Satan:

Stop attacking the Coalition and start giving support to a fledgling movement in the right direction.

You have to operate on hopes and dreams, not on fears and mistrust. We are better together.

Because of lack of time this is a case of building the plane as you fly it.  Everything is time sensitive.

You have to trust that Granger is an honorable man and will keep promises.  If he does not, there will never ever be national unity initiatives again.  That will kill any future Coalition.  Moses and Ramjattan are not pushovers.  They are the best to work with the PNC.

So open your wallets and be a part of history as we install the new, improved APNU/AFC Coalition.

take their two platforms postings and if you find anything incompatible or lacking, comment....otherwise the above is plain pedantry. The point is the other side is an autocracy, under pinned by an indocracy of friends family and familiars ( and the other tribals  are screwed) and yet you do not bother with what the f.u.ck they have to offer.The self sameness of their offering of  necrotizing ethnic kleptocracy  is  completely untenable. Forgive my french. I am practicing vigorously having not had much practice recently.

Granger is not too smart giving up 12 seats to a party which will only contribute 2 seats to the Alliance, unless he plans to return Guyana to the Burnham daze, when you have to join the PNC to get a job.

Bhai, There is nothing in writing.  YUh gun see fireworks IF they win.

It's a pity that would happen because the PPP  will win once again.

The will retain power with a larger majority.

In negotiation, one always give and take. In this case he give to get a potential victory and the possibility to implement the changes he thinks is necessary. That is worth the seats since those to whom he allocates the seat concur with his vision.

Whistling for the usual dog in burnham is as usual a example of where PPPites have no bloody basis for an argument so retreat to the usual nonsense.

In the contrary, that is his problem.  he cannot think.  He should not have signed that accord because now the AFC lost all their Indian support.

Shaitaan Burnham died 30 years ago, and Corbin is no longer active.  When last have you seen any evidence that he is a factor?

So quit pulling up your notions of PNC violence.

Jagdeo is very active within the PPP and every one is aware of how violent and vindictive he can be.  So why not reference PPP violence unless you are continuing to peddle your Indo KKK crap?

Now as to the agreement.  Nagamootoo is in charge of certain aspects of governance, but it must be approved by Granger, as the President.  APNU is outsourcing much of the work to the AFC.  They are not removing themselves from final decision making.

Jay stop behaving like a pimp. Those who wish to support the coalition will do so.  Those who don't have no obligation to do so.  Obviously Shaitaan has misgivings about the coalition.  He is entitled to do so, not matter how paranoid his reasons might be.

As to you however, note that the topic of discrimination comes up frequently within APNU events and commentary.  Think within yourself as to what folks means when they refer to discrimination, and don't fool yourself that it is only about the PPP.

Distrust will exist within the coalition, if it wins, once the euphoria of a PPP defeat is over.  The Indian AFC types will have to tread carefully if they wish to avoid some asking whether one Indian dominated government is being exchanged for another.  Because what mobilizes black people is the notion of racism against them, and certainly NOT their love for APNU.

So very early within the coalition's administration, if it wins, the issue of Indian and African ethnic insecurity will have to be dealt with.

Please don't repeat any of your usual "kumba yah" nonsense as racial distrust is embedded within Guyanese and systematic racial discrimination is quite common place.  The PPP (and the PNC) only take advantage  of this, and even the AFC takes this fact into account (sending the black AFC leaders to the APNU protest earlier in the year).

JB, like the man pack wan bitch slap pun you? Bet you feel salty heh? Time fuh guh consult you mamoo now bai.

Merely curbing JB's irrational exuberance.  If he were a PPP then I would tell him to go and enter a lion's cage just when he was being fed.

There is BIG BIG risk with the Cummingsburg Accord, but which is better, a clean break with the APNU or 5 more years of Bharat tiefing?

I like Brian's question.

Do you want to see Goat man and lunch man on TV for 5 more years?

Do you want to see Shaatie and Chat3, and the fat cow for 5 more years? and Kwame? Lumumba?

Lord, help us.  Or, hear our cry!

Guys lets forget these little Goat Shit Issues and turn our attention to the real Problems & Issues facing the Rice Farmers & Rice Industry.....

https://guyana.crowdstack.io/topic/de...man-bread-and-butter

no, there is not . . . enough with the scaremongering

Just saying the other side is bad won't deliver governance. One has to work for it. Show how you're different in policies and vision. So far it's PPP (corrupt); APNU (fear of old rampaging PNC) and AFC (home of disenchanted PPP and PNC). I'm afraid I'm not seeing the new course for a Guyana from anyone and you know the PPP has the incumbency factor as well as money and organization.

dude, like many of the not-so-clever posers here, u were/are always a supporter of the corrupt PPP status quo

give it a rest with the fakeness

Redux chill Kari need to see and hear things like this....

i call it as i see it

Kari is a smart fellow . . . he does himself no credit with the flimsy, anti-common sense stuff he throws up to rationalize '4 more years' of mafiya PPP rule

he is not some low-information person that needs to be brought along

i see absolutely no need to waste my time on such a fool's errand

The Coalition has made several statements on policy.

Once you stop the thieving, there will be more money for national development projects with the working poor at the center of our focus, not trickle down economics of the parasitic bourgeoisie with the crumbs falling from the masters' tables.

In any coalition there is risk.  

The AFC and APNU most likely have different interpretations of this agreement.  The AFC likely over estimates the amount of latitude that they will be allowed to operate unilaterally by the PNC, should the coalition wins.  The PNC likely under estimates the fact that the AFC will see itself as a co partner and not as a junior partner.

This is especially as even WITHIN the PNC and the AFC there are different factions with their own competing interests.

Your response would look more intelligent if you agreed that there was risk, but that you predict that both Granger and Nagamootoo possess the political maturity to convey to each other, and to the various factions within their own parties that potential conflicts will be managed appropriately.

in most every real choice in life there is downside risk

on any rational scale, this one is low, and the potential payoff for Guyana is once-in-a-century transforming

the hysterics are, frankly, annoying

Such an idealist.  Listen there will be corruption within the coalition, as there is within any political system.  You hope that it will be less blatant than the current Grand Theft which the PPP is currently engaged in.

The "parasitic" bourgeoisie is going to fund both the PPP and APNU AFC, given that no one can predict who the winner will be.  They will exert significant influence, regardless as to who the winner might be. 

One can hope that APNU AFC will inspire confidence by operating with greater transparency than is the case with the PPP, reducing the levels of blatant crony capitalism which currently occurs.

The Coalition will have to do better because the PPP will be a strong Opposition.

how much you want the collation to do,is the guyanese dumb,blind and stupid,you voting for the ppp because of your race then you call your family overseas to send for you because things is bad.we will see how mature the guyanese become in this election,i say this election will make it of break it,if the ppp win guyana will become a full blown dictatorship 

Why is it low? 

Not that long ago there was so much contention within the PNC that physical blows were exchanged, and a gun was discharged.  And that was WITHIN the PNC. 

We heard rumors of similar, even if less dramatic tensions within the AFC.  Indeed HM_Redux ranted about how selfish the black AFCites were not that long ago.  This suggesting some tension between the Hughes/Trotman wing of the AFC and the former PPPites brought in with Nagamootoo.

Does this mean that there will be fighting from the beginning? Doubtful.

But obviously this is a coalition of people who were  formerly mortal enemies, and are only together as they feel that this is the only way to get rid of the PPP.  So to say that the risk is low is quite naïve. 

There will be some PNCites who will feel that Granger gave away too much, given that at least 80% of the votes will be won in PNC strongholds.

There will be some AFCites (former PPPites) who will retain distrust for a large segment of the PNC.

When Nagamootoo makes his various appointments expect rancor if PNC members think that the gov't is too AFC oriented, especially of Nagamootoo relies heavily on the PPP refugee wing of the AFC.

So there is definite medium to long term risk.

I read this and I don't see why Redux is having a heart attack.  There is no evidence of any support for the PPP here.  There is just pragmatism, and this is what rules the world, not idealism.

Indeed listening to summaries of the Linden even I think that you just about sum it up. 

I have yet to hear of any solution from the AFC as to how it plans to solve the problems of the rice and sugar industries. APNU mischievously carved those problems out of areas over which they will have control, so it will be an Indian vs. Indian battle if these problem remain unsolved.  I can already see Granger suggesting that folks must speak to Nagamootoo.

Redux the AFC will be responsible for agriculture.  Rice is in huge problems as is sugar.  With the softening of gold prices, those industries once again become quite important.

Tell us how the AFC plans to solve the problems faced by many on those industries?  A rabid AFC supporter like you must definitely know this.

alyuh try deh busying y'allself with petty what ifs, every which way whatever scenario speculations and hand wringing

perhaps if you had the intellectual wherewithal to step outside and see the big picture, u would understand (as i posted elsewhere) that what really matters is the overturning of the system we have lived with since 1964

this is bigger than the AFC, APNU, Moses, Khemraj, Nigel, Granger or PPP/Ramotar/Jagdeo for that matter

indeed sir, IT MATTERS NOT IF THE COALITION BREAKS UP AFTER WINNING OFFICE! what matters is letting the genie of new politics out of the bottle . . . something the status quo warriors are cleverly battling to prevent for as long as possible

best case scenario is a re-written constitution, meaningful coalition politics, transformative governance, properly independent, democratic institutions and the end of the criminal state . . . i'll take any one of those for a start!

looking at the potential upside . . . exactly what is the downside you envision that could be worse than what we have seen unfold before our eyes this past decade and a half?

how much more punctuation than Crum-Ewing! do you need?

am i clear now?

u give me too much credit bro . . . i am neither AFC insider, Nostradamus nor "rabid" (no foamin-at-the-mouth antibodies were found with my last blood test, thank gawd)

my post was about none of these things u throw up here

"fool's errand" simply references me declining to be in the 'winning over' business with smartman like Kari

why is that so hard . . .?

The Cummingsburg Accord is simply a personal general description of what may generally exist with the PNC and AFC merger.

The gist of the agreement guarantees the transition of former PNC members in the AFC to become full members again of the PNC.

Do you figure out this from your personal experience as a PNC engineer?

Redux, any sports team has reserves that play as hard as they can to sharpen the skills of the players who represent the team. The coach does not ridicule the reserves for pushing the team, it congratulates it. If there are people here who want to see the backs of this PPP Administration but want to make the team that is going to replace it as good as it can be or to give it the best chance to win, then praise them. Do not attempt to characterize your interaction with them as fool's errand. Appreciate the contributions for what they are, and not for what you want them to be.

Indeed praise the AFC. Praise APNU. Criticize the PPP. But face the reality of the challenges that Shaitaan and Caribny point out. The track record is there. The demographics are there. The Emigration pattern is there. The psychological factor is there. The race pathology still exists. The absurd irrationality is manifest. Put them all together and show the AFC-APNU coalition how to overcome these challenges. That's better than entreaties of wordy irrelevance.

My dear sir as you get stuck in the mud as usual, I am sure that even Granger and Nagamootoo have their own apprehensions about how the coalition will work, assuming that they win of course.  This is true of EVERY single coalition.

As to the new constitution.  Hmmm.  It was a PNC constitution, and enjoying the fruits of power I suspect they will not see changing it a priority.

Maybe the PPP may find Jesus, Allah, or whomever and suddenly realize that the constitution ill serves them as an opposition party.  But then I suspect playing mischief, with an aim to disrupt the coalition, will be their chosen method to get back into power.  The PPP will remain the party with the ability to get more votes than any other singular party, and so will have incentive to break up the coalition, or at least try to.

So being practical, and given that a 2/3 vote is necessary for a constitutional change, I suspect that you have a rather long wait for that.

The PPP and APNU will each win over 1/3 of the vote.  I really don't see these sworn enemies cooperating over anything.  The PNC fresh with power that they haven't had for over 22 years.  And the PPP being hysterical with rage that the PNC must have obviously "stolen" the election, as there is no way that they PPP can lose.  After all Guyana belongs to the PPP, so they think.

I suggest that APNU and the AFC create a more transparent way of governance, host LGE, and focus on providing a more inclusive economy less beholden to new money elites.

You certainly act as if you are rabid, the way you behave should any one say anything other than full gushing support for the AFC.  So it is natural to assume that you are fully aware of what the AFCs plans are. 

Does it not strike you as weird that one must be an insider to know what the AFCs plans are for the second and third largest industries in Guyana.  Especially as its relevance is totally tied to grabbing votes from those who earn a living in these industries.

If the AFC hasn't voiced what it plans to do, after it has already announced that it will handle agriculture, should the coalition win, then why will the AFC, or you, think that they will win support from rice farmers and cane cutters?

Redux is like the parent of a lazy child, who praises the kid, even when no homework is done, because he wants to show that he loves the child.

Redux needs to understand that constructive criticism helps APNU and the AFC much more than does pretending that they are perfect.

Shaitaan's hysteria reflects how many Indians think, and the AFC in particular, needs to be reminded of this as it will make them work harder and be more innovative in wooing these voters to its side.

I fear that some will look at the rumors of what the demographics are which suggest 40% Indian in 2012.  Yet the PPP only lost majority rule by 5k votes.  Obviously the Indian vote is much higher than census numbers indicate, for the reasons which Shaitaan and I have outlined.

The got 10% of votes from Blacks, Amerindians, Portughese and Chinese.

The 25,000 votes that the AFC received in 2012 have been lost and they are back in the PPP's camp. They know that the AFC cannot help them get a better life.  They knew that the AFC is all talk and no action.

kari, i regard what you and caribny are trying to do here as distorting and infamous

i came to this thread not to 'praise up' the coalition' as u would have people believe, but to:

(i) call out Jay Bharrat on his nonsense that embracing the coalition is a "big, big risk"

(ii) call you out on your weak, status quo defending "I'm afraid I'm not seeing the new course for a Guyana from anyone" . . . said with a straight face and all

what u are doing is in line with your old line that we should tolerate 4-5 more years of PPP mafiya rule . . . the stars not being aligned properly for change right now, etc., etc.

no sir, u are not "pushing the team" . . . you are undermining the coalition effort on the not-so-sly much as ksazma does in a more up front way

i will continue to call it as i see it . . . with all due respect

Moses will not be an effective home affairs Minister. The only experience Moses has is with spreading Propaganda as Information Minister with the PPP government. Don't tell me that he is a brilliant Lawyer, because he is not. 

he is involved in Politics all his like and has no  time to practice Law. 

Redux, friend......I encourage you to point out the distortions that Caribny and myself are propagating in this Forum, really! I'm not sure I understand the "infamous" characterization, as nothing I've seen in this thread or elsewhere relating to the Elections in Guyana as rising to the status of "infamous".

You have every right to praise the coalition, and I agree with praising the coalition, and the courage the AFC has displayed in shaking up the Guyanese polity, bastardized as it has been from since Adam and Eve (and now Steve ).

I maintain that the politics of the coalition represent a bold move but the overarching strategy called for patience - hence the 5 more years of mafia PPP rule. I advocate building a true 3-way polity with the AFC as a genuine peer of the PPP and APNU. Now if APNU maintains even 35% of the votes and the AFC gets 16% to 20% (which is where they can get going solo in 2015) then I shall have been proved wrong for calling for  one more cycle and not being bold enough. That's why they count votes.

I have no desire to impugn your right t call things for what they are; what I encourage you to do is to see what others are saying truly and not what you think they're saying. That's either a failure in my communications skills or it's on you.

. . . You have every right to praise the coalition, and I agree with praising the coalition, and the courage the AFC has displayed in shaking up the Guyanese polity, bastardized as it has been from since Adam and Eve (and now Steve ). . .

what's up with the non sequitur here (again)?

didn't i just address this kind of bogus argumentation in my earlier response?

What astonishes me about redux is how much time he spends attacking fellow anti PPPites.  Merely because they exercise a pragmatism while he is lost in idealism.

1.  The coalition is a risk.  Firstly because some of the PPP Nagamootoo voters who supported him in 2011 might vote PPP, or simply not vote.  Unable to bring themselves to voting for a PNC led coalition. 

Secondly because in any coalition there are always tensions between the bigger and more powerful party, and the smaller one. In Guyana it becomes even worse as some people like Nagamootoo saw some in the PNC as mortal enemies for most of their political life.

2. Kari has always spoken about Guyana's economy being taken to the next level.  He is saying that he hasn't heard APNU AFC plans for this.  Is there anything wrong with some one querying about Guyana no longer remaining a basic commodity producer, subject to all the vagaries of global commodity prices, over which it has no control? 

Indeed such plans will be what will excite young voters, as they will be the biggest beneficiaries should Guyana develop more vibrant manufacturing and service based export sectors, given that the population is much less rural oriented.

Bharrat, Kari, and Caribj MADE NO suggestion that any of us want to see the PPP again.  Bharrat is always begging for money for the AFC, and Kari and I offer constructive criticism. 

I feel confident that if either Granger or Nagamootoo engaged us in conversation, we would raise the same concerns, more diplomatically of course.  Indeed Granger seems to spend much of his time on meet and greet tours, and seems to listen to people.  I suspect of people offered suggestions in a polite manner he would listen to them.

BTW redux I saw a letter I one of the Guyanese papers condemning the murder of Crum Ewing.  I suspect that the Karimullah, who was one of the signers, is the same Kari who you are now claiming to be a closet PPP.

Kari can say whether I am right or wrong.