ronan posted:

Baseman posted:

Mr.T posted:

The Wismar incident changed my life beyond recovery. But my family was lucky. As we are part buck my grandfather and uncle used their skills of survival in the bush to get us to hide and evade the mobs that had decided to chase after people who had fled into the bushes. We then got help from the Buck village in West Watooka to cross over to Watooka and get a place on one of the ferries that took victims to GT. Many others were not so lucky. The claim that only five people died is hard to believe. Five bodies were found, but many people ended up in the river. Who knows how many drowned, or were murdered and dumped in the river, with the bodies never found?

This is consistent with what eyewitness told us, what doctors told my parents and the woman I met years ago in NJ.  She never found the body of her husband.  She said someone told her that her husband and several others were captured and never seen again.  She believes the bodies are in the river with weights or buried in the bushes.

There was a lot more carnage than deniers are willing to accept.  The PNC trying to blackout history and highlight what’s convenient. 

Your take on Diaper_Guy have some merit!

If you know ANYTHING about what actually transpired you would realize that foolishness about “captured” and hidden bodies in the river with “weights” are nothing but fantasy conjured up for vile propaganda purposes

the Commission’s report was dated January 1965, a full half year+ after the incident(s) . . .

why were the names of these ‘missing’ and extra dead not provided by your “eyewitness(es)” to these finders of fact who were, in fact, (properly) downright hostile in their accounting of the terrorizers and their enablers?

Not eyewitness.  I met the woman who never found her husband’s body.  Maybe she just imagining things.  How about that!

Baseman posted:

ronan posted:

Baseman posted:

Mr.T posted:

The Wismar incident changed my life beyond recovery. But my family was lucky. As we are part buck my grandfather and uncle used their skills of survival in the bush to get us to hide and evade the mobs that had decided to chase after people who had fled into the bushes. We then got help from the Buck village in West Watooka to cross over to Watooka and get a place on one of the ferries that took victims to GT. Many others were not so lucky. The claim that only five people died is hard to believe. Five bodies were found, but many people ended up in the river. Who knows how many drowned, or were murdered and dumped in the river, with the bodies never found?

This is consistent with what eyewitness told us, what doctors told my parents and the woman I met years ago in NJ.  She never found the body of her husband.  She said someone told her that her husband and several others were captured and never seen again.  She believes the bodies are in the river with weights or buried in the bushes.

There was a lot more carnage than deniers are willing to accept.  The PNC trying to blackout history and highlight what’s convenient. 

Your take on Diaper_Guy have some merit!

If you know ANYTHING about what actually transpired you would realize that foolishness about “captured” and hidden bodies in the river with “weights” are nothing but fantasy conjured up for vile propaganda purposes

the Commission’s report was dated January 1965, a full half year+ after the incident(s) . . .

why were the names of these ‘missing’ and extra dead not provided by your “eyewitness(es)” to these finders of fact who were, in fact, (properly) downright hostile in their accounting of the terrorizers and their enablers?

Not eyewitness.  I met the woman who never found her husband’s body.  Maybe she just imagining things.  How about that!

If she knew he was killed, why did she not tell that to the Commission?

ronan posted:

Baseman posted:

ronan posted:

Baseman posted:

Mr.T posted:

The Wismar incident changed my life beyond recovery. But my family was lucky. As we are part buck my grandfather and uncle used their skills of survival in the bush to get us to hide and evade the mobs that had decided to chase after people who had fled into the bushes. We then got help from the Buck village in West Watooka to cross over to Watooka and get a place on one of the ferries that took victims to GT. Many others were not so lucky. The claim that only five people died is hard to believe. Five bodies were found, but many people ended up in the river. Who knows how many drowned, or were murdered and dumped in the river, with the bodies never found?

This is consistent with what eyewitness told us, what doctors told my parents and the woman I met years ago in NJ.  She never found the body of her husband.  She said someone told her that her husband and several others were captured and never seen again.  She believes the bodies are in the river with weights or buried in the bushes.

There was a lot more carnage than deniers are willing to accept.  The PNC trying to blackout history and highlight what’s convenient. 

Your take on Diaper_Guy have some merit!

If you know ANYTHING about what actually transpired you would realize that foolishness about “captured” and hidden bodies in the river with “weights” are nothing but fantasy conjured up for vile propaganda purposes

the Commission’s report was dated January 1965, a full half year+ after the incident(s) . . .

why were the names of these ‘missing’ and extra dead not provided by your “eyewitness(es)” to these finders of fact who were, in fact, (properly) downright hostile in their accounting of the terrorizers and their enablers?

Not eyewitness.  I met the woman who never found her husband’s body.  Maybe she just imagining things.  How about that!

If she knew he was killed, why did she not tell that to the Commission?

If I see her I will ask!

Baseman posted:

ronan posted:

Mr.T posted:

The Wismar incident changed my life beyond recovery. But my family was lucky. As we are part buck my grandfather and uncle used their skills of survival in the bush to get us to hide and evade the mobs that had decided to chase after people who had fled into the bushes. We then got help from the Buck village in West Watooka to cross over to Watooka and get a place on one of the ferries that took victims to GT. Many others were not so lucky. The claim that only five people died is hard to believe. Five bodies were found, but many people ended up in the river. Who knows how many drowned, or were murdered and dumped in the river, with the bodies never found?

Mr T, there was no pogrom against “Buck” people at Wismar, it was anti-East Indian . . and you need to stop using that slur term for Amerindian people

your credibility is suspect with your posting of irresponsible and disrespectful nonsense about Demerara_Guy given the circumstances

and enough with the imaginings, this is not some Hollywood movie banna

You rass funny.  You said D_G and MrT knows best.  Now MrT contradicts your fake narrative and he has no credibility.  D_Gs narrative makes little sense given it was one of the worse outbreak of violence of that era.  

Gwan suh!

and where exactly did i say that?

you need to stop listening to the lil bacoo in your head and try to keep up

ok?

Baseman posted:

ronan posted:

If you know ANYTHING about what actually transpired you would realize that foolishness about “captured” and hidden bodies in the river with “weights” are nothing but fantasy conjured up for vile propaganda purposes

the Commission’s report was dated January 1965, a full half year+ after the incident(s) . . .

why were the names of these ‘missing’ and extra dead not provided by your “eyewitness(es)” to these finders of fact who were, in fact, (properly) downright hostile in their accounting of the terrorizers and their enablers?

Not eyewitness.  I met the woman who never found her husband’s body.  Maybe she just imagining things.  How about that!

The man probably fed up uh she and run off with another woman. 

People made up a lot of stories about the violence during the sixties. If you listen to the PPP, you would swear that there was no violence originating from their side. Wismar did not happen in a vacuum. There were killings on both sides that led up to that event. 

Demerara_Guy posted:

Gilbakka posted:

What happened at Wismar in 1964 was a heinous tragedy but, given that only 5 persons were murdered, the word "massacre" is not apt. Massacre is mass murder. There was a mass exodus unprecedented in Guyana, however. Nothing wrong with a new research group. The contacts are university graduates and I am puzzled at their choice of the word "massacre". I wish the group well in its research and look forward to publication of its report.

Of the five reported murdered, three are my relatives ...

1. Richard Khan -- my cousin.

2. Issac Bridgewater -- my godfather.

3. Paul Mirgin -- a relative.

The other two individuals named are ...

a. Byron Wharton -- suffered burns from a burning building.

b. Gussie English -- shot by the police for looting.

Note carefully what I stated .....

five reported murdered

Indeed it was stated that more individuals were killed or disappeared. This information I got first-hand, many years later, when I returned to Guyana after university studies.

I referenced five individuals which was stated in the official documents from the inquiry commission report.

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Iggy, is it true that an Indian woman refused Fatboy and that's what brought about that sad and dark time in our history? Same thing led to Idi Amin's expulsion of Indians from Uganda. Fatboy and Idi were two evil twins.

Never heard that theory, but sincerely doubt it. People give fatboy too much credit. I do not know the reason for what transpired other than what happened was horrible. A relative of mine saw victims arriving at a wharf in GT and said it was terrible.

FACT - at that time Forbes was busy cheating on his Trini wife with Viola

this is simply another fantasy take on the blackman always planning fuh rape and otherwise violate abie Indo woman

smfh

Demerara_Guy posted:

Demerara_Guy posted:

Gilbakka posted:

What happened at Wismar in 1964 was a heinous tragedy but, given that only 5 persons were murdered, the word "massacre" is not apt. Massacre is mass murder. There was a mass exodus unprecedented in Guyana, however. Nothing wrong with a new research group. The contacts are university graduates and I am puzzled at their choice of the word "massacre". I wish the group well in its research and look forward to publication of its report.

Of the five reported murdered, three are my relatives ...

1. Richard Khan -- my cousin.

2. Issac Bridgewater -- my godfather.

3. Paul Mirgin -- a relative.

The other two individuals named are ...

a. Byron Wharton -- suffered burns from a burning building.

b. Gussie English -- shot by the police for looting.

Note carefully what I stated .....

five reported murdered

 

Indeed it was stated that more individuals were killed or disappeared. This information I got first-hand, many years later, when I returned to Guyana after university studies.

I referenced five individuals which was stated in the official documents from the inquiry commission report.

There were officially three people “murdered” not five

i too conducted research and interviewed people when i returned to Guyana in the nineties and, before that, as a QC student, i had an interest and talked to a lot of eyewitnesses with INTIMATE first-hand knowledge of the tragedy and other runnings who had NO REASON to lie!

Baseman posted:

Gilbakka posted:

What happened at Wismar in 1964 was a heinous tragedy but, given that only 5 persons were murdered, the word "massacre" is not apt. Massacre is mass murder. There was a mass exodus unprecedented in Guyana, however. Nothing wrong with a new research group. The contacts are university graduates and I am puzzled at their choice of the word "massacre". I wish the group well in its research and look forward to publication of its report.

This is a total coverup.  I met a woman in NJ years ago who never found her husband’s body as such he is not counted. 

RH Car brought the victims by the dozens to Atkinson Field, many women/young girls with the most brutal of sex crimes.  So it was not only the five bodies found.

But count on people like you to run from history.  Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it!

Yes.

I had an uncle out there, his three daughters were molested. Even some black ppl today said how horrific it was. Bodies just laid on the parapit, groaning from the carnage and beatings

I guess some Indians get creolized or dey stop being Indians. Their minds conditioned to thinking like the Blackman, "dem cooolie ppl deserve the beatings, looting and raping." 

The Indians try to assimilate in a community that was highly paid by the Bauxite Company. Covetiousness just made spite tek over the decency of minds.

No place in Guyana is safe for the Indians. The hate is still rampant today just as the days in Wismar.

Dem Lindeners should have memorial services to appease the evil spirits that invaded that community in 1964. It was two men from GT who riled up the group in GT and ferried dem to Wismar for the carnage. Strange how wan a dem have long life. It muss be fah a reason.

Mars posted:

Baseman posted:

ronan posted:

If you know ANYTHING about what actually transpired you would realize that foolishness about “captured” and hidden bodies in the river with “weights” are nothing but fantasy conjured up for vile propaganda purposes

the Commission’s report was dated January 1965, a full half year+ after the incident(s) . . .

why were the names of these ‘missing’ and extra dead not provided by your “eyewitness(es)” to these finders of fact who were, in fact, (properly) downright hostile in their accounting of the terrorizers and their enablers?

Not eyewitness.  I met the woman who never found her husband’s body.  Maybe she just imagining things.  How about that!

The man probably fed up uh she and run off with another woman. 

People made up a lot of stories about the violence during the sixties. If you listen to the PPP, you would swear that there was no violence originating fro them their side. Wismar did not happen in a vacuum. There were killings on both sides that led up to that event. 

Typical, it is a good thing you living in America. In Guyana, you would never assimilate. Dispise the cooolieman at all cost.

Predictable. On here, if you are black then it is expected to be anti-indian. And some Indians believe that the blackman din hate Indians back in 1838. Just read their shit on here. 

Django posted:

Mits,

who are these folks who want to re-write history.

I see. More black man bad. Why not look at the TOTALITY of the 1962-64 violence.  More people were killed on the Chapman and there is a lie that Janet Jagan peddled that it was the PNC to blame. 

Police investigations at the time were inconclusive, however given the massive amounts of explosives available in the McK area one can wonder why anyone would risk transporting explosives from G/T.  First is that it would have been harder to get and secondly there were already rumors that terrorists were planning to target the vessel, so being caught with such was quite likely.

But continue to further develop enmity from the black population by painting them as a savage and unproductive lot whose only goal being harassing Indian "saints".

It is interesting that the same racists who tell blacks to let bygones be bygones when it comes to the excesses of the Jagdeo era rush to dig up events of 54 years ago.

Already 2020 might be a heated year and one of heightened ethnic conflict and here go some folks wanting to stir it up.  What will definitely help the Coalition to win is if the PPP stirs the ethnic pot.

ronan posted:

skeldon_man posted:

ronan posted:

i would pay attention to what D_G has to say on this matter

he is very close to these events, and respects his murdered relatives enough to present the facts and not dishonor their memory with lies and revisionist race demagoguery

skeldon_man and baseman, here, are beyond shame

Why? Because we know PNC Negroes kill PPP supporters and their families? You might be too young to know what transpired. Maybe you were brainwashed by your relatives blaming the PPP.

i know way more about these events than you and baseman combined . . . let's just leave it at that

I guess you were there beating up cooolie ppl.

Gilbakka posted:

What happened at Wismar in 1964 was a heinous tragedy but, given that only 5 persons were murdered, the word "massacre" is not apt.

In fact MORE were killed on the Chapman and there are already folks who want an investigation into that and demand that Granger do so. 

Do people really want to revisit this period, especially as 99.9% of the perpetrators are either dead or senile?  Who are the witnesses going to be?  People who weren't even 10 at the time?

Now if people want Indians and Africans/Mixed and maybe even Portuguese, to dig deeper into their already existing ethnic insecurities just when the 2020 campaign is to start and right in the middle of the LGE they can go right ahead. 

I smell a plot of a segment of the Indo elites to use ordinary Indians as sacrificial lambs so that they can scream " you see, you see, black man bad, so we must take over the country and permanently punish them".

What Indians who are inclined to follow them need to know is that there is a segment of the African/mixed elites who were gladly match their tactics in order to incite the grass roots to vote for them come 2020.

The refusal of the ENTIRE Indian population, both the radicals and the moderates, to ignore how the African/mixed population will react to what Indians are perceived to be doing will hurt the Indian population in the long run.  There are TWO powerful tribes in Guyana, both possessing the ability to destroy the other, and we need to act in cognizance of this.

Mars posted:

 Wismar did not happen in a vacuum. There were killings on both sides that led up to that event. 

People need to be reminded of this and stop peddling Janet Jagan foolishness. She wanted to run roughshod over the country and invented a narrative of PPP "innocence" to get international support for her plot.

This happened in 1964.  If the average "combatant" on either side was 24 this means that they will be 78 now.  Given what we know of Guyana's mortality rate how many of them are alive, or in a state to provide a coherent perspective. And as Burnham and Cheddi are both dead as are many of their peers isn't it silly to begin a comprehensive analysis.

Granger provided a sample list of blacks who are killed and a narrative that the PNC can show to prove that it was they who were the victims.  I suggest that people leave this one alone!

seignet posted:

Mars posted:

The man probably fed up uh she and run off with another woman. 

People made up a lot of stories about the violence during the sixties. If you listen to the PPP, you would swear that there was no violence originating fro them their side. Wismar did not happen in a vacuum. There were killings on both sides that led up to that event. 

Typical, it is a good thing you living in America. In Guyana, you would never assimilate. Dispise the cooolieman at all cost.

Predictable. On here, if you are black then it is expected to be anti-indian. And some Indians believe that the blackman din hate Indians back in 1838. Just read their shit on here. 

I don't despise anyone because of their race. I leave that for a racist old goat like you. If we were to listen to fools like you spinning your tall tales, we'd believe that there was no violence coming from the PPP and blacks just woke up one day and decided to kill Indians and chase them out of Wismar. The facts are that there was violence on both sides including the murders of the Sealy couple who were shot and their bodies mutilated shortly before the retaliatory attack at Wismar. Around the same time, a little boy was murdered at Enmore and his head bashed in with an axe.

Excerpt from "Hurricane of Protest - The Impact of Civil Violence on African-Guyanese in 1964"

The lethal character of the ‘Hurricane’ was reinforced by its organisational structure and the supply of trained recruits and weapons. In this regard, the Progressive Youth Organisation (PYO), the youth arm of the PPP, was held to be largely responsible. By the BGTUC’s account:
In 1962 alone, at least 110 members of the PYO were sent off to Communist countries for training, mainly to Cuba. More than 200 are known to have gone to Cuba altogether. Training schools have been established in British Guiana, the instructors being Cubans, in some cases, and Cuban-trained or Soviet-trained PYO members.

Training in terrorism was supported with weapons. At the height of the ‘Hurricane’, a huge cache of submachine guns and ammunition was found by the police on 27 April in Triumph Village, on the East Coast. The nature of the violence itself was frightening. At the start of the GAWU strike in February, Europeans were not targeted except for some arson on the plantations. Next, Indian workers who refused to stop working were intimidated by having the tyres of their bicycles slashed and their houses stoned. But, for most of the campaign, murderous violence was directed at Africans.

The first person to be murdered in Cheddi Jagan’s ‘Hurricane of Protest’ was Edgar Munroe, an African from Manchester Village, Corentyne; he was killed at Tain when the ‘Phantom’ gang threw a bomb into a lorry transporting workers from Manchester to Albion on 4 March 1964. Thereafter, there were relentless attacks against Africans.
Escalation
It soon became evident that the violence had nothing to do with union recognition or Independence. For example, unprovoked attacks were directed against Africans in Buxton Village which did not have a population of sugar workers who could be blamed for breaking the strike. When the ‘Hurricane’ hit Buxton, 80 per cent of its population were African and 20 per cent Indian.

Buxton was chosen as a target because it was traditionally seen as the heart of the African heartland, the base of Eusi Kwayana who was Jagan’s most articulate critic, and a leader of ASCRIA. Cheddi Jagan’s decision to attack Buxton with the intention of embroiling both a prominent African village and a prominent African leader was to have grave consequences up to the present day. On 21 May, the ‘Phantom’ gang shot dead George and Clothilde Sealey, elderly African villagers, aback Buxton. According to Kwayana’s account, “The bodies bore signs of mutilation. The woman appeared to have been raped. Immediately, the news spread and Indians began fleeing from Buxton.” The Sealeys were buried on 25 May.

Soon after, an African boy of Buxton, Joseph Porter, was killed at Enmore after being attacked by a crowd of over a hundred East Indians. According to Kwayana’s contemporary account, “To make sure of Porter’s death his head was bashed in with an axe. It was then that the Buxtonians seemed to have decided on reprisals in like kind and the first Indian deaths in Buxton took place. A few weeks after, the Indian snipers staged a repeat performance by killing three Buxton farmers including a boy.” Africans at Mackenzie became so inflamed by the Sealeys’ murder that they turned on the Indian residents of Wismar on 25 May, killing two. Women were raped, property was destroyed and much of the population was evacuated by the Government.

The ‘Phantom’ gangs then took their violence to Perth, Mahaicony. Eustace Waldron, son of the pastor of the Pilgrim Holiness Church, and Joseph Nedd were machine-gunned on 23 June. How could these attacks on innocent Africans be explained by the demand for union recognition or the struggle for independence?


Organisation
The ‘Hurricane’, it seemed, was clearly a crime against humanity. Murder and other inhumane acts were systematically committed against a civilian population, on political and racial grounds, without decisive efforts by its own government to protect that population and prevent those acts. The daily newspapers of that year comprise a chilling chronicle of the ‘Hurricane’:
5 March: Edgar Munroe of Manchester killed by bomb.
22 March: Granville Browne of Leonora chopped to death.
24 April: Eustace Benjamin of Stewartville beaten to death and Norman Gardener of Uitvlugt had his throat slashed.
12 May: Jocelyn John of Uitvlugt shot dead.
23 May: George and Clothilde Sealey of Buxton-Friendship mutilated and murdered.
25 May: Edward Daziel of Vergenoegen shot dead.
26 May: Alfred Seales of Stewartville beaten to death.
1 June: Cyrus Britton of No 12 Village, West Coast Berbice, chopped to death.
15 June: Edward Grannum of Leonora and Joseph Porter of Buxton beaten to death.
22 June: Alvin Nunes of Golden Grove shot dead.
24 June: Eustace Waldron and Joseph Nedd of Perth Village shot dead.
26 June: Charles Miggins of Leonora shot dead.
28 June: Arthur Greene of Hague shot dead.
30 June: Cecil Wilkinson, 12 years, hacked to death.
4 July: Leonard Cummings, 14 years, Edgar Abrams, and Alphonso David shot dead aback Buxton.
7 July: Launch blown up at Hurudaia killing 43.
10 July: George Halley, Sydney Halley, Royston Bourne and Kenneth Gibbons of Strath Campbell shot dead and ‘disappeared.’ Reginald Blake, Beryl Weslie, Joseph Campbell, Allan Griffith and Burchell Thompson of Perth ‘disappeared’ since 27 June.
15 July: Frank Perry killed in Enmore.
22 July: Cecil Adams killed in Triumph.
27 July: Edgar Stanford of Mara Point shot dead.
25 August: Vivian McKenzie and William Woodroof shot dead on the Abary River.
How could relatives and friends of these victims cope with the awful news? How could children cope with the loss of loved ones and parents? How could a nation be constructed on a heap of corpses?


Dissociation
Cheddi Jagan’s ‘Hurricane of Protest’ was the worst security catastrophe in the history of this country. The official police record of the number of persons killed is stated as 176, but this is a gross underestimation. The actual number of Africans killed is unknown principally because many simply ‘disappeared’ without a trace.

seignet posted:

 

I guess you were there beating up cooolie ppl.

And you were chopping up black women and kids who were fleeing their burning homes.

See both sides can justify the brutality of the era by repeating the myths that they were told!

I see the PPP were deploying "Phantoms" to kill blacks 54 years ago.  Jagdeo just reactivated this.

Now I would think that getting blacks and Indians to repeat the myths that they were told will be a waste of time.  Just understand that all we will hear will be a repetition of myths that BOTH sides concocted from that era.

Now I will tell you of the black myth of the Indian of the time.  They were an ignorant, illiterate drunken lot, adept at the use of sharp cutlasses and driven by a blood thirst desire to kill women and kids fleeing in the middle of the night from homes that they set alight.

And then we will once again collapse into which tribes is worse than which.

Some folks live in their clannish world and don't seem to know that a whole other world live outside of their world, filled with their own myths as well.

Gilbakka posted:

When this new research group publishes its findings we shall know how many persons were killed and their names hopefully.

And the Son Chapman will be rehashed and once again the myths of the savage Indian of the early 60s will be raised again.

Go right ahead.   If people wanted to tell the truth they would look at the ENTIRETY of the era and not dwell only on one incident.

skeldon_man posted:

When Negroes write for Negroes, it's the fault of the PPP the Negroes are the way they are. Negroes are entitled to everything and anything they want in Guyana, even if they each request two Indians as house slaves.

the fact that you can peddle your lies about the 60s ranting that it was only blacks responsible for the violence is because there is very little black writing about the black perspectives of that era. And what little that there is attempts to give a BALANCED view of the era.

But the whole Son Chapman incident can be re-opened, including the fact that the police suspected that a bombing plot was planned by the PYO.

And black villagers on the ECD can be told all about how the PPP planned to kill them in the "Hurricane" using (guess what) Phantoms!

I don't know why some people think that only Indians live in Guyana, so only the Indian perspective is relevant.  So trapped in this clannishness that they live in a complete void.

seignet posted:

 

Dem Lindeners should have memorial services to appease the evil spirits that invaded that community in 1964.

Yes about the people who they lost on the Son Chapman.  In fact just after the election there was a demand for an inquiry into this, but to the credit of someone the matter hasn't been moved on.

But let the Indo KKK reactivate the demand that Lindeners get vengeance for what happened to them when the PYO blew up that boat. And Buxtonians about the "Hurricane" when the PYO slaughtered some of the villagers. And also on the WCD when many blacks were targeted.

Some folks just like trouble.  Oh yes the PPP still thinks that they can win with only the Indian vote so along comes this just before the LGE, which will also have repercussions for 2020.

A prominent businessman of Portuguese extraction expressed the fear that 2020 will be a rerun of 1964, except that this time Guyana will be totally destroyed.

The fact remains that they were two phases of violence in the 60s. 1962/63 when the PNC (working with the UF and the CIA) instigated strikes and levels of violence.  This to destabilize the PPP gov't which won the election in 1961.

In 1964 after it was decided that elections would be held under the new PR rules the PPP unleashed violence and strikes in an attempt to have these elections canceled.

And why did the PPP wish no PR.  In 1961 they won 57% of the parliamentary seats with less than 50% of the vote. They feared a coalition of the PNC and the UF which combined had over 50% of the votes, would result in the PPP losing.  So they set out to sabotage the 1964 election.

It is clear that 1964 was a much more violent year than were 1962 and 1963 COMBINED!

Dave posted:

 

Do you agree Indians suffer at the hands of Africans in Wismar? 

And were the Indian lives at Wismar more valuable than the black lives elsewhere in Guyana.  Clearly your answer is "yes" so we need only focus on Wismar and ignore the violence in the rest of the country.

It was tit for tat. Each attack provoked revenge and I don't even know who knows how it started in 1964 which was the bloodiest year.  The attempt to pretend that Indians were the sole victims is evil, given that the facts suggest otherwise. 

Sheik101 posted:

This is a topic best suited for carib. He'll start off with the sun chapman.. 

And why not.  But of course you think that blacks are stray rats, best off dead so who cares what happened there.

yuji22 posted:

GNI has well documented information of PNC executed racism and

Yes GNI the headquarters of the Indo KKK. What a credible source of objective information.  A site where "black man bad, black man must apologize" is daily promoted.  The narrative of blacks being evil, violent, and useless is celebrated. The narrative of the Indian saint, so keen in wanting to bond with blacks, but rebuffed by those thugs.

You ought to be lucky that Afro centric black Americans haven't bombarded this site or it would have had to be shut down by now.

caribny posted:

Gilbakka posted:

When this new research group publishes its findings we shall know how many persons were killed and their names hopefully.

And the Son Chapman will be rehashed and once again the myths of the savage Indian of the early 60s will be raised again.

Go right ahead.   If people wanted to tell the truth they would look at the ENTIRETY of the era and not dwell only on one incident.

As I said earlier in this thread, the word "massacre" in the research group's name puzzles me. Only 5 named persons were reportedly killed, whereas massacre means mass killing. I think the group should conduct its "research" and list the names of casualties to justify the word massacre. Until then, I don't accept "massacre". I prefer the word "atrocities" and I readily agree with you that both sides committed such heinous killings & violence.

Gilbakka posted:

. I think the group should conduct its "research" and list the names of casualties to justify the word massacre.

You are a naïve man if you think that an objective analysis will be made of this one incident among scores that occurred between 1962-64.  This is another attempt to paint the Indian as a victim of black violence and I bet its part of the PPP's LGE and 2020 strategy.

But wait. Granger already has the black narrative in the wings with Buxton quite prominent among those victimized by PYO thugs. And Linden has already demanded a re-examination of the Son Chapman incident.

This is what a one sided fake analysis of the era will create. A response from the other side.

So what will be achieved.  Just a deeper notion that blacks/mixed and Indians think of each other.  That there should be no trust and that each tribe must protect its turf.  That is even as the elites of both tribes exploit and abuse the grass roots members of their tribes.

It's easy to get Carib riled up ..  just talk about race.  Mars gave a one-sided version of the violence that affected the country in the sixties.  As a former Buxtonian who knew the Sealy very well I can say that alot has been left out of the story.  Mars did not say that PNC thugs from neighboring villages attempted to burn down a new built L-Shaped primary school in Non-Pariel.  The PPP gov't built another school like that in Rosignol. The attack on the school was repelled by residents who were not necessarily party members. One of the perpetrators died. The next the Buxtonians stopped a hire care and pulled out a woman with a young baby.  They soaked her with fuel and set her on fire. She was burnt alive.  Indians in Buxton were traumatized by this inhuman attack on a woman. Bands of PNC supporters celebrated and chanted 'One for One".  This incident would trigger off more attacks and counter-attacks. 

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

It's easy to get Carib riled up ..  just talk about race.  Mars gave a one-sided version of the violence that affected the country in the sixties.  As a former Buxtonian who knew the Sealy very well I can say that alot has been left out of the story.  Mars did not say that PNC thugs from neighboring villages attempted to burn down a new built L-Shaped primary school in Non-Pariel.  The PPP gov't built another school like that in Rosignol. The attack on the school was repelled by residents who were not necessarily party members. One of the perpetrators died. The next the Buxtonians stopped a hire care and pulled out a woman with a young baby.  They soaked her with fuel and set her on fire. She was burnt alive.  Indians in Buxton were traumatized by this inhuman attack on a woman. Bands of PNC supporters celebrated and chanted 'One for One".  This incident would trigger off more attacks and counter-attacks. 

I always maintain that there was violence from both sides unlike the one sided picture you and many others here try to sell.

@Mars

Re: the killing of Eustace Waldron at Perth Mahaicony in June 1964. His father, who was pastor of that village's Pilgrim Holiness Church, was thereafter reassigned to the Uitvlugt Pilgrim Holiness Church. As a young teenager I attended services in that church 1965 to 1966. I was the only Indo worshipper. One Sunday after service Rev Timothy Waldron and his wife invited me to their living quarters for a snack. I noticed two shiny souvenir brass artillery shells with a list of countries where the pastor fought as a member of the British Caribbean Regiment during the First World War. To this day I consider it a blessing & privilege to have met a WWI survivor. 

On their wall hung a framed photo of the Waldrons' son Eustace. I asked about him and they related how he was killed the year before in an unprovoked attack at their home in Mahaicony. Mrs Waldron was shot too but survived. She showed me her arm and invited me to touch the spot where a bullet fragment was still lodged. An indelible memory for me. Such senseless violence and killing of innocent & peaceful folks perpetrated by PPP & PNC supporters throughout the coastland. Truth is truth.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

It's easy to get Carib riled up ..  just talk about race.  Mars gave a one-sided version of the violence that affected the country in the sixties. 

Mars RESPONDED to the one sided notion of the 60s by pointing out the views of the other side.  This shows that the man is trying to be objective.

It will be best if you also admitted that this coin from the 60s has two sides, each radically different.

And yes I will be "riled" up when I see you and the rest of your Indo KKK clan peddling lies.  When you stop doing this maybe I might even stop posting on GNI as the rest, which is usually about "anti man business" is quite boring.

Gilbakka posted:

@Mars

. Such senseless violence and killing of innocent & peaceful folks perpetrated by PPP & PNC supporters throughout the coastland. Truth is truth.

Despite this the Indo KKK and the PPP wish us to discuss only one side, including their outlandish assertion that the PNC deliberately set out to kill Lindeners returning to McK.

If they wish blacks/mixed to respond to this and to incite even further tensions than we already have they are doing an excellent job.  I am not sure how this helps their cause though.

Gilbakka posted:

What happened at Wismar in 1964 was a heinous tragedy but, given that only 5 persons were murdered, the word "massacre" is not apt..

What a pathetic "get out of jail card for free" from a bunch of PPP stalwarts who oversaw the killing and brutalization of the Indian masses.  You old Commies were more interested in running behind the hammer and sickle and naming your kids Che and Fidel than ensuring the interest of the masses and Guyanese were best serve.

The PPP punted by saying it was not too bad, so you move the goal post to make an "F" appear a "C".  This mentality is why the demise of the Indian masses was a foregone conclusion.  My uncles were correct about the PPP back then, "pathetic!"

caribny posted:

Sheik101 posted:

This is a topic best suited for carib. He'll start off with the sun chapman.. 

And why not.  But of course you think that blacks are stray rats, best off dead so who cares what happened there.

My dear Carib, how do u know what I think, and why would I think that blacks are stray rats better off dead. Never once have i promoted racial disharmony on the board so cut the crap. What I said was, this was a topic best suited to u and that u would begin with the sun chapman and I was right. Dont think that every indo guyanese is a racist, especially when u have no evidence to support such a belief.

caribny posted:

Gilbakka posted:

. I think the group should conduct its "research" and list the names of casualties to justify the word massacre.

 

. And Linden has already demanded a re-examination of the Son Chapman incident.

Go ahead!

The Son Chapman attack was well orchestrated, meticulously planned and executed.  It was carried out by professionals who had some degree of command and control.  It was intended to cause mass casualty and instigate a race war.  Who ever did it calculated it's impact.

If the PPP had planned that, they would have expected the backlash where there were thousands of Indians with no protection except an Afro-dominated, lightly armed police force.  There was no contingency plan for the protection of the Indians in the area.

Guyana Afros have a psyche, a default position, when in doubt, go after the Indian.  This mentality is alive and well even to this day, because you got away with it before.  This is why Fineman felt free to slaughter people in Lusignan as revenge for his missing girlfriend!  I don't know, so blame the PPP and go kill some Coolies.

This is the one area where I will always side with BJ and his group for kicking you in the teeth!  I do believe they waited to long!

You knuckleheads on both sides of the fence need to chill and drink some mauby....and try to find ways to bring people together rather than finding ways to ethnically cleanse Guyana of the other race.

Rehashing the past will not build a better future, especially since the two major races are now poised to enter an election in 2020 that might prove to be more problematic and violent than any one before this. 

Those folks in Canada dont look like they are professional researchers but we should recognize their right to want to know what happen because it seems to me like they have some close connection to the event. Seems like their motive is one based on therapy rather than a desire to record history. Gilly is right, the word "massacre" can be seen as a willingness to blame others and play the role of victim...

I vaguely recall also that one of the first things Granger did was to pledge to build a memorial to the Sun Chapman tragedy. But, If Carib and others feel this way then that is their truth, just like the people in Canada.

ADMIN - YOU SHOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD.

Sheik101 posted:

caribny posted:

Sheik101 posted:

This is a topic best suited for carib. He'll start off with the sun chapman.. 

And why not.  But of course you think that blacks are stray rats, best off dead so who cares what happened there.

My dear Carib, how do u know what I think, and why would I think that blacks are stray rats better off dead. Never once have i promoted racial disharmony on the board so cut the crap. What I said was, this was a topic best suited to u and that u would begin with the sun chapman and I was right. Dont think that every indo guyanese is a racist, especially when u have no evidence to support such a belief.

"My dear Carib" taraasssss.

Baseman posted:

The Son Chapman attack was well orchestrated, meticulously planned and executed.  It was carried out by professionals who had some degree of command and control.  It was intended to cause mass casualty and instigate a race war.  Who ever did it calculated it's impact.

If the PPP had planned that, they would have expected the backlash where there were thousands of Indians with no protection except an Afro-dominated, lightly armed police force.  There was no contingency plan for the protection of the Indians in the area.

one small problem with this effort senor Baseman

at the time of the Sun Chapman bombing (July 6), because of the Wismar pogrom, there were very, very few Indo-Guyanese left in the area after mass evacuations in late May

in fact, the spasm of revenge violence on the night of the bombing, resulted in the murder of five intrepid souls who came back

and wha happen to your "race war" ordained by these mysterious,  meticulous "command and control" professionals?

it's nice watching you trip all over yourself with the malignant dishonesty. . .  may you choke on the next dutty effort

caribny posted:

Gilbakka posted:

. I think the group should conduct its "research" and list the names of casualties to justify the word massacre.

You are a naïve man.....

Agreed!

cain posted:

Sheik101 posted:

caribny posted:

Sheik101 posted:

This is a topic best suited for carib. He'll start off with the sun chapman.. 

And why not.  But of course you think that blacks are stray rats, best off dead so who cares what happened there.

My dear Carib, how do u know what I think, and why would I think that blacks are stray rats better off dead. Never once have i promoted racial disharmony on the board so cut the crap. What I said was, this was a topic best suited to u and that u would begin with the sun chapman and I was right. Dont think that every indo guyanese is a racist, especially when u have no evidence to support such a belief.

"My dear Carib" taraasssss.

Sheikh is using diplomacy to bring harmony. 

I. Hope that's all Sheista doin...kinda got worried he might be doing a lil funny walk with one limp hand  an ting...hehe