiterating its support for Argentina's claim over the Falklands.

Even from an economic standpoint, Guyana's position doesn't make sense.

Britain has given a lot more aid to Guyana than Argentina has, if at all.

Like I said in another thread, the PPP regime is contradicting itself by supporting Argentina's territorial claim while opposing rightfully Venezuela's claim.

I agree with Gil.  Guyana should have supported Britain or at least remain neutral on the Falklands issue.  These Latin countries in South America will always support each other.  That is why we should ask ourselves was full independence from Britain really worth it.  Or would an Anguilla or Bermuda type political situation have been better. 

 

  

 

The problem Uncle Wally was Britain found Guyana to be drain on its resources and was willing to offer independence regardless. I hope this point will be made clear in my next book. The British held on a few more years mainly because they wanted to cut the communist threats facing the colony.

FM

Times have changed TK.  The world has changed.  If Britain is willing to practice racial and religious equality in Guyana and gives self government to Guyana similar to Scotland then why not seek a new relationship with them similar to Bermuda and Anguilla. The resources of Guyana  together with new technologies available to harness them can make it attractive to Britain to enter into a special partnership with Guyana. 

FM
Originally Posted by Wally:

Times have changed TK.  The world has changed.  If Britain is willing to practice racial and religious equality in Guyana and gives self government to Guyana similar to Scotland then why not seek a new relationship with them similar to Bermuda and Anguilla. The resources of Guyana  together with new technologies available to harness them can make it attractive to Britain to enter into a special partnership with Guyana. 

Guyana don't have the amount of natural resources as we like to think about. The area for agri is just about 11% of the land. Yea 11% of 83K sqmile is big for a small population. The issue is the cost it would take to develop the 8% outside of the coastal plain. Guyana's resources are its talented people, rivers, sunlight and wind. When we come down to earth and realize Guyana is not special in terms of natural endowments we would be making great strides. Funny thing is the Dutch figured that out the early1600s when they initially settled up river. They reversed course and settled on the coast by first draining the place and starting polder agriculture. The Dutch figured that even the high cost of polder agriculture was better than inland agriculture. Guyana's agri on the coast and inland will always have to be at high marginal cost, so there will need to be some form of protectionism. Cussing out the Americans, British and Europeans will not help. Those Latins are a lot more clannish than CaribJ's Indos .

FM
Originally Posted by Wally:

Times have changed TK.  The world has changed.  If Britain is willing to practice racial and religious equality in Guyana and gives self government to Guyana similar to Scotland then why not seek a new relationship with them similar to Bermuda and Anguilla. The resources of Guyana  together with new technologies available to harness them can make it attractive to Britain to enter into a special partnership with Guyana. 

 

On a serious note there have always been progressive white people during the empire who fought for rights of blacks and others. They fought to end slave trade and slavery. Didn't Mahatma Gandhi use the British court system to win rights for Indians in South Africa? Can a minority use the court system in China or Russia with such success? The progressives fought for universal adult suffrage, even before Cheddi and Burnham came on the scene. Then in Guyana you had a few white plantation owners who made a point of hiring free Africans and contract expired Indians even when they could have hired the cheaper Indian on indenture contract. Then entered the Fabian Socialist Jock Campbell. His policies led to major social improvements on the estates. Here is an article published in a scholarly journal showing the dramatic decline in mortality during the period of Campbell.

 

http://link.springer.com/article/10.2307%2F2060149

 

On addition, Clem Seecharan noted that Campbell made a socialist offer to Cheddi Jagan. He offered 51% ownership of sugar assets to the Guyana govt and they Bookers will keep 49 and introduce the two-tier board along German corporate governance model. Now that sounded to me a lot better than nationalization.

FM
Originally Posted by Tola:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Ah notice how de Snake and his PPP/Cohorts quietly slithered away from this thread

He gone change he skin, for a new deceitful comeback.

 

He's trying to figure out how to square his delusions of an Anglo-American Alliance with Guyana with the PPP/C's habit of constantly pissing on Washington and London.

FM

Folks, the Guyana govt reserve the right to denied the British of their claim of the Falkland Island and defend it's neighbor, Argentina, at will. Guyana is an independent nation from the British and we don't own them squat. The British can piss and shit about Guyana's decision on neighboring countries. The British should pay Guyanese for the enslavement of our fore-parents. If Venezuela should make claim on Guyana, they will resolved with diplomacy as they did for so many years. If they decided to invade our country, the British and American will defend Guyana regardless. If the British and Americans are truly defending democracy around the world, why would they leave Guyana defenseless if Venezuela will wants to invade?

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Folks, the Guyana govt reserve the right to denied the British of their claim of the Falkland Island and defend it's neighbor, Argentina, at will. Guyana is an independent nation from the British and we don't own them squat. The British can piss and shit about Guyana's decision on neighboring countries. The British should pay Guyanese for the enslavement of our fore-parents. If Venezuela should make claim on Guyana, they will resolved with diplomacy as they did for so many years. If they decided to invade our country, the British and American will defend Guyana regardless. If the British and Americans are truly defending democracy around the world, why would they leave Guyana defenseless if Venezuela will wants to invade?

 

Sweet like sumutoo, sweet like psydium, sweet like Buxton spice, sweet like sapodilla.

FM
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Folks, the Guyana govt reserve the right to denied the British of their claim of the Falkland Island and defend it's neighbor, Argentina, at will. Guyana is an independent nation from the British and we don't own them squat. The British can piss and shit about Guyana's decision on neighboring countries. The British should pay Guyanese for the enslavement of our fore-parents. If Venezuela should make claim on Guyana, they will resolved with diplomacy as they did for so many years. If they decided to invade our country, the British and American will defend Guyana regardless. If the British and Americans are truly defending democracy around the world, why would they leave Guyana defenseless if Venezuela will wants to invade?

 

Sweet like sumutoo, sweet like psydium, sweet like Buxton spice, sweet like sapodilla.

 

I don't know how to respond to this level of cognitive dissonance.....F the effin British! Argentina can F'em good! Dem effin limeys enslaved meh grandfaddah. Why won't those nice British people help me in my hour of need?

FM
Originally Posted by GT Stingaa:
Would the U.S defend Guyana against a Venezuelan military invasion?Caracas, Venezuela

Should Venezuela progress with an invasion, Britain will immediately defend Guyana.

 

Of note ... while countries have become independent, there is a formal document stating clearly that Britain will defend any former colony.

 

It depend of what the US_of_A decides on this matter.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by GT Stingaa:
Would the U.S defend Guyana against a Venezuelan military invasion?Caracas, Venezuela

Should Venezuela progress with an invasion, Britain will immediately defend Guyana.

 

Of note ... while countries have become independent, there is a formal document stating clearly that Britain will defend any former colony.

 

It depend of what the US_of_A decides on this matter.

Correct, D_G. The American will most likely support the British against Venezuela invasion on a former British colony.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by GT Stingaa:
Would the U.S defend Guyana against a Venezuelan military invasion?Caracas, Venezuela

Should Venezuela progress with an invasion, Britain will immediately defend Guyana.

 

Of note ... while countries have become independent, there is a formal document stating clearly that Britain will defend any former colony.

 

It depend of what the US_of_A decides on this matter.

Sweeter than sumutoo, sweeter than psydium, sweeter than Buxton spice, sweeter than sapodilla, sweeter than white lady guava, sweeter than antidesma, sweeter than genip.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:
The British may defend Guyans as a member of the commonwealth countries.

  1.  Guyana has come out against the UKs claim for the Falklands, despite the fact that almost every one in the Falklands favors continued UK rule.

 

2.  The USA buys significant amounts of energy products from Venezuela.  They aren't about to interrupt that supply.  Maduros will fall out of his own incompetence.  The USA has patience enough to wait for that.

 

3.  The PPP has been very insulting to US, and UK diplomats. Why should either nation care, given that Guyana represents nothing of importance to either.  Please don't babble about Guyana being the only English speaking South American nations, because more people in Brazil speak English than live in Guyana.  In addition most non Caribbean people do not consider that spoken by the average Guyanese to be English.

FM
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by GT Stingaa:
Would the U.S defend Guyana against a Venezuelan military invasion?Caracas, Venezuela

Should Venezuela progress with an invasion, Britain will immediately defend Guyana.

 

Of note ... while countries have become independent, there is a formal document stating clearly that Britain will defend any former colony.

 

It depend of what the US_of_A decides on this matter.

Sweeter than sumutoo, sweeter than psydium, sweeter than Buxton spice, sweeter than sapodilla, sweeter than white lady guava, sweeter than antidesma, sweeter than genip.

D_G, is this Nehru? TK never grin like this to me. Well, what the rass this is?

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by GT Stingaa:
Would the U.S defend Guyana against a Venezuelan military invasion?Caracas, Venezuela

Should Venezuela progress with an invasion, Britain will immediately defend Guyana.

 

Of note ... while countries have become independent, there is a formal document stating clearly that Britain will defend any former colony.

 

It depend of what the US_of_A decides on this matter.

Correct, D_G. The American will most likely support the British against Venezuela invasion on a former British colony.

The thing is that these guys really believe this.

 

You know why Venezuela wouldn't invade Guyana?  Because they also have border claims with Colombia, and Brazil has designs of their own on Guyana.  So we are left with a stalemate.  Venezuela will neither invade Guyana, nor relinquish their claims on it.

FM

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