I do not know if there is a generalized sentiment that Hoyte failed the Black population by turning power over to the PPP without negotiating proper checks and balance to Power.  Only he could have unilaterally force constitutional changes that firms up the electoral system that is an institution existing outside political dictates.

He could for example made sure the PPP agree to a constitutional clause that compels local elections. Elections should never be at the whims of any administration.  He could have also demanded true republicanism before agreeing to elections. The Carter institute would have gone along with him. If there were local constituencies electing their representatives, the PPP could never make the demands for absolute control as the presently do. They could also not make the crooked deals the presently make.

Again, I do not know what Africans complain about that is considered to be the failings of the Hoyte regime before agreeing to transition to democracy. I say he was a complete fool and made a mess of things so we presently pay for his neglect with the elected dictatorship of the PPP. I agree is anyone complain he let his constituency down.  The PPP dominate the political landscape based on race and by definition the black population is their footstool.

No it is not speculation. It is a reality of what happens in societies as ours with our racially bifurcated political alliances and our racial demographics so closely aligned. 

Nat only the PNC will be prone to padding the ballots. The PPP has already begun to do so by recent stories of them forcing Amerinds to join the PYO.

Nigil Dharamlal rant about who Amerinds should align themselves with is also a sign the PPP will seek to conserve their political dominance by any means necessary. That Ashni, LUncheon, Shukai, should be present as that little stinker Nigil chastise Amerind leaders about their associations is evidence enough of PPP cheating.

The PNC Is a predominantly black party with less than a percent of others. Further, they should not apologize under any circumstance. It will solve nothing. This is not a casual remark but an informed remark based on what is key  to conflict resolution/conflict transformation. No one should accept blame. All should commit to being better.

5% is too high . It is most likely in one half of that.

You are very funny Kari. You have examples of the kinds of reactions of populations when the do not accept central authority and yet you lampoon the man to suggest that t his is possible in Guyana. It does not take the seventies or eighties or nineties. It takes a prevailing social condition that is percieved to be unjust.  Further, suggesting this kind of reaction is possible is not in anyway facilitating it or suggesting it is inevitable. It is just that it is a possibility with racially apocalyptic war for our society.

I do believe you are missing the general picture. This is not a formula only for black people. It is the pattern we saw in Ireland, Mauritania, Malysia, Indonesia, Fiji.  People, be they for religious or racial alienation, inevitably react violently against regimes they feel oppress them. It has also happened in the US. 

One does not have to establish a sense of ownership to see Hoyte made serious mistakes. The PPP are presently making the same. If the lose power the whole lot is due for a stint in the local jails and many of their ill begotten gains will be called into question. It is already stated the Marriott deal will not be honored so in event of a PNC win the Chinese investors are on their ass. They are investing with the hope t he PPP stay in power. Other deals are also hanging to the same tenuous thread. I agree with the position. If the investors want to make underhanded deals th en they endure possible loss of capital.

Once again, Hoyte knew of t he PPP base was race based. He knew that in event of them winning they will lost likely reward their own with access and advantages since that is what happens. He therefore did not take proper steps to ensure his charge get a better deal. He left them at t he mercy of predation and the PPP is doing all it can to make them grovel. Imagine not one black face represents us abroad. A drunken scoundrel got a post to one of th e largest democracies in the world! Yes, Hoyte screwed black folks and the PPP is presently failing Indians likewise.

QUit t he crap. Guyana never had a large vibrant Indian middle class. It had a large lumpen Indian and black underclass. Some 20 families owned all the wealth and the prospered in colonial times, during the dictatorship and still prosper as we speak. If drugs and political corruption did not add some of the lumpen mass to the pool they would still be the ones hogging the lions share of the wealth.

You are right about that.  In colonial Guyana the elites were the British/Canadians connected to Bookers/Demba.  Beneath them were the remnants of the Guyanese white population who had been leaving since WWII, when it became obvious that a changing Guyana/Caribbean meant loss of privileges.  Then were the Portuguese business community, and beneath them the "coloreds" and a few black upper middle class people and CHRISTIAN Indians like the Luckhoos, as well as the Chinese.

the vast majority of blacks and Indians were at the bottom.  Some slightly better off (African teachers and other civil servants and the more successful Indian land owners and small business people).  BUT neither were a factor, which is why when Burnham/Jagan got together they became vastly popular, and for a short time these two groups put aside their distrust for each other.  Of course it didn't last.

To most people in G/twn Indians were short under nourished ill clad people who they allowed in to cut grass in the yard so that they could feed their cows. Indeed African incomes were HIGHER than Indians, and even in the sugar industry blacks tended to have the better jobs.

The rise of the Indians came with the collapse of the economy in the late 70s and 80s, and the opportunities for wealth accumulation that was provided through the black market economy.

The fear that black people had, as long as I can remember (the early 60s) was that if Indians ever had power they would "drive black people into the sea".  As a young child I vaguely remember the angst that the adults in the household had about the PPP and the rage that they directed towards Janet Jagan who they saw as an unmitigated racist.

So even when Burnham began to go wrong people tolerated that, fearing that the alternative was Cheddi.  By the time they had irrefutable proof that Burnham was a monster it was too late.  So many packed their bags and fled, or at least did their best to get their kids out of Guyana.

Now scroll forward to 2014.  Many black people do think that the PPP and the 3% Indian elite have driven them into the sea.  Sadly many don't understand that the average Indian is no better off. 

Guyanese are among the poorest in the English speaking Caribbean, compliments of the PNC and the PPP.

Guyanese are the poorest people in the English speaking part of the world West Africa and Europe. There are no poorer English speaking people West of the Atlantic Ocean.

I don't want to have to rely on trust, I actually don't trust the PPP either.  What is needed is a constitutional hard-stop preventing and political party from co-opting the military to sustain their hold onto power against the will of the people.  I don't need an apology nor do I want to have to "trust" any politician.

??????????????

And you want to be taken seriously?

??????????????

Another rag-tag assemblage of words.

Why do you think "I used the phrase "true" minority party. They are under 50% barely. The PPP has to be a TRUE minority party not a one-seat less than 50% minority. Comprehension is still a problem for you.

"True" is redundant. A minority is any number less than 50%. What is there to comprehend in that that would make the meaning change? 

You are reduced to mirroring Nehru. If the grammar offends your, speak to it.  If the content galls you, point to the distaste. The above is just noninformational bilge.

Nehru I noticed you are quiet on this thread  but you still present. 

kari can't sensibly argue his points so he starts to buse off like some Bourda market woman, as usual.

Kari if you have a point make it. Leave that behavior to Nehru.

You had an idea, thinking from the perspective of an Indian who means well.  You didn't factor in how blacks will react.  You got it, so withdraw.  This apology will not achieve its goal, and might create more problems.

noninformational bilge......  

You are very funny Kari. You have examples of the kinds of reactions of populations when the do not accept central authority and yet you lampoon the man to suggest that t his is possible in Guyana. It does not take the seventies or eighties or nineties. It takes a prevailing social condition that is percieved to be unjust.  Further, suggesting this kind of reaction is possible is not in anyway facilitating it or suggesting it is inevitable. It is just that it is a possibility with racially apocalyptic war for our society.

Can you translate the above in plain English?    

Kari why don't you continue to defend your position that black people must grovel to Indians and stop busing like a market woman? 

Having done this for 20 years sadly so many think that this is all that life holds for them, and this according to David Hinds who spends a lot of time in the poorer communities.

Busing like a market woman doesn't suit you.  If you can't understand what stormborn wrote then you really need to question your ability to comprehend.

CaribJ why are you holding on to D2 coat tails?

He's now caribny....as if this will make him more meaningful....

Jamaican speaks on race in Guyana.  She makes valid points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEqcG79DjFU

I started to post before him.

You and Kari need to realize that if D2 and I agree on this point, and we have had serous arguments about race in Guyana, then it means that your idea is seriously flawed.  We definitely have different points of view.

Over the years you and I have agreed on more things than we disagreed, the same can be said about D2.

I am saying the both you and D2 are wrong to blame every blackman for the crimes of Burnham and a few others.

OK I see that we have a problem of interpretation here.

1.  Black people are seen as "PNC" and are punished by influential Indians, just as in the Burnham era Indians were seen as "PPP", and therefore seen by influential blacks as unworthy of respect as human beings.  This as revenge for the Janet Jagan era of the early 60s.  We are currently  in Round 3.

2.  Black people are already being punished because some seek revenge for the PNC. So Indians were punished under Burnham because of what Janet did (Round 2).  Now in Round 3 blacks are being punished for what Burnham did.

3.  I suggest that this issue be dealt with because the cycle of revenge will continue if it isn't.   We are in Round 3.  Let us prevent Round 4 of revenge if the PPP ever loses.  D2 made mention of this, and that seemed to be a relevant comment.

Despite what you and Kari think the PPP and the PNC are tools used by both groups as they exercise their fears of dominance by the other.  You cannot separate either race from the party which the bulk of them support.

And indeed look at the AFC.  In 2006 when Trotman was at the head he pealed off some middle class black and mixed votes.  He didn't pull in too many Indians.  In 2011 with Nagamootoo and Ramjattan at the helm they pealed some Berbice Indian votes, but lost some of the African/Mixed votes.  So don't tell me that Guyanese are innocent of the racial angst which cripples Guyana.  That is a cop out.

not clever at all dude . . .

perhaps u should stop announcing your "last post on this topic" and DO SO! while you still have some dignity left

Redux a good speaker holds his audience with 'I AM ABOUT TO CLOSE"

non~not

Informational~ on going process of knowledge transfer

Bilge~ contaminated effluent from the bowels of ships ie waste.

Hopefully your skills at concatenation is not stunted as well.

Firstly, the PNC is to the Indian, the archetype for the black man in Guyana as the PPP is to Indian. The fact that they oppressed all equally is never broached by the typical PPP supporter. To them the PNC banned dhal and flour to spite them. It is common parlance that Indian felt the PNC as the instrument of black people attempted to duglarize the population ie forcefully impregnate their daughters....I can go on listing the claims but I already listed them.

To say the PNC's apology would be to the Guyanese people is to say that pigs fly. To blacks it is irrelevant. To Indians it is affirmation to their claims against black people. It is essential food for their pathological state of chosen victims to the PNC.  It matters not what you say is is your intent or thesis for this apology. It will never serve that purpose.

Stormy,

I re-call on many occasions Dr. Jagan telling his supporters not to fight race. He  stated many times that the PNC dictatorship was an alliance between the Black Elite and the Wealthy Indians. He even went as far as attacking some Indians for judging Sam Hinds based on his race. PPP leaders often countered the racial argument by asking if, we as Indians can trust a man like Sir Lionel Luckhoo or Cammie Ramsaroop. 

Well wealthy Indians are definitely with the PPP now, as are fewer than 10% of the black and mixed voters.

Of course Cheddi didn't tell you why he kept all the blacks like Sam Hinds in a Bantustan called Civic, to ensure that the PPP remained in Indian hands, that is aside from Luncheon.

You would be shocked to know that many wealthy Indians are with the opposition parties. 

  So you are telling me that all that money that the PPP uses to campaign is STOLEN from the taxpayers! 

The PPP was astonished at the amount of money the opposition spent in the last elections. They were able to buy TV time on a record scale. Where they get all of this money is anyone's guess

The opposition spent very little money last time, and had to do almost nothing until the last minute.

The PPP trucked in thousands, had concerts all over the place, monopolized coverage on state owned media, ignoring the fact that 50% of the population have NEVER supported them, and yet their taxes support these entities. 

After the Rodney inquiery is over more than likely the commission will find the  PNC responsible for his murder. Some 30 years after Burnham's death where does his party stands. Is the PNC the same outfit it was in the 70's and early 80's? They have to redefine themselves and how can they do that.

You are saying with an apology the blacks will think it is irrelevant and the Indians will confirm their claim of fear, well too bad what they think because their sorry asses have not been thinking beyond race.The blacks and Indians in Guyana cannot see for themselves other than through colored glasses. That is why today Guyana is what it is, poor and still racially divided.

Two  intelligent attorneys made the first move by forming the AFC. iT WILL NOT BE AN EASY ROAD AS WE HAVE SEEN HOW THE ppp IS DOING EVERYTHING TO SMEAR THE OPPOSITION. bUT IT IS A start. Sorry for the caps.

The PNC need to clear their name now more than ever.

CaribJ and D2

Both of you are saying that the PNC is basically a black party and the PPP is an Indian party. Caribj went at length to prove his point by providing figures of racial voting from the last 3 elections.

So if the PNC is holding on to that amount of support then obviously they have a certain amount of control. What harm can be done to come clean , admit mistakes of the past and set a new agenda to move on?

mr chief, you know better . . . but rather than spend time educating people, u FEED THE FEAR and THE LIES!

they say truth is the first casualty of war . . . indeed!

you are simply another barefoot spear carrier in Guyana's low-intensity race war some of y'all of a certain age NEVER STOPPED FIGHTING

riding that mangy Robb Street dankey up and down GNI must give u quite a thrill