Carl Greenidge and Mark Benshop vs Former Venezuelan Ambassador and another Venzuelan.

It is worth the watch.

FYI: The former Venezuelan Ambassador lost his one eye in a home invasion robbery in Guyana.

The Jesus Venezuelan guy is  an idiot.  The Venezuelan claim is based on the 15th century Papal Bull when the world was divided between Spain and Portugal.  At no point during Guyana's colonial history did Spain, or for that matter Venezuela ever occupy that territory.

He claims that Venezuela wants Guyana back.  One cannot get back what one never got.  He screams that Granger is an Exxon employee.  This is about complete Madman paranoia.  So it is about US imperialism, and British colonialism, and every piece of lunacy that Maduro can concoct, while his people starve in the streets.

Benshop dealt with him properly 

Jesus had me cracking up.

No disrespect for the Greenidge,i think he is a liitle bit

slow in getting his message across.This is the first

time i listened to Mark,he is a good talker.

I think Greenidge did well...he keep kept looking up like he was reading from a teleprompter though....I was wondering if others were listening and feeding answers through a screen...not a bad idea if they did.

May be that is why i think he was slow,I met him at party in the 80's.

Guyana had fools talking on their behalf. What a load of crap on the part of Greenidge and Benchop. I commented the other day, that East Indians and Amerindians must be part of the solution. Instead they had two stupid blackmen talking sh1te. The Venezuelans have a case. Forbes signed a document which spelled out how to go forward-instead the governments of Guyana run to Caricom. The PPP had their assinine approach as well.

Venezuela was an independent nation in 1899, but under political turmoil. They registered their complaint about the settlement, but Anglo American sentiment were against banana republics. Guyana assumed control of a contested border. Guyanese people had nothing to do with it-it was the British.

Guyana has to face Venezuela in the court of law. Before that is done, a symposium must lead the effort. And Granger better start looking for Amerindians and East Indians to be part of the discussion. These dam black racists need to pull their heads out of their baxside. 

Just maybe, it is a divine way of teking away a country from a stupid people. These people honouring Forbes and the other camp honouring Cheddie. And dey doan worry about the living.

since 1966, when exactly were "Amerindians and East Indians not part of the discussion"?

and more to the point re Granger . . . who are "these dam black racists" you are talking about?

thanks

The two Venezuelan guys in the TV discussion say they are against Guyana taking the dispute to the World Court. According to them, the issue is not the validity or invalidity of the 1899 agreement; the issue is the 1966 Geneva Agreement which made allowance for certain mechanisms to be used.

When Guyana, Venezuela and Britain signed that 1966 agreement the then opposition leader Cheddi Jagan had warned that Burnham made a big mistake. Speaking in parliament on 17 July 1968, Jagan said: "Why was it necessary for the Government to sign the Geneva Agreement? Why did the British Government which, in our time, said that the matter was closed, agreed to the re-opening of the question at Geneva? Was it not to allow the Venezuelans to keep this question going, to be examined by a Mixed Commission until perhaps another election comes along which the PPP might win, fraud or no fraud?"

Jagan added: "When transfer of power took place [in 1966], the territory’s geographical boundaries which comprise Guyana should have been lodged with the United Nations. This is what should have been done by Britain. But now it would seem that our boundaries are still in a fluid state and the Venezuelans are interpreting this fluidity as they choose by occupying Ankoko and now moving into our territorial waters."

Shridat Ramphal said that the Geneva Agreement was a pre-requisite for Guyana achieving its independence.  From Odeen's History of Guyana:

The British Government, as stipulated in the Agreement, would remain as a party to it even after Guyana achieved independence

In the days after the conference concluded, there were intense discussions in the media in Venezuela, the United Kingdom and Guyana on the significance of the Geneva Agreement. Venezuela, for its part, saw the Geneva Agreement as the “reopening” of the border dispute, and Foreign Minister Iribarren Borges said that the agreement actually meant that the 1899 decision would be reconsidered. This position was rebutted by both the British and Guyana Governments who insisted that the controversy was really over the Venezuelan contention that the 1899 Award was null and void, and the Agreement was not aimed at cancelling the Award or revising the boundary.

Guyana and Venezuela – Peace under law

By Sir Ronald Sanders

 [An 1897 treaty obliged Venezuela and Guyana (then British Guiana) to accept the result of an 1899 arbitration, setting their present boundaries, as a “full, perfect and final” settlement.  The boundaries were accepted by Venezuela for 63 years until 1962, as British Guiana moved towards independence, when Venezuela claimed it was “robbed” by the arbitral award.  A 1966 Agreement, signed by the governments of Britain, British Guiana and Venezuela in Geneva and filed with the UN, acknowledged not a “border dispute” but a “controversy” based on the new Venezuelan assertion of nullity.
The 1966 Agreement provides for the resolution of the controversy by actions of the UN SG under Article 33 of the UN Charter.  After 49 years, including 25 years of the SG’s efforts at mediation and conciliation through a ‘good offices’ process, no resolution has been found.
The exhaustion of other options now leaves a ‘judicial settlement’ open to the SG.  Such a judicial settlement by the International Court of Justice would settle the issue peacefully, binding both Guyana and Venezuela.  That would be the peaceful, legal and internationally acceptable way to end the controversy once and for all, allowing the Guyanese and Venezuelan people to co-exist in peace and co-operate as neighbours for their own well-being and in the interest of their neighbours.]

Jesus is an ignorantr zealot.  Even the moderators (who in my opinion had a slight bias against Guyana) had to shut him down when he screamed about Granger being an EXXON employee, and ranted about US imperialism and British colonialism.

This is ironic as the only justification for this is because of Spanish colonial claims.  Well they might well claim all of Guyana, and Suriname at that rate.

Britain claimed up to the Orinoco River.  The USA assisted Venezuela in blocking this claim, and Venezuela considered itself the winner.

It is an anti communist plot by the CIA and a right wing regime which "reactivated" the claim in the early 60s against Jagan, and again in the 70s against Burnham.

Madman "reactivates" it now as it is a forgone conclusion that the former Chavez supporters consider Maduro to be a huge disappointment, so will not vote for him.  He must seek diversionary tactics, but apparently many/most Venezuelans aren't buying it.  Like the woman said, she grew up being told that Guyana is different, the claim complicated, and that it is better to just leave it alone.

1.  One of the "stupid" black men is the Minister of Foreign Affairs.  Like him or not, but he is the spokesperson.  I guess you would have preferred Rohee. How do you know that Mark Benschop wasn't invited by the program hosts.  He is NOT a friend of APNU, and so they would NOT have selected him.

2.  More Indo KKK rants as Africans aren't fit to represent Guyana.  Thanks for confirming that you think that we are sub human savages unfit and stupid.

3.  And what exactly did the "two stupid blackman" that was wrong, aside from merely being black?  Benschop put the silly Venezuelan in his place, and forced the moderators to stop promoting Venezuela's interests.  They insisted in asking Greenidge to define a future point, and didn't give him a chance to provide a background.  They wanted a sensational reaction from him, which of course would then give Maduro an excuse to provoke an invasion.

4.  Why don't you focus on the Venezuelan idiot, or do you see through him, the return of the PPP?

Just additional Indo KKK rants made by seignet, which of course will be ignored by "moderates" like VVP, Kari and others.

Really these guys need to worry that African Americans start reading GNI.  They will then hear all about racist Indo Guyanese on Melissa Perry's show on MSNBC.  Seriously one has to go to white supremacy sites to see what is written here on GNI.

AMAZING!

I wonder if a black American read comments made frequently about blacks, now most recently by seignet, but at other times by virtually every single PPP supporter, and also by AFC supporters like Jalil, what impression would they be left with?

I suggest that those who spend all day calling me a racist look at that!  We had a poster screaming about "black monkey".  Now one wailing that Guyana shouldn't be represented by "stupid black people".

Its just amazing that this blatant bigotry is perpetuated, and the only reaction to it comes when redux, itaname and I comment on it.  In fact I suspect Itaname began to post for the same reasons that I did.  He tired of seeing the extreme anti black bigotry which was unchallenged by this site.

Carib,some of these fellas,got ruined by the PNC under

Burnham or have not had much of a mix with African folks

,name calling to address an ethnicity is poor in taste.

Many blacks were ruined by the PPP, but I know for a fact that any one posting "Collie Daag" and "collie snake" wouldn't be around too long.

Its double standards here, and as a result this site is viewed by some as a hate site.

We are all adults and should refrain from name calling and using

ethnic slurs,i often hate the word black man,coolie man we can

say Afro or African,Indo or Indian,I am happy my children don't

address any ethnicity in derogatory manner.One of our best

friend is St.Lucian at first when we met she said her grandmother

is my kind of people,i told her i am aware there is Indian in

St.Lucia.

It's time Afro Americans found out. The Indo KKK in America and Canada smiling in the face of black politicians and pretending to be their friends and seeking favor because of minority status. High time Afro Americans found out who they really are.

Yes, overall the new government is doing very well on the Venezuela issue.

You will need to position the discussion in a sound analytical framework and not silly narrative qualitative analyses. For example, the idea of statistical discrimination can be used as an analytical framework. Then go back and survey employment patterns in the state agencies and private sector since the 1970s. Also, it would be interesting to survey the ethnic composition of house lot distributions under PPP and ethnic access to NBS/commercial bank loans to make those houses. It would be very interesting to find out how many East Indians worked at the nation's premier institution, BOG, in 1992. You might want to find out if one East Indian economist existed at BOG as at Jan 1, 1992. Same for ethnic composition of ambassadors over party paramountcy, Hotye reforms and elected oligarchy.  I would caution you and CaribJ not to draw a conclusive point of view from a group of ignars (Rama, Cobra, Nehru, Yuji) on this cyber rum shop.

Hear! Hear! But me bai yuji don't drink rum; he just sipping some cool aid in dis cyber rum shop.

Well my boy TK is so intelligent that not one single government sees him fit for for a Minister's position. He can now smoke that with his cyber cigar.

De man mixes white rum and milk in his lota .

This is the problem with folks like you in the PPP. Everyone of you want to be a minister so that you can get onto the gravy train.

How meh sad...meh want wan minista wuk .

TK, I'm sure that kinda wuk was never in your thoughts. And, relatively speaking, for professionals a minister's pay is unappealing. Moses told me last week that some ministers left very lucrative jobs to serve in the Granger administration. You gotta doff your hat to those guys.

Dem bais gun mek up de difference on de leff han side.

Your opinion.

[Yuh know who me borrow da phrase from. ]

Gilly, Perhaps! It's my opinion from my personal experience in Guyana. And to quote Forbes "Put it in your pipe an smoke it".

Who are these minister?  They have to be heroes...maybe we should name them.  

Perhaps, we could do some deduction and elimination. Start by looking at their professions before May 11. Offhand, I think the lawyers who are now ministers were earning more money in legal fees.

And maybe not.  Only successful lawyers make a lot of money.  That's the reason why Nigel Hughes is not there.

The Indo KKK aren't the problem.  They are a symptom.  When the PPP engaged in racism against Africans did you admit to this?  No you spent your time arguing with me, denying that this was the case, so YOU are part of the problem too.

Here is the deal. Caribj has often addressed racism and ethnic exclusion practiced by the Burnham era PNC.

You wish to LIE and pretend that I didn't so that you can justify similar ethnic exclusion and racism practiced by the PPP.

Now if you claimed that the PPP engaged in racial revenge than I would have no problem with that, provided that you accepted tit for tat racial revenge continued on by the APNU/AFC.

But you wish to pretend as if ONLY African dominated regimes engaged in ethnic exclusion and that the Indian dominated regimes were fair, so that Africans have nothing to complain about.  Do so and you make yourself a hypocrite.  Claim that I didn't admit that the PNC was racist towards Indians and you become a LIAR.

And yes the PPP did exclude Africans, and this has become blatantly obvious when we see who is heading up most of this state controlled agencies.

I am on record offering solutions. You need to stop your psychological projections. All I'm saying is we will need to be more rigorous when we claim ethnic discrimination.

VVP if you refuse to engage Indian racism, which is displayed on the board, and yet are complaining about my comments, what I am supposed to believe?

You make my point. Indian racism doesn't bother you.  Complaining about Indian racism does.  Now just think about how it makes you look.

Anothere one who ignores Indian racism and yet is upset because I refuse to let others paint blacks as the sole perpetrators of racism in Guyana when Indians are equally guilty.

Now run along and engage the many Indo racists on this board, if you wish to prove me wrong.  All I see are some Indians who display racism, amd others who do not condemn it, but who have lots to do when I discuss.

Now what does that make you like?

And of course there is that racist piece of drivel written by Cheddi Jagan.  The whole narratives is about the poor exploited Indian peasant and the "highly privileged" and racist African and mixed middle classes.  Painting the history of ethnic relations around the narrative of the "baad black man, good Indian".  Erasing the role that the PPP made in fostering political voting, and pretending that it was only the PPP.

All those who wish to peddle that "baad black man, good Indian" mythology, will get their faces rubbed in mud by me.  They try to be cute by avoiding any discussion of Indian racism and of PPP ethnic exclusion, yet are very vocal when blacks draw attention to these facts.

You don't seem to get it...the outward manifestation of the racism has economic roots. And the expressions are endogenous...they feed on the insecurities of both groups.

I have no qualms with this TK. However, The current forensic audits are met with cries of "ethnic cleansing", so this analysis has to be compiled by an independent, outside body. It may be helpful as a first step toward dialog regarding racism.