kARI started this thread about the PNC. We will deal with the PPP, as far as I am concerned they need to do more than apologizing, some of them ought to be in jail.

 

Race has certainly blind some of you. How the hell an apology by the PNC is apology from blacks to Indians?

Had a nice day in Brooklyn earlier and returned to a lost of contributions but basically more of the same. I haven't seen much original thought, except those of Kzaz and Chief, and KishanB. Jalil made a good point about the PPP missing a golden opportunity to reach out to Nagamootoo prior to the last elections, which I know is anathema to Jagdeo.

 

I'm heartened that there were no cuss-downs - thank Nehru for not making this important thread one to get the Admin's attention and thus the padlock was kept in their pockets (I must say I laughed at the post about the thread's IQ dropping 20% when Nehru made his first comment ).

 

Redux - I know that you can separate reality from passion. The thesis advanced is what does it take to change Guyana's governance by removing the PPP from power or forcing them to change, and the key advanced (no, not the AFC's key) is for the majority electorate body - the Indians - to lose the mistrust of the PNC. And how? The new PNC must divorce itself from the PNC period. You take umbrage with this as only the PNC must apologize and that we are not holding the PPP culpable. that's the whole point - we don't care about the PPP, we want them to lose, so why ask them to apologuize? They hold the upper hand. Samje? Reality!!!

 

Nehru, you also make the assertion that once a thug always a thug. Any allusion on my part that this is not your daddy's PNC draws the incorrect inference that I do not know slo-fiah, mo-fiah will emerge. I ask you to look at the reality of protests in Guyana in this day and age and see if that incentive still holds.

 

CaribJ, I see the same trait in Redux to unravel reality from passion. What about the PPP's electoral dominance escapes you? What about a blueprint that says pull the Indian vote away from the PPP and the combined opposition will force the PPP out is alien to your thinking? Why do you conjoin this tactic with an inference that I want to make Indians comfortable and giving the PPP a pass. You and Redux are the ones giving this PPP party a pass. Think about it. Chief says the same thing. Kzaz says the PNC cannot win by some fictitious street protest. Get into this century friend.

Its' on record my friend.

dude, when u want a proper response from me  . . . address me and my ideas directly

 

don't hide behind plenty useless, google psychology, ad hominen [same ol, same ol . . .] verbiage and conflation as a form of guerrilla 'warfare'

 

like chief and the lies . . . it's cowardly

Chief never run I am reading from the top coming down.

That is a LIE!!. . . what "record?!

 

as a big man, u ought to be ashamed of yourself

Yo hold your horses, STOP THE PERSONAL ABUSE.

Why are you behaving in such disgusting manner?

 

Granger is on record saying that there is nothing to apologize for the GDF actions during the 1973 elections.

 

 

he NEVER said what u said he said . . . LIAR!

What did he say?

ask chief . . . he is the one who posted the lie then attempted to change his mouth when i called him on it

 

if u know . . . BRING the bloody quote!

If I wanted to ask Chief, I wouldn't need you to suggest it.

that's your problem, not mine

Whatever comforts you.

uh uh . . . yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwn

Redux is worried that people don't want the PNC back in power. Redux is selling out Guyanese to the devil. He already get branded with 666.

aren't 'you' and 'nehru' supposed to be somewhere cosy engaging in some autofellatio action?

Don't get personal. Let's stay on topic.

....address me and my ideas directly

 

??????????????

 

don't hide behind plenty useless, google psychology, ad hominen [same ol, same ol . . .] verbiage and conflation as a form of guerrilla 'warfare'

 

like chief and the lies

 

?????????????????

 

 

Hey Stormy, you have competition in the most inane posts on GNI

I will very much like to see the PNC being part of a new coalition  Government

what "topic" . . . this?:

 

[cobra] "Redux is worried that people don't want the PNC back in power. Redux is selling out Guyanese to the devil. He already get branded with 666."

 

give it a rest antiman

You can call me all the names you want, but I notice you get beaten up all frigging day. Aren't you ashame?

And it is also plain and simple that if the PNC apologizes to Indians and doesn't address the issue that blacks in general and poor blacks in particular feel then they will LOSE votes.

 

The problem with people like you and Kari is that you have this habit of taking black people for granted.

 

If you want the PNC to win votes then they need to stop being the party of "NO", and start being the party of IDEAS.  IDEAS that will address the socio-economic concerns of ALL sectors of Guyanese.

 

If that is not enough to woo some Indians to their side then Indians deserve what they get.  The PPP!

 

 

 

 

 CaribJ, it's not about the Indians getting the PPP (what they deserve). They already got it. They ain't the problem. Indians will survive no matter what -whether they get the screws form Burnham or the PPP.

 

PNC's great ideas mean beans when Indians will always vote PPP. They are the majority, man.

 

The PNC can't address anybody's issues until they are in a position to. That is why the Indians losing this mistrust is the Key.

 

Got a problem with this logic?

If you ask this question you really don't know Guyana.  Why do you think that APNU got 41% of its votes, including maybe over 90% of the black votes?  RACE.  Ditto the PPP, so anything that either party does is seen through the lens of race.

So whats your issue because nothing out of your mouth is designed to help black people.

 

Just leave things as they are.  If G/town and its environs become over run by criminal gangs and a disaffected populace just let it be. I know that you think that  down town Kingston Jamaica, and parts of Port of Spain are wonderful and you just wish Georgetown and some surrounding communities to be just like them.

 

Just remember that not every one can afford to pay for militias.

 

By the way Indians aren't the majority.  We have two large minority groups, but you think that only one of them matters.

 

Work out the maths here.  The PNC grovels to Indians by apologizing.  They pick up a few Indian votes.  Large numbers of the black masses think that Granger is pulling a Hoyte or a Corbin, and so don't vote PNC.

 

Where does that leave the PNC?  I know the PPP will do anything to make black people stay home, and what you suggest will definitely guarantee that.

Kari you live in an Indo Guyanese world and are clearly not privy to much of the conversation going on.

 

1.  Africans of all classes feel threatened by what they see as social, economic and political genocide.  When they complain they are demonized, much as you and Chief are attempting to do to me and redux now.  Unfortunately for you this isn't Guyana, so your attempt to demonize falls flat.

 

2. A younger generation of Africans are now arising.  People who do NOT know what life in the 80s was all about.  They hang to the myths of the early 70s when black people were better off than they are today and they credit Burnham for it.  They view attempts to discredit Burnham as an attempt to discredit a black hero.

 

3.  Most of them don't care who is in power.  They vote PNC only because they feel that this is the only entity which they think can contain INDIAN power, and dominance.

 

4.  Telling them that most Indians aren't any better off falls on deaf ears.  they see a land of tremendous inequality with the money in Indian hands. Rural Indian poverty is too remote and not visible  to them.

 

BOTTOM line is that your suggestion about black people apologizing to Indians is dangerous, unless you balance it with a similar apology of Indians to blacks.

 

Or better yet, just abandon this whole apology nonsense.

 

APNU will get votes when they convince Guyanese of all races that, not only do they have ideas, but that they will use their power in parliament to IMPLEMENT these ideas, and to go to the people if blocked by the PPP.

 

Now if doing this means that they aren't going to get Indians support then they aren't going to get it any way.

 

 

 

 

1.   Guyanese  of all classes feel threatened by what they see as social, economic and political genocide.

 

 

2. A younger generation of Guyanese are now arising.  People who do NOT know what life in the 80s was all about.  They hang to the myths of the early 70s when black people were better off than they are today and they credit Burnham for it.  They view attempts to discredit Burnham as an attempt to discredit a black hero.

 

By you and Redux claiming that an apology by the PNC is an apology by blacks to Indians, you are feeding   Indians  the myth that every blackman was  bad and was a  a PNC member.  Do you see how dangerous is you your stupid assumption. I repeat you are no different than the PPP coolie racists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know most Indians already demonize black people as PNC supporters, and I don't even know if they are wrong when we look at the votes.

 

Chief. Most Indians vote PPP and most blacks vote PNC.  They vote because of RACE.  So quit trying to put lipstick on a pig and pretend that it is pretty.  If black people hear the PNC saying "we apologize to Indians" this will be seen as groveling to them. 

 

Most of those "Guyanese" of Indian descent voted PPP, so what is your point?  Obviously they are happy with them, or consider them to be the lesser of two evils.  Given that they voted for the PPP then they ought to be happy with what the PPP has done for or to them.  If they don't like what the PPP is doing then they ought to vote for some one else, even if it is a protest vote.

 

As an example I am incensed with how Cuomo is taking the NYC vote for granted as he tries to placate the suburbanites and Upstate.  I will register a protest vote for some minor party to send him a message that he shouldn't take my NYC vote for granted. 

 

Cuomo will soon have his sycophants telling us how horrible the GOP is.  This will not lead to me supporting his behavior when I don't.  We need to step beyond our fears.  I really don't care what the GOP says, because I don't like their policies, and they will not get my support until they change.  But this doesn't mean that Cuomo can terrify me to vote for him, when he isn't doing anything to earn my vote.

 

So if Indians don't like the PPP then they ought to register this by changing their voting habits.  If they don't they will get the PPP so ought not complain about that.

 

BTW you got my laughing when you imply that Guyanese as a whole look to Burnham as a hero.  You really ought to have checked your post before sending it.  No this mythology of Burnham is confined to his former cronies, and to a young group of black people who don't know any better, and who are yearning for leaders who they don't see existing in Guyana.

 

And now and Kari want the PNC to grovel.  Hmmm.  The PPP will be happy as this will ensure that the black vote is subdued, and given who blacks vote for the PNC suffers. All on the chance that groveling might win them a few Indian votes.

 

Silly idea. 

 

Why not demand that APNU develop strong policies which benefit Indian constituencies like the rice farmers.  This while they develop policies for the interior, Linden, the youth, etc.

 

I support this and have said so.  If this doesn't earn them some support from the rice farmers, then they ought to stop whining about how they are being treated.

Okay CaribJ so before I hit the sack and call it a night  let me pose a question to you.

 

We all know what  are the problems, come up with a solution.

 

You are saying no apology so how does the PNC MOVE FORWARD?  What must  they do to appeal to the average citizen to get them elected into office?

 

 

1994- I would concede the point that South Georgetown voted against the elite elements of the PNC because they felt neglected but Hammie did a good job of mobilizing the thugs vs Hoyte not working hard enough to bring out his supporters.

 

Hammie got 10,000 votes vs Hoyte 8,000.  Georgetown had 70,000 eligible voters at that time?

 

So what are you rally talking about?

 

The GT people did not come out in their numbers to vote - but the thugs did.

 

 

 

In 2006, it had nothing to do with Afro-Guyanese feeling marginalized.

 

Let the record books show that Afro-Guyanese are the more aware voters in Guyana, they are more likely to vote on issues than race; they are more likely to abandon the PNC if they find an alternative.

 

They had little confidence in Corbain in 2006 since many of them knew he was selling guns to Jagdehoe.  A fair amount went for Raphael Trotman in 2006 who at the time they saw as a fresh face who was prepared to put all on the table and even apologise for the excesses of the 70's and 80's.

 

So this destroys your theory that they do not want an apology.

let me parse your "logic" and deconstruct it so that the uninitiated can understand and not be fooled:

 

'Indians will always vote PPP because of people like y'all who so carefully cultivate the "mistrust" and the hate, demand apology from the weak and feed that demand and its fake 'justification' to the generations of Indo-Guyanese born after the death of Forbes Burnham or came of age in the era of PPP rule'

 

how else?

 

isn't it is interesting that all the proud Indo-racists on GNI, the posing PPP reformers here, and the execrable PPP Chronicle propagandists are of one will on this subject

 

this kind of stuff y'all engaging in is so mealy-mouthed, so racially tendentious and intellectually dishonest that it brings into sharp focus the skimpiness of the democratic, non-tribal bona fides being fielded by many AFC 'well-wishers' whose biggest disappointment is that Moses, Khemraj and Nigel et al did not play the role of PPP lite - designated polishers for the rough edges of Guyana's tribal hegemon

 

kishan/rev at least has the 'honesty' to cop to intent to destroy the PNC in at least one of the personality modes he 'entertains' us with on this BB

 

do Basil Williams, James Bond and the not insignificant multitude of visionless and corrupt clowns in APNU thrill me? . . . not really

 

truth be told . . . i am no fan of David Granger, but i don't regard him as a threat to democracy in Guyana either

 

if there is a genuine appetite to discipline the PPP by moving them to the opposition benches, i suggest y'all stop investing in dividing the people with sly appeals for sanctification of victimhood and expend your energies educating folks about the benefits of change, strong/independent institutions, coalition building, and divided government under a proper constitution

 

true democracy in the current dispensation can ONLY come about with the REMOVAL of the PPP from executive power - at least for a while . . . it is the only thing that can build momentum for true constitutional reform and bring a sea change in the way politics is conducted in Guyana

 

the AFC is key to this process . . . with all their faults, they are the essential ingredient

 

unfortunately, i am not optimistic regarding my appeal to abjure tribalism . . . i rather suspect that 15 years from now [God forbid the gangster regime is still in power], when the last of the old codger PNC leaders are long gone from the scene, the slightly less old-codger, 'former PPP' usual suspects here will still be wringing their hands telling a bewildered generation of Afro-Guyanese in the throes of insurrection that they need to apologize for Burnham as the price of Indo-Guyanese favor

 

the exercise of powah with all its contemp for the other . . . save us from these 'friends of Democracy'

BASEMAN ..........ANIL MOTHER IN LAW WUKING WITH THE SAME GDF, POLICE, CUSTOMS & CANU TO EXPAND DE COKE-IN-DE-POKE OPERATIONS OUT OF GUYANA.

In a country where politicians, on the one hand, determined to sustain distinct ethnic groups for vote banking but are faced with the reality that a significant of them little Kulli girls want a black balata especially in the environment where nuff East Indian boys are wasting their life away behind DDL (drink drunk and lie down), the nation is stuck with a new dispensation.

 

This new dispensation is a challenge for the politicians who wanted to stay in the racial camps - what to do with the mixed race who can swing politically anyside.

 

The PPP has been the first out of the blocks to embrace the mixed population with a great failure rate since these mixed people are more likely to be at the bottom of the economic ladder and blame the PPP for their economic situation.

 

The PNC has been most uninspiring since it is slowly but surely evoling to a party of pensioners (Hammie is more than a pensioner - he is 83 years old) and the new blood is not going to Congress Place after observing what they did to people like Aubrey Northon, Vincent Alexander, James Mac Calister, Sherwood Lowe who were all strong grassroots leaders.

 

The AFC to date is struggling to get its GREAT message out since some in that party is obsessed with control and thus continue to keep the party small.

 

So what is the young people to do?

QUOTE......The AFC to date is struggling to get its GREAT message out since some in that party is obsessed with control and thus continue to keep the party small. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Both Trotman & Ramjattan need to be reminded they had their chance ,,,,..and the BOTH failed to shake the PPP or PNC to really make a difference. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX If Moses & Ralph and those who want to clean up the PPP.......were to team up with Faith Hardine, Bulkhan and some of the young grassroot leaders in the PNC......................Trotman, Ramjattan, plus....PPP & PNC will all be history. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX And there will be need for any apology from PPP or PNC........or explination from Ramjattan Or Trotman.

Wow!

 

Are you Dr. David Hinds?

Old ways never die. The old sentiment of anything for power is alive and well among the Afro masses.  If not for the pressure of Jimmy Carter, the PNC would have happily carried on rigging.  They had perfected the art which had become their operating norm.  Brutalizing, abusing and oppressing Indians was simply, "law and order", PNC style.  We were viewed as an unwanted occupying force by Afros.  I repeat, this mentality is alive and well among Afros.

Actually we were better off with Burnham than with caribny and his racist mob mentality and street violence ultimate alternative.

what a dumb question . . . i don't even know the man

Interesting race bait tred. Theme of tred. Blackman bad have to apologise. Indian good and entitle to apology.