Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Why was the killings of 8 or 9 people at Lusignan called a massacre?

It was wrongly called so. Many Guyanese use words loosely. 

Gil,

Only 69 people were killed by police in the Sharpville massacre of 1960.  This occurred just three weeks after 9 police officers were killed by protesters in Cator Manor.  How do we determine what constitute a massacre with regards to number of people killed and motives behind the killings?

Defining massacre is subjective indeed. No hard and fast quantity. Although a big number of deaths is generally involved, in the case of sparsely populated Guyana I am willing to concede now that the disputed word could be applied, relatively speaking. I withdraw my objection. I hope Dave reads this. PEACE.

Sheik101 posted:

This is a topic best suited for carib. He'll start off with the sun chapman.. 

Bai Sheik, I saw Carib made you look like a prophet!

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

Their statements are incorrect.

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

I have always said that the two most racists on this site are these two. They have the balls to call coolies Indian KKK.

skeldon_man posted:

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

I have always said that the two most racists on this site are these two. They have the balls to call coolies Indian KKK.

tantrum bai(s)?

why exactly again is it out of bounds to (highly) suspect PPP rogue agents of guilt in the terror bombing of the Sun Chapman?

the May 25 pogrom is credibly linked to PNC elements as revenge for stuff happening on the Coast

there is a LOGICAL revenge pattern (not without evidence) that leads to elements in the PPP as responsible parties in the tragedy at Horadia

the fact that over the years much time and effort has been put in by Freedom House to peddle easily debunked, illogical nonsense linking this act of mass murder to the PNC and pointing assiduously away from any hint of PPP is a sure fire marker for guilt

just look at the confusion, the lies and the wailing on GNI just because the ‘sacred victim’ PPP narrative has developed some unexplainable, gaping holes

hmmmmm . . .?

me is jus wan individual with wan torchlight

tek a seat you dutty-minded, panic stricken con men

Just look at this shameless clown. 

Oh rass Baseman, doan bring Trump into dis conversatiin 

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on. 

and i wish you would . . . "confront" that is

with something OTHER THAN hysterics, batty shaking, neruesque name calling, pelt n run cowardice, and racial mendacity

bring it ON you fraud!

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

He might have become a senior minister in the junta!  Many perpetrators were rewarded after 1964.  

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

Robert Jordan. He became Burnham's first Minister of Agriculture in 1964.

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

in the days leading up to the May 25 pogrom, he was a known PNC figure ID'ed riling up the gathering mob with "reprisal" talk against  Indians

i have no reason to doubt the accounting of the Wismar Commission where this is concerned

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

Mits, I read somewhere that Jordan was seen directing the hooligans & looters by witnesses. I haven't read the official Wismar report but I won't be surprised if his name is mentioned there too.

ronan posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

in the days leading up to the May 25 pogrom, he was a known PNC figure ID'ed riling up the gathering mob with "reprisal" talk against  Indians

i have no reason to doubt the accounting of the Wismar Commission where this is concerned

correction "inchoate"

I remember his name mentioned by my parents as a key anti Indian terrorist with lots of blood on his hands.  Burnham’s Totenkopf, handsomely rewarded.  Lessons learned, crime does pay.  Mentality alive and well today!

Gilbakka posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

Mits, I read somewhere that Jordan was seen directing the hooligans & looters by witnesses. I haven't read the official Wismar report but I won't be surprised if his name is mentioned there too.

Yes, I remember him now. He was scary looking with bulging eyes, ugly and without a smile. He was pushing for the planting of corn and soya beans in the Canje Creek. Dem thief out de American money and the projects failed. Reid was his deputy. Is Winston Jordan related to him?

Mitwah posted:

Yes, I remember him now. He was scary looking with bulging eyes, ugly and without a smile. He was pushing for the planting of corn and soya beans in the Canje Creek. Dem thief out de American money and the projects failed. Reid was his deputy. Is Winston Jordan related to him?

I don't know if Winston is related to Robert Jordan. And yes, Robert's ugliness was much talked about. He lived in Agricola Village or thereabouts.

Gilbakka posted:

Mitwah posted:

Yes, I remember him now. He was scary looking with bulging eyes, ugly and without a smile. He was pushing for the planting of corn and soya beans in the Canje Creek. Dem thief out de American money and the projects failed. Reid was his deputy. Is Winston Jordan related to him?

I don't know if Winston is related to Robert Jordan. And yes, Robert's ugliness was much talked about. He lived in Agricola Village or thereabouts.

He is not responsible for his looks, he IS responsible for his actions, dwell on that!

Mitwah posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

Mits, I read somewhere that Jordan was seen directing the hooligans & looters by witnesses. I haven't read the official Wismar report but I won't be surprised if his name is mentioned there too.

Yes, I remember him now. He was scary looking with bulging eyes, ugly and without a smile. He was pushing for the planting of corn and soya beans in the Canje Creek. Dem thief out de American money and the projects failed. Reid was his deputy. Is Winston Jordan related to him?

Is that where the word Jordanite originated from? It was a scary black person in Guyana.

Leonora posted:

Mitwah posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

How was he associated?

Mits, I read somewhere that Jordan was seen directing the hooligans & looters by witnesses. I haven't read the official Wismar report but I won't be surprised if his name is mentioned there too.

Yes, I remember him now. He was scary looking with bulging eyes, ugly and without a smile. He was pushing for the planting of corn and soya beans in the Canje Creek. Dem thief out de American money and the projects failed. Reid was his deputy. Is Winston Jordan related to him?

Is that where the word Jordanite originated from? It was a scary black person in Guyana.

We use to think that all the Negroes with long beards were Jordanites and they kidnapped children to kill them. I think this stemmed from some incident where a child was kidnapped by Jordanites(not sure) and killed as a sacrifice. I think this was a case where Forbes Burnham represented the woman. I believe she got the death penalty. Wonder if Gilly or someone else remembers this.

Sheik101 posted:

. Dont think that every indo guyanese is a racist, especially when u have no evidence to support such a belief.

I don't recall you defending D2 when he tried on TWO occasions to start discussions about Indian racism and its role in Guyana.  He was not only branded a racist but virtually called an "Indian Killer".

In fact you could have suggested that Wismar was but one of several acts of brutality in this era. Instead you blew your dog whistle.

Baseman posted:

 

If the PPP had planned that, they would have expected the backlash where there were thousands of Indians with no protection except an Afro-dominated, lightly armed police force. 

I think that you have already said that the PPP was quite willing to sacrifice the Indian masses in their attempt to stir up racial tensions.

They do this even today.   I am of the opinion that this topic is resurfacing a few weeks before the LGE and not too long before campaigning for 2020 begins for a reason.  Another in their plot to terrify Indians and if a segment of the black population condones violence then their plan succeeded.

Dave posted:

Dave posted:

---

 

T

 

 

 

Dearest Carib, were you one of them waiting at the other end to receive the dinamite, for the purpose of killing Indians. 

In 1964 I was 7.   Continue to believe the nonsense that people in GT. where explosives were hard to get, would risk being caught moving it to McKenzie where piles of explosives were readily available. According to Eusi there were already rumors that one of these boats was going to be blown up so you bet the police would have been monitoring the situation.

These stinks of a PYO plot to attack a site where scores of blacks and blacks only would die. All part of Cheddi and Janet Jagan's evil plot to kill off as many Guyanese as possible to force the British gov't to cancel the elections that they knew that they would lose.

Janet Jagan concocted this nonsense as she loved to make herself a martyr, as if she was Joan of Arc.   There was a whole discussion of this. I bet that they laughed her out of the room.

Iguana posted:

 

The effort to rehash this now roughly 2 years before the 2020 elections might be strategic on the part of the PPP. 54 years later they are doing "research" and by the time they are done you will hear 6 million indians were killed in a holocaust! smfh

They will continue to scream that terrorists in McKenzie were being supplied by dynamite shipped from GT.

They will tell us that 2,000 Indians and only 20 blacks were murdered in this period.  That Indians were chased out of black villages but blacks were welcomed to remain in the Indian ones.

Their nonsense would be more credible if they told us that terrorists working in the bauxite industry in McK were stealing dynamite for shipment to the coast. But they rather tell the lie that terrorists in GT were shipping dynamite to a place packed with piles of it.

Demerara_Guy posted:

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

Their statements are incorrect.

And why would anyone bring dynamite TO McKenzie?   It should be taken FROM McKenzie.

So the PPP X-13 nonsense is just a dangerous lie to cover up PYO savagery.  They want to define the 64 violence as only about Wismar and how can they when MORE people died on the Sun Chapman than in Wismar.  So of course they want people to believe the lie that the PNC did that too.

Yes the PNC passing through patrols of British soldiers and others risking being apprehended when stealing dynamite in Mckenzie was more easily accomplished.

skeldon_man posted:

Baseman posted:

The false narrative of the likes of Caribj and Ronan needs to be confronted head on.  They continue to peddle the narrative that it was PPP/Indians who blew up Son Chapman.  This is their way to print their version of history and blame the victims.  There liars know it’s inaccurate but they boldface.  

I have always said that the two most racists on this site are these two. They have the balls to call coolies Indian KKK.

Please don't flatter yourselves. We don't call all Indians KKK. We call the TWO OF YOU and a few others this.  Ray, Django and many others have never been included in this categorization.

@Former Member

Re: Jordanites

https://www.encyclopedia.com/r...-releases/jordanites

skeldon_man posted:

We use to think that all the Negroes with long beards were Jordanites and they kidnapped children to kill them. I think this stemmed from some incident where a child was kidnapped by Jordanites(not sure) and killed as a sacrifice. I think this was a case where Forbes Burnham represented the woman. I believe she got the death penalty. Wonder if Gilly or someone else remembers this.

"negroes". SMFH. From the link Gilbakka posted re the Jordanites

"Their beliefs combine Hindu (reincarnation), Jewish, Christian, African and occult elements."

Skeldon man gon get he just desserts when he ole ass dead and come back as a "jurdnite". LMAO.

@Former Member

I don't know about any court case in which Burnham the lawyer represented a Jordanite woman charged with kidnapping & sacrificing one picknee. Around 1969 when Burnham was Prime Minister and had ceased practising law, there were rumours of a missing child being kidnapped & sacrificed. I can't remember the outcome. 

I think there is an unwritten freedom in all of Guyana's constitutions from pre-independence to present --- the Right to Rumour. Rumour mongering with impunity is a way of life among many Guyanese. People's futures have been destroyed, people were killed because of rumours. The 19th century Angel Gabriel riot in GT was sparked by rumour. Rumours also played a role in subsequent riots that resulted in loss of life & property. Be wary of rumours.

Gill,

There was a kidnapping of a female child in the precincts of CI School,in the early sixties.

Have to have a chat with my brother who that child was related to,I can recall the family just want to confirm.

Django posted:

Gill,

There was a kidnapping of a female child in the precincts of CI School,in the early sixties.

Have to have a chat with my brother who that child was related to,I can recall the family just want to confirm.

Me remember this being talked about, at that time at Catherina, but me cant remember how it ended. The whole country was so tense, that people were afraid to even mention names.

In 1980, I took an audio copy of the Jonestown movie and while listening with a person related to the Jagans in GT, his wife stood by the window, watching outside for the entire time. She was so afraid and they eventually moved to another country.    

Django posted:

Gill,

There was a kidnapping of a female child in the precincts of CI School,in the early sixties.

Early sixties = before disturbances = before 1969. I don't know about that kidnapping.

Tola posted:

Me remember this being talked about, at that time at Catherina, but me cant remember how it ended. The whole country was so tense, that people were afraid to even mention names.

In 1980, I took an audio copy of the Jonestown movie and while listening with a person related to the Jagans in GT, his wife stood by the window, watching outside for the entire time. She was so afraid and they eventually moved to another country.    

this is a scattershot meditation on fear

contextually, to what end . . .?

Innocent blood…Guyana’s brutal history of child killings

Sep 04, 2017

https://www.kaieteurnewsonline...y-of-child-killings/

Last Saturday’s shocking murder of 18-month-old Ronasha Pilgrim is the latest in a line of heinous child murders in Guyana.
Some include the ritualistic killings of children.
One of the most infamous cases occurred in the fifties in the quiet little community of Stanleytown, New Amsterdam.
It allegedly started when a woman, Kathleen Fullerton, dreamed that a demon-like man told her that there was Dutch gold buried in her backyard. The man in the dream told Fullerton that she could get her hands on the gold if she sacrificed a child.
Kathleen Fullerton consulted with her husband, Edward, and her brother, Eric Benfield.
They soon identified their victim: five-year-old Lilawattie, who was the daughter of Eric Benfield’s land-lady.
With the help of his sister, Kathleen and her husband Edward, Eric killed the child and hid her in his apartment.
However, the landlady soon realised that her daughter was missing and a search was launched for the missing child.
One woman, who remembered the case, said that the culprits hid the dead child under their mattress when the child’s mother came to their apartment to see if Lilawattie was there.
When they thought that the coast was clear, they dumped the body in a nearby latrine.
However, suspicion fell on them, and police eventually searched the larine and recovered the body.
For that crime, Eric Benfield, Edward Fullerton and his wife, Kathleen, were all hanged.
But Guyana’s most heinous child murderer was Harrynauth Beharry, 30, a weeder and fisherman. He also went by the name Harry Rambarran, alias Charles Bissoon, alias Charles Pereira, alias Anant Persaud and Maka Anant.
Between 1969 and 1970, he killed at least eight children in every county.
Pretending to be a handyman in search of work, the nondescript man went into villages for his victims. They were then abducted, bound, and thrown into trenches.
All of his victims, except for the first, were boys.
The first victim, eight-year-old Basmattie, of Anna Catherina, West Coast Demerara, was found in a canal in Bushy Park, East Bank Essequibo in April, 1969.
The other victims included an Amerindian child, found in a canefield at Turkeyen; David Bacchus, 15, Mohamed Fazil Nasir, 11; Mohamed Faizal, 12; Jagdeo Jagroop, 14, Mohamed Nizam Ali, ten-year-old Harrinarine, also called Paulton, Orlando Guthrie, seven.
The killer was eventually captured in June 1970, in Charlestown. However, Berharry hanged himself in prison before his trial could begin.
In 1993, a man named was Michael De Noon. somehow got it into his head that he could acquire a US visa if he sacrificed his newborn daughter, Mary, to the ‘spirits’.
Reportedly acting on the advice of a female ‘spiritualist’, De Noon forced his wife to take their baby in the dead of night to a desolate spot at the Lamaha Canal. He then muttered an incantation, threw some money in the still black water, and strangled his baby daughter.
De Noon dumped the corpse into the water. He then forced his wife to accompany him to a city hotel.
But while he slept, the woman sneaked out of the hotel and went to the police. She then took detectives to the spot where Michael De Noon had disposed of his daughter’s body. De Noon was arrested and charged.
He succumbed to illness in prison.
Another suspected and still unsolved child sacrifice occurred in September, 2003.
Nine-year-old Daniel Netram.
called ‘Jackie Chan’, disappeared from his home at Brickery, East Bank Demerara.
He was reportedly last seen alive when he and a brother went to fetch water a short distance from their home. But instead of returning home, Daniel reportedly told his brother that he was going to visit a man known to the family, who lived in Brickery.
The lad’s mutilated body was found four days later in a latrine aback of an abandoned property.
The corpse bore three stab wounds to the chest and one behind the neck. His left arm was severed at the wrist and his head was shaven.
Detectives believe that the boy was murdered by an East Bank Demerara couple, on the orders of an ‘obeah man’, who said that offering the lad as a sacrifice would rid them of an incurable disease.
Police reportedly acquired a statement from a woman who claimed that she witnessed when the lad was killed, mutilated, and placed in a bag.
Acting on this information, detectives arrested a woman, her husband and a so-called ‘spiritual healer’ from Greater Georgetown.
Two people were charged with Daniel’s murder, but the case against them was dismissed.
Then there was 25-year-old Oral Hendricks, who is 1992, murdered three small children: Jason Braithwaithe, seven; Althea George, four; and Travis Bunbury, aged two.
That happened after his reputed wife left him for several months to take care of her three children.
According to police records, on the night of Saturday, December 12, 1992, Hendricks took his reputed wife’s three children to a canal in Depot Dam in Pouderoyen, East Bank Demerara.
It is alleged that Hendricks flung two-year-old Travis Bunbury into the canal and watched the child drown. He then did the same to the boy’s four-year-old sister, Althea George.
Finally, Hendricks dumped seven-year-old Jason Braithwaithe into the canal, but the child managed to swim to the other end.
Hendricks, it is alleged, pursued the child and slit his throat with a knife. He then held the child’s head underwater to ensure that he was dead.
The following day, Hendricks went to a brother’s home in Depot Dam, Pouderoyen, where he told his sibling what had transpired.
Hendricks was charged, convicted and presently remains on death row.

Gilbakka posted:

Django posted:

Gill,

There was a kidnapping of a female child in the precincts of CI School,in the early sixties.

Early sixties = before disturbances = before 1969. I don't know about that kidnapping.

"The first victim, eight-year-old Basmattie, of Anna Catherina, West Coast Demerara, was found in a canal in Bushy Park, East Bank Essequibo in April,1969."

Cant recall exactly it was after the disturbances,will confirm with my older brother.

The above may be that incident.

Posted by Ronan.

The case of Lilawattie is what some of y'all 'reaching' for to POLITICIZE for all kinds of ignoble reasons . . . this is from 1949 and, yes, a young Forbes Burnham represented Kathleen Fullerton. She and her husband were both found guilty of murder and hanged in 1950:

"One of the most infamous cases occurred in the fifties [actually 1949] in the quiet little community of Stanleytown, New Amsterdam.
It allegedly started when a woman, Kathleen Fullerton, dreamed that a demon-like man told her that there was Dutch gold buried in her backyard. The man in the dream told Fullerton that she could get her hands on the gold if she sacrificed a child.
Kathleen Fullerton consulted with her husband, Edward, and her brother, Eric Benfield.
They soon identified their victim: five-year-old Lilawattie, who was the daughter of Eric Benfield’s land-lady.
With the help of his sister, Kathleen and her husband Edward, Eric killed the child and hid her in his apartment.
However, the landlady soon realised that her daughter was missing and a search was launched for the missing child.
One woman, who remembered the case, said that the culprits hid the dead child under their mattress when the child’s mother came to their apartment to see if Lilawattie was there.
When they thought that the coast was clear, they dumped the body in a nearby latrine.
However, suspicion fell on them, and police eventually searched the larine and recovered the body.
For that crime, Eric Benfield, Edward Fullerton and his wife, Kathleen, were all hanged."

Django posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Django posted:

Gill,

There was a kidnapping of a female child in the precincts of CI School,in the early sixties.

Early sixties = before disturbances = before 1969. I don't know about that kidnapping.

"The first victim, eight-year-old Basmattie, of Anna Catherina, West Coast Demerara, was found in a canal in Bushy Park, East Bank Essequibo in April,1969."

Cant recall exactly it was after the disturbances,will confirm with my older brother.

The above may be that incident.

Posted by Ronan.

Yes, this is the 1969 one. Now I know the outcome. Thanks, guys.

Gilbakka posted:

Prashad posted:

Does anyone know a political activist name, Jordan that was associated with the Wismar massacre? 

Robert Jordan. He became Burnham's first Minister of Agriculture in 1964.

I was told by an anonymous source that Jordon was fired by Burnham for harassing Dr. Jagan.  Burnham allegedly told Jordon that without Jagan there would be no Burnham before he proceeded to fire Jordon.  I don't know if this was true.