Coming from an ex politician, I guess you would be experienced enough to know that politicians are not all knowing and all brilliant. Is this a sad commentary about yourself? 

Dude, you were all for the coalition with Nagamootoo as the presidential candidate. Once Granger was awarded the presidency, your opinions changed. I still want you to show me how you were going to get the PNC supporters to vote for Nagamootoo if he was chosen ahead of Granger. In case you don't realize it, the voting public in Guyana is still polarized along racial lines. The same argument that you are using which states that Indians will not vote for the PNC holds true in that Blacks will not vote en masse for Nagamootoo. It's just the way it is. Granger had a falling out with the Linden PNC faction and is just managing to woo them back into the fold. What do you think would happen if he sold them out and asked them to vote for Nagamootoo? That would be the death of the coalition before it even got off the ground. Besides that, the PNC is bringing the largest voting base to the table by far so they deserve to have the presidency. There was never a thought in my mind that they would give that up.

It is indeed a commentary on all politicians and wannabe politicians. Present interlocutor included.

I am in favor of a coalition that can win. Not a coalition for the sake of having a coalition. And certainly not one grounded in dreams of unicorns and pixie dust.

I certainly do realize the voting public is still polarized along race. I'm not convinced that Blacks wouldn't vote for a Nagamootoo led PNC-coalition because frankly what choice would they have? Vote PPP?

The problem that the PNC has historically failed to grasp and which apparently still informs their thinking is that they are a minority party because they represent a minority race. 100% of the black vote does not make for a winning strategy in Guyana.

Indians are clearly a majority of the electoral rolls. Therefore, it is incumbent on any party who wants to win to appeal to them.

I'm sorry that reality is unpleasant for you but it tis what it tis.

P.S...the "largest voting bloc" doesn't mean a goddamn thing without enough Indians to turn said bloc into a Government.

you are an inartful liar with convenient short-term memory issues

dude, u have been quite articulate on this BB in [personally] favoring a coalition ONLY if led by an Indian Guyanese

if it is simply about "winning" as you now claim . . . why throw all your efforts into re-electing the PPP? especially since, as u say, the coalition committed political suicide by having David Granger as its Presidential candidate

Jai Hind! . . . no?

Originally Posted by Mars:

Coming from an ex politician, I guess you would be experienced enough to know that politicians are not all knowing and all brilliant. Is this a sad commentary about yourself? 

Dude, you were all for the coalition with Nagamootoo as the presidential candidate. Once Granger was awarded the presidency, your opinions changed. I still want you to show me how you were going to get the PNC supporters to vote for Nagamootoo if he was chosen ahead of Granger. In case you don't realize it, the voting public in Guyana is still polarized along racial lines. The same argument that you are using which states that Indians will not vote for the PNC holds true in that Blacks will not vote en masse for Nagamootoo. It's just the way it is. Granger had a falling out with the Linden PNC faction and is just managing to woo them back into the fold. What do you think would happen if he sold them out and asked them to vote for Nagamootoo? That would be the death of the coalition before it even got off the ground. Besides that, the PNC is bringing the largest voting base to the table by far so they deserve to have the presidency. There was never a thought in my mind that they would give that up.

 

It is indeed a commentary on all politicians and wannabe politicians. Present interlocutor included.

 

I am in favor of a coalition that can win. Not a coalition for the sake of having a coalition. And certainly not one grounded in dreams of unicorns and pixie dust.

 

I certainly do realize the voting public is still polarized along race. I'm not convinced that Blacks wouldn't vote for a Nagamootoo led PNC-coalition because frankly what choice would they have? Vote PPP?

 

The problem that the PNC has historically failed to grasp and which apparently still informs their thinking is that they are a minority party because they represent a minority race. 100% of the black vote does not make for a winning strategy in Guyana.

 

Indians are clearly a majority of the electoral rolls. Therefore, it is incumbent on any party who wants to win to appeal to them.

 

I'm sorry that reality is unpleasant for you but it tis what it tis.

 

P.S...the "largest voting bloc" doesn't mean a goddamn thing without enough Indians to turn said bloc into a Government.

The entire opposition is looking for a coalition that will win. However, one that has your horse in the race as the presidential candidate is not a winning formula.

In 2011, approximately 87% of Indians voted PPP and around 13% cast a protest vote and voted for the other parties AFC and APNU. Same for the black vote, with somewhere close to 87% voting for APNU. This formula led to a majority of votes for the opposition and left the PPP with 49% of the vote. All the opposition coalition has to do is to hold serve and maintain those 13% who are willing to cast a protest vote against the PPP and turn out their base in solid numbers.

Anyone with a bit of common sense will see that it is lot easier to hold onto the 13% PPP Indian protest votes (who have already voted against the PPP) than to have 87% of blacks vote for an Indian president in Nagamootoo. If you think that the only choices blacks have would be to vote for a Moses led APNU or the rotten PPP, you're dead wrong. They will stay home. See Dr. Hinds' commentary which basically says the same thing - "The APNU, on the other hand, got the top leadership spot, which some of us felt is critical for mobilizing a large turn out to the polls by the African Guyanese electorate."

I'm not saying that the coalition as it's comprised is a lock to win the elections, but it gives the opposition the best chance of unseating the PPP. The other two options of a Moses led opposition coalition or no coalition guarantees the PPP at least returning as a minority government. The present coalition gives the opposition a fighting chance to win. 

I don't find it strange at all Gilly. I do find it amusing. That is why I think there is a fine line between diplomacy and hypocrisy.

Moses is a difficult guy to figure out. He looked very out of place at the press conference.

OK so piss off anti PPP voters because you don't like them, and wait for May 11th before you do anything.

I the next 3 months the PPP will be engaging in racial panic, vote buying and voter suppression.  You need EVERY vote that you can get, and this attitude of yours suggest that you will not.

Its a good thing that Nagamootoo doesn't inhabit the same latrine that you do so there might be hope yet.

You are as daft as that fellow Caribj. Here we are, expressing our opinions as to outcome, speculating from tenuous data and coming up with scenarios and you cone heads are speaking about who vote or not as the necessary ingredient to having an opinion!

And where in the hell do you get the idea that the PPP got 15 percent of their votes from blacks and others? Even so, does not this 15 percent makes them vulnerable since these people would be once again expected to vote against their own interest? Why do you place more emphasis on these folks remaining loyal and yet insist the 5k of the defectors from the PPP ( you said you agree with caribj) will be gleefully running home given the AFC and APNU decides to tie bundle?

Suck on this.

1.  the coalition is done and cannot be undone.  Some of us have reservations about it, but we have two choices.  Either accept it or accept the PPP.  So those of us who are anti PPP must work with it. 

I have already offered my opinions as to how it might work, and I note that David Hinds, whose influence exceeds that of ANY one on this forum, has said just about the same things.  Like me he has his concerns, but like me he feels that anti PPP forces will have to work with what is there, and that is the APNU/AFC coalition.

So why are you still screaming that I must have another strategy?  The folks in Guyana have done what they wish, and there is NOTHING that you and I can do with it.  Its a new day,  Get on with it.

2.  The demographics haven't shifted that much in 3 years.  Regardless as to how many Indian votes exist, the PPP only lost the majority by 5k.  Given that they have vast resources at their disposal it isn't that hard for them to get that by playing to racial panic (ensuring that the anti Indian violence of 1997 and 2001 is replayed), by vote buying, and by voter suppression.  These guys are desperate and will stop at nothing to win.

So you can rant about who didn't like what alliance and then turn them into your enemy, or you can recognize that the APNU/AFC alliances lacks the resources that the PPP has, and so needs to do its utmost to mobilize all anti PPP people out to get registered, and out to vote.

Now unless you tell me that you will go down to Guyana to campaign, you will help raise the millions of dollars that they will need, or that you will go down to vote, you, caribj,Stormy, Shaitaan and the rest of us are IRRELEVANT.

So quit screaming your nonsense to some one, who like you, hates the PPP!

You couldn't be referring to me because my suspicion is that the Indian vote is around 47%.

It is irrelevant what % of the overall population is Indian because children and unregistered people don't vote.  Indians are older than the average Guyanese, and are more likely to be registered because the PPP in the past did a better job at mobilizing its base than did the PNC.

Carib you align yourself with de right man deh what is his name now Shaitaan? oh shytes banna you gat serious problems deh.

That "active friend of the afc" you gat there.  

????????????

(where is the scratching-my-head emoticon?)

see if this works....

I jut discovered why the PPP brigade aren't posting.  They are laughing at the fact that the hard core AFCites are too busy attacking other anti PPP posters to have time to bother with the PPP.

Thankfully the AFC people who matter, those in Guyana, are way more sensible.  I read Nagamootoo's comments and he is on the right track.  Let us hope that he is able to bring others up to his level of thinking.

You just lookin fuh frens but dem racists in the PPP always liked you J. You were helping each other.

You scratch my racist back I will scratch yours. Dat is not the game you fellas were playing forever? this coalition thing totally upset all yuh backsides.

Now lemme guess you gonna be a big coalition proponent bigger than the coalition itself....right?

OK yesterday we just got the news so the reaction was understandably based on our opinions as to whether it was a  good or not.

Today we have two choices.  We accept the APNU/AFC coalition, or we endorse the PPP.  Each will have his own reasons for doing so.

I assess Shaitaan as the type of Indian who can be brought over if people take the time to understand his concerns and attempt to address them.

The PNC for the first time ever has conceded quite a bit, and to a party considerably less powerful.  Those in the AFC, with PPP backgrounds, have also buried their animosity to the PNC.  There is a new experiment in the making that will indicate the degree to which coalitions can work in Guyana. Risky yes and with real challenges yes, but they have made the decision and there is nothing that a bunch of armchair prognosticators in North America can do about it.

So redux if you really want to be part of the process you really shouldn't be making me your enemy,  as we both resent the PPP.

You shouldn't be making Shaitaan your enemy either.  Yes Indians like him will recoil in shock at being asked to vote for a coalition headed by the PNC.  But then Nagamootoo has his work cut out. If he cannot woo people like Shaitaan, who hate the PPP, then he stands no chance with the type of Indian who is sitting on the fence, who sees the PPP as damaged, but who can live with them as they are.

So I suggest that you reserve your venom for the PPP.

Here is the deal HM. You know full well that the PNC has attracted support for almost all blacks, mainly for reasons of racial paranoia and angst about the Indian domination of Guyana.  These are the people who tell me what is going on in Guyana.

Continue to ridicule call them, and call them racist, and watch and see how many of them take time out, and don't vote.  So who benefits then?  The PPP of course.

Most of these people voted for Nagamootoo a PPP man, as they shared his view about how degraded the PPP had become under Jagdeo.  Many of them are hard core Jaganites and the notion of them voting for the PNC is like asking you to vote for the KKK.

So you cannot assume that you have this votes. Nagamootoo collected abut 10k of these in regions 5 and 6.  If the voter turn out and composition is like it was in 2011 all the PPP needs to is panic 50% of them with TV scenes of Indians getting beaten up in G/town in 1997 and in 2001.  Well within the memory of most voters.

I will suggest to you that the APNU/AFC cannot wait to see if these PPP Nagamootoo voters will give him another chance.  They need to woo them obviously, as they need to woo EVERY SINGLE voter or non voter of voting age in Guyana.

They CANNOT take any voter for granted.  Not Indian, not African, not mixed, not Amerindian, not urban, coastal or interior dweller!

Stormy. Are you going down to Guyana to campaign, ORGANIZING the raising millions of dollars for them, or planning to vote?  If you aren't then you are an armchair prognosticator. I will happily admit to being one.

I agree.  This coalition will have real challenges and those who have childish rages when these challenges are being pointed out ought to get over it. 

Nagamootoo made comments which suggest to me that he is cognizant of the fact that many of his PPP base will be confused, and clearly he plans to set them at ease.  He will do so by pointing out that the Granger PNC isn't the Burnham PNC, nor is it the "mo fyah" PNC at a time when they were frustrated and so the hardline element condoned violence.

I assume that there are elements within the PNC who will tell Granger that he needs to shed his aloofness and bond with the urban grass roots of G/town and Linden, as well as the black villagers on he coast and the pork knocker communities of the interior.

Granger set the stage last year when he did outreach to rice farmers in Region 3.  Nagamootoo can build up on it.

In addition, given that voter turnout has dropped by 65k over the 10 year period between 2001 and 2011 (and no this isn't just due to emigration) it is obvious that many regular voters stay home, and many young voters never registered.  So outreach to these people will be important, conveying to them that a new political environment is about to be created, and that if they don't participate by voting, it will not come about.

The sight of anti PPPites arguing because some AFC fanatics are enraged that others didn't automatically follow, and might even today still has concerns, benefits the PPP.

Mitwah and HM_redux please feel free to continue to call me a racist, because I give voice to the concerns of ethnic exclusion that most Afro/mixed Guyanese fear. What you will do is to suggest to them that voting is not useful and that they ought to survive on their own devices, because the system doesn't acknowledge their concerns.

If you think that this coalition will win without a massive African/mixed turn out you are being ridiculous, so you need to tone down your nonsense.  Leave that to the PPP which wants to continue to abuse Africans.

In my dialogue with Shaitaan I actually discovered that he is less disdainful towards blacks, and more concerned that many blacks in Guyana feel excluded than you are. 

He is presently going through his racial panic at the thought of the "mo fyah" PNC with its "beat down collie" violence which certainly hardliners condoned between 1997 and 2002. 

But he can be brought around.  Just assure him that the PNC has been tamed.  It has its hardliners under leash, and in any case Nagamootoo will have some influence over them.

This is how mature adults behave. Not that vulgarity typical of the HM-Redux, Mitwah and Jalil cohort.

Look at Kari. One of the most loyal Nagamootoo supporters on GNI, and yet even he had an initial reaction to it, and like many of us, has now decided that this is what anti PPP forces have to work with.

You see what you want to see it is the tint in the lens and the warp in the lens.........u dig?

The PPP lost by only 5,000 votes.  Do the math and you will see, so don't take that fact for granted.

Stormy quit your histrionics and accept the fact that if most of the votes which the PPP and the PNC get are based on race, obviously there are more Indian voters than there are black/mixed voters.

The 40% Indian vote that you peddle is nonsense and I sincerely hope that APNU/AFC don't believe this as this will cause them to not devote the amount of attention to this bloc that they will need to.

This time;

1.  Indians need to be wooed, by allaying their concerns about the PNC and informing them that Nagamootoo will not be the do nothing PM that Sam Hinds is, so will be more effective at ensuring that the interests of Indians is included, whereas Sam Hinds is unable/unwilling to do this for Africans.

2.  Africans/mixed who aren't registered need to be, and the population needs to be informed that this is the best chance to defeat the PPP, but this will only happen if they vote.

3. Amerindians need to be told that they will be treated like adults with all the rights, privileges and obligations that other Guyanese have.  Interior turn out is very low, so there should be new votes to pick up, in addition to some old UF votes that drifted to the PPP.

OK I see that we will have to leave you behind.  Cannot help you if you, Mitwah and Jalil behave like the AFC version of Nehru.

hehehhehee  ok if you seh suh.....

Bai, truth be told, diplomacy is hypocrisy, plain and simple.

Dude, what a bunch of lying crapola you're coming to me with now. You stated that you were against the coalition and your strategy was for the AFC and APNU to go into the elections as separate parties. I am not screaming that you should have another strategy. That strategy came from your own lying mouth which is now trying to twist in another direction. You came up with this brilliant plan that the AFC should work on siphoning off more Indian votes from the PPP and that is a better strategy to bring down the PPP. Even if by some miracle, the AFC were somehow capable of reducing the PPP vote by another 4%, that would bring them down to 45%. The PPP votes would go to the AFC, not the PNC so the most the PNC are going to do is stay at 40% and no more than 43%. So how in heaven's name would the PPP lose? Contesting the elections as separate parties is a surrender to the PPP and is for cowards like you who can never take a stand. What would be the purpose of the No Confidence vote then? It would be a farce and a major waste of time.

So suddenly you read Dr. Hinds' commentary and you're now twisting your mouth to say that it's in line with your thinking. Stop the lying. You're a big man. You were totally against the coalition, whereas Dr. Hinds is supportive of the merger even though he has reservations about a winning outcome. I've said it several times that I know that there is no guarantee that the coalition will win but a Granger led coalition gives the opposition the best chance of kicking the PPP out. You obviously want the status quo to remain since nothing ventured is nothing gained.

Don't chop my sentence in half and make up arguments against half of what is said. You've in effect twisted the entire meaning and context of what I said.

Here's the entire sentence and the paragraph framing it -

Anyone with a bit of common sense will see that it is lot easier to hold onto the 13% PPP Indian protest votes (who have already voted against the PPP) than to have 87% of blacks vote for an Indian president in Nagamootoo. If you think that the only choices blacks have would be to vote for a Moses led APNU or the rotten PPP, you're dead wrong. They will stay home. See Dr. Hinds' commentary which basically says the same thing - "The APNU, on the other hand, got the top leadership spot, which some of us felt is critical for mobilizing a large turn out to the polls by the African Guyanese electorate."

One thing for sure, I don't have blood on my hands. And I am not an ideological racist like you. Nehru is a good human being.

Since when Nehru is a good human being?

True Rama but since OH PRIYA PRIYA cuss down the US Ambassador, is all man jack who is an East indian getting a visa.

People living in Richmond Hill do not vote.

The PPP Jagdeoite crooks going down, down, down.

Guyana will rise again, and we would be a proud people in Caricom, not beggars for crumbs that fall from the tables of tiny islands with no resources to match ours.

These rogues have no shame for making us mendicants.

For Peace, Progress and prosperity, Vote PPP.  

Donot waste you vote on the AFC alliance.

okay anything you say